2 May
2008
2 May
'08
4:26 p.m.
Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
One of my former direct reports, a wiz kid sys admin in the Bay area all
ready gave me the standard smart a$$ response; (Er, yeah! It's called a
"RE-INSTALL" ...lemme spall it for yah again!! ha ha ha ha) So after I got
up off the floor from gut level laughter.. (NOT!), I continue to believe
that for nooby converts, and maintaining it's customization ability via the
Linux model, would be a very useful tool!!!
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
Thoughts? Oh, please choose smooth edged stones under 16oz in weight!
Russell
2 May
2 May
5:09 p.m.
"Russell Hanaghan" <hanaghan(a)starband.net> writes:
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public
square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
I don't use Windows, so I have no idea how "System Restore" behaves,
but I find incremental backups very useful for fixing my machines when
I accidentally break something.
I use rdiff-backup, which maintains a copy of a directory tree
augmented with an arbitrarily-long history of changes. I run it
nightly on my root filesystem and home directory separately, so if I
mess up a file or directory I can just copy it out of the backup and
that'll be how it looked last night; if I want an older version (for
example, if I don't spot it's broken for a few days), I can use
rdiff-backup's restore mode to retrieve it as it looked at a specified
time in the past. If I want to revert the whole root filesystem I can
just rsync it back, or I can even boot directly off the backup if
necessary.
The downside is that you need the disk space to store the backup in --
but you keep a backup already, right?
--
Adam Sampson <ats(a)offog.org> <http://offog.org/>
5:13 p.m.
On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 13:27 -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote:
Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
I don't know of anything in linux but don't feel bad about that because
system restore doesn't work half of the time which is why I switched to
clonezilla.
Arthur
8 May
8 May
5:59 p.m.
Arthur <arthura(a)cox.net> writes:
I don't know of anything in linux
I just read an article about Los Alamos Computers Company that ship
computers with GNU/Linux installed and I read they got a system
restore feature. Don't know anything about it; just mentioning it:
http://laclinux.com/gnu/Start
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
2 May
2 May
9:52 p.m.
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 01:27:49PM -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote:
Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
One of my former direct reports, a wiz kid sys admin in the Bay area all
ready gave me the standard smart a$$ response; (Er, yeah! It's called a
"RE-INSTALL" ...lemme spall it for yah again!! ha ha ha ha) So after I got
up off the floor from gut level laughter.. (NOT!), I continue to believe
that for nooby converts, and maintaining it's customization ability via the
Linux model, would be a very useful tool!!!
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
I do the following occasionally (not often enough):
1) I tar up the /etc directory
2) I do a "dpkg -l > status-of-installed-programs.log" to keep track of what
software I've installed
3) I tar up the entire /usr/local directory tree into a separate tar file
4) I keep all my important data files in /home/music-projects, and I rsync that up to an
external USB drive periodically for backups. I also keep any code or scripts in CVS and
rsync that one up too periodically.
A "system restore" is basically a reinstall from a distro CD. Then I use the
status-of-installed-programs.log file to grep out a list of installed packages
("ii" status), awk to get the name of the packages, and then "apt-get
install" them. Then I either gradually pick through the backed-up files in /etc and
copy them over, or just wholesale replace the directory, depending on how much of a hurry
I'm in. The data of course I've had rsync'ed onto a separate drive, so I just
copy that one over.
This is a long process, and I've been getting sufficiently paranoid lately to have
obtained an extra 2.5" PATA drivein an external USB enclosure. I'm going to
format it and copy over my entire drive so that I have a "hot spare". If my
drive dies, I can just (hopefully) replace it with the new one and off I go.
-ken
10:17 p.m.
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 01:27:49PM -0700, Russell
Hanaghan wrote:
I gave up on dyne:bolic and pure:dyne because of out of date software,
but they are amazingly simple to back up.
You have a seperate disk image (a .dyne file) for each group of
applications, that get mounted in package specific directories under
/opt, so you end up with a path including entries like
"/opt/csound/bin:/opt/supercollider/bin:/opt/emacs/bin:/opt/firefox3/bin"
etc.
So if you need to upgrade a program, all of its dependancies
(libraries, helper apps, etc) are part of the same disk image.
Modifiable files are all in a disk image called dyne.nst. This is all
of your modifications, wheter you modify a file in /etc/ or your home
directory or /usr/bin or whatever, anything that is not identical to
the read only disk image you boot from is stored in dyne.nst and
merged through the magic of unionfs. If you run the "nest" application
which you initially ran to do your install, it copies all changes from
the read-only image to a new nest. Even if you already have a nest. In
other words it backs up all of your configuration and data, and
switching to the backup version is literally as easy as swapping the
backup file for the original.
Why I don't use dyne anymore: infrequent upstream updates, filling up
the nest file causes weird bugs, mounting /tmp as ramfs with only 64
megs of room (it could be my system was misconfigured, but it never
asked me whether /tmp should be ramfs and it never asked me how big it
should be) - lots of applications break when /tmp fills up. If it had
some better ways to deal with all the little virtual disks it uses
filling up, or if every linux app would learn to check if they are
filling up the file system they are using, and at the very least allow
a runtime configuration of temp file locations, dyne would be great (I
just recently figured out how to drop to single user and unmount /tmp
from ramfs and remount it on a reasonable sized partition, but found
no way to preserve this change across reboots).
I am using ubuntu now, but I do miss the realtime performance and
extreme ease of backup that dyne provided.
Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
One of my former direct reports, a wiz kid sys admin in the Bay area all
ready gave me the standard smart a$$ response; (Er, yeah! It's called a
"RE-INSTALL" ...lemme spall it for yah again!! ha ha ha ha) So after I got
up off the floor from gut level laughter.. (NOT!), I continue to believe
that for nooby converts, and maintaining it's customization ability via the
Linux model, would be a very useful tool!!!
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
I do the following occasionally (not often enough):
1) I tar up the /etc directory
2) I do a "dpkg -l > status-of-installed-programs.log" to keep track
of what software I've installed
3) I tar up the entire /usr/local directory tree into a separate tar file
4) I keep all my important data files in /home/music-projects, and I rsync that
up to an external USB drive periodically for backups. I also keep any code or scripts in
CVS and rsync that one up too periodically.
A "system restore" is basically a reinstall from a distro CD. Then I use the
status-of-installed-programs.log file to grep out a list of installed packages
("ii" status), awk to get the name of the packages, and then "apt-get
install" them. Then I either gradually pick through the backed-up files in /etc and
copy them over, or just wholesale replace the directory, depending on how much of a hurry
I'm in. The data of course I've had rsync'ed onto a separate drive, so I just
copy that one over.
This is a long process, and I've been getting sufficiently paranoid lately to have
obtained an extra 2.5" PATA drivein an external USB enclosure. I'm going to
format it and copy over my entire drive so that I have a "hot spare". If my
drive dies, I can just (hopefully) replace it with the new one and off I go.
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3 May
3 May
5:34 a.m.
I can see es planing this to a noob! lol
Here's the objective; To make a simple way for a new fledgling to put his /
her system back to how it was, say...yesterday! Before they downloaded a
bunch of updates and broke stuff by bad config changes and what not!
On the particular distro I'm using, it comes as a live cd and it's really a
dead simple task. So easy, even I can't screw it up after 3 or 4 attempts!
:) It has a ~remaster-me~ script as a menu item in KDE. So long as you dont
grow your system beyond the size "squashable" by squashfs (about 4GB down to
750MB IIRC) AND, you remember, AND actually act on that memory to make a new
bootable snapshot of that system, your in fine shape. Even then, you can
make a Live DVD if you have the hardware to do so. It doesnt get too much
simpler than this and yet, there are pitfalls. If your /tmp directory or
swap partition are too small, it falls over. If you partitioned separately
and placed /home on another partition, it wont work at all.
A suggestion made to me from a collegue was to look at a system of
subversion; where any config changes cause the changed files to be copied to
a local repository of sorts and a tracking system that can have
"checkpoints" created so that you could theoretically step back in time to
any point of your changes without wiping and re-installing your entire
system. It's odd with Linux...that the things each user considers difficult,
is directly related to their depth of knowledge. I suppose most things are
like that really but I do know this...when trying to attract fresh blood in
the audio world, it's a daunting thought to try and make them understand
"Oh, you will have to completely re-install 2 or 3 times before you get the
hang of it." :)
Curious what everyone thinks about the subversion concept. It makes some
sense to me, but then I'm an idiot! :)
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Restivo" <ken(a)restivo.org>
To: "Russell Hanaghan" <hanaghan(a)starband.net>
Cc: <linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [LAU] System Restore...
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 01:27:49PM -0700, Russell
Hanaghan wrote:
Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
One of my former direct reports, a wiz kid sys admin in the Bay area all
ready gave me the standard smart a$$ response; (Er, yeah! It's called a
"RE-INSTALL" ...lemme spall it for yah again!! ha ha ha ha) So after I
got
up off the floor from gut level laughter.. (NOT!), I continue to believe
that for nooby converts, and maintaining it's customization ability via
the
Linux model, would be a very useful tool!!!
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro that
will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I
figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and
I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
I do the following occasionally (not often enough):
1) I tar up the /etc directory
2) I do a "dpkg -l > status-of-installed-programs.log" to keep track of
what software I've installed
3) I tar up the entire /usr/local directory tree into a separate tar file
4) I keep all my important data files in /home/music-projects, and I rsync
that up to an external USB drive periodically for backups. I also keep any
code or scripts in CVS and rsync that one up too periodically.
A "system restore" is basically a reinstall from a distro CD. Then I use
the status-of-installed-programs.log file to grep out a list of installed
packages ("ii" status), awk to get the name of the packages, and then
"apt-get install" them. Then I either gradually pick through the backed-up
files in /etc and copy them over, or just wholesale replace the directory,
depending on how much of a hurry I'm in. The data of course I've had
rsync'ed onto a separate drive, so I just copy that one over.
This is a long process, and I've been getting sufficiently paranoid lately
to have obtained an extra 2.5" PATA drivein an external USB enclosure. I'm
going to format it and copy over my entire drive so that I have a "hot
spare". If my drive dies, I can just (hopefully) replace it with the new
one and off I go.
-ken 
5:42 a.m.
On Sat May 03, 2008 at 02:36:52AM -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote:
I can see es planing this to a noob! lol
Here's the objective; To make a simple way for a new fledgling to put his /
her system back to how it was, say...yesterday! Before they downloaded a
bunch of updates and broke stuff by bad config changes and what not!
On the particular distro I'm using, it comes as a live cd and it's really a
dead simple task. So easy, even I can't screw it up after 3 or 4 attempts!
:) It has a ~remaster-me~ script as a menu item in KDE. So long as you dont
grow your system beyond the size "squashable" by squashfs (about 4GB down to
750MB IIRC) AND, you remember, AND actually act on that memory to make a new
bootable snapshot of that system, your in fine shape. Even then, you can
make a Live DVD if you have the hardware to do so. It doesnt get too much
simpler than this and yet, there are pitfalls. If your /tmp directory or
swap partition are too small, it falls over. If you partitioned separately
and placed /home on another partition, it wont work at all.
A suggestion made to me from a collegue was to look at a system of
subversion; where any config changes cause the changed files to be copied to
a local repository of sorts and a tracking system that can have
"checkpoints" created so that you could theoretically step back in time to
any point of your changes without wiping and re-installing your entire
btrfs supports this. at a FS level. check it out
system. It's odd with Linux...that the things each
user considers difficult,
is directly related to their depth of knowledge. I suppose most things are
like that really but I do know this...when trying to attract fresh blood in
the audio world, it's a daunting thought to try and make them understand
"Oh, you will have to completely re-install 2 or 3 times before you get the
hang of it." :)
Curious what everyone thinks about the subversion concept. It makes some
sense to me, but then I'm an idiot! :)
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Restivo" <ken(a)restivo.org>
To: "Russell Hanaghan" <hanaghan(a)starband.net>
Cc: <linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [LAU] System Restore...
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 01:27:49PM -0700, Russell
Hanaghan wrote:
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user Hiya!
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
One of my former direct reports, a wiz kid sys admin in the Bay area all
ready gave me the standard smart a$$ response; (Er, yeah! It's called a
"RE-INSTALL" ...lemme spall it for yah again!! ha ha ha ha) So after I
got
up off the floor from gut level laughter.. (NOT!), I continue to believe
that for nooby converts, and maintaining it's customization ability via
the
Linux model, would be a very useful tool!!!
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro that
will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I
figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and
I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
I do the following occasionally (not often enough):
1) I tar up the /etc directory
2) I do a "dpkg -l > status-of-installed-programs.log" to keep track of
what software I've installed
3) I tar up the entire /usr/local directory tree into a separate tar file
4) I keep all my important data files in /home/music-projects, and I rsync
that up to an external USB drive periodically for backups. I also keep any
code or scripts in CVS and rsync that one up too periodically.
A "system restore" is basically a reinstall from a distro CD. Then I use
the status-of-installed-programs.log file to grep out a list of installed
packages ("ii" status), awk to get the name of the packages, and then
"apt-get install" them. Then I either gradually pick through the backed-up
files in /etc and copy them over, or just wholesale replace the directory,
depending on how much of a hurry I'm in. The data of course I've had
rsync'ed onto a separate drive, so I just copy that one over.
This is a long process, and I've been getting sufficiently paranoid lately
to have obtained an extra 2.5" PATA drivein an external USB enclosure. I'm
going to format it and copy over my entire drive so that I have a "hot
spare". If my drive dies, I can just (hopefully) replace it with the new
one and off I go.
-ken 
8:15 a.m.
On Sat, 3 May 2008, cdr wrote:
> Curious what everyone thinks about the subversion
concept. It makes some
> sense to me, but then I'm an idiot! :)
>
There actually is a Linux distribution that has repositories based on
this concept: Foresight Linux, with the Conary package manager, uses a
system of change management not unlike cvs or subversion, where every
changeset is 'committed', and can be 'rolled back' independently.
I've stumbled upon it within the AsteriskNOW distribution, but have
failed to wrap my brain around it yet...
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
6:04 p.m.
The windows system restore is a joke. All it does is just check dll files
and the like, and has some kind of check for the rest of the files.
Thing is, it doesn't care SHIT bout your homedir/programs in non-standard
locations, or the registry. I screwed up once with firefox, used it, and it
turns out it removed some files it had installed (??) but left others, and
then it wouldn't even uninstall [Actually, it was something else, i just
took firefox as an example].
I'd think it's kind of hard to create one unified backup solution, everyone
wants something different. Just look at how clumsy the audio for linux is
(disregarding jack as >the< pro-audio interface), there's tons of different
audio daemons.
--
//Cincerly SteelSide
//Mvh Daniel
2:20 a.m.
Am Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 schrieb Russell Hanaghan:
So while Dave warmed up the crowd on the M$ related
questions...
...and at the risk of being stoned in the Linux public square, is there
*any* form of the System Restore function that follws the model of the
~other~ OS?
I learned (at least) two things during my almost 10 years of linux usage and
administration:
a) If you are starting with some new distribution it takes two or three
installs to get it right and get to know all the edges.
b) After that maintenance is pretty straightforward and even updates don't
clutter the system. Using a good distribution that is...
And from my experience the only thing really keeping a windows-system clean is
a reinstall and not using the system for years.
Have fun,
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
10 p.m.
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Russell Hanaghan <hanaghan(a)starband.net> wrote:
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom
audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
Thoughts? Oh, please choose smooth edged stones under 16oz in weight!
Netapp implemented this perfectly with the snapshots feature of their
WAFL filesystem. In every directory there is a .snapshots
subdirectory containing monthly, weekly, and hourly snapshots of the
parent directory. If you hose your system recovery is as simple as
"cp -pr .snapshots/hourly.1/* .".
Unfortunately it's patented so Linux can't do the same...
Lee
11:40 p.m.
On Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:00:04PM -0400, Lee Revell wrote:
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Russell Hanaghan
<hanaghan(a)starband.net> wrote:
btrfs is GPL
i havent seen them cower in fear of such a ridiculous 'patent'
I have spent many hours recently setting up a
custom audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
Thoughts? Oh, please choose smooth edged stones under 16oz in weight!
Netapp implemented this perfectly with the snapshots feature of their
WAFL filesystem. In every directory there is a .snapshots
subdirectory containing monthly, weekly, and hourly snapshots of the
parent directory. If you hose your system recovery is as simple as
"cp -pr .snapshots/hourly.1/* .".
Unfortunately it's patented so Linux can't do the same...
Lee
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
5 May
5 May
12:28 a.m.
On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 11:40:00PM -0400, cdr wrote:
On Sat May 03, 2008 at 10:00:04PM -0400, Lee Revell
wrote:
I am going to take out a patent on chewing food.
-ken
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Russell Hanaghan
<hanaghan(a)starband.net> wrote:
btrfs is GPL
i havent seen them cower in fear of such a ridiculous 'patent' I have spent many hours recently setting up a
custom audio distro that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't need
cliche lessons! :)
Thoughts? Oh, please choose smooth edged stones under 16oz in weight!
Netapp implemented this perfectly with the snapshots feature of their
WAFL filesystem. In every directory there is a .snapshots
subdirectory containing monthly, weekly, and hourly snapshots of the
parent directory. If you hose your system recovery is as simple as
"cp -pr .snapshots/hourly.1/* .".
Unfortunately it's patented so Linux can't do the same...
4 May
4 May
1:37 a.m.
You know, I didnt even give the Nettapp system a thought and you raise
an interesting point! While I have supported and built the networks
that Netapp machines reside in, I have not performed any admin on
them... But I know some talent who has!! I also have some SE contacts
at Intervision who can steer me away from the patent danger zone!
I sure as hell don't want my audio box spamming me day and night and
ordering up new hard drives for itself on a whim!! :)
R
Sent from iPhone
On May 3, 2008, at 7:00 PM, "Lee Revell" <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Russell Hanaghan
<hanaghan(a)starband.net
wrote:
I have spent many hours recently setting up a custom audio distro
that will
be remastered and available as a live CD. I'm no Linux sys
admin...I figure
stuff out any way I can, take longer than most to get it just how I
like
it....and then I say..hmm, just one more thing I'd like to
change....and I
bjork the window manager or some such thing. To re-install at that
point
kills MANY hours of fruitfull work and I'm old enough that I don't
need
cliche lessons! :)
Thoughts? Oh, please choose smooth edged stones under 16oz in
weight!
Netapp implemented this perfectly with the snapshots feature of their
WAFL filesystem. In every directory there is a .snapshots
subdirectory containing monthly, weekly, and hourly snapshots of the
parent directory. If you hose your system recovery is as simple as
"cp -pr .snapshots/hourly.1/* .".
Unfortunately it's patented so Linux can't do the same...
Lee
5863
days inactive
5869
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
14 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Adam Sampson -
Arnold Krille -
Arthur -
cdr -
Esben Stien -
Justin Smith -
Ken Restivo -
Lee Revell -
Rick Green -
Russell Hanaghan -
Steel Side