+1 for the bfc2k. It is. But in this case its not a big point, because there are no audio quality issues or something like that. the midi signal has the same quality, no matter where you save money. more important is: its class compliant usb, its fully programmable, pretty robust (i dont have a case, just put it in a bag to move it) and you can open it and adjust the fader resistance ;) the size may be a down side, but i can totally recommend it.

You can program all the stuff without any pc, just using the bcf2k. so its os independent.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 01:02:17 +0100 (CET) "Jeanette C." <julien(a)mail.uni-paderborn.de> wrote: I actually wrote part of the Ardour manual in previous revisions in which I go into loading a custom configuration and such. These dyas I use my BCF2k in mackie mode, and it works great. I love the motorized faders and the tactile feeling when dialing in a mix. I've had mine for over a decade, and it still works perfectly. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 23:08:47 +0100, Georg Krause wrote: In a reasonable way? I don't know this device, but my experiences with handling Behringer devices is as already described. Push button D, then A + C, wait until LED 3 slowly flashes and after that push button B, before you could change a value and if you can't remember such steps, read the manual each time you want to change a value. ;)

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 22:29:53 +0100 Georg Krause <mail(a)georg-krause.net> wrote: This actually looks very attractive indeed. I found an old Sound On Sound review of it and apparently you can get a Java application for programming it. This is platform agnostic. I think I'd be taking rather a risk trying to order one before Christmas now, but I'll certainly be giving it serious consideration in January. Thanks for such a quick response guys. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

The behringer also has ;) Am So. Dez. 11 23:27:41 2016 GMT+0100 schrieb till(a)www.n0ne.de: > Anyone ever tried stuff from this Icon company? > http://iconproaudio.com/product/platform-m/ > > its only slightly more expensive than the behringer BUT has motor faders... > > December 11 2016 11:19 PM, "Will Godfrey" <willgodfrey(a)musically.me.uk> wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Dec 2016 22:29:53 +0100 > > Georg Krause <mail(a)georg-krause.net> wrote: > > > >> +1 for the bfc2k. > >> > >>> but it's a Behringer... > >> > >> It is. But in this case its not a big point, because there are no audio > >> quality issues or something like that. the midi signal has the same > >> quality, no matter where you save money. more important is: its class > >> compliant usb, its fully programmable, pretty robust (i dont have a > >> case, just put it in a bag to move it) and you can open it and adjust > >> the fader resistance ;) > >> > >> the size may be a down side, but i can totally recommend it. > > > > This actually looks very attractive indeed. I found an old Sound On Sound > > review of it and apparently you can get a Java application for programming it. > > This is platform agnostic. > > > > I think I'd be taking rather a risk trying to order one before Christmas now, > > but I'll certainly be giving it serious consideration in January. > > > > Thanks for such a quick response guys. > > > > -- > > Will J Godfrey > > http://www.musically.me.uk > > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux-audio-user mailing list > > Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >

Also the Launch Control series from Novation is quite interesting. I own an XL (which has 24 knobs, 8 faders and 16+8 buttons); while it is not programmable from Linux (yet), I started a project some months ago, which aims to use a program as a sort of "proxy": this means that you connect the Launch Control to my program, and then connect it to your software(s), instruments and so on, also allowing some advanced behavior over MIDI (multiple toggle states, trigger more than one button at a time...) and obviously led programming. It might not seem very easy in the beginning, but once you've configured your templates, it's very useful, expecially in live. If you are interested, I wrote a small post here (with some screenshots and explaination on how it works): http://jidesk.net/post/nolae-a-novation-launchcontrol-editor Cheers 2016-12-11 23:56 GMT+01:00 <till(a)www.n0ne.de>de>: -- È difficile avere una convinzione precisa quando si parla delle ragioni del cuore. - "Sostiene Pereira", Antonio Tabucchi http://www.jidesk.net

That's not true, the interpretation of MIDI signals could suffer from bad designed MIDI interfaces much, e.g. in regards to the used opto-coupler and the fine tuning, as well as they could cause ground loops, but indeed, all Behringer devices I ever used, had MIDI interfaces that worked without issues.

My nice new BFC2000 was delivered yesterday, and I'm very pleased with it. It has an astonishing range of configuration possibilites, and unlike many units is reasonably quick and easy to program from the unit itself. You can set up preset 'scenes' which will not only set the functions of all the controllers, but also will set the physical positions of those 8 sliders. The faders can be ordinary CCs, specifically pitch bend or any NRPN. The NRPNs can be full 14 bit data or 7 bit and can be absolute or incremental. There is a standard foot switch socket and a foot pedal (pot) socket. It can be set up for various combinations of hardware and/or USB MIDI. I can't confirm the resolution of either the pitch bend or NRPN modes, but it is greater than the accuracy of the sliders themselves - when used as an NRPN and steadily moving the slider up, a fractional movement can actually send a slightly lower value - which suggests it's reading discontinuites in the carbon track. Overall Will's a happy bunny :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2017, Will Godfrey wrote: Good to know. I knew the encoders could be incremental, but faders is a new one on me. That could very well be why Mackie limited their faders to 10 bits (last 4 bits zeroed). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017 02:41:50 -0500 termtech &lt;termtech(a)rogers.com&gt; wrote: It seems to play safe and always send Nhigh, Nlow, Dhigh, Dlow although I haven't investigated all the settings. I'm a bit lazy. Once I've got what I want I tend to lose interest and stop investigating. Nope, I was logging the values. I'm talking about extremely small values here. Dlow 33 then 27 then 33 again comes to mind. Seeing odd number values caught my attention. cout << "Control " << int(ctrl) << " Value " << int(val) << endl; :¬) It's posible I was actually seeing mechanical backlash as I was making *very* slow, tiny movements. Bear in mind that full range is 100mm. 100 / 16383 * (33-27) = 0.037mm Now if you'll excuse me, my next task is to work out how to MIDI-learn NRPNs (already got 14 bit pitch bend done) :p -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2017, termtech wrote: In the mackie case and bcf2k in mackie/LC mode, faders are sent as pitch. So the MSB and LSB are included in one event and both are sent every time. In NRPN case... things are different. The receiver should respond to any one of the four events based on the last received values for the the other three. It is quite common though in the case of receiving the MSB to check the following event to see if LSB has changed as well. The four events should always be sent in order. Events can be left off starting at the first event, but once one of the events is sent, all following events are sent.... sort of. The last event is optional (at least some manufactures treat it so - like Allen & Heath) so a receiver has to check if the last event is there or not using a short timeout (time to transmit one byte or event depending on the parser). Best practice for transmitting is considered to be sending all four events every time. This accounts (mostly) for such things as merged MIDI signals. In theory, a MIDI merger should consider the four nrpn events as one event and should create a new four part event even if only one is received and then send the whole event without interleaving. However, I suspect most just interleave by the standard midi event (1, 2 or 3 bytes). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

Thanks for the replies. Top-notch insight as always. I neglected mechanical tolerance. One of the reasons I'm so interested is that the last time I checked, ALSA seq did not handle 7-bit (N)RPN events. The ALSA 'encoder' code seemed to indicate it did not handle them. It did not handle them from my mid-80's keyboard. That's one reason why I have been believing that I must make my own encoder in MusE. (I would also have complete control, over low-byte timeouts, byte ordering, etc.) Have things changed, or was there something I overlooked? T.

On 12/11/2016 10:00 PM, Robert Edge wrote: +1 but maybe the BCR2000 is more interesting for manipulating MIDI. I own both and so far they keep up well. http://mountainutilities.eu/bcmanager works well with Wine. Jeremy

On Sun, 11 Dec 2016, termtech wrote: The controlers previously discussed (bcf2k and other MCP controllers) probably come closest. The faders are 1024 (10bit) via pitch controls. The smallest 4 bits are ignored. Which brings about the whole hi rez MIDI control question. Even with 7 bit CCs it is quite easy to make a change fast enough to skip many intermediate values. While it is still possible to make a slow enough move to use all 10 bit on the mcp faders, they are getting close to the limit of what the physical resistor/motor combination can handle... and the receiving software still has to ramp from value to value (same with a GUI slider) anyway. Otherwise there will be zipper noise. So the question quickly becomes how many bits are noticable with proper ramping. The only controller specs I have looked at with true high res in the spec are some of the Yamaha mixer controllers which have some controls with as high as 28 bits... if they are actually continuous or just a way of sending bigger numbers I am not sure (I don't have one to play with) You must have smoothing for anything MIDI. It is not woth sending 5 midi values where the last one comes after 3 midi events after you want to send the the 6th event. MIDI can only send about 1000 events per sec (10bits a byte at 31k, 3bytes per event... so 4 events per nrpn would cut that in 4. nrpns can be less if there is only one control being moved at a time. as soon as more than one move at a time, all 4 bytes need to be sent. This is why MCP uses pitch bends for hi rez control... but that limits you to 16 high rez controllers per midi port. So any application that accepts MIDI CC control does smoothing. The controller makers tend not to advertize the granularity of their controls :) because they are selling them to PNP people who use a MAC because (insert name of star here) does. All they are concerned about is that they can plug it in and it works. Most of the controllers I can think of that use hi rez info very much are OSC controllers and touch sensitive. For testing purposes a midi to midi converter middleware may take any midi controller and allow two CCs to do high/low byte work. 96 position encoders are quite common, more so than 128 position encoders. Both are cheap ($5 each or less). A 14 bit encoder is $40-$60 complete... the chip inside being about $11 and the casing/bearing/etc making up the rest. The seven bit encoder for $3 requires much more computer attention and pin out. And cpu speed matters (remember this is a controller, no one wants to spend an extra $1k for a super computer to run it... they are R-PI like deals) So there is not likely to be such controllers. It is possible that you could create a map for a touch based controller (think android) that would do what you want... but remeber your res in that case is based on the resolution of the touch screen itself, even a controller boasting .001 kinds of movements is going to send a new value every touch pixel movement. So you want a large touch screen :) This has been much of my research in the past year and a half. It is not just what the resolution of the controller is, but also how fast you can detect change and send it... and how fast the receiver can deal with it. I am quickly coming to the conclusion that even 8 or 9 bits is enough. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net

Be careful with USB/Midi interfaces, some of them have issues, expecially when dealing with sysex messages. I had a cheap chinese usb/midi adapter and I had troubles sending and receiving events for an Alesis Micron, then I had to use another device to be able to use it as I needed. 2016-12-12 14:58 GMT+01:00 Neil C Smith &lt;neilcsmith.net(a)googlemail.com&gt;om>: -- È difficile avere una convinzione precisa quando si parla delle ragioni del cuore. - "Sostiene Pereira", Antonio Tabucchi http://www.jidesk.net