USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

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Niklas Reppel

19 Dec 2017 19 Dec '17

11:11 p.m.

Hi, i'm currently looking for interfaces that have more than 16 digital outputs for higher-order ambisonics applications. One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, that is laptops that don't have expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't built any more. I've stumbled over a LAU post from 2016 where options were discussed. There's the DiGiCo UB Madi that is reported to work, but the price is ridiculous, and also it seems rare/hard to be obtained or even out of production. The RME Madiface USB aren't working at all (tried one of them myself). So, the PCIe and ExpressCard versions of the RME MADI interfaces have been reported working, but has anybody ever tried to use them with USB-to-PCIe or USB-to-ExpressCard adapters? Otherwise, ase the market brought forth new options ? Any advice is appreciated ! Best, Niklas -- Niklas Reppel www.parkellipsen.de

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David W. Jones

19 Dec 19 Dec

11:27 p.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

On December 19, 2017 12:03:27 PM HST, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote:

...

Niklas Reppel

11:33 p.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

Hi, thanks for the reply ! I do not quite understand, though ... a device with an USB-C port can use a Firewire-to-USB adapter ?? Also, would that imply driver support ? Best, Niklas On 19.12.2017 23:27, David W. Jones wrote:

...

On December 19, 2017 12:03:27 PM HST, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote:

I understand that modern laptops with USB-C/3.1 ports can use Apple's Firewire<>USB adaptor to connect to external FW devices. There was mention of that on the list a couple of months ago as working with Linux. Other cheaper FW<>USB apparently don't work. -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

-- Niklas Reppel www.parkellipsen.de

Bill Gribble

11:52 p.m.

It works, I have done it. Get the Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter, and a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 (usb-c) adapter. FireWire devices show up as normal (once you turn on hot plug for Thunderbolt). I use this to connect an HP x360 laptop to a Mackie FireWire mixer. Thanks, Bill Gribble

...

On Dec 19, 2017, at 17:25, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote: Hi, thanks for the reply ! I do not quite understand, though ... a device with an USB-C port can use a Firewire-to-USB adapter ?? Also, would that imply driver support ? Best, Niklas

On 19.12.2017 23:27, David W. Jones wrote:

On December 19, 2017 12:03:27 PM HST, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote: Hi, i'm currently looking for interfaces that have more than 16 digital outputs for higher-order ambisonics applications. One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, that is laptops that don't have expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't built any more. I've stumbled over a LAU post from 2016 where options were discussed. There's the DiGiCo UB Madi that is reported to work, but the price is ridiculous, and also it seems rare/hard to be obtained or even out of production. The RME Madiface USB aren't working at all (tried one of them myself). So, the PCIe and ExpressCard versions of the RME MADI interfaces have been reported working, but has anybody ever tried to use them with USB-to-PCIe or USB-to-ExpressCard adapters? Otherwise, ase the market brought forth new options ? Any advice is appreciated ! Best, Niklas

-- Niklas Reppel www.parkellipsen.de _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

David W. Jones

20 Dec 20 Dec

12:04 a.m.

I understand that USB-C brings out the PCI-e bus connection. So the device appears on the PCI-e bus, I guess? Only the Apple one packs the intelligence to translate between FW and USB. The other FW<>USB adaptors just make electrical connections and don't work. The list archives have an email thread about this working. I don't know the details. I have a 12-channel FW device but no laptop with USB-C to try to connect it to. So don't rely on my recollections! I have the email at home and can't get to it right now. On December 19, 2017 12:25:42 PM HST, Niklas Reppel <nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote:

...

On December 19, 2017 12:03:27 PM HST, Niklas Reppel

<nik(a)parkellipsen.de> wrote:

> Hi, > > i'm currently looking for interfaces that have more than 16 digital > outputs for higher-order ambisonics > applications. > > One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, > that > is laptops that don't have > expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't > built > any more. > > I've stumbled over a LAU post from 2016 where options were

discussed.

> > There's the DiGiCo UB Madi that is reported to work, but the price

> ridiculous, and also it seems > rare/hard to be obtained or even out of production. > > The RME Madiface USB aren't working at all (tried one of them

myself).

> > So, the PCIe and ExpressCard versions of the RME MADI interfaces

have

been reported working, but has anybody ever tried to use them with USB-to-PCIe or USB-to-ExpressCard adapters? Otherwise, ase the market brought forth new options ? Any advice is appreciated ! Best, Niklas

I understand that modern laptops with USB-C/3.1 ports can use

Apple's Firewire<>USB adaptor to connect to external FW devices. There was mention of that on the list a couple of months ago as working with Linux.

Other cheaper FW<>USB apparently don't work. -- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user

-- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail.

David Kastrup

19 Dec 19 Dec

11:28 p.m.

Niklas Reppel <nik-dfXCYt+O3ny75nlTXBrUiQ(a)public.gmane.org> writes:

...

That would seem hopeless since they are very unlikely to use the USB port on an ExpressCard. But a Thunderbolt to ExpressCard adapter might have a chance of working. -- David Kastrup

Chris Caudle

11:53 p.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

On Tue, December 19, 2017 4:03 pm, Niklas Reppel wrote:

...

i'm currently looking for interfaces that have more than 16 digital outputs for higher-order ambisonics applications.

I thought that the MOTU AVB interfaces mentioned here a few times could be chained on the Ethernet side such that all the channels showed up on the USB3 interface. I may have misunderstood the capabilities, but might be worth checking. -- Chris Caudle

David Runge

20 Dec 20 Dec

1:46 a.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

On 2017-12-19 23:03:27 (+0100), Niklas Reppel wrote:

...

One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, that is laptops that don't have expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't built any more.

Not built, but still sold refurbished [1] [2]. Just bought a Lenovo Thinkpad X230, that still has ExpressCard54. Some laptops from the W series offer ExpressCard34. Maybe that can be an option, too. Best, David [1] http://www.lapstore.de/ [2] http://www.vb-computers.de/ -- https://sleepmap.de

Niklas Reppel

9:35 p.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

Actually, that'd be my preferred solution if it was only for personal use ... But as it is, i'm thinking up a system where people can just plug in their computers (ideally independent of manufacturer and OS) ... admittedly not an easy task ... Saludos, Niklas On 20.12.2017 01:46, David Runge wrote:

...

On 2017-12-19 23:03:27 (+0100), Niklas Reppel wrote:

One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, that is laptops that don't have expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't built any more.

-- Niklas Reppel www.parkellipsen.de

david

21 Dec 21 Dec

6:57 a.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

That sounds pretty ambitious! An ambisonic sound setup that anyone can use simply by plugging the audio interface into their computer? For Linux, Mac OS X and Windows? What's the intent? I think Linux and Mac would have a chance since they seem to work with class-compliant devices without requiring a special driver. Windows users will probably have to install a driver for the audio interface, even if it's set in class compliant mode, since Windows tends to want to grab proprietary vendor-specific drivers, yes? In all cases, I'd think the user would have to configure their audio setup for the ambisonic setup ... It's been a long while since I tried my simple class-compliant USB interface with Windows. Years back, my church band's sound tech used to record us using a 12-channel Firewire interface and Windows XP. When his laptop died and was replaced with a Windows 7 laptop, suddenly it wouldn't work with the interface. Maybe you could set up a single Linux computer to connect to the audio interface, and have people connect to the interface via the computer over a network (either wired or wireless)? Then they'd have to configure their audio to go over the network connection, and possibly still end up requiring a driver for the audio interface. Good luck, keep the list posted, it sounds like something fun! On 12/20/2017 10:28 AM, Niklas Reppel wrote:

...

On 2017-12-19 23:03:27 (+0100), Niklas Reppel wrote:

One of my requirements would be that they work with recent laptops, that is laptops that don't have expresscard or firewire interfaces, as those unfortunately aren't built any more.

-- David W. Jones gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com

anders.vinjar＠bek.no

9:55 a.m.

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to gmane.linux.audio.users as well. N> But as it is, i'm thinking up a system where people can just plug N> in their computers (ideally independent of manufacturer and OS) N> ... admittedly not an easy task ... Behringer X32 provides 32 i/o through a usb cable right away on linux. While considering the 'people just plug in' part you might want to check solutions resembling those used at CCRMA: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~nando/publications/openmixer_lac2010.pdf -anders

David Runge

22 Dec 22 Dec

5:28 p.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

On 2017-12-21 09:55:43 (+0100), anders.vinjar(a)bek.no wrote:

...

Behringer X32 provides 32 i/o through a usb cable right away on linux.

That, and the Midas equivalent indeed work like a charm on Linux, macOS (and most likely newer Windowses as well). Good idea! :) -- https://sleepmap.de

Lorenzo Sutton

20 Dec 20 Dec

9:34 a.m.

New subject: USB audio interfaces with more than 16 digital output channels ?

Hi, On 19/12/17 23:03, Niklas Reppel wrote:

...

Not specifically audio-interface related (and maybe obvious), but I guess in your scenario this is also a good read (i.e. consider combining 2+ devices?): http://jackaudio.org/faq/multiple_devices.html Lorenzo.

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participants (9)

anders.vinjar＠bek.no
Bill Gribble
Chris Caudle
david
David Kastrup
David Runge
David W. Jones
Lorenzo Sutton
Niklas Reppel