20 Mar
2008
20 Mar
'08
5:52 a.m.
Hi!
The FREE label AMMD in which I work is going to buy and build a
professionnal studio based on free software and destined to produce free
arts only.
The project is quite advanced, but I'd like to know your mind about the
configuration we think about, and if there are people already using this
kinda material, any feedback would be welcome!
So , here it is:
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
- Should work essentially with Ardour
- Hardware (PC):
. Proc: we were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD), but as we've
seen that quadri-pro are not so expensive anymore, what do you think
about it?
. RAM: 4Gb at least (if quadri-pro, much more)
. Motherboard: we were thinking about using RAID (5 probably) in
order to increase reading speed, but it's only based on an
assumption (intuition?) that we could raise up the perf that way.
Are we right?
We'd like this motherboard not to have audio-embedded.
. Graphics: We just want something easy to install (no proprietary
drivers) that can driver 2 screens in Xinerama mode the easiest way
as possible (my ATI Radeon X850 GTO 16 is not a fair example!). We
don't have any idea about it actually, what about you?
. Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for system, and
day-to-day life, and then think about an external SATA solution
which allows to bring a new drive for every project (there will
probably be something like 3 or 4 albums a year on this studio). Of
course, if we want our assumption upon RAID5 to work, we need to
have two identical eSATA drives for each record session.
- Hardware (Audio):
. PCI RME HDSP9532
. two options for the recorders:
+ 2 RME Multiface II (i.e. 16 tracks) linked with ADAT to HDSP9532
+ 1 Alesis HD24 (i.e. 24 tracks and a hard drive) linked with
ADAT to HDSP9532
don't know what option is the best. The RME ADC and DAC are better
than those of the HD24, but the amount of tracks is some way
interesting, and I don't know in what measure the "poor" DAC/ADC of
HD24 will penalize us (knowing the complete acquisition system).
Another problem is that we plan to record some instruments using
AES/EBU and/or S/PDIF and the Multiface doesn't propose it.
There could also be a need to record MIDI parts (synth, machines,
and so on), and I suppose it's not possible with both this
solutions, is it?
- External Hardware (that is quite off-topic with this list, but, by the
way, if you want to know):
. 4x TL-Audio 5001 preamps
. 1x Neumann TLM 103
. 2x Neumann KM184
. 2x Shure Beta 56
. 2x Shure Beta 52
. 1x Shure Beta 91
. 1x Sennheiser MD421
. 6x Beyerdynamic Opus 88
. 1x EV RE20
. 2x AKG C414 + susp.
. 2x Genelec 8020 APM
. stands, racks, and so on.
OK, so here it is. It represents quite a financial thing, so we don't
want to make it wrong. We're open to every advice, discussion, etc.
Thanks a lot.
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
20 Mar
20 Mar
6:15 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi
Aurelien a écrit :
Hi!
The FREE label AMMD in which I work is going to buy and build a
professionnal studio based on free software and destined to produce free
arts only.
Good to hear.
The project is quite advanced, but I'd like to
know your mind about the
configuration we think about, and if there are people already using this
kinda material, any feedback would be welcome!
So , here it is:
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
I would go for a 64bit system these are future proof plus they are the
only ones that can address large memory sizes.
- Should work essentially with Ardour
- Hardware (PC):
. Proc: we were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD), but as we've
seen that quadri-pro are not so expensive anymore, what do you think
about it?
I'd go for a quadri-pro IF there is no drawback. Needs a little bit of
testing. From what I heard AMD quads (Phenom) are not that good.
. RAM: 4Gb at least (if quadri-pro, much more)
. Motherboard: we were thinking about using RAID (5 probably) in
order to increase reading speed, but it's only based on an
assumption (intuition?) that we could raise up the perf that way.
Are we right?
Be sure to use a dedicated hardware RAID controller and you'll get the
performances.
We'd like this motherboard not to have
audio-embedded.
I'd go for a server grade motherboard like Tyan. The embedded audio can
be disabled but I find these usefull for system sounds, websurfing ...
. Graphics: We just want something easy to install
(no proprietary
drivers) that can driver 2 screens in Xinerama mode the easiest way
as possible (my ATI Radeon X850 GTO 16 is not a fair example!). We
don't have any idea about it actually, what about you?
If you don't need 3D, ATI cards with radeonhd free driver works
extremely well. My 2400Pro is by far more responsive than my GeForce7600
was with the proprietary driver. The whole system is a lot more stable
and RT performance is now rock solid.
. Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for
system, and
day-to-day life, and then think about an external SATA solution
which allows to bring a new drive for every project (there will
probably be something like 3 or 4 albums a year on this studio). Of
course, if we want our assumption upon RAID5 to work, we need to
have two identical eSATA drives for each record session.
Seems good to me. Hotplugging would be a good feature to have
- Hardware (Audio):
. PCI RME HDSP9532
. two options for the recorders:
+ 2 RME Multiface II (i.e. 16 tracks) linked with ADAT to HDSP9532
+ 1 Alesis HD24 (i.e. 24 tracks and a hard drive) linked with
ADAT to HDSP9532
don't know what option is the best. The RME ADC and DAC are better
than those of the HD24, but the amount of tracks is some way
interesting, and I don't know in what measure the "poor" DAC/ADC of
HD24 will penalize us (knowing the complete acquisition system).
Another problem is that we plan to record some instruments using
AES/EBU and/or S/PDIF and the Multiface doesn't propose it.
There could also be a need to record MIDI parts (synth, machines,
and so on), and I suppose it's not possible with both this
solutions, is it?
What about using (3) RME Octamics II and a 9652? This brings a full 24
tracks.
- External Hardware (that is quite off-topic with this
list, but, by the
way, if you want to know):
. 4x TL-Audio 5001 preamps
. 1x Neumann TLM 103
. 2x Neumann KM184
Look at the Oktavas MK-012, they are really cheap but highest quality. I
find them more "musical" than the "chirurgical" 184s.
. 2x Shure Beta 56
. 2x Shure Beta 52
. 1x Shure Beta 91
. 1x Sennheiser MD421
. 6x Beyerdynamic Opus 88
. 1x EV RE20
. 2x AKG C414 + susp.
. 2x Genelec 8020 APM
I'm a big fan of Dynaudio Acoustics monitors, check them out!
. stands, racks, and so on.
OK, so here it is. It represents quite a financial thing, so we don't
want to make it wrong. We're open to every advice, discussion, etc.
Thanks a lot.
Good luck!
- --
Raphaël Doursenaud
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6:44 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Hey!
Which such a name, you're probably French, or can speak French, can't
you? Could be interesting to go on off-list in French, there will be a
barrier less!
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:15:42AM +0100, Raphaël Doursenaud wrote :
That's sure. What about 32bits plugins? I mean, my current PC is a AMD64
with Debian-AMD64, it works well, but the *** ndispluginwrapper solution
isn't very compliant and sometimes a bit.... "chiante".
OK, thanks.
Er, I guess my English or my informatics are too low right here. Could
you explain a bit deeper what you mean?
The studio is a mobile one, and there will be no need to websurf or
whatever, as there are other PCs dedicated to administration tasks next
to it!
Oh, yeah, you're right!
OK, I will. But I'm quite fanatics about KM184, and I begin knowing them
quite fine!
Actually, that's the point we need to argue further in the label. We
just made this choice upon specific characteristics, and some users
minds, but we now need to do a "listening-session" to be sure of us!
We'll check the Dynaudio Acoustics.
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
- System :
Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
I would go for a 64bit system these are future proof plus they are the
only ones that can address large memory sizes. . Proc: we
were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD), but as we've
seen that quadri-pro are not so expensive anymore, what do you think
about it?
I'd go for a quadri-pro IF there is no drawback. Needs a little bit of
testing. From what I heard AMD quads (Phenom) are not that good. . RAM: 4Gb at least (if quadri-pro, much more)
. Motherboard: we were thinking about using RAID (5 probably) in
order to increase reading speed, but it's only based on an
assumption (intuition?) that we could raise up the perf that way.
Are we right?
Be sure to use a dedicated hardware RAID controller and you'll get the
performances. We'd like this motherboard not to have
audio-embedded.
I'd go for a server grade motherboard like Tyan. The embedded audio can
be disabled but I find these usefull for system sounds, websurfing ... If you don't need 3D, ATI cards with radeonhd free
driver works
extremely well. My 2400Pro is by far more responsive than my GeForce7600
was with the proprietary driver. The whole system is a lot more stable
and RT performance is now rock solid.
OK, that's just fine. We don't need 3D (except if some plugin's
frontends need, but it would be quite unuseful!!!)
. Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for
system, and
day-to-day life, and then think about an external SATA solution
which allows to bring a new drive for every project (there will
probably be something like 3 or 4 albums a year on this studio). Of
course, if we want our assumption upon RAID5 to work, we need to
have two identical eSATA drives for each record session.
Seems good to me. Hotplugging would be a good feature to have > . two options for the recorders:
> + 2 RME Multiface II (i.e. 16 tracks) linked with ADAT to HDSP9532
> + 1 Alesis HD24 (i.e. 24 tracks and a hard drive) linked with
> ADAT to HDSP9532
[...]
What about using (3) RME Octamics II and a 9652? This brings a full 24
tracks.
Octamics countains preamps, we're not so keen on them, and we schedule
to buy external preamps. So this might be quite unuseful. Of course, we
could buy 3 Multiface II, but the point is that it's quite more
expensive than a single HD24. The other point is also that HD24 is fully
stand-alone, and in that way, we could do live-recording without moving
the whole stuff, which is a good thing also.
- External Hardware (that is quite off-topic with
this list, but, by the
way, if you want to know):
. 4x TL-Audio 5001 preamps
. 1x Neumann TLM 103
. 2x Neumann KM184
Look at the Oktavas MK-012, they are really cheap but highest quality. I
find them more "musical" than the "chirurgical" 184s. . 2x Genelec
8020 APM
I'm a big fan of Dynaudio Acoustics monitors, check them out! 
9:37 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Am Donnerstag, den 20.03.2008, 09:52 +0100 schrieb Aurelien:
Hi!
The FREE label AMMD in which I work is going to buy and build a
professionnal studio based on free software and destined to produce free
arts only.
The project is quite advanced, but I'd like to know your mind about the
configuration we think about, and if there are people already using this
kinda material, any feedback would be welcome!
So , here it is:
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
Why do you need flash in a studio ?
You will also have problems with java, as nspluginwrapper doesn't
support java. Blackdown has a 64bit java plugin, but it has some issues.
I use flash+nspluginwrapper on my big box without issues. On my
notebook, i use swfdec-mozilla, which works for youtube. (but there are
still issues ...)
- Should work essentially with Ardour
- Hardware (PC):
. Proc: we were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD), but as we've
seen that quadri-pro are not so expensive anymore, what do you think
about it?
depends on your workload. I can't comment on ardour or that stuff
(If
the app is multithreaded or not).
You should stay away from 9x00 phenoms, (taht means intel right now, if
you ar going to quadcore) as these chips are buggy. Bugfixed Phenoms
will be called 9x50.
. RAM: 4Gb at least (if quadri-pro, much more)
If you are going to 32bit, each application can use a maximum of
probably 2 or 3 gbytes (don't know exactly the limit). If you start
multiple applications, you can still exploit your ram. as unused ram
would be used as page cache, 4 GB will make sense on a 32bit system, but
8 GB only if you are going to start multiple memory intensive apps in
parallel
. Motherboard: we were thinking about using RAID (5
probably) in
order to increase reading speed, but it's only based on an
assumption (intuition?) that we could raise up the perf that way.
Are we right?
I wouldn't say so. But i have nothing to proof my point.
that's just my
intuition. The raid stuff will increase bandwith, but worsen latency
(eg. access time). I'd say that for TYPICAL sata hdds and usage
patterns, the access time is more important than the bandwith.
I got a new seagate hdd for my PC (7200.11 500GB), and it's bandwith is
100MB/s !!! but the access time still sucks :(
If
you need a lot of sequential bandwith, than raid will help.
also RAID5 will improve the reliability of your system.
We'd like this motherboard not to have
audio-embedded.
all modern mainboards i know of have audio onboard. but you can
disable
it in the bios, or just blacklist the driver.
. Graphics: We just want something easy to install
(no proprietary
drivers) that can driver 2 screens in Xinerama mode the easiest way
as possible (my ATI Radeon X850 GTO 16 is not a fair example!). We
don't have any idea about it actually, what about you?
My notebook has an
i965gm, which works perfectly. BUT it's not fast
enough for serious gaming. (compiz-fusion works, and it's fast enough
quake 3). If you are going to use 2 Screens, this implications apply:
a) you need an ADD2 card for your mainboard
b) you can only connect ONE monitor per DVI, the other one needs VGA
c) as the driver only supports 2048x2048 textures, you can forget about
running compiz-fusion with an reasonable resolution per monitor.
If you get an Intel processor and need no gaming, I'd get intel onboard.
If you get an AMD processor, you should get an older ATI (like your
X850 :P). These are the easiest to get working with free drivers.
. Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for
system, and
day-to-day life, and then think about an external SATA solution
which allows to bring a new drive for every project (there will
probably be something like 3 or 4 albums a year on this studio). Of
course, if we want our assumption upon RAID5 to work, we need to
have two identical eSATA drives for each record session.
Nope, for RAID5 you need
at least 3 harddisks. With 2 harddisks, you
have the choice between RAID0 (performance, lower reliability) and RAID1
(higher reliability)
- Hardware (Audio):
I won't comment on that
stuff.
. PCI RME HDSP9532
. two options for the recorders:
+ 2 RME Multiface II (i.e. 16 tracks) linked with ADAT to HDSP9532
+ 1 Alesis HD24 (i.e. 24 tracks and a hard drive) linked with
ADAT to HDSP9532
don't know what option is the best. The RME ADC and DAC are better
than those of the HD24, but the amount of tracks is some way
interesting, and I don't know in what measure the "poor" DAC/ADC of
HD24 will penalize us (knowing the complete acquisition system).
Another problem is that we plan to record some instruments using
AES/EBU and/or S/PDIF and the Multiface doesn't propose it.
There could also be a need to record MIDI parts (synth, machines,
and so on), and I suppose it's not possible with both this
solutions, is it?
- External Hardware (that is quite off-topic with this list, but, by the
way, if you want to know):
. 4x TL-Audio 5001 preamps
. 1x Neumann TLM 103
. 2x Neumann KM184
. 2x Shure Beta 56
. 2x Shure Beta 52
. 1x Shure Beta 91
. 1x Sennheiser MD421
. 6x Beyerdynamic Opus 88
. 1x EV RE20
. 2x AKG C414 + susp.
. 2x Genelec 8020 APM
. stands, racks, and so on.
OK, so here it is. It represents quite a financial thing, so we don't
want to make it wrong. We're open to every advice, discussion, etc.
Thanks a lot.
--
Thomas Ilnseher <illth(a)gmx.de>
10:53 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 01:35:44PM +0100, Thomas Ilnseher wrote :
OK.
Ahow... Perhaps. But on typical projects like 70-80 tracks to read
(that's what we're talking about, there are very big bands in our
label), don't you think bandwidth becomes predominant? (I don't have any
idea about it).
What do you mean?
OK, I have to get back to RAID and to learn a bit more about it.
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
Am Donnerstag, den 20.03.2008, 09:52 +0100 schrieb Aurelien:
No, I thought about effects plugs (synth, reverb, comp, and so on).
Hi!
The FREE label AMMD in which I work is going to buy and build a
professionnal studio based on free software and destined to produce free
arts only.
The project is quite advanced, but I'd like to know your mind about the
configuration we think about, and if there are people already using this
kinda material, any feedback would be welcome!
So , here it is:
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
Why do you need flash in a studio ? - Should work
essentially with Ardour
- Hardware (PC):
. Proc: we were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD), but as we've
seen that quadri-pro are not so expensive anymore, what do you think
about it?
depends on your workload. I can't comment on ardour or that stuff
(If
the app is multithreaded or not).
You should stay away from 9x00 phenoms, (taht means intel right now, if
you ar going to quadcore) as these chips are buggy. Bugfixed Phenoms
will be called 9x50.
. RAM: 4Gb at least (if quadri-pro, much more)
If you are going to 32bit, each application can use a maximum of
probably 2 or 3 gbytes (don't know exactly the limit). If you start
multiple applications, you can still exploit your ram. as unused ram
would be used as page cache, 4 GB will make sense on a 32bit system, but
8 GB only if you are going to start multiple memory intensive apps in
parallel .
Motherboard: we were thinking about using RAID (5 probably) in
order to increase reading speed, but it's only based on an
assumption (intuition?) that we could raise up the perf that way.
Are we right?
I wouldn't say so. But i have nothing to proof my point.
that's just my
intuition. The raid stuff will increase bandwith, but worsen latency
(eg. access time). I'd say that for TYPICAL sata hdds and usage
patterns, the access time is more important than the bandwith. We'd like
this motherboard not to have audio-embedded.
all modern mainboards i know of have
audio onboard. but you can disable
it in the bios, or just blacklist the driver.
. Graphics: We just want something easy to
install (no proprietary
drivers) that can driver 2 screens in Xinerama mode the easiest way
as possible (my ATI Radeon X850 GTO 16 is not a fair example!). We
don't have any idea about it actually, what about you?
My notebook has an
i965gm, which works perfectly. BUT it's not fast
enough for serious gaming. (compiz-fusion works, and it's fast enough
quake 3). If you are going to use 2 Screens, this implications apply:
a) you need an ADD2 card for your mainboard
b) you can only connect ONE monitor per DVI, the other one needs VGA c) as the driver only supports 2048x2048 textures, you
can forget about
running compiz-fusion with an reasonable resolution per monitor.
OK, let's forget about compiz, it's not the purpose! I think we're gonna
use XFCE which should be light and usable for everybody (even those
sound ingeneers who don't have seen anything else than Mac OS !)
. Hard
Drives: we think about a SATA drive for system, and
day-to-day life, and then think about an external SATA solution
which allows to bring a new drive for every project (there will
probably be something like 3 or 4 albums a year on this studio). Of
course, if we want our assumption upon RAID5 to work, we need to
have two identical eSATA drives for each record session.
Nope, for RAID5 you need
at least 3 harddisks. With 2 harddisks, you
have the choice between RAID0 (performance, lower reliability) and RAID1
(higher reliability) 
7:49 p.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Hi the list,
My question is not about the hardware or the software (that's why no
quote) but about the sound engineer (the humanware !!), except yourself,
do you know a lot of sound engineer formed on linux audiosystem ?
YaN
8:08 p.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
What do you mean by formed on Linux Audio system?
If by formed you mean fluent, you can add me to the list, I know a few off
hand without much problem, and I would imagine there are many I don't know
on this list even.
In as far as the OP...
General Comments:
Stay away from Phenom Processors until the revision comes out. Once the
revision hits they will likely be a good bet. Intel, as much as I hate to
say it, right now is the smarter choice until then though.
A lot of people are mentioning Tyan motherboards, just for sake of a flip
side, my workstation was built on a Tyan motherboard that had a hardware
defect take down the SATA controller recently. Took three years for said
defect to show up, so take it as you will.
Did you mean the RME HDSP 9632? Or the 9652? I don't understand why you
would run a Multiface into it though, since the multiface is designed to
connect to a different RME interface card natively. I run/ran a 9632
myself, and ran via ADAT some mic pres into it and was happy with that. Get
some good quality pres, even the RME OctoPre is an option if you want to
stick with them.
I do love the sound of Apogee though since I started running one on my
Macbook Pro. Unfortuanatly I do not believe they are supported yet under
Linux, but that is likely coming. On the flipside their standalone stuf is
of course an option for AD/DA
I like a lot of what you had picked out, take it as you will. Have fun
though.
Seablade
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 6:49 PM, Lilli Chiffon <lilli.chiffon(a)free.fr>
wrote:
Hi the list,
My question is not about the hardware or the software (that's why no
quote) but about the sound engineer (the humanware !!), except yourself,
do you know a lot of sound engineer formed on linux audiosystem ?
YaN
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
21 Mar
21 Mar
5:23 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Hello
<Listening to SleepyTime Gorilla Museum of Natural History - got to hear
that, it's awesome>
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 07:08:04PM -0400, Thomas Vecchione wrote :
General Comments:
Stay away from Phenom Processors until the revision comes out. Once the
revision hits they will likely be a good bet. Intel, as much as I hate to
say it, right now is the smarter choice until then though.
OK, seems to be really true from what has been answered to me!
A lot of people are mentioning Tyan motherboards, just for sake of a flip
side, my workstation was built on a Tyan motherboard that had a hardware
defect take down the SATA controller recently. Took three years for said
defect to show up, so take it as you will.
OK. Thanks for feedback.
Did you mean the RME HDSP 9632? Or the 9652?
Oh, yeah, I meant RME HDSP9652. Sorry.
I don't understand why you
would run a Multiface into it though, since the multiface is designed to
connect to a different RME interface card natively.
Which card?
I've to say, the aim is to get 16 or 24 tracks, don't know if the
dedicated card and then the ADAT links let this be?
I run/ran a 9632
myself, and ran via ADAT some mic pres into it and was happy with that. Get
some good quality pres, even the RME OctoPre is an option if you want to
stick with them.
As we use the TL-Audios preamp, s we don't want the Octopre options.
There something I can't figure out in what you say: how do you run your
pre(amp?)s with ADAT? If so, they have to have ADC, don't they?
TL-Audios don't, and I prefer to have good ADCs (dedicated).
I like a lot of what you had picked out, take it as
you will. Have fun
though.
OK, cool !
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
8:55 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:23 AM, Aurelien <orl(a)ammd.net> wrote:
Ok clears things up a bit there.
Hmm not on the multiface so much, but concidering your setup the digiface
would likely be a better choice. At any rate the interface cards...
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_pci_interface.php
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_pci_e_interface.php
Difference being PCI vs PCI-E
And the Digiface interface, which sounds like it would be a better choice
than the Multiface for what you are looking for, as you are aiming for
external pres and converters...
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_digiface.php#3
The Digiface will do 12 channels of ADAT at 24/96 or 24 Channels at
24/48-24/44.1 if memory serves on a single unit.
Interesting while there I noticed RME had a new card out that, the Ray-DAT.
Random things. Don't know if it is supported in Linux or not, it likely
might be without much work, but sometimes it is better not to risk it.
Yes, depending on the circumstance the Pres I used had AD/DA built in, or I
ran them through some. In as far as your situation, I gotta be honest and
admit I like the Apogee stuff for the AD/DA situation, and it might make a
good pair with those TL-Audio pres, though I haven't used the TL-Audio pres
to comment on them myself.
Hmm I did notice the reccomendation for the 15K SCSI hard drives. I am not
sure I agree with that particular reccomendation over a RAID array with
two(Or twice as many) 7200 Hard Drives myself. Last I heard them those
15ks, and even the 10ks were pretty loud. Personal preference there, but
something to keep in mind depending on where your drives are located.
Seablade
Did you mean the RME HDSP 9632? Or the 9652?
Oh, yeah, I meant RME HDSP9652. Sorry.
I don't understand why you
would run a Multiface into it though, since the multiface is designed to
connect to a different RME interface card natively.
Which card?
I've to say, the aim is to get 16 or 24 tracks, don't know if the
dedicated card and then the ADAT links let this be?
I run/ran a 9632
myself, and ran via ADAT some mic pres into it and was happy with that.
Get
some good quality pres, even the RME OctoPre is
an option if you want to
stick with them.
As we use the TL-Audios preamp, s we don't want the Octopre options.
There something I can't figure out in what you say: how do you run your
pre(amp?)s with ADAT? If so, they have to have ADC, don't they?
TL-Audios don't, and I prefer to have good ADCs (dedicated).
10:20 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 07:55:55AM -0400, Thomas Vecchione wrote :
Hmm not on the multiface so much, but concidering your setup the digiface
would likely be a better choice. At any rate the interface cards...
But digiface doesn't have conerters?
I think my poor English has lead me to be misunderstood.
We don't want converters external to the HDSP, we just want the preamps
to jus be preamps and no converters (as to remind, the preamps should be
TL-Audio Ivory II serie).
By the way it looks we can use till 3 Multiface with Linux, so the
dedicated card + 3 multiface is a quite nice solution.
The question was also about the choice between Multiface (x3) and an
Alesis HD24XR. They have the same converters, but the clock, the jitter,
etc. aren't the same. It looks like the RME are better, but the HD24XR
seems to suffer from the HD24's reputation.
I don't know what the best between those two solutions, indeed, and if
someone has tried the HD24XR (eventually linked with ADAT to an
HDSP9652), I'd be glad to read his feelings.
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:23 AM, Aurelien
<orl(a)ammd.net> wrote:
Ok clears things up a bit there.
OK, well.
Did you mean the RME HDSP 9632? Or the 9652?
Oh, yeah, I meant RME HDSP9652. Sorry.
I don't understand why you
would run a Multiface into it though, since the multiface is designed to
connect to a different RME interface card natively.
Which card?
I've to say, the aim is to get 16 or 24 tracks, don't know if the
dedicated card and then the ADAT links let this be?
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_pci_interface.php
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_pci_e_interface.php
Difference being PCI vs PCI-E
OK, thanks.
And the Digiface interface, which sounds like it would be a better choice
than the Multiface for what you are looking for, as you are aiming for
external pres and converters...
No, no, just external pres.
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_digiface.php#3
Hmm I did notice the reccomendation for the 15K SCSI hard drives. I am not
sure I agree with that particular reccomendation over a RAID array with
two(Or twice as many) 7200 Hard Drives myself. Last I heard them those
15ks, and even the 10ks were pretty loud. Personal preference there, but
something to keep in mind depending on where your drives are located.
Yeah, that can be a problem, indeed. As it's gonna be a mobile studio,
there are many configuration that shall exist. but anyway, I think we
always prefer have the DSP/PC/sound ingeneer/loud machines in another
room. So, I think we can take a bit loud hard drive (I suppose it's not
something untolerable).
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
11:31 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Aurelien <orl(a)ammd.net> wrote:
But digiface doesn't have conerters?
I think my poor English has lead me to be misunderstood.
We don't want converters external to the HDSP, we just want the preamps
to jus be preamps and no converters (as to remind, the preamps should be
TL-Audio Ivory II serie).
Ok, I misunderstood your intent then. I think I got that impression from
you mentioning using the Multiface as an external A/D D/A with the HDSP9652.
By the way it looks we can use till 3 Multiface with Linux, so the
dedicated card + 3 multiface is a quite nice solution.
I thought I recalled somewhere a capability to daisy-chain multiface units,
but taking a look at the unit itself I only see a single host port, so I
believe that I was wrong in that regards. In which case it limits the
possibilities of cards playing well.
It is, of course, a bit more tricky to combine the three cards into a single
unit for use with Jack if there are three separate cards. I believe it is
possible to have three multifaces, with three interface cards, so long as
they are properly syncd via wordclock it should work in theory. However
note that I have never tried it, it is a more complex setup, and personally
I think I would lean away from it in favor of doing a single interface that
has plenty of I/O for what you need (Like your original thought with the
9652) and external AD/DA (Which RME has some units dedicated to this purpose
along with the obvious choices like Apogee).
The question was also about the choice between
Multiface (x3) and an
Alesis HD24XR. They have the same converters, but the clock, the jitter,
etc. aren't the same. It looks like the RME are better, but the HD24XR
seems to suffer from the HD24's reputation.
I don't know what the best between those two solutions, indeed, and if
someone has tried the HD24XR (eventually linked with ADAT to an
HDSP9652), I'd be glad to read his feelings.
If memory serves, the HD24XR IS the HD24 with a bit more processing. It is
only capable of 12 tracks at 24/96 I believe though, not the full 24. In my
experience with the HD24, I find them to be a good machine for recording
live shows, however transferring the show off the HD24 I found it to be a
much better solution to use an external USB enclosure, and use third party
tools to transfer the information directly from the drive to my local
drive. I can look up the program I used if you would like.
Their FTP server I consider to be complete crap for transferring recordings
of any length over a couple minutes. Doing 1 hour recordings and above, it
continually crapped out on me in transfers and was extremely slow on top of
that. Compared to the direct connection method mentioned above, which was
far more stable, far faster, and in general far better, I would never touch
their FTP transfer again.
I have not used their fireport transfer method though I have heard it is
decent. It sounds like you were looking at transferring by wiring ADAT and
recording in real time form the playback of the HD24? I would say,
especially when using Ardour, it is better to transfer the files via direct
connection as mentioned above, but this is just personal opinion. In
dealing with largee track counts of large shows, it is probably a moot point
so long as you never have a problem doing the recording in Ardour.
Yeah, that can be a problem, indeed. As it's gonna
be a mobile studio,
there are many configuration that shall exist. but anyway, I think we
always prefer have the DSP/PC/sound ingeneer/loud machines in another
room. So, I think we can take a bit loud hard drive (I suppose it's not
something untolerable).
Ok just tossing it out there, personal preference only;)
Seablade
5:16 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:49:55PM +0100, Lilli wrote :
Hi the list,
My question is not about the hardware or the software (that's why no
quote) but about the sound engineer (the humanware !!), except yourself,
do you know a lot of sound engineer formed on linux audiosystem ?
Well, I'm not really a sound ingeneer. I mean I can do the recordings
parts, and some artistic direction stuff, but I don't want to do some
mix and/or mastering (I hate this kinda paradox between all the choices
in front of you).
Luckily, there are some other people in the AMMD who can. Actually there
is another person like me, and three other who are "real" sound
ingeneers (working on stage also).
We also write all the notations using Rosegarden/Lilypond.
So, there are people knowing!!!
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
11:39 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Lilli Chiffon a écrit :
Hi the list,
My question is not about the hardware or the software (that's why no
quote) but about the sound engineer (the humanware !!), except yourself,
do you know a lot of sound engineer formed on linux audiosystem ?
By formed (maybe french word) i mean, a people who learned on linux system.
YaN
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
noon
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Lilli Chiffon a écrit :
Lilli Chiffon a écrit :
Hi,
Trained would be the right word!
As a (French) sound engineer myself, I can say that a sound engineer
cannot be trained on every specific equipment out there but *must* know
the generic principles behind these (How to use a mic/a mixing desk be
it analog or digital/an hardware or software based DAW ...) and be able
to use *any* equipment with little effort and a bunch of documentations.
That's also the work of the assistant from the studio to help him do
what he wants with whatever equipment is available at the facility.
Anyone that cannot get used to a new equipment in a matter of a few
hours is *not* a sound engineer and needs more training on the technical
principles of the equipments.
My thoughts...
- --
Raphaël Doursenaud
Hi the list,
My question is not about the hardware or the software (that's why no
quote) but about the sound engineer (the humanware !!), except yourself,
do you know a lot of sound engineer formed on linux audiosystem ?
By formed (maybe french word) i mean, a people who learned on linux system.
> YaN -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFH481+aZKmNAdXaVURAt8PAJ9hYNDkChqWfmB5QsTk6Vd/btD5ngCePBhd
F8gnECXziy1EW0GAvAncjs4=
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25 Mar
25 Mar
7:16 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 04:00:14PM +0100, Raphaël Doursenaud wrote :
Hi,
Trained would be the right word!
As a (French) sound engineer myself, I can say that a sound engineer
cannot be trained on every specific equipment out there but *must* know
the generic principles behind these (How to use a mic/a mixing desk be
it analog or digital/an hardware or software based DAW ...) and be able
to use *any* equipment with little effort and a bunch of documentations.
That's also the work of the assistant from the studio to help him do
what he wants with whatever equipment is available at the facility.
Anyone that cannot get used to a new equipment in a matter of a few
hours is *not* a sound engineer and needs more training on the technical
principles of the equipments.
My thoughts...
are right, if you ask me!! ;)
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
20 Mar
20 Mar
1:04 p.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 09:52:57AM +0100, Aurelien wrote:
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian self-customized
for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
Have you considered having two computers with ADAT going between them?
Then you can do 64bit on you main expensive system, and have a cheap
($500 or less before ADAT card) PC for the few bits that won't do 64
bits nicely.
21 Mar
21 Mar
5:25 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:43:10AM -0400, Joshua Boyd wrote :
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 09:52:57AM +0100, Aurelien
wrote:
I was thinking about it. But I think what takes the more "ressources" is
the plugs, which I suppose are often build for 32bits.
There is also the "over ethernet" solutions (we're using that on stage).
- System : Ubuntu Studio and/or Debian
self-customized for
audio-purposes. Does it have a big interest for such audio
applications to install a 64bits distribution? I suppose there will be
problems with some 32bits plugins, although there is the
ndispluginwrapper solution. It's bit like a troll, but it really
matters for us.
Have you considered having two computers with ADAT going between them?
Then you can do 64bit on you main expensive system, and have a cheap
($500 or less before ADAT card) PC for the few bits that won't do 64
bits nicely. 
20 Mar
20 Mar
7:07 p.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
Aurelien <orl(a)ammd.net> writes:
Proc: we were going on a dual core (Intel or AMD)
AMD, as their design is better, though the architecture is the same, of
course. I don't know if newer Intel chips still inhibits the denormal
problems. Anyone?.
RAM
Well, what latency RAM?. I'm used to CAS latency of 2, but that seems
non existant with newer chips. Has someone done a review of DDR2/DDR3
latency and what is the chip with the lowest latency available?.
Motherboard
TYAN, of course. Not only because it's the top of the line from the
compu hut, but also because you can run coreboot on the BIOS, f.ex
making it dead simple to configure IRQs' and other tunings.
Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for system
Nono. You said you wanted to do this right, so SATA is out of the
question. Get a low latency SCSI HD with high MTBF, like this one 2ms
latency drive:
http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/enterprise/mba3300…
RME Multiface II
I got the RME Multiface, but we all know that the converters that
Apogee uses are better;).
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
21 Mar
21 Mar
5:27 a.m.
New subject: Configuration for a FREE professionnal studio : your minds about my proposal
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 12:56:39AM +0100, Esben Stien wrote :
Yeah, but I think it's already really fine, I guess. HD24XR converters
seems to be the same, but are quite less good, though.
--
==============================
ORL /// AMMD Booking (www.ammd.net)
° Sebkha-Chott (www.sebkhachott.net - Ohreland [FR]) - next touring period: 04-06/2008
° Unexpect (www.unexpect.com - Montréal [CA]) - Europe tour w/ Sebkha-Chott period:
09-12/2008
° La Muette (www.myspace.com/muette - Paris [FR]) - next touring period: 03-05/2008
° Mel-P (http://melpmusic.websanslimit.net - Le Mans [FR]) - next touring period:
01-04/2008
Phone: +33 (0)95 234 72 48
Aurelien <orl(a)ammd.net> writes:
Er, OK.
Motherboard
TYAN, of course. Not only because it's the top of the line from the
compu hut, but also because you can run coreboot on the BIOS, f.ex
making it dead simple to configure IRQs' and other tunings.
Hard Drives: we think about a SATA drive for
system
Nono. You said you wanted to do this right, so SATA is out of the
question. Get a low latency SCSI HD with high MTBF, like this one 2ms
latency drive:
http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/enterprise/mba3300…
RME Multiface II
I got the RME Multiface, but we all know that the converters that
Apogee uses are better;).
6092
days inactive
6097
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
18 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Aurelien -
Esben Stien -
Joshua Boyd -
Lilli Chiffon -
Raphaël Doursenaud -
Thomas Ilnseher -
Thomas Vecchione