7 Apr
2003
7 Apr
'03
6:09 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 02:40:40 +0900, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Well, theres almost nothing to SDL (well the parts I used anyway), I just
dont think its appropriate, I ended up writing widget code for the sliders
and stuff, which is why they suck so much. In retrosect just using GTK
would have been easier.
Thats a good point. The current state is that I'm halfway through
refactoring the UI code to make some of the compressor controls rotary, so
its impossible to tell what its doing at the moment. The question is
wether its quicker to rescue the SDL code or replace it with GTK code or
similar.
Is there anyone else who wants to work on this? If not I'l just leave the
code where it is for now and give Patrick a login on the machine. If there
are a few people I'l have to move it to sourceforge or something, but I
dont really want to do that cos I think theres going to be some major
structural work needs doing.
- Steve
Steve Harris wrote:
Ahh, yes time, but also working out a UI for it. Its kinda optional, so I
doubt it will make 0.1.
On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 11:56:16PM +0900, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
?
There will
be 3 band compression, linear parametric EQ and a lookahead
limiter, maybe also a learning limiter.
Is that called time? >>maybe also a learning limiter.
:) If your willing
to work on the UI, then maybe the thing to do is to strip
it down and rebuild the UI code. I can stick the current code in a public
CVS server somewhere (its currently on a private server), but its pretty
scary in its current state.
I have no qualms about learning SDL unless you really think it is a bad
idea. The thing is *learning* it but I am willing to drop (almost)
everything and focus on it for a while. If you want I can give you ftp access to djcj.org and
you can put it
there in a semi/private place.
The intention wasn't that it be especially private, I just didn't think
anyone else would want to work on it. I originally wanted to get beta bug
reports from a small number of people so I could handle the feedback, but
I dont think that will be a problem now.
I have no
particular feelings about what toolkit, as long as its C, and
preferably has working vertical faders, the ones in GTK-1.x are
inconvienient.
I willing to go with the current stuff and work from there. It may be
that it needs a complete redesign but I think it would be good to get
something out sooner rather than later. 
7 Apr
7 Apr
6:26 p.m.
Hi,
Is there anyone else who wants to work on this? If
not I'l just leave the
code where it is for now and give Patrick a login on
the machine.
I can't code but I can test and provide my big loud
opinion. :)
I dropped out on you last time because of hardware
problems but I've got most of those worked out and am
getting back into the swing.
ron
structural work needs doing.
- Steve
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6:51 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 01:16:30 -0700, R Parker wrote:
Hi,
Cool. I like big loud opinions :)
Is there anyone else who wants to work on this?
If
not I'l just leave the
code where it is for now and give Patrick a login on
the machine.
I can't code but I can test and provide my big loud
opinion. :) I dropped out on you last time because of hardware
problems but I've got most of those worked out and am
getting back into the swing.
Neat. I wouldn't bother testing the last release though.
- Steve
6:52 p.m.
Steve,
Can I help with the coding. I have a *lot* of C/Motif experience and
I'm just getting into C++/Qt.
Jan
On Mon, 2003-04-07 at 15:00, Steve Harris wrote:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 02:40:40 +0900, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
Well, theres almost nothing to SDL (well the parts I used anyway), I just
dont think its appropriate, I ended up writing widget code for the sliders
and stuff, which is why they suck so much. In retrosect just using GTK
would have been easier.
Thats a good point. The current state is that I'm halfway through
refactoring the UI code to make some of the compressor controls rotary, so
its impossible to tell what its doing at the moment. The question is
wether its quicker to rescue the SDL code or replace it with GTK code or
similar.
Is there anyone else who wants to work on this? If not I'l just leave the
code where it is for now and give Patrick a login on the machine. If there
are a few people I'l have to move it to sourceforge or something, but I
dont really want to do that cos I think theres going to be some major
structural work needs doing.
- Steve
Steve Harris wrote:
Ahh, yes time, but also working out a UI for it. Its kinda optional, so I
doubt it will make 0.1.
On Mon, Apr 07, 2003 at 11:56:16PM +0900, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
>There will be 3 band compression, linear
parametric EQ and a lookahead
>limiter, maybe also a learning limiter.
>
Is that called time?
? >>maybe also a learning limiter.
:) If your
willing to work on the UI, then maybe the thing to do is to strip
it down and rebuild the UI code. I can stick the current code in a public
CVS server somewhere (its currently on a private server), but its pretty
scary in its current state.
I have no qualms about learning SDL unless you really think it is a bad
idea. The thing is *learning* it but I am willing to drop (almost)
everything and focus on it for a while. If you want I can give you ftp access to djcj.org
and you can put it
there in a semi/private place.
The intention wasn't that it be especially private, I just didn't think
anyone else would want to work on it. I originally wanted to get beta bug
reports from a small number of people so I could handle the feedback, but
I dont think that will be a problem now.
I have no
particular feelings about what toolkit, as long as its C, and
preferably has working vertical faders, the ones in GTK-1.x are
inconvienient.
I willing to go with the current stuff and work from there. It may be
that it needs a complete redesign but I think it would be good to get
something out sooner rather than later. 
8 Apr
8 Apr
2:10 a.m.
Jan "Evil Twin" Depner wrote:
Steve,
Can I help with the coding. I have a *lot* of C/Motif experience and
I'm just getting into C++/Qt.
There's two people who have volunteered. We all have webspace to host
this baby so the next move is yours Steve.
Jan and I have already established a working relationship so this could
be more like fun and games and less like working -_-
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
6:25 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 12:48:09 +0900, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Jan "Evil Twin" Depner wrote:
OK, my immediate plan is to leave the CVS where it is and give Patrick and
Jan CVS access to the machine. When we know what were going to do with the
code and the tree has settled down I'l move it to sourceforge or
somewhere. [Patrick and Jan, mail me off list with usernames and
disposable passwords]
I'l create a sourceforge account to get a mailing list, but maybe it needs
a new name...
It was origianlly called pressgang, 'cos the mastering suite was going to
be modular, and pressgang was going to be the compressor part but it grew
into the whole thing. The name doesn't /really/ make sense anymore, so if
anyone has a better suggestion we could go with that.
Steve,
Can I help with the coding. I have a *lot* of C/Motif experience and
I'm just getting into C++/Qt.
There's two people who have volunteered. We all have webspace to host
this baby so the next move is yours Steve. Jan and I have already established a working
relationship so this could
be more like fun and games and less like working -_-
Cool :)
- Steve
7:26 a.m.
Hi,
I'd like to write some user documentation. I had a TOC
written but who knows what I did with it. I could
probably find it.
Mastering
Pressgang
Linux
Audio
Linux Audio Mastering Package LAMP; stop mixing in the
dark, it's the most exciting thing since sliced bread,
Professional
ProMAL Yuck! Professional Mastering Audio Linux
Toolkit
MAT Mastering Audio Toolkit
jack
jackd
jackit
MasterJACK
JackMASTER
JAM, Jack Audio Mastering--OK, that's the one that
gets my vote. :)
JAM, it don't make toast taste better!
JAM, guarenteed to light your palett.
JAM, We doit!
JAM, Who needs Nike!
JAM, We do, so should you!
JAM We hope you like JAM'n too.
JAM Digitally Flavored
JAM MMMMMM
Everything's better with JAM
JAM Butter not included
Anyway, it's been along day--as if that didn't just
become more than obvious.
ron
--- Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 12:48:09 +0900, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
have webspace to host
__________________________________________________
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Jan "Evil Twin" Depner wrote:
>Steve,
>
> Can I help with the coding. I have a *lot* of
C/Motif experience and
I'm
just getting into C++/Qt.
There's two people who have volunteered. We all this baby so the next move is yours Steve.
OK, my immediate plan is to leave the CVS where it
is and give Patrick and
Jan CVS access to the machine. When we know what
were going to do with the
code and the tree has settled down I'l move it to
sourceforge or
somewhere. [Patrick and Jan, mail me off list with
usernames and
disposable passwords]
I'l create a sourceforge account to get a mailing
list, but maybe it needs
a new name...
It was origianlly called pressgang, 'cos the
mastering suite was going to
be modular, and pressgang was going to be the
compressor part but it grew
into the whole thing. The name doesn't /really/ make
sense anymore, so if
anyone has a better suggestion we could go with
that.
Jan and I have already established a working
relationship so this could
be more like fun and games and less like working
-_-
Cool :)
- Steve 
8:51 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to write some user documentation. I had a TOC
written but who knows what I did with it. I could
probably find it.
<skipped/>
Ron, it was damn funny! :-)
Will the documentation be FDL'ed?
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
2:48 p.m.
Hi,
--- Alexandre Prokoudine <avp(a)altlinux.ru> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
That's the GNU's counter part to the GPL for
documenation? That would get my vote. However, I defer
any decision on licensing to Steve. I think Steve
should have copyright on the documentation. If I work
on it and am credited, I'm happy.
ron
Hi,
I'd like to write some user documentation. I had a
TOC
written but who knows what I did with it. I
could
probably find it.
<skipped/>
Ron, it was damn funny! :-)
Will the documentation be FDL'ed? --
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature
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6:01 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 09:38:52 -0700, R Parker wrote:
That's the GNU's counter part to the GPL for
documenation? That would get my vote. However, I defer
any decision on licensing to Steve. I think Steve
should have copyright on the documentation. If I work
on it and am credited, I'm happy.
Hell no. I really can't be trusted with docs, I can't spell, my grammar is
terrible, you name it :) I really dont undeastand how anyone could bring
themsevles to write docs without being payed or made to ;)
I write code, if other people are prepared to document it then that's
great. The copyright should belong to the authors.
- Steve
6:19 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:52:08 +0100
Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
Hell no. I really can't be trusted with docs, I
can't spell, my grammar is
terrible, you name it :) I really dont undeastand how anyone could bring
themsevles to write docs without being payed or made to ;)
On the other hand, I *can* spell and write grammatically, so that is
something I can bring to the party :)
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
8:56 p.m.
Hi,
Joe, I'd like to work together. In whatever capacity.
It's all good by me. Although I do become pretty anal
about style.
I am leary of humor or alot of editorial opinion in
technical documents. I'm to busy to read things like
that and when designing a document, I assume everyone
just wants the facts. However, upon reviewing past
documents that I've written, I find them to be dry and
uninspiring. Perhaps there's some type of balance we
could discover.
It might be worth trying a modified Associated Press
style report for the production of a song where the
primary focus is on mastering. I could try to pull it
off. Then if someone in the session says something
useful and entertaining, it would be a colorful quote
rather than a writers (mine) inbred and dull
selfhumor.
I don't want to get to ambitious either so I'll see
what opportunity presents to us. It'll be awhile
before JAM is ready to come out of the test closet and
into a commercial session so we've got time. I've got
plenty of clients that'd be happy to be the subject of
a technical report.
I suspect alot of aspiring engineers and musicians
don't understand what mastering is so it might be
important for us to explain to people how it differs
from mixing. There's also the mysterious vodo vibe
where mastering is best left to a small fraternity of
unsociable and seasoned veterans. Maybe I'm ignorant
but my experience has shown me that mastering is
relatively straight forward. Of course I've got a
couple of the right components in place for performing
the task; an accoustically tuned room, a decent set of
monitors and between my partners and I about 50 years
of mixing experience.
If anyone is aware of good articles on mastering,
online, please do bring them to our attention. I don't
read much about engineering so I'm completely unaware
of resources.
If the JAM code is available, I'll install, begin
testing and refamiliarizing myself with it.
I imagine we'll move conversations concerning JAM to a
sourceforge mailing list when the new site is
available. Has anyone registered the name that Steve's
happy with?
Joe, I'll dig up the TOC that I've written and mail it
to you.
I'm really happy to see people rally for JAM. IMO,
which often has the equivalent value of deer track
soup, it's a significant piece of the linux audio
puzzle.
ron
--- Joe Hartley <jh(a)brainiac.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 20:52:08 +0100
Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
======================================================================
Hell no. I really can't be trusted with docs,
I
can't spell, my grammar is
terrible, you name it :) I really dont undeastand
how anyone could bring
themsevles to write docs without being payed or
made to ;)
On the other hand, I *can* spell and write
grammatically, so that is
something I can bring to the party :)
--
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant -
jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not
possible. - FZappa
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
9:59 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I suspect alot of aspiring engineers and musicians
don't understand what mastering is so it might be
important for us to explain to people how it differs
from mixing.
This, I think, is the crux of the biscuit. It took me
years to realize that a significant portion of the things
I was trying to accomplish in the mixing phase were really
mastering issues.
While I think this is not the right place for a textbook on
compression, we will have to give a primer on the basics
of compression as it pertains to mastering. Learning just
a smidge about that made the final version of a project I
was working on come alive!
More importantly, good documentation is NOT written by running
through the menus and writing a paragraph on each one. Such
reference is handy, but I feel it is more important to explain
the work flow of a tool, explaining what the most likely tweaks
are at each stage and how to access them.
I look forward to subscribing to yet another mailing list :)
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
10:53 p.m.
Hi,
Joe, great points. I'm all for explaining eq,
compression and limiting to the best of our abilities.
They're the mastering engineers toolset.
I've got the xml docbook framework for a JAM book
marked up including make files. When I find my old
TOC, I'll add those documents to these.
Is sourceforge running the required tools to generate
html from the xml? If not, Steve or Jan, do either of
you have a CVS server and the docbook tools installed
somewhere so we could put this stuff on one of your
servers?
I don't want to take the time to build the environment
myself. I'd rather start testing JAM and writing
content.
ron
--- Joe Hartley <jh(a)brainiac.com> wrote:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
======================================================================
I suspect alot of aspiring engineers and
musicians
don't understand what mastering is so it might be
important for us to explain to people how it
differs
from mixing.
This, I think, is the crux of the biscuit. It took
me
years to realize that a significant portion of the
things
I was trying to accomplish in the mixing phase were
really
mastering issues.
While I think this is not the right place for a
textbook on
compression, we will have to give a primer on the
basics
of compression as it pertains to mastering.
Learning just
a smidge about that made the final version of a
project I
was working on come alive!
More importantly, good documentation is NOT written
by running
through the menus and writing a paragraph on each
one. Such
reference is handy, but I feel it is more important
to explain
the work flow of a tool, explaining what the most
likely tweaks
are at each stage and how to access them.
I look forward to subscribing to yet another mailing
list :)
--
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant -
jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not
possible. - FZappa
__________________________________________________
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http://tax.yahoo.com
9 Apr
9 Apr
6:25 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I've got the xml docbook framework for a JAM book
marked up including make files. When I find my old
TOC, I'll add those documents to these.
Is sourceforge running the required tools to generate
html from the xml? If not, Steve or Jan, do either of
you have a CVS server and the docbook tools installed
somewhere so we could put this stuff on one of your
servers?
My primary job is all about docbook/xml
Feel free to abuse me :-)
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
10:51 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 17:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Is sourceforge running the required tools to generate
html from the xml? If not, Steve or Jan, do either of
you have a CVS server and the docbook tools installed
somewhere so we could put this stuff on one of your
servers?
I don't want to take the time to build the environment
myself. I'd rather start testing JAM and writing
content.
I am a System Administrator by trade; if we need a server to handle
*anything*, a mailing list, CVS, docbook stuff, please let me know,
and something will appear on the net!
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
7:06 p.m.
OK, there is now a list here:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jamin-devel
Please subscribe if you want to discuss any detail. Ignore the -devel, I'l
split the lists if/when non-technical discussion becomes excessive.
- Steve
8 Apr
8 Apr
9:31 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 02:16:26AM -0700, R Parker wrote:
Hi,
I'd like to write some user documentation. I had a TOC
written but who knows what I did with it. I could
probably find it.
If not, I can.
Linux Audio Mastering Package LAMP; stop mixing in
the
dark, it's the most exciting thing since sliced bread,
Professional
ProMAL Yuck! Professional Mastering Audio Linux
Hmm... I'm always suspicious of apps with Proffesional in thier title,
sounds like they have something to prove.
JackMASTER
Sounds like an 80's rap artist :)
JAM, Jack Audio Mastering--OK, that's the one
that
gets my vote. :)
Yeah, its pretty good, I especially like jam and toast for the final cut :)
My only concern is that JAM is a bit short, theres allready a jam.sf.net
I guess the project should be jamit in the style of jackit ;)
- Steve
9:51 a.m.
Steve Harris wrote:
Jamin.sf.net is available.
sounds better to me.
Then we can say JACKed Audio Mastering Is Nice and if you don't know
that, you don't know ...
Or
Q: Why are you spending so long on that song?
A: We're Jamin. (JACK Audio Masterin)
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
JAM, Jack Audio Mastering--OK, that's the one
that
gets my vote. :)
Yeah, its pretty good, I especially like jam and toast for the final cut :)
My only concern is that JAM is a bit short, theres allready a jam.sf.net
I guess the project should be jamit in the style of jackit ;)
11 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 08:28:36PM +0900, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Steve Harris wrote:
Jamin.sf.net is available.
sounds better to me.
Yeah, Damn, I've allready registered jamit.
- Steve
JAM, Jack Audio Mastering--OK, that's the one
that
gets my vote. :)
Yeah, its pretty good, I especially like jam and toast for the final cut :)
My only concern is that JAM is a bit short, theres allready a jam.sf.net
I guess the project should be jamit in the style of jackit ;)
9 Apr
9 Apr
3:14 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 02:16:26 -0700 (PDT), R Parker wrote / a écrit:
Linux Audio Mastering Package LAMP; stop mixing in
the
dark, it's the most exciting thing since sliced bread,
[snip]
JAM Butter not included
JAM best thing since sliced bread
cheers
-----------------------------------------------
#ICQ 37736372
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-----------------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html
-----------------------------------------------
8 Apr
8 Apr
10:01 a.m.
Steve Harris wrote:
OK, my immediate plan is to leave the CVS where it is and give Patrick and
Jan CVS access to the machine. When we know what were going to do with the
code and the tree has settled down I'l move it to sourceforge or
somewhere. [Patrick and Jan, mail me off list with usernames and
disposable passwords]
u: kotau
p: Jam1n
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
10:09 a.m.
On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:39:06 +0900
Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
<skipped/>
Patrick, that was insecure
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
11:30 a.m.
Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 20:39:06 +0900
Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
<skipped/>
Patrick, that was insecure
Yet still throwaway ;P
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
11:21 a.m.
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Steve Harris wrote:
Bah auto reply :(
I'll send again.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
OK, my immediate plan is to leave the CVS where it is and give Patrick
and
Jan CVS access to the machine. When we know what were going to do with
the
code and the tree has settled down I'l move it to sourceforge or
somewhere. [Patrick and Jan, mail me off list with usernames and
disposable passwords]
u: kotau
p: Jam1n
12:53 p.m.
Is there anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering equation? The other
tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show up on your CD player LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful area to make a
contribution.
Cheers,
Mark
1:20 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 07:43:44 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
Cool.
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like. Is anyone working on the other half of this
Mastering equation? The other
tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show up on your CD player LCD,
etc.
That should be part of the deal, but it wont be at first. In the simplest
case its wrapper round cdrdao, which I've used to press audio CD before.
- Steve
1:49 p.m.
Mark Knecht wrote:
I thought there were already a few good cd creation guis for linux.
Worth checking linux-sound.org if you haven't already.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
Is there anyone
else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering equation? The other
tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show up on your CD player LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful area to make a
contribution.
2:06 p.m.
Patrick,
I think there are, but I haven't found one that seems oriented towards
controlling the contents of the CD with the degrees of flexibility you get
from CD Architect.
That said, I will spend some time perusing there again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these things, like fades between
two separate wave files, intergap & inter-track spacing, track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take), track names, I'd certainly
be interested.
Cheers,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Shirkey [mailto:pshirkey@boosthardware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:27 AM
To: Mark Knecht
Cc: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Mastering app
Mark Knecht wrote:
equation? The other
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering tool I cannot find in Linux is something like
"CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and
arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do
fades between
tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show
up on your CD
player LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get
technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful
area to make a
contribution.
I thought there were already a few good cd creation guis for linux.
Worth checking linux-sound.org if you haven't already.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
2:29 p.m.
Mark Knecht wrote on Tue, 08-Apr-2003:
That said, I will spend some time perusing there
again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these things, like fades between
two separate wave files, intergap & inter-track spacing, track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take), track names, I'd certainly
be interested.
There are several that can do everything you mentioned with regard
to spacing and track points (gcdmaster w/cdrdao is one), but I
haven't run across one that will do actual audio processing like
complex fades or cross-fades as well.
There are also a few features of such a proposed tool that would
be nice for CD mastering:
* quick-jump auditioning between several points to get a feel for perceived
relative levels on different tracks (ideally, with very low latency switching)
* integration with Steve's mastering toolkit (JAM) to make this *the*
tool. I think that JAM should be implemented plugin-based,
so that a GUI/diskIO tool such as this could encapsulate all
the mastering needs, *but* other tools can still make use of
it.
just throwing stuff out....
jlc
2:40 p.m.
Jesse Chappell wrote:
Mark Knecht wrote on Tue, 08-Apr-2003:
erhm... alsaplayer?
That said, I will spend some time perusing
there again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these things, like fades between
two separate wave files, intergap & inter-track spacing, track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take), track names, I'd certainly
be interested.
There are several that can do everything you mentioned with regard
to spacing and track points (gcdmaster w/cdrdao is one), but I
haven't run across one that will do actual audio processing like
complex fades or cross-fades as well.
There are also a few features of such a proposed tool that would
be nice for CD mastering:
* quick-jump auditioning between several points to get a feel for perceived
relative levels on different tracks (ideally, with very low latency switching)
* integration with Steve's mastering toolkit
(JAM) to make this *the*
tool. I think that JAM should be implemented plugin-based,
so that a GUI/diskIO tool such as this could encapsulate all
the mastering needs, *but* other tools can still make use of
it.
You want it to be a sound editor too?
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
3:11 p.m.
Those are all useful features that I'd like to see
too.
In a version 1 I'd be happy with a JAM dsp chain that
recieves input from Ardour:master[L,R]_playback. Why?
In one word, granularity. If the bass guitar is to
loud in a mix, switch windows to Ardour, make
appropriate adjustments, return to JAM and resume
mastering the stereo image.
There's no need to affect the entire range of the mix
when one instrument is a problem. I think of this as
two issues, problem fixing and mastering.
MMMMM I like JAMIN,
ron
--- Jesse Chappell <jesse(a)essej.net> wrote:
Mark Knecht wrote on Tue, 08-Apr-2003:
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
That said, I will spend some time perusing
there again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these
things, like fades between
two separate wave files, intergap &
inter-track
spacing, track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining
the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take),
track names, I'd certainly
be interested.
There are several that can do everything you
mentioned with regard
to spacing and track points (gcdmaster w/cdrdao is
one), but I
haven't run across one that will do actual audio
processing like
complex fades or cross-fades as well.
There are also a few features of such a proposed
tool that would
be nice for CD mastering:
* quick-jump auditioning between several points to
get a feel for perceived
relative levels on different tracks (ideally,
with very low latency switching)
* integration with Steve's mastering toolkit (JAM)
to make this *the*
tool. I think that JAM should be implemented
plugin-based,
so that a GUI/diskIO tool such as this could
encapsulate all
the mastering needs, *but* other tools can still
make use of
it.
just throwing stuff out....
jlc
6:15 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:01:48 -0700, R Parker wrote:
In a version 1 I'd be happy with a JAM dsp chain
that
recieves input from Ardour:master[L,R]_playback. Why?
In one word, granularity. If the bass guitar is to
loud in a mix, switch windows to Ardour, make
appropriate adjustments, return to JAM and resume
mastering the stereo image.
Yes, thats what it's designed to do at the moment, once it does that we
can decide what other features we want.
There's no need to affect the entire range of the
mix
when one instrument is a problem. I think of this as
two issues, problem fixing and mastering.
I agree, I think these things have been merged to closely in the past.
MMMMM I like JAMIN,
Yeah, if someone else registers jamin.sf.net, I'l ditch jamit. I dont want
to request jamin so soon after, the sourceforge guys will think I'm a twat
:)
- Steve
2:32 p.m.
martedì, 08 aprile 2003 alle 08:56:12, Mark Knecht ha scritto:
Patrick,
I think there are, but I haven't found one that seems oriented towards
controlling the contents of the CD with the degrees of flexibility you get
from CD Architect.
The closest to CD Architect that I've found is gcdmaster, a frontend to
cdrdao.
http://cdrdao.sourceforge.net/gcdmaster/index.html
Cheers
--
.-----------------------.
| Emiliano Grilli |
| emillo(a)libero.it |
| Linux user #209089 |
| http://www.emillo.net |
'-----------------------'
2:36 p.m.
Mark Knecht wrote:
Patrick,
I think there are, but I haven't found one that seems oriented towards
controlling the contents of the CD with the degrees of flexibility you get
from CD Architect.
That said, I will spend some time perusing there again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these things,
like fades between two separate wave files,
I wasn't aware this is possible. I've always thought that was up to the
editor app to do fades. Otherwise why do I have so many mix cds where
they also provide a second cd with all the tracks seperated from each other?
intergap & inter-track spacing,
You can do this with cdrecord (to a limited extent) or [insert favorite
editor] by adding the appropriate amount of silence to the start or end
of each track.
track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take),
I've always worked on the principal that [insert favorite editor] will
one day allow us to set markers and then split the file into seperate
tracks with one command. But if you want to be able to define track
points without splitting the wave I also wasn't aware that is possible.
Although I've seen it done in MD players so maybe cds can too.
track names, I'd certainly be interested.
This is something I have finally found a need to get right. Can someone
explain how to write a TOC file so that cdrecord can make .inf files for
each track?
I have no qualms about writing a file and making seperate tracks in
ardour then using cdrecord via the commandline. I know Paul is working
on incorporating a way of running cdrecord from inside ardour though so
maybe that is the place you should be looking for this functionality?
I can see where an app that can provide all this functionality is useful
but it can be done relatively easily now. Although the splitting tracks
in one go is a WIP.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
2:46 p.m.
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Having worked with CDArchitect, yes, it does include this functionality,
which basically means that there is wave editing of a basic sort included in
the program. You can also adjust volume levels, which means it probably has
dithering algorithms, too, unless there's something within the CD spec I'm
not familiar with. (I don't know, is the volume of a CD totally dependent on
the wave amplitude, or is there some kind of gain control?)
I would be interested in doing anything I can to help the development of a
mastering suite along.
-- Darren
like fades
between two separate wave files,
I wasn't aware this is possible. I've always thought that was up to the
editor app to do fades. Otherwise why do I have so many mix cds where
they also provide a second cd with all the tracks seperated from each
other?
3:33 p.m.
Take a look at Normalize
(http://www1.cs.columbia.edu/~cvaill/normalize/). Handy for setting
volumes across a number of wav files.
Jan
On Tue, 2003-04-08 at 10:56, Mark Knecht wrote:
Patrick,
I think there are, but I haven't found one that seems oriented towards
controlling the contents of the CD with the degrees of flexibility you get
from CD Architect.
That said, I will spend some time perusing there again, or if you want to
point me to one that you think does cover these things, like fades between
two separate wave files, intergap & inter-track spacing, track points
defined within one wave file (used for defining the start of a track inside
of a single long performance, like a live take), track names, I'd certainly
be interested.
Cheers,
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Shirkey [mailto:pshirkey@boosthardware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 8:27 AM
To: Mark Knecht
Cc: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Mastering app
Mark Knecht wrote:
equation? The other
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering tool I cannot find in Linux is something like
"CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and
arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do
fades between
tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show
up on your CD
player LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get
technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful
area to make a
contribution.
I thought there were already a few good cd creation guis for linux.
Worth checking linux-sound.org if you haven't already.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
I've ever done.
Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
The Scotsman
2:09 p.m.
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I use Gcombust, a nice front-end for cdrecord. You can arrange your
tracks however you want, but I'm not sure about the track spacing and
naming. You can easily rename data files but the utility isn't there for
audio tracks. I'd check into cdrecord's details, you may need only write
a GUI for it specialized for audio burns.
Best regards,
== dp
Is anyone
working on the other half of this Mastering equation? The other
tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show up on your CD player LCD,
etc.
I thought there were already a few good cd creation guis for linux.
Worth checking linux-sound.org if you haven't already.
3:29 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 07:43:44 -0700
"Mark Knecht" <mknecht(a)controlnet.com> wrote:
Interesting issue. In fact most of these feature are present in
different apps. E.g. fading can be done in any audio editor, TOC
writing is present in xcdroast (and other cdrecord front-ends, I
guess).
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JID: avp(a)altlinux.org
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang
(now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering equation?
The other
tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD Architect" from
Sonic Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks
and arrange how you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades
between tracks, time the spacing between tracks, add track names
that show up on your CD player LCD, etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get
technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful area to make a
contribution. 
9 Apr
9 Apr
12:58 a.m.
Hello:
I'm coming from win to linux, and I'm very interested about your
comments.
Now, Cd Architect, isn't a plugin; now it have issues like insert plugin
in master fader, normalization of regions with a switch, effects for each
region, two (stereo) channels for mix,... for me is the best what I saw for
making audio cds.
The problem of to do JAM after master of mix is the normalization: what
happens with compression? the best form is with a normalized mix not?
Using L1-ultramaximizer from Waves I have that problem with Vegas, and
changing one instrument in the mix can change the maximum value.
I consider a nascent one in masterization (english too), but I have
something of experience. Regrettably, I'm not a programmer.
I have not proven Ardour, but I guess that Sonic Foundry products do
audio regions which contains peak value (relative to maximum), thus
normalization switch sums to that region this volume value before mixing.
Felipe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Knecht" <mknecht(a)controlnet.com>
To: <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu>du>; "Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: [linux-audio-user] Re: Mastering app
other
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering equation? The tool I cannot find in Linux is something like "CD
Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time
the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show up
on your CD player
LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful area to make a
contribution.
Cheers,
Mark
8:36 a.m.
Its not wuiate that simple, for mastering (not just trying to fill your
dynamic range) you need to take account of perceived volume, not just
amplitude.
This can be done with a A-weight filter and (RMS?) envelope follower.
- Steve
On Tue, Apr 08, 2003 at 10:49:00 -0400, Felipe Sologuren wrote:
Hello:
I'm coming from win to linux, and I'm very interested about your
comments.
Now, Cd Architect, isn't a plugin; now it have issues like insert plugin
in master fader, normalization of regions with a switch, effects for each
region, two (stereo) channels for mix,... for me is the best what I saw for
making audio cds.
The problem of to do JAM after master of mix is the normalization: what
happens with compression? the best form is with a normalized mix not?
Using L1-ultramaximizer from Waves I have that problem with Vegas, and
changing one instrument in the mix can change the maximum value.
I consider a nascent one in masterization (english too), but I have
something of experience. Regrettably, I'm not a programmer.
I have not proven Ardour, but I guess that Sonic Foundry products do
audio regions which contains peak value (relative to maximum), thus
normalization switch sums to that region this volume value before mixing.
Felipe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Knecht" <mknecht(a)controlnet.com>
To: <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu>du>; "Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: [linux-audio-user] Re: Mastering app
other
Is there
anyone else who wants to work on this?
Steve,
I'm still very willing to do comparisons between what Pressgang (now
JAM?) and other tools like those from Waves sound like.
Is anyone working on the other half of this Mastering equation? The tool I cannot find in Linux is something like
"CD Architect" from Sonic
Foundry. This tools lets you take multiple finished tracks and arrange how
you want them on the CD. It allows you to do fades between tracks, time
the
spacing between tracks, add track names that show
up on your CD player
LCD,
etc.
If there's a good GUI programmer out there that wants to get technical
with how CDs get made, this would be a wonderful area to make a
contribution.
Cheers,
Mark
7854
days inactive
7856
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
40 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Darren Landrum -
Dave Phillips -
Emiliano Grilli -
Felipe Sologuren -
Guy Clotilde -
Jan "Evil Twin" Depner -
Jan Depner
-
Jesse Chappell -
Joe Hartley -
Mark Knecht -
Patrick Shirkey -
R Parker -
Steve Harris