21 Sep
2008
21 Sep
'08
4:26 p.m.
Hmmm, the Jack I have here doesn't show any MIDI clients when I check
the MIDI tab. At least, it doesn't show my keyboard. That should be
listed as a client, yes?
--------------------------------
Something I've noticed in the most recent qjacjctl is that there are now tabs for midi
and for alsa connections. The devices that formerly showed up as midi now show as alsa. Is
that possibly the issue?
Also, I tried a new sequencer called non-sequencer which showed up in the midi tab and I
couldn't figure out how to connect any inputs or soft synths as output. This might be
a better question for the non-sequencer group. OTOH, what is the alsa/midi tab
difference?
21 Sep
21 Sep
5:14 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
lau(a)ballen.fastmail.fm wrote:
Hmmm, the Jack I have here doesn't show any MIDI clients when I check
the MIDI tab. At least, it doesn't show my keyboard. That should be
listed as a client, yes? --------------------------------
Something I've noticed in the most recent qjacjctl is that there are
now tabs for midi and for alsa connections. The devices that formerly
showed up as midi now show as alsa. Is that possibly the issue?
Also, I tried a new sequencer called non-sequencer which showed up in
the midi tab and I couldn't figure out how to connect any inputs or
soft synths as output. This might be a better question for the
non-sequencer group. OTOH, what is the alsa/midi tab difference?
Audio tab = jack audio clients and ports;
MIDI tab = jack midi clients and ports (only in qjackctl >= 0.3.x);
ALSA tab = alsa sequencer midi clients and ports (former MIDI tab on
qjackctl <= 0.2.x).
byee
--
rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela
rncbc(a)rncbc.org
22 Sep
22 Sep
5:53 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
Rui Nuno Capela wrote:
Audio tab = jack audio clients and ports;
MIDI tab = jack midi clients and ports (only in qjackctl >= 0.3.x);
ALSA tab = alsa sequencer midi clients and ports (former MIDI tab on
qjackctl <= 0.2.x).
byee
I'm having difficulty understanding what the difference is between jack
midi clients and alsa sequencer midi clients. Could you possibly give me
some examples of which programs will show up as jack clients and which
as alsa sequencer clients ? Does it make a difference to the way one
uses them, or the facilities that jack offers them? In other words, what
is the reason for having separate tabs ? Can one not connect a jack midi
client to an alsa sequencer port then ?
Sorry to be bombarding you with questions, but in the absence of
documentation, it seems to be the only way to get an understanding of jack.
Fritz
6:04 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
Hi,
I'm having difficulty understanding what the
difference is between jack
midi clients and alsa sequencer midi clients.
hehe :) .
ALSA just is a driver layer. Formerly, it has been (ab)used to in- and output
audio as well as MIDI. Which is not the job of a driver IMHO.
JACK has been introduced as a low latency *audio* driver, but it *didn't*
support MIDI. Thus we ran audio via JACK but MIDI via ALSA sequencer.
Weird enough? Yes, it is. So meanwhile JACK finally supports MIDI besides
audio. If you want to, ALSA sequencer MIDI clients are just deprecated.
Sorry to be bombarding
as an organist, I never read the verb "bombarding". Sounds very cool,
though ;-) .
you with questions, but in the absence of
documentation, it seems to be the only way to get an understanding of jack.
Phew, you're damn right. Maybe you'll be the first one who puts the things you
earned into some wiki page for documentation purposes :) .
HTH & best regards,
ce
7:39 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:04:39AM +0200, Christoph Eckert wrote:
Rather ideological and not very informative IMHO.
To understand how all this fits together you need
to know the following.
1. The bottom layer: ALSA audio and ALSA raw midi.
On most (nearly all) linux systems these are the
drivers handling audio and midi devices respectively.
A program can use these directly, but then it is
limited to connecting to hardware devices only.
2. Interconnecting applications and hardware: Jack
and ALSA midi sequencer.
Jack can interconnect audio programs that are written
to use it to each other and to an audio card. To talk
to the audio card Jack uses the ALSA driver in mose cases.
This is what you see in the 'AUDIO' tab in qjackctl.
The ALSA midi sequencer does the same for midi. It can
connect applications to each other and to physical midi
interfaces (raw ALSA ports). This is what you see in the
'ALSA' tab of qjackctl.
3. Jack midi replacing ALSA midi sequencer.
Using the ALSA midi sequencer can be hard (for a programmer)
and also it has had serious problems with timing, mainly
because of lack of high-resolution timer support in Linux
until recent times. This has resulted in the development
of midi-in-Jack, which can (almost) be used as a replacement
for the ALSA midi sequencer. It has its pros and cons. This
is what you see in the 'MIDI' tab in qjackctl.
Currently the two midi routing system coexist, and this
leads to some confusion.
In qjackctl you have three options for midi-in-Jack:
1. 'None' - this means that Jack will not use any ALSA
midi devices. Applications that use midi-in-jack
(e.g. Aeolus) will still show up in the 'MIDI' tab,
but you can't connect them to any physical ALSA midi
ports, only to other apps (if there are any other).
2. 'Raw' - this means that Jack will grab the raw ALSA
(hardware) midi devices, and convert them into Jack
midi ports with rather useless names. The same devices
are still shown in the 'ALSA' tab, but you will notice
you can't connect them there anymore - they are usually
supporting only one client, and Jack has already taken
them. This means that applications that only support
connecting to ALSA midi sequencer can't be connected
to physical midi devices anymore. In the dreams of the
Jack midi developers, such apps will soon cease to exists,
and if that happens the 'raw' option is the normal one to
use.
3. 'Seq' - this means Jack will convert *all* ALSA sequencer
ports into Jack midi ports. The original ones remain
accessible in the 'ALSA' tab.
Now Aeolus has both an ALSA midi sequencer port, and a
midi-in-Jack port. You will see Aeolus in both the 'MIDI'
and 'ALSA' tabs. If you use 'Raw', you will have to
use the Jack connection to connect Aeolus to a keyboard.
If you use 'Seq' you can make the connection in either
system.
Also if you use 'Seq' there will be two Jack-midi ports
for Aeolus: the Jack-midi port that Aeolus creates, and
a Jack-midi copy of the ALSA sequencer port of Aeolus,
shown as system:playback_#, with # some number.
Don't use the latter. What happens if you do that is that
the midi data from your keyboard will follow a rather long
route: Raw ALSA -> Jack port -> Jack port -> ALSA sequencer
-> Aeolus.
The most direct route is still the one in the 'ALSA' tab:
Raw ALSA -> ALSA sequencer -> Aeolus.
Ciao,
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
Wie der Mond heute Nacht aussieht !
Ist es nicht ein seltsames Bild ?
I'm having
difficulty understanding what the difference is between jack
midi clients and alsa sequencer midi clients.
ALSA just is a driver layer. Formerly, it has been (ab)used to in- and output
audio as well as MIDI. Which is not the job of a driver IMHO.
JACK has been introduced as a low latency *audio* driver, but it *didn't*
support MIDI. Thus we ran audio via JACK but MIDI via ALSA sequencer.
Weird enough? Yes, it is. So meanwhile JACK finally supports MIDI besides
audio.
If you want to, ALSA sequencer MIDI clients are just deprecated. 
23 Sep
23 Sep
8:28 a.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
Thank you for the detailed explanation Fons.
I have added it to the FAQ so it doesn't get lost, at:
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/faq/start
I hope that's ok.
Emanuel
1:33 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
Hi,
> ALSA just is a driver layer. Formerly, it has
been (ab)used to in- and
> output audio as well as MIDI.
[...]
Rather ideological and not very informative IMHO.
right, and IMO even confusing. Seems I should better shut up when it's time to
go to bed :) .
Cheers,
ce
4:25 a.m.
New subject: LA-documentation (was: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ)
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 schrieb Christoph Eckert:
Phew, you're damn right. Maybe you'll be the
first one who puts the things
you earned into some wiki page for documentation purposes :) .
Not another one...
*Please* have a look at the documentation wikis/projects for linux audio out
there (especially the ones on *.linuxaudio.org) before creating yet another
one.
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
5:12 a.m.
New subject: LA-documentation
Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 schrieb Christoph
Eckert:
+1
( see also wiki.linuxmusicians.com )
Phew, you're damn right. Maybe you'll be
the first one who puts the things
you earned into some wiki page for documentation purposes :) .
Not another one...
*Please* have a look at the documentation wikis/projects for linux audio out
there (especially the ones on *.linuxaudio.org) before creating yet another
one.
5:49 p.m.
New subject: LA-documentation
Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 schrieb Christoph
Eckert:
I'm a long way from the understanding I would need to write it up, but
Fons' post was a big step. I'll need to ask some more questions. The
last thing I would want to do is fragment the Linux audio info any more
- the current state has made it really difficult to find accurate,
non-outdated info. Every search gives you five answers, all different.
Even the UbuntuStudio wiki which started with great enthusiasm a year or
so ago is now outdated and incorrect. I suppose it's logical that audio
people would rather be creating than documenting, but I think the lack
of an authoritative, reliably up-to-date documentation has made Linux
audio inaccessible to many.
Fritz
Fritz
Phew, you're damn right. Maybe you'll be
the first one who puts the things
you earned into some wiki page for documentation purposes :) .
Not another one...
*Please* have a look at the documentation wikis/projects for linux audio out
there (especially the ones on *.linuxaudio.org) before creating yet another
one.
Arnold 
21 Sep
21 Sep
10:51 p.m.
New subject: Aeolus, synthesized pipe organ
lau(a)ballen.fastmail.fm wrote:
Hmmm, the Jack I have here doesn't show any MIDI clients when I check
the MIDI tab. At least, it doesn't show my keyboard. That should be
listed as a client, yes?
--------------------------------
Something I've noticed in the most recent qjacjctl is that there are
now tabs for midi and for alsa connections. The devices that formerly
showed up as midi now show as alsa. Is that possibly the issue?
Also, I tried a new sequencer called non-sequencer which showed up in
the midi tab and I couldn't figure out how to connect any inputs or
soft synths as output. This might be a better question for the
non-sequencer group. OTOH, what is the alsa/midi tab difference?
Yes, all of my stuff shows up in the ALSA tab. Nothing in MIDI.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
5726
days inactive
5728
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Arnold Krille -
Christoph Eckert -
david -
Emanuel Rumpf -
Fons Adriaensen -
Fritz Meissner -
Grammostola Rosea -
lau＠ballen.fastmail.fm -
Rui Nuno Capela