On Monday 29 September 2003 12:50, Robert Jonsson wrote: I seem to remember something like that for Windows too, but remember that latency that would be more than acceptable for gaming (30-40ms) could make it impossible to jam as you're envisioning. Rob

måndagen den 29 september 2003 19.56 skrev Rob: Well, 30-40ms might be stretching it a bit too far. But theoretically I think it would be possible. Probably not with ADSL or Cable though... First, ping is a roundtrip measurement. I would argue that only the time for the data to travel one way is important, you wouldn't listen to yourself playing over the internet, on the other end the stream would be listened to by the jam-peer ( oh, if there isn't such an entity, can I invent it? can I?) the peer would play her part back over the wire to complete the roundtrip. Let's imagine a theoretical example using audio. Naturally the buffers and soundcard would add to the latency so the buffers would have to be kept short. With buffers at 2x128 the input latency would be about 5.3ms with 48khz sampling frequency, the soundcard would probably add another 2ms. If ping times of 10 ms is possible, which is no big deal if the computers are on the same DMZ, then the net would add half that, 5 ms. Adding these values together, the peer would receive the audio and output it over the speaker after about 5.3 + 2 + 5 + 2 + 5.3 ms = 19.6 ms. Now... the packing of the audio data isn't added. I have no idea how much/little that would add. I imagine the data would be sent with some compressed format and packed in frames, like mp3... 5 ms is a nice round number that might be applicable as the time to pack and schedule new audio data to the network card, the same number might also be applicable for receiving and unpacking it at the jam-peer (tm). This would mean that one way transportation would approximately take 30 ms. Comparing this number to the actual time it takes for sound to travel through air, we find that in 30 ms sound has travelled some whooping 10.3 m. So... the scenario might be comparable to if you and your mate (sorry, jam-peer!) would be standing some 10 meters apart. Probably not ideal, but I think it would be workable. With midi pretty much all the packing/unpacking would be omitted leaving even better possibilities of making it realizable. But then again, who knows until one has tried :) I wonder if ecasound/ogg/shoutcast would be a workable combination if one wishes to try something stupid.... :) ? /Robert

Hi adding my grain of salt in this thread ;) On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:33:45 +0200, Robert Jonsson wrote / a écrit: And we should add that the music will sound totally clear from the computer. If the sound had to really travel 10 m through air, loss and noise will come with it. I agree. I found that larger latencies (100 < latency < 200) are usable for having fun. I mean I have used softsynths on a computer without tuning latency and without beeing root. Although I'm not a programmer, I'd really like to have this tool for playing with distant friends. cheers. GuyCLO~ ----------------------------------------------- #219055 http://counter.li.org ----------------------------------------------- http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Change your Linux PC in a Rythm Station with holborn's GMORGAN: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/GMORGAN/index.html ----------------------------------------------- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. (Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Rob wrote: Add to that the fact that TCP packets don't really care when they arrive or in what order. Not exactly the optimal situation for something realtime. -l[e^2] ------------------------------ http://www.fallingforward.net/ people experimenting with music, art and technology