Am 22.12.2013 04:48, schrieb david: Funny, I did a full dist-upgrade on my debian-sid box yesterday, which /remove/ GDM. But indeed, apt-get informs me before about any new package, as well about any package it wish to remove. So I switch to lightdm before the dist-upgrade. By the way, you should be careful with a "straight upgrade" on debian sid, better do a DIST-UPGRADE, because, for example, library’s could come in new, non-compatible versions, which make it necessary to remove older versions before they get replaced with newer ones (with changed names). When you only do "straight upgrade", you will end up sooner or later in a unstable system state.

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 00:41:07 +0100 Philipp Überbacher <murks(a)tuxfamily.org> wrote: This turned out to be a minor cascade of issues. In the first place I should make the point that I've been using debian exclusively since the days of 'sarge'. My installs all follow the same pattern. I install just the minimum to get a terminal from which I can then install only what I want. I set up an autoloading single user (without admin privs), then pull in just enough of X to be able to run openbox and ROX filer, from then on I build up the audio system I want with (hopefully) the minimum of extraneous crud. I flagged this up here because it was (at that time) fundamentally my music making machine that was borked. As well as hoping for some suggestions as to how it happened I wanted to warn fellow musicians of a possible problem. When I did the upgrade I was somewhat lazy and used synaptic's 'mark all upgrades', with just a cursory glance to check that nothing dramatic was going to happen. At some point in time synaptic itself has gained another, pre-ticked, check box for enabling 'recommends' to be treated as dependencies. Putting a script in the apt directory to stop this action no longer works. Because GDM got installed, my basic start script was completely bypassed, leaving my machine in a totally unfamiliar state. There was no message to say that this was going to happen, and no reason for me to suspect that it might. I have another machine with a fairy similar install so used that to track (and block) exactly the sequence of events. One of the benefits of synaptic over using apt-get or even aptitude is that you can get it to very clearly display just the upgradeable packages, so I did this and one-by-one marked them for upgrade, looking for dependencies. Imagine my astonishment when openbox came up with an apparent dependency of both gnome-session and KDE-session. Gnome-session then had a dependency for GDM and Gnome desktop. To make matters worse, this was Gnome3. Gnome desktop has a dependency on pulse audio (spit). Openbox has absolutely no need for any of this stuff at all. It was an very fast responding and helpful guy on the openbox list who informed me that the debian maintainer had added the Gnome and KDE sessions to the openbox package as 'recommends'. Combined with synaptic (unknown to me) having the box checked for treating recommends as dependencies, the result was inevitable. I've since been informed that the change to the openbox package falls foul of the debian policy document, has been raised on a number of distro lists (but not UCOL) and has now been reverted. P.S. @ Robin Gareus Smug unhelpful side-swipe ... could do better. @ Ralf Mardorf Lots of assumptions there ... most of them wrong. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 11:21:31 +0100 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote: On the other hand, Arch does introduce new dependencies all the time. In general the number of dependencies of any given package seems to increase, and the gnome stuff seems to be rather viral. It gets increasingly harder to run a gnome-free graphical system without going to greater length (modifying and building your own GTK3 without colord, polkit, at-spi2-atk etc.). This got annoying enough for me to get rid of gtk3 altogether, but more and more programs are built against it, which limits my options. In my opinion Arch has left the minimal and KISS ways by blindly adopting everything gnome and red hat releases. Regards, Philipp