30 Oct
2013
30 Oct
'13
10:31 a.m.
Hi folks!,
I'm currently using Linuxsampler for my GIG stuff and I'm wondering if I
should port my samples to SFZ.
This is a very time consuming thing, where Natural Drum Kit (2+G +) is
the most important one. It's very complicated to make a drum kit work as
it should, the hi hats has for example varied degrees of openness, not
only notes and the sample players handle this with the idea of
dimensions. The openness is usually handles by an expression pedal or
modulation wheel when an Hi Hat pedal is not involved.
Speaking about Hi Hat: One SFZ thing Linuxsampler does not handle (at
the moment) is closing the previous samples when you trigger new ones
when you varies the openness of it (in other word: it don't do it when
you're keeping the same note), that mean that you can't play the sample
library as a drummer would. The Linuxsampler devs took away this
functionality early this year from the SVN repo. The (really bad)
solution for now is to make a separate sample library for HHs and spread
the varied openness items to different notes, then every trigging of a
note can mute the previous sample.
Natural Drum Kit is not the only library that have varied HH openness, I
know that ANALOGUE DRUMS also does and i guess that most proffesional
libraries have it.
So my question is: Are someone aware of a decent Gig/SFZ sample player
for Linux that can (or will) handle professional drum samples as
described above?
Thanks,
Jostein
--
Jostein Andersen - +46 73 6785 670
jcamusic.se - facebook.com/jcamusicsweden
josteinandersen.se
30 Oct
30 Oct
1:22 p.m.
Hello,
One trick with hihats on linuxsampler is to handle it differently.
One note will not mute another note.
But, hitting the hihat will trigger multiple openess samples (depending on
how many levels you want). Then the hi hat pedal will fade from one sample
to another.
This can be achevied with current sfz implementation i'm sure.
May you need more info tell me. I will take a look at my notes.
Raphaël
Le 30 oct. 2013 10:31, "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jostein(a)vait.se> a écrit
:
Hi folks!,
I'm currently using Linuxsampler for my GIG stuff and I'm wondering if I
should port my samples to SFZ.
This is a very time consuming thing, where Natural Drum Kit (2+G +) is the
most important one. It's very complicated to make a drum kit work as it
should, the hi hats has for example varied degrees of openness, not only
notes and the sample players handle this with the idea of dimensions. The
openness is usually handles by an expression pedal or modulation wheel when
an Hi Hat pedal is not involved.
Speaking about Hi Hat: One SFZ thing Linuxsampler does not handle (at the
moment) is closing the previous samples when you trigger new ones when you
varies the openness of it (in other word: it don't do it when you're
keeping the same note), that mean that you can't play the sample library as
a drummer would. The Linuxsampler devs took away this functionality early
this year from the SVN repo. The (really bad) solution for now is to make a
separate sample library for HHs and spread the varied openness items to
different notes, then every trigging of a note can mute the previous sample.
Natural Drum Kit is not the only library that have varied HH openness, I
know that ANALOGUE DRUMS also does and i guess that most proffesional
libraries have it.
So my question is: Are someone aware of a decent Gig/SFZ sample player for
Linux that can (or will) handle professional drum samples as described
above?
Thanks,
Jostein
--
Jostein Andersen - +46 73 6785 670
jcamusic.se - facebook.com/jcamusicsweden
josteinandersen.se
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1:35 p.m.
On 10/30/2013 01:22 PM, Raphaël Mouneyres wrote:
Hello,
One trick with hihats on linuxsampler is to handle it differently.
One note will not mute another note.
But, hitting the hihat will trigger multiple openess samples (depending
on how many levels you want). Then the hi hat pedal will fade from one
sample to another.
This can be achevied with current sfz implementation i'm sure.
May you need more info tell me. I will take a look at my notes.
Thanks for answering Raphaël, but I'm not sure if I understand you
right, the sound (interference and many diffrent attack sounds at one
time) and the feel will be wrong if you trigger multiple samples in one
hit. What happens when you gradually lifts up or close the HH (very
common in the real life), then the previous opened samples (while
closing) will still ring.
J.
--
Jostein Andersen - +46 73 6785 670
jcamusic.se - facebook.com/jcamusicsweden
josteinandersen.se
7:17 p.m.
I will post back when i have access to my config with the sfz opcodes, so i
can give you real details.
To make it clearer now : several samples are launched simultaneously but
only one has its volume opened at a time. It is the pedal CC which will
change volumes of different "regions" containing different hihat openess
samples. Some commercial drum samplers use this technique, even if not
always perfect.
Sfz is quite powerfull, and associated with NDK, results are really great.
Raphaël
Le 30 oct. 2013 13:35, "Jostein Chr. Andersen" <jostein(a)vait.se> a écrit
:
On 10/30/2013 01:22 PM, Raphaël Mouneyres wrote:
Hello,
One trick with hihats on linuxsampler is to handle it differently.
One note will not mute another note.
But, hitting the hihat will trigger multiple openess samples (depending
on how many levels you want). Then the hi hat pedal will fade from one
sample to another.
This can be achevied with current sfz implementation i'm sure.
May you need more info tell me. I will take a look at my notes.
Thanks for answering Raphaël, but I'm not sure if I understand you right,
the sound (interference and many diffrent attack sounds at one time) and
the feel will be wrong if you trigger multiple samples in one hit. What
happens when you gradually lifts up or close the HH (very common in the
real life), then the previous opened samples (while closing) will still
ring.
J.
--
Jostein Andersen - +46 73 6785 670
jcamusic.se - facebook.com/jcamusicsweden
josteinandersen.se
3 Nov
3 Nov
6:26 p.m.
hello Jostein,
here are some more information about dealing with hihat openess in sfz format.
First, a simple example with 3 layers : only trigger a sample depending on the pedal
position. No crossfade between samples here.
<group> key=42 locc4=65 hicc4=127 loop_mode=one_shot group=7 off_by=7
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_largeopen.wav volume=+40
...
<group> key=42 locc4=1 hicc4=64 loop_mode=one_shot group=7 off_by=7
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_smallopen.wav volume=+40
...
<group> key=42 locc4=0 hicc4=0 loop_mode=one_shot group=7 off_by=7
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_closed.wav volume=+40
...
Then to go further, i've been reading those two documents :
SFZ specification from cakewalk
http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/article.aspx?aid=108
Linuxsampler SFZ reference
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UxPar5toq2uDrU4Gkf4jOGzV3ic-CAoRPo0cWE6…
To achieve crossfading between sample (as suggested in my previous email), i want to use
the xfin_xx and xfout_xx opcodes. The above example would change to :
<group> key=42 loop_mode=one_shot
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_largeopen.wav volume=+40 xfin_locc4=65 xfin_hicc4=65
xfout_locc4=127 xfout_hicc4=127
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_smallopen.wav volume=+40 xfin_locc4=1 xfin_hicc4=1
xfout_locc4=64 xfout_hicc4=64
<region> sample=Wav/hihat_closed.wav volume=+40 xfin_locc4=0 xfin_hicc4=0
xfout_locc4=0 xfout_hicc4=0
...
Now, one can hear fading from a sample to another when moving the hihat pedal. But if you
hit a closed sample, then release the pedal, you hear the opened hihat tail...not
realistic.
So my idea is to use envelope generator calibrated for each hihat openess sample.
ampeg_xxx opcodes could be usable, but have been deprecated in linuxsampler, replaced by
'eg' opcodes
Once defined for each sample, this envelope can then be modified by the pedal CC using the
following opcodes :
egN_volume_onccX, egN_amplitude_onccX, egN_levelX_onccY
I'm still experimenting a lot with this setup, and i have little time to work on it,
so no complete solution or working guarantees for now, and i'm opened to suggestions.
Feel free to experiment by yourself.
To answer your original question "Are someone aware of a decent Gig/SFZ sample player
for Linux that can (or will) handle professional drum samples as described above?",
I'd say that linuxsampler can absolutely do it, but it needs a lot of programming for
a huge kit like NDK.
I don't own the kit myself, but from what i've read on their website, those who
buy the kit have access to a private forum, where i'm sure someone already has a sfz
file implemented for linuxsampler.
Raphaël
Le 30 oct. 2013 à 13:35, Jostein Chr. Andersen a écrit :
On 10/30/2013 01:22 PM, Raphaël Mouneyres wrote:
Hello,
One trick with hihats on linuxsampler is to handle it differently.
One note will not mute another note.
But, hitting the hihat will trigger multiple openess samples (depending
on how many levels you want). Then the hi hat pedal will fade from one
sample to another.
This can be achevied with current sfz implementation i'm sure.
May you need more info tell me. I will take a look at my notes.
Thanks for answering Raphaël, but I'm not sure if I understand you right, the sound
(interference and many diffrent attack sounds at one time) and the feel will be wrong if
you trigger multiple samples in one hit. What happens when you gradually lifts up or
close the HH (very common in the real life), then the previous opened samples (while
closing) will still ring.
J.
--
Jostein Andersen - +46 73 6785 670
jcamusic.se - facebook.com/jcamusicsweden
josteinandersen.se
5 Nov
5 Nov
1:17 p.m.
On 11/03/2013 06:25 PM, raf wrote:
here are some more information about dealing with
hihat openess in sfz format.
....
So my idea is to use envelope generator calibrated for
each hihat openess sample.
ampeg_xxx opcodes could be usable, but have been deprecated in linuxsampler, replaced by
'eg' opcodes
Once defined for each sample, this envelope can then be modified by the pedal CC using
the following opcodes :
egN_volume_onccX, egN_amplitude_onccX, egN_levelX_onccY
I'm still experimenting a lot with this setup, and i have little time to work on it,
so no complete solution or working guarantees for now, and i'm opened to suggestions.
Feel free to experiment by yourself.
To answer your original question "Are someone aware of a decent Gig/SFZ sample
player for Linux that can (or will) handle professional drum samples as described
above?", I'd say that linuxsampler can absolutely do it, but it needs a lot of
programming for a huge kit like NDK.
I don't own the kit myself, but from what i've read on their website, those who
buy the kit have access to a private forum, where i'm sure someone already has a sfz
file implemented for linuxsampler.
Thanks Raphaël, I will study your information and see if I can figure
this out. Right now (if nothing has changed without me noticing it), the
SFZ format is not the problem, it's the sample players that is the
problem. No wonder that many choose to make dedicated players for their
drum samples!
Jostein
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5 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Jostein Chr. Andersen -
raf -
Raphaël Mouneyres