10 Oct
2012
10 Oct
'12
2:34 p.m.
I'd pose a different question:
Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
If OSX continues to move towards iOS, and Win continues to move towards
Metro, and Thunderbolt stalls, and screens get smaller, and expansion
ports get scarcer, then Linux might become the de-facto "pro" multimedia
platform simply because the other choices have become too dumbed down.
Of course _most_ users will be happy with the ease and power of the
tools that will be available on iOS/Metro. And _most_ users is where
the money is, so Apple/Microsoft are chasing the right users. But there
will be some serious users that need a powerful production system with
big screens and big peripherals, and for these users, Linux might
become the standard.
-Ben
10 Oct
10 Oct
3:39 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Hello Ben!
I'd like to answer your question: Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
In the most general sense my answer would be a no.
It is like being in a process of building a house and looking at your
neighbour who has already built a house and saying - "hm, his building
process seems to be going backward." But I think it is more accurate to say
that his building process simply stopped, because the house is already
complete.
Since day one I have always underlined that I do not think Linux can
technically compete with Windows and Mac OS in that many things.
Freedom is what gives Linux its benefits. But technical superiority is
questionable. It strongly depends on what distro you use, what you do with
it, etc. And even if in theory it can be shown that Windows and Mac OS are
in many ways technically inferior, the number of users hammering at it
surely made it work - not in theory, but in practice.
Windows Audio, as opposed to Linux Audio, has all pieces in place - it has
sequencers, it has tens of thousands of plugins, hundreds of them high
quality, it has software for djs and live performers, just like Linux it
has all sorts of very cool experimental applications, which continue to be
developed and absolutely no problems with hardware.
Mac OSX is even better in the realm of audio. I have many friends who are
professional musicians and who use Mac, I've performed with them and I have
seen great things that Mac Audio can do - it is incredible.
And now, when these platforms have everything a modern musician requires
and, while there is always room for improvement and new ideas, there are
hardly any pressing needs, they can experiment with Metro, with small
screens and with anything they want. They are on a firm base and if needed,
all of it can be expanded to anything you want.
This is my opinion.
Why we stick with Linux? Each has his reasons. Linux is free. Linux surely
has some unique workflows, possibilities and apps.
But to me the problem is that I can do great ambient on Linux, but I have a
difficult time putting together anything else. Doing a house tune, which is
a pleasure on Windows, is a very difficult thing on Linux, I've written
about it many times.
So my dream is to see Linux fulfil the need of a non-experimental
electronic musician.
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Ben Loftis <ben(a)harrisonconsoles.com>wrote;wrote:
I'd pose a different question:
Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
If OSX continues to move towards iOS, and Win continues to move towards
Metro, and Thunderbolt stalls, and screens get smaller, and expansion
ports get scarcer, then Linux might become the de-facto "pro" multimedia
platform simply because the other choices have become too dumbed down.
Of course _most_ users will be happy with the ease and power of the tools
that will be available on iOS/Metro. And _most_ users is where the money
is, so Apple/Microsoft are chasing the right users. But there will be some
serious users that need a powerful production system with big screens and
big peripherals, and for these users, Linux might become the standard.
-Ben
______________________________**_________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user@lists.**linuxaudio.org<Linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org>
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/**listinfo/linux-audio-user<http://lists.lin…
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Hello Ben!
I'd like to answer your question: Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
In the most general sense my answer would be a no.
in the general sense, sure. but Ben wasn't referring to the general sense.
if you're on the "inside" of Apple audio development its clear that their
focus is really shifting away from "creative/professional audio" toward
"consumer audio". i'm talking about the OS infrastructure here, not the
existing apps. now, traditionally, Apple has done an amazing job of
creating technology that manages to serve the needs of both audiences, and
they *may* manage to carry on doing that. but there are few signs from
things going on in both iOS and the latest versions of OS X that this might
not carry on. personally, i'd probably put my money on apple, but there is
a real question what their (infrastructure) focus is going to be in a year
or two.
8:18 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/10/2012 03:54 PM, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com
<mailto:louigi.verona@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello Ben!
I'd like to answer your question: Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
In the most general sense my answer would be a no.
in the general sense, sure. but Ben wasn't referring to the general
sense. if you're on the "inside" of Apple audio development its clear
that their focus is really shifting away from "creative/professional
audio" toward "consumer audio". i'm talking about the OS
infrastructure
here, not the existing apps. now, traditionally, Apple has done an
amazing job of creating technology that manages to serve the needs of
both audiences, and they *may* manage to carry on doing that. but there
are few signs from things going on in both iOS and the latest versions
of OS X that this might not carry on. personally, i'd probably put my
money on apple, but there is a real question what their (infrastructure)
focus is going to be in a year or two.
Didn't Mac start as a platform for mostly the creative world, having a
few percent of the total userbase for Desktop? Is Canonical totally
overlooking the potential of creative software for Linux or doesn't that
potential exist?
\r
8:03 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, October 10, 2012 11:33 pm, Ben Loftis wrote:
I'd pose a different question:
Is OSX/Win Audio moving _backward_?
If OSX continues to move towards iOS, and Win continues to move towards
Metro, and Thunderbolt stalls, and screens get smaller, and expansion
ports get scarcer, then Linux might become the de-facto "pro" multimedia
platform simply because the other choices have become too dumbed down.
Of course _most_ users will be happy with the ease and power of the
tools that will be available on iOS/Metro. And _most_ users is where
the money is, so Apple/Microsoft are chasing the right users. But there
will be some serious users that need a powerful production system with
big screens and big peripherals, and for these users, Linux might
become the standard.
Looking at the recent trade shows it seems that Linux/Unix is the already
the hardware standard. I didn't spot hardware running on Apple or M$ OS's
but plenty of Linux and Unix platforms.
Unfortunately it costs $4000 for a booth here so I probably won't be able
to do any promotions at the next event.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
8:41 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Patrick wrote:
Looking at the recent trade shows it seems that Linux/Unix is the already
the hardware standard. I didn't spot hardware running on Apple or M$ OS's
but plenty of Linux and Unix platforms.
Which trade show was this? I'm unaware of any hardware vendors advertising
or even officially supporting Linux other than RME kinda but their support
seems little more than half-hearted as they apparently don't provide any
support for their drivers which they say on their website are 3rd party so
did they even have any involvement in them at all? Focusrite provide specs
but no Linux drivers or support so I wouldn't count them either.
I know its not audio related but even HP who's support for Linux is
arguably better or at least on a par with their support for the other two
OS still don't advertise or claim to officially support Linux - even though
they do. Sad state of affairs - even now in 2012 when we can all safely say
Linux isn't going away the big corps still like to pretend it doesn't exist.
Back onto LVs article...
He made a number of valid points but I have to agree it was a bit overly
negative. Linux audio has come a long way in the last few years- if still
trailing some way behind commercial offerings in some areas but its
unrealistic to expect otherwise when the big boys have large teams working
full time on development plus some of the apps (Cubase etc.) effectively
pre-date Linux back to the 80's.
Considering Paul is pretty much the only person (OK- 2 with Ben) being paid
to work full time on Linux audio what we have is damn impressive. There are
no genuinely free DAWs for Win or OSX that can compete with Ardour or
qtractor for one and before anyone says so no, REAPER is not free software
and they make a point of reminding you every time you run the unregistered
versions.
A3 MIDI was totally broken and unusable 3 years ago, qtractor has come on
leaps and bounds, Rui has given us an easy to use sampler plugin, DISTRHO
has arrived complete with the excellent Noisemaker LV2, Mixbus, LinuxDSPs
plugins, Bitwig - there was none of this 3 years ago and those are just my
personal highlights.
9:32 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Dan MacDonald wrote:
Back onto LVs article...
He made a number of valid points but I have to agree it was a bit overly
negative.
The way I see it, pleasing Linux users wasn't the point of the article :)
As far as I can tell, most positive changes in the ecosystem come from
a handful of clearly overworked people who are stubborn enough to keep
going, come hell or high water. Is it a sustainable model? Nope.
In that sense nothing really changed. The world is still moving faster
than we do, and thus any progress goes mostly unnoticed. There is no
simple solution to this and there will never be one.
I also don't quite get what's the fun in having another distribution
even if it comes prepackaged will all the latest gizmos. It's still a
Linux distribution with all its dependencies, repositories and
suchlike. Dunno if you noticed, but it's marketplaces and app stores
what's trending today.
Think of what could really make a splash in the wider community of
musicians and then see what we have for that, here and now. That will
be a quite working measure of the progress.
We still live on the street of Cunning Artificers. We got a bit more
cunning, yes indeed, but we haven't become an industry.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
9:52 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
@Folderol:
"While it is nice to have lots of different apps, plugins, whatever, I
think you
find most musicians quickly settle on a very small range which they get to
know
extremely well."
This is true. However, before you settle, you do need to have a choice. And
there is
very little right now.
@Dan:
"He made a number of valid points but I have to agree it was a bit overly
negative. Linux audio has come a long way in the last few years- if still
trailing some way behind commercial offerings in some areas but its
unrealistic to expect otherwise when the big boys have large teams working
full time on development plus some of the apps (Cubase etc.) effectively
pre-date Linux back to the 80's."
You point out the reason why things are as they are. I did not speak about
the reasons, I tried to capture how I see the state of things, independent
of the reasons. Noting that Linux has come a long way and that we cannot
expect hobbyists to do as well as professionals has nothing to do with a
completely independent statement that Linux has few plugins compared not
even to Windows but to some musicians' needs. ;)
I think sometimes it is useful to take such perhaps a slightly negative
look. As long as it is not desperate, this kind of reflection can be useful
to always be realistic about one's achievements or about state of things.
Also, I have a hidden hope that someone disproves my view and shows that in
reality everything is not so bad ;)
10:09 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 6:52 am, Louigi Verona wrote:
@Folderol:
"While it is nice to have lots of different apps, plugins, whatever, I
think you
find most musicians quickly settle on a very small range which they get to
know
extremely well."
This is true. However, before you settle, you do need to have a choice.
And
there is
very little right now.
@Dan:
"He made a number of valid points but I have to agree it was a bit overly
negative. Linux audio has come a long way in the last few years- if still
trailing some way behind commercial offerings in some areas but its
unrealistic to expect otherwise when the big boys have large teams working
full time on development plus some of the apps (Cubase etc.) effectively
pre-date Linux back to the 80's."
You point out the reason why things are as they are. I did not speak about
the reasons, I tried to capture how I see the state of things, independent
of the reasons. Noting that Linux has come a long way and that we cannot
expect hobbyists to do as well as professionals has nothing to do with a
completely independent statement that Linux has few plugins compared not
even to Windows but to some musicians' needs. ;)
I think sometimes it is useful to take such perhaps a slightly negative
look. As long as it is not desperate, this kind of reflection can be
useful
to always be realistic about one's achievements or about state of things.
Also, I have a hidden hope that someone disproves my view and shows that
in
reality everything is not so bad ;)
The problem with that approach is that it tends to feed the negative
attitude towards Linux and that is exactly what the "competition" want. So
by "trashing" the platform to gather informed responses it can do more
harm than good from a marketing and promotional angle. However that method
works very well for Fox and The Register so it's definitely a valid
approach.
After years of trash talk or being ignored what we really need is a
dedicated effort to "bigging up" all the things that can be done.
Which reminds me, if anyone has any tutorials they want to share on the
quicktoots website please send them my way. We get about 500 views a month
on that site at the moment and as it has been online for almost 10 years
that means almost 50,000 people have viewed tutorials on that site. The
toots don't have to be recent or cutting edge. Just useful and informative
:-)
BTW, for the professional companies out there that is 50,000 very
attractive sales prospects that you could have been marketing to for the
past 10 years. So if you are a company and want to increase your sales
potential it makes sense to be providing professional tutorials for
inclusion on the quicktoots site on a regular basis.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10:25 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
@Patrick:
"The problem with that approach is that it tends to feed the negative
attitude towards Linux and that is exactly what the "competition" want."
There is no competition, Patrick. Windows Audio does not compete with
Linux Audio. Only if in our minds. And thus they do not want anything.
There is no Windows Audio community, there is a Linux Audio community.
We try to compete with them. They do not compete with us.
Also, talking positive will not solve things. I see little value in
promoting Linux Audio,
for instance, for my electronic musician friends - I have to honestly tell
them that
making the kind of music they do is not easy on Linux. I like it and I am
doing it,
but I would not advertise Linux Audio as comparable to Windows Audio since
it is
simply not true.
11 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:25 am, Louigi Verona wrote:
@Patrick:
"The problem with that approach is that it tends to feed the negative
attitude towards Linux and that is exactly what the "competition" want."
There is no competition, Patrick. Windows Audio does not compete with
Linux Audio. Only if in our minds. And thus they do not want anything.
There are plenty of competitors to Linux Audio as a platform. AVID is the
most obvious competitor.
There is no Windows Audio community, there is a Linux
Audio community.
We try to compete with them. They do not compete with us.
Look at things from a professional business point of view and try again
please. I'm not talking about Linux Multimedia for amateur users or even
necessarily for artists/producers. I'm talking about businesses that use
Linux as their revenue generating platform.
Also, talking positive will not solve things. I see
little value in
promoting Linux Audio,
for instance, for my electronic musician friends - I have to honestly tell
them that
making the kind of music they do is not easy on Linux.
What kind of music do they make that is so difficult to do on Linux?
Don't you mean that because "insert favorite application/plugin" is not
ported they will have to learn how to do something differently and that is
too much to ask?
If that is the case then they are probably not a good fit for a Linux
desktop experience but I wonder how they managed to get anything done in
the first place if they are averse to learning.
I like it and I am
doing it,
but I would not advertise Linux Audio as comparable to Windows Audio since
it is
simply not true.
And it's a good thing too.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
11:16 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
"I'm not talking about Linux Multimedia for amateur users or even
necessarily for artists/producers. I'm talking about businesses that use
Linux as their revenue generating platform."
Fair enough. I have no idea about businesses.
"Don't you mean that because "insert favorite application/plugin" is
not
ported they will have to learn how to do something differently and that is
too much to ask?"
No, not really.
This is a topic which I have raised many times. I can point you to a couple
of my articles I wrote on the topic, namely these two:
http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux&a=…
http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux&a=…
10:34 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Which reminds me, if anyone has any tutorials they
want to share on the
quicktoots website please send them my way. We get about 500 views a month
on that site at the moment and as it has been online for almost 10 years
that means almost 50,000 people have viewed tutorials on that site. The
toots don't have to be recent or cutting edge. Just useful and informative
:-)
BTW, for the professional companies out there that is 50,000 very
attractive sales prospects that you could have been marketing to for the
past 10 years.
Attractive, are they? Have you been running a web analytics package
that estimates demography of visitors for all these 10 years? How well
can you segment the audience you get? Can you tell what kind of gear
they are using, or if they are mostly musicians or mostly sound
engineers? Would you be able to estimate their income?
Because it's what any company would ask you about to figure out if
they get any good leads.
</bastard-mode>
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
10:26 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Hi Alex!
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Dan MacDonald
wrote:
You're right, it wasn't pandering. LV is stating he's not entirely happy
with the state of Linux audio and he has every right to be. I think there
are very few, if any, people on this list who can honestly say they are
totally content with the state of play - I know I'm not entirely happy yet
but I think I'm a bit more optimistic than Louigi and I think things have
progressed notably, if not hugely, in the last few years.
Louigi wanted feedback and thats what he's getting. Everyones opinion is
valid if its realistic and well reasoned which I'd say all the comments
have been so far - hopefully that includes me! :)
Back onto LVs article...
He made a number of valid points but I have to agree it was a bit overly
negative.
The way I see it, pleasing Linux users wasn't the point of the article :)
suchlike. Dunno if you noticed, but it's
marketplaces and app stores
what's trending today.
Of course, and I don't think the app stores are a patch on the 'Debuntu'
repos in many ways - prob because apt was well established for well over a
decade before app stores became a catchphrase. The amount of dross in the
Play market and in Apples store is staggering - I wouldn't even consider
the majority of whats available from them as real, useful apps - most are
more like installable ads and thinly-veiled spyware. As for commercial
software 'app stores' under desktop Linux, Ubuntu's app store seems to be
doing pretty well although I must confess I've never tried it as I've yet
to hear of any apps I'm interested in buying from it plus I don't run
Ubuntu although I've heard people have got it working in other distros now
too.
Think of what could really make a splash in the wider
community of
musicians and then see what we have for that, here and now. That will
be a quite working measure of the progress.
As Louigi rightly stated, up until now nearly all Linux audio users are
those who are concerned about software freedom and/or have been burned by
Apple or MS so hard they don't want to return to funding the evil empires
rather than than being drawn by the quality of the few apps we have. It
would be nice if in a few years this trend could change so that people are
using Linux to record with because it has become a superior audio
production platform but for that we may need Apple to screw up OSX as hard
as MS have with Windows 8 and more than just Bitwig + a few extra plugins.
To be honest though, I could care less about world domination for Linux.
I'd be happy if it wasn't just outright ignored by hardware manufacturers
and they had the good sense to at least co-operate with the Linux community
but there lies our chicken & egg.
10:30 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
By the way, just to make it clear, I am not totally unhappy. I am here, I
am interested in using Linux Audio
and I do recognize all the little steps. My Linux section is filled with
this recognition.
But looking at the big picture is also useful. And even fun.
10:46 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Dan MacDonald wrote:
Louigi wanted feedback and thats what he's
getting. Everyones opinion is
valid if its realistic and well reasoned which I'd say all the comments have
been so far - hopefully that includes me! :)
It does :)
decade before app stores became a catchphrase. The
amount of dross in the
Play market and in Apples store is staggering - I wouldn't even consider the
majority of whats available from them as real, useful apps - most are more
like installable ads and thinly-veiled spyware.
You know, I was sitting next to a fellow co-worker few days ago who
was, in fact, swearing, because he couldn't find a certain useful
productivity app for the "big" OSX (on a Macbook) which he had on his
iPad. He was actually quite ready to spend $100 on an HDMI adapter and
get himself a display so that he could get his work done.
would be nice if in a few years this trend could
change so that people are
using Linux to record with because it has become a superior audio production
platform but for that we may need Apple to screw up OSX as hard as MS have
with Windows 8 and more than just Bitwig + a few extra plugins.
I really like how willingly people claim that Microsoft screwed
Windows 8. It's not as sales actually started already.
To be honest though, I could care less about world
domination for Linux. I'd
be happy if it wasn't just outright ignored by hardware manufacturers and
they had the good sense to at least co-operate with the Linux community but
there lies our chicken & egg.
No, really? Last thing I heard is that vendors of Firewire audio
devices were quite willing to give specs to FFADO folks and even send
hardware, and it was a shame that there were so few FFADO folks to
make use of those specs.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
20 Oct
20 Oct
8:56 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:46:11AM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Dan MacDonald
wrote:
Yeah, remember Vista. Oh, how quickly people soon forget.
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
would be nice if in a few years this trend could
change so that people are
using Linux to record with because it has become a superior audio production
platform but for that we may need Apple to screw up OSX as hard as MS have
with Windows 8 and more than just Bitwig + a few extra plugins.
I really like how willingly people claim that Microsoft screwed
Windows 8. It's not as sales actually started already.
9:15 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:
Out of curiosity, how is it related?
Or do you mean to say the usual "IT WILL FAIL, BECAUSE I TOLD YOU SO" nonsense?
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
I really like
how willingly people claim that Microsoft screwed
Windows 8. It's not as sales actually started already.
Yeah, remember Vista. Oh, how quickly people soon forget.
9:38 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Out of curiosity, how is it related?
Or do you mean to say the usual "IT WILL FAIL, BECAUSE I TOLD YOU SO"
nonsense?
MS were undoubtedly the king of the computing hill when Vista (and 7) got
released so they could afford to release a turkey back then. Since then,
Android and iOS have took over the mobile world, Linux has gained ground in
many areas, MS has less geek cred and fanbois than ever and Win 8 has
widely been panned by the tech press and by the lesser technically inclined
too - all this when MS really needed something sh*t hot to rescue their
visibly failing empire.
Defend Win8 all you want but I see its release as a Godsend for other OSs -
mainly Apple/iOS but Linux and Android are going to benefit greatly out of
this trainwreck too.
9:59 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Dan MacDonald wrote:
Defend Win8 all you want
You know, I tried to figure out how to best explain you that the world
isn't black and white, and that explaining things doesn't necessarily
mean defending them. Neither questioning points of view does. Because,
you see, questioning opinions is one of the things that makes us truly
human.
If that's a too complicated of an explanation, we can always go back
to "you are an idiot" kind of conversation. Would you like to?
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
10:20 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
This is of course the Linux Audio list - MS bashing is only to be expected.
Most of us ended up here because we are well aware MS are a proven bunch of
criminals who are showing more than ever with Windows 8 that they could
care less about what their users want - even the most die-hard MS fanboys
are struggling to justify the latest Redmond hi-jinx and failings and the
devs are just as unhappy, what with the super-draconian MS app store etc.
I don't want to argue with you Alex as I respect what you do for our
community, just don't try telling a Linux-oriented list that MS are Gods
gift to computing - its just not going to go down well, sorry!
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Dan MacDonald
wrote:
Defend Win8 all you want
You know, I tried to figure out how to best explain you that the world
isn't black and white, and that explaining things doesn't necessarily
mean defending them. Neither questioning points of view does. Because,
you see, questioning opinions is one of the things that makes us truly
human.
If that's a too complicated of an explanation, we can always go back
to "you are an idiot" kind of conversation. Would you like to?
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:36 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/20/2012 10:20 PM, Dan MacDonald wrote:
This is of course the Linux Audio list - MS bashing is
only to be expected.
I joined the LAU list and like the LAO community because there is
usually no bashing whatsoever! The majority of conversations are
educative, objective and insightful. There's lots of valid criticism for
all kind of projects, and of course sometimes discussions get out of
hand, but nothing is gained by bashing - unless you mean /bin/bash :)
2c,
robin
21 Oct
21 Oct
12:05 a.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Sun, October 21, 2012 7:20 am, Dan MacDonald wrote:
This is of course the Linux Audio list - MS bashing is
only to be
expected.
Most of us ended up here because we are well aware MS are a proven bunch
of
criminals who are showing more than ever with Windows 8 that they could
care less about what their users want - even the most die-hard MS fanboys
are struggling to justify the latest Redmond hi-jinx and failings and the
devs are just as unhappy, what with the super-draconian MS app store etc.
I don't want to argue with you Alex as I respect what you do for our
community, just don't try telling a Linux-oriented list that MS are Gods
gift to computing - its just not going to go down well, sorry!
UEFI is the really ugly part of the latest moves by M$ to limit the
progress of open source. Not only does it impose another M$ tax on simply
starting a computer but it is undoubtably spyware and will include a
backdoor for <insert govt/pseudo govt agency here> as well as keylogging
and no doubt remote control too. Effectively an officially sanctioned
rootkit.
It's only because the Linux Foundation has created a pubic key/certificate
that non M$ affiliated distributions will be able to boot on motherboards
that impose UEFI. Thankfully not all mobo manufacturers are dancing to M$
tune so there are a few non UEFI boards in production and if the bad press
for ms8 which IMO is on a level higher than vista continues then it should
be dead in the water.
The howls of pain emitting from the general internet about ms8 are
slightly entertaining.
At least we can be certain that for the next decade M$ will not be able to
squash both Apple and Google to regain their monopoly of the desktop and
given that Android is installed on the majority of mobile devices being
sold these days it shouldn't be long before all sound card manufacturers
provide ALSA drivers too unless they want to miss out on access to the
majority of global customers.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Dan MacDonald
wrote:
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Defend Win8 all you want
You know, I tried to figure out how to best explain you that the world
isn't black and white, and that explaining things doesn't necessarily
mean defending them. Neither questioning points of view does. Because,
you see, questioning opinions is one of the things that makes us truly
human.
If that's a too complicated of an explanation, we can always go back
to "you are an idiot" kind of conversation. Would you like to?
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
11 Oct
11 Oct
10:37 a.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/10/2012 09:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
I also don't quite get what's the fun in
having another distribution
even if it comes prepackaged will all the latest gizmos. It's still a
Linux distribution with all its dependencies, repositories and
suchlike. Dunno if you noticed, but it's marketplaces and app stores
what's trending today.
So, finally the big closed source OS vendors wisened up to a package
management system (an android app is a zip file with a manifest and the
system makes sure it installs nicely and also uninstalls nicely - a
package, even the extension reflects that: APK - Android Package).. The
difference is that package management systems in the open source world...
a] ...also track dependencies
b] ...focus heavily on free software
Point b] is a political one, and not a technical one.
BTW: about the technical superiority of OS X/Windows vs. Linux. I still
can shock most OS X and windows users by demonstrating a period size of
8 samples (0.6ms roundtrip latency at 48khz samplerate) without any
XRuns while at the same time compiling a kernel in the background with
make -j 8 on a -RT kernel..
The perceived superiority is purely one of a software ecosystem.. What I
could do 10-15 years ago on a AMD K6-III with 400 Mhz and Cubase VST 3.4
(or whatever it was back then) just became possible on Linux (the
development of Ardour3, QTractor and closed source software like Renoise
come into my mind).. And by "possible" I mean, not principally possible,
but with a certain level of comfort and polish..
OTOH: If you are more exerimentally minded, then the Linux ecosystem
still has some definite advantages over the more closed systems, simply
for the openness and modularity of the software.. Too bad, Ingen isn't
there yet :( It has so freaking much potential!!
Flo
10:41 a.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/11/2012 10:37 AM, Florian Paul Schmidt wrote:
On 10/10/2012 09:32 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Oh, I forgot a big one:
c] ...mostly do not have a well defined revenue stream process..
Flo
I also don't quite get what's the fun in
having another distribution
even if it comes prepackaged will all the latest gizmos. It's still a
Linux distribution with all its dependencies, repositories and
suchlike. Dunno if you noticed, but it's marketplaces and app stores
what's trending today.
So, finally the big closed source OS vendors wisened up to a package
management system (an android app is a zip file with a manifest and
the system makes sure it installs nicely and also uninstalls nicely -
a package, even the extension reflects that: APK - Android Package)..
The difference is that package management systems in the open source
world...
a] ...also track dependencies
b] ...focus heavily on free software
10 Oct
10 Oct
9:53 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 5:41 am, Dan MacDonald wrote:
Patrick wrote:
"Integrate" is the biggest A/V trade show in Australia. It's just a baby
compared to US or EU offerings though.
Looking at the recent trade shows it seems that Linux/Unix is the
already
the hardware standard. I didn't spot hardware running on Apple or M$
OS's
but plenty of Linux and Unix platforms.
Which trade show was this? I'm unaware of any hardware vendors advertising
or even officially supporting Linux other than RME kinda but their support
seems little more than half-hearted as they apparently don't provide any
support for their drivers which they say on their website are 3rd party so
did they even have any involvement in them at all? Focusrite provide specs
but no Linux drivers or support so I wouldn't count them either.
Just walking around you can see who is using Unix/Linux and who is not.
Granted most of it is embedded or SoC but they are definitely not Apple or
Mac OS's on the clear majority of the hardware solutions. Unfortunately
for us in the proprietary world it's not "cool" to talk about where you
get your firmware/software from so no one is promoting that information.
When it comes to desktop solutions no one is representing Linux at the
trade shows here. Afaik noone is doing anything explicit for Linux
Multimedia solutions at any of the US or EU trade shows either.
Given that there are several companies on these lists who do go to the
trade shows it seems that we are all missing a big opportunity for
promotion of the general platform by not capitalising on the "We heart
Linux" bandwagon.
I know its not audio related but even HP who's
support for Linux is
arguably better or at least on a par with their support for the other two
OS still don't advertise or claim to officially support Linux - even
though
they do. Sad state of affairs - even now in 2012 when we can all safely
say
Linux isn't going away the big corps still like to pretend it doesn't
exist.
Valve just announced that the Linux port for Steam will go live with 15
titles. Intel, AMD and ARM all promote Linux heavily. The entire top level
of the movie industry runs on Linux. Harrison is building Linux Hardware
Solutions. RME provides Linux support or standards compliant devices.
What is missing is a concerted effort to advertise and promote the
advances that have been made. We can't rely on the magazine and mainstream
news media publishers to do it for us as they are clearly not interested.
So we have to do it ourselves which either means paying the publishers for
space or blanketing the web with information. Given that we are unlikely
to crowd fund advertising the latter is more viable. Considering that we
have several thousand LAU people who also just happen to be handy with a
computer and the internet that actually works in our favour.
Marketing companies spend millions of client dollars on SEO and manage to
get a lot done with just a few dedicated people. We have thousands of
users and each one of us can build a website or post links in forums and
social media to the landing pages that we want to promote. Our sites all
link up to each other anyway so it just needs some effort from people
around here to spread the links and evangelise the platform.
Having some killer content won't go amiss either.
Perhaps the professional companies round here have some AV content that
they would like to share more widely for promotional purposes?
We are actually looking for some content we can turn into a show reel. So
if you know of anything that would be suitable please let us know.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10:23 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
What is missing is a concerted effort to advertise and
promote the
advances that have been made. We can't rely on the magazine and mainstream
news media publishers to do it for us as they are clearly not interested.
Are they not? Good gods, what ever happened to genuine interest and
willingness to provide interesting reading? It's amazing SoS actually
published anything all them years back.
Oh wait, could it be that we simply have nothing of interest to them?
Like, you know, "oh, we looked, but it seems like Linux audio isn't
getting anywhere after all, but do let us know if you have anything
worthwhile coming"? ;-)
Or could it be that no one bothered to talk to the media in language
that it understands?
When did anybody last contact industry magazines and suggested to
write a decent overview of e.g. MuseScore that seems to be doing so
well lately, dontcherknow, with all the recent Bach hype and all...?
When did anybody last told editors of any of those very magazines that
he mixed and mastered a shitload of albums with A3 using latest
linuxDSP and Calf plug-ins which coincidentally work so amazingly well
and don't look like they were designed by a monkey on bad crack?
How did it happen that http://audio.tutsplus.com/ republishes same
tired "29 music-making apps for Linux" story over an over again
instead of some new interesting coverage? Why do they still have
"Create a Tutorial, Get Paid!" section on the website, and yet I can't
recall a single tutorial on explaining the basics of creating pads
with Yoshimi or suchlike?
Because, you know, all I hear is that evil media is so very evil. And
for some reason which I can't really explain it sounds a bagload of
excuses to me.
Marketing companies spend millions of client dollars
on SEO and manage to
get a lot done with just a few dedicated people. We have thousands of
users and each one of us can build a website or post links in forums and
social media to the landing pages that we want to promote. Our sites all
link up to each other anyway so it just needs some effort from people
around here to spread the links and evangelise the platform.
Oh for god's sake. Inbound links are the past of search engines marketing.
Besides, what is it exactly that you want to promote? :)
Having some killer content won't go amiss either.
I truly admire your priorities :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
10:50 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:23 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Linux as a platform for Multimedia production. Is that a problem?
If you have something better to offer put it on the table.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
People gave up on bothering years ago when they realised that it was a
pointless battle.
What is missing is a concerted effort to
advertise and promote the
advances that have been made. We can't rely on the magazine and
mainstream
news media publishers to do it for us as they are clearly not
interested.
Are they not? Good gods, what ever happened to genuine interest and
willingness to provide interesting reading? It's amazing SoS actually
published anything all them years back.
Oh wait, could it be that we simply have nothing of interest to them?
Like, you know, "oh, we looked, but it seems like Linux audio isn't
getting anywhere after all, but do let us know if you have anything
worthwhile coming"? ;-)
Or could it be that no one bothered to talk to the media in language
that it understands?
When did anybody last contact industry magazines and suggested to
write a decent overview of e.g. MuseScore that seems to be doing so
well lately, dontcherknow, with all the recent Bach hype and all...?
When did anybody last told editors of any of those very magazines that
he mixed and mastered a shitload of albums with A3 using latest
linuxDSP and Calf plug-ins which coincidentally work so amazingly well
and don't look like they were designed by a monkey on bad crack?
How did it happen that http://audio.tutsplus.com/ republishes same
tired "29 music-making apps for Linux" story over an over again
instead of some new interesting coverage? Why do they still have
"Create a Tutorial, Get Paid!" section on the website, and yet I can't
recall a single tutorial on explaining the basics of creating pads
with Yoshimi or suchlike?
Because, you know, all I hear is that evil media is so very evil. And
for some reason which I can't really explain it sounds a bagload of
excuses to me.
Marketing
companies spend millions of client dollars on SEO and manage
to
get a lot done with just a few dedicated people. We have thousands of
users and each one of us can build a website or post links in forums and
social media to the landing pages that we want to promote. Our sites all
link up to each other anyway so it just needs some effort from people
around here to spread the links and evangelise the platform.
Oh for god's sake. Inbound links are the past of search engines marketing.
Besides, what is it exactly that you want to promote? :)
Having some
killer content won't go amiss either.
I truly admire your priorities :)
11:25 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
OK, I think there's just one way to prove you wrong.
Let me think. Yes, I think it is :)
Since you are in marketing, you should very well know that a landing
page is something that has a call to action button.
What will be the call to action button, Patrick? Where will it lead?
How will you handle "shut up and take my money" impulses?
If you have something better to offer put it on the table.
Publishing awesome inspiring content is what I'd do. In fact it's what
I already do, just in my primary field. Because, you see, I don't
believe in a thousand of people pointing their little fluffy blogs at
a content that few people deeply care about. We've been there already.
It doesn't work all that well.
People want to be inspired. In terms of audio that would be great
composition and arrangement, fat and rich sound, professional mixing
and mastering. Oh, and "I didn't spend half of my lifetime on that"
label. That would get attention. Can you provide that? Will you be
able to support the interest?
See? It's not that I'm against fixing the crap. I'd just hate to see a
lot of efforts spent for no real benefit.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
Because, you
know, all I hear is that evil media is so very evil. And
for some reason which I can't really explain it sounds a bagload of
excuses to me.
People gave up on bothering years ago when they realised that it was a
pointless battle. Besides, what
is it exactly that you want to promote? :)
Linux as a platform for Multimedia production. Is that a problem? Having some killer content won't go amiss either.
I truly admire your priorities :)
11:51 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 8:25 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
If you have something better to offer put it on the table.
Publishing awesome inspiring content is what I'd do. In fact it's what
I already do, just in my primary field. Because, you see, I don't
believe in a thousand of people pointing their little fluffy blogs at
a content that few people deeply care about. We've been there already.
It doesn't work all that well.
It works pretty well and we wouldn't be where we are now without it.
However I disagree that there are any fluffy blogs promoting linux Audio
and multimedia. It might be etter bang for our buck if there were more
fluffy blogs and less serious, intense and intelligent posts being made.
Afaik there are very few people targeting childrens content or popular music.
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
OK, I think there's just one way to prove you wrong.
Let me think. Yes, I think it is :)
Since you are in marketing, you should very well know that a landing
page is something that has a call to action button.
Only if you are seeking to sell a specific product.
Because,
you know, all I hear is that evil media is so very evil. And
for some reason which I can't really explain it sounds a bagload of
excuses to me.
People gave up on bothering years ago when they realised that it was a
pointless battle. Besides,
what is it exactly that you want to promote? :)
Linux as a platform for Multimedia production. Is that a problem? What will be the call to action button, Patrick? Where
will it lead?
How will you handle "shut up and take my money" impulses?
We can provide specific landing pages with that facility. Feel free to
build one if you want to go down that path.
Having some
killer content won't go amiss either.
I truly admire your priorities :) People want to be inspired. In terms of audio that
would be great
composition and arrangement, fat and rich sound, professional mixing
and mastering. Oh, and "I didn't spend half of my lifetime on that"
label. That would get attention. Can you provide that? Will you be
able to support the interest?
We are working on it :-)
See? It's not that I'm against fixing the
crap. I'd just hate to see a
lot of efforts spent for no real benefit.
What are the *only* two forms of marketing?
Mass marketing and Direct marketing.
As a community of people posting information all over the world we can do
both without a large financial investment required by any one person.
It's the kind of spread and resource that big evil corporations are paying
very handsomely for and we have it for free. IMO the only thing stopping
us from maximising it is internal resistance against the possibility that
we might actually have something worthwhile to promote. That is exactly
what the "competition" wants. If we as a community keep believing and
reinforcing the ridiculous notion that we have nothing of value to really
promote or talk about and we are not moving forward or making any
significant progress then we are just fulfilling a negative agenda.
Businesses want to see a serious sales prospect when they back a product.
They need to know that backing a Linux port is going to make them money.
Just like BMW saying they intend to make money from their new electric car
range, AV companies want to be confident when they say they intend to make
money from their Linux range. Just like General Electric building the
biggest Solar PV installation in Australia, Harrison consoles is committed
to Linux as a platform because it is a good business solution.
Linux Audio is a robust, low latency and scaleable alternative. Nothing
more or less. It just needs better promotion so that businesses that are
sitting on the fence can feel the confidence to make their play. If we
have more businesses using and promoting Linux as a platform for
multimedia production we will get more users and producers.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
11 Oct
11 Oct
12:53 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Let me put it this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
And where are we exactly? Lemme see. We get this kind of discussions
every third month or so. Is that a sure sign that we are anywhere? :)
Since you are
in marketing, you should very well know that a landing
page is something that has a call to action button.
Only if you are seeking to sell a specific product.
What will be the call to action button, Patrick?
Where will it lead?
How will you handle "shut up and take my money" impulses?
We can provide specific landing pages with that facility. Feel free to
build one if you want to go down that path. Publishing
awesome inspiring content is what I'd do. In fact it's what
I already do, just in my primary field. Because, you see, I don't
believe in a thousand of people pointing their little fluffy blogs at
a content that few people deeply care about. We've been there already.
It doesn't work all that well.
It works pretty well and we wouldn't be where we are now without it. As a community of people posting information all over
the world we can do
both without a large financial investment required by any one person.
It's the kind of spread and resource that big evil corporations are paying
very handsomely for and we have it for free.
We don't have it for free :) For instance, the time I'm spending on
this discussion I could be spending on fleshing out another post in
the Showroom section at LGW. And the time I'll spend on fleshing out
that post I could spend on a commissioned project that I won't take,
because there are only 24 hours a day. See? :)
(And the reason Dave hasn't posted anything in this thread is probably
because he's writing another post for some Linux magazine or teaches
someone playing instruments for money as we speak, so he's sure wiser
than me :))
Everything comes at a cost, one way or another.
IMO the only thing stopping
us from maximising it is internal resistance against the possibility that
we might actually have something worthwhile to promote. That is exactly
what the "competition" wants.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by placing the word "competition"
into quotes, but we are nowhere near to compete (with few exceptions).
Hence thinking in terms of competition at this point is simply
ridiculous. Sorry, but I had to say that.
If we as a community keep believing and
reinforcing the ridiculous notion that we have nothing of value to really
promote or talk about and we are not moving forward or making any
significant progress then we are just fulfilling a negative agenda.
Jeez, Patrick, it's not about us believing or not. It's about being
able to show a professional-quality record here and now. And to show
that producing it doesn't take any longer than producing it on Mac or
Windows with proprietary software.
The first question you get when you mention Ardour in a professional
community is "OK, can you show me who's using it and what they do with
it?" I like that you are trying to meet that demand, but I'm not sure
that it's going to work the way you want it to.
So all I'm asking you in this case is a bit of an internal quality
filter when you upload stuff.
Businesses want to see a serious sales prospect when
they back a product.
They need to know that backing a Linux port is going to make them money.
And for that they need to know how many people are capable of paying
for the software. Which doesn't quite equal to the amount of musicians
who use Linux.
Probably I will never know what made MOTU so angry about Linux, but
I'm quite prepared to believe that some fanatics had called them a big
evil corporation, because they didn't see a market in Linux at the
time. And seeing how often this kind of characteristic turns up even
here, I'd say that part of the community needs a DNA fix.
Linux Audio is a robust, low latency and scaleable
alternative. Nothing
more or less. It just needs better promotion so that businesses that are
sitting on the fence can feel the confidence to make their play. If we
have more businesses using and promoting Linux as a platform for
multimedia production we will get more users and producers.
That I have no doubt in :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
1:21 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 9:53 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
And where are we exactly? Lemme see. We get this kind of discussions
every third month or so. Is that a sure sign that we are anywhere? :)
It's an ongoing discussion. So is Linux Kernel development. Are you
implying that kernel development is stalled too?
Did anyone pay you for your time? How much income are you relinquishing by
taking part in this discussion? Perhaps you are actually investing your
time and resources so you can get a payback at a later date.
Speak for yourself. As a community Linux Audio has been competing for the
past 15-20 years.
We already have that. The number of people releasing work done with Linux
Multimedia tools is constantly expanding. Almost all major motion pictures
are made with Linux these days. I've heard music on the BBC that was made
with Linux Audio tools. We have several audio and multimedia companies
that are very publicly making money from Linux software and hardware
running the Linux platform.
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Let me put it this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
I don't see how you get to that conclusion.
Since you
are in marketing, you should very well know that a landing
page is something that has a call to action button.
Only if you are seeking to sell a specific product.
What will be the call to action button, Patrick?
Where will it lead?
How will you handle "shut up and take my money" impulses?
We can provide specific landing pages with that facility. Feel free to
build one if you want to go down that path. Publishing awesome inspiring content is what I'd
do. In fact it's what
I already do, just in my primary field. Because, you see, I don't
believe in a thousand of people pointing their little fluffy blogs at
a content that few people deeply care about. We've been there already.
It doesn't work all that well.
It works pretty well and we wouldn't be where we are now without it. As a community
of people posting information all over the world we can
do
both without a large financial investment required by any one person.
It's the kind of spread and resource that big evil corporations are
paying
very handsomely for and we have it for free.
We don't have it for free :) For instance, the time I'm spending on
this discussion I could be spending on fleshing out another post in
the Showroom section at LGW. And the time I'll spend on fleshing out
that post I could spend on a commissioned project that I won't take,
because there are only 24 hours a day. See? :)
(And the reason Dave hasn't posted anything in this thread is probably
because he's writing another post for some Linux magazine or teaches
someone playing instruments for money as we speak, so he's sure wiser
than me :))
Everything comes at a cost, one way or another.
IMO the only
thing stopping
us from maximising it is internal resistance against the possibility
that
we might actually have something worthwhile to promote. That is exactly
what the "competition" wants.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by placing the word "competition"
into quotes, but we are nowhere near to compete (with few exceptions).
Hence thinking in terms of competition at this point
is simply
ridiculous. Sorry, but I had to say that.
You have a very closed view of the community if you think that a few
people making some music in their spare time represents the Linux Audio
Community.
If we as a
community keep believing and
reinforcing the ridiculous notion that we have nothing of value to
really
promote or talk about and we are not moving forward or making any
significant progress then we are just fulfilling a negative agenda.
Jeez, Patrick, it's not about us believing or not. It's about being
able to show a professional-quality record here and now. And to show
that producing it doesn't take any longer than producing it on Mac or
Windows with proprietary software.
The first question you get when you mention Ardour in
a professional
community is "OK, can you show me who's using it and what they do with
it?" I like that you are trying to meet that demand, but I'm not sure
that it's going to work the way you want it to.
The questions I have received are
- q. What are the physical limitations ? a. very few.
- q. Does it support VST ? a. yes.
- q. What are Pauls rates for custom work and is he available ? a. I'll
ask him, he's generally a very responsive :-)
- q. Is Ardour the right solution for our goal? a. Maybe, what is it you
are tying to achieve?
So all I'm asking you in this case is a bit of an
internal quality
filter when you upload stuff.
Most likely they got bribed more money not to release their drivers and
support Linux than they expected to received from sales. Of course this
just works in RME's favour so MOTU loose out in the long run by looking
like dicks to the global Linux Community which numbers in the millions and
loosing customers to RME as everyone knows that RME products are high
quality and tend to work very well on Linux.
They also loose out on the association with Linux as a high end solution
which may not matter to their core market but definitely matters to the
Linux market.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Businesses want to see a serious sales prospect
when they back a
product.
They need to know that backing a Linux port is going to make them money.
And for that they need to know how many people are capable of paying
for the software. Which doesn't quite equal to the amount of musicians
who use Linux.
Probably I will never know what made MOTU so angry about Linux, but
I'm quite prepared to believe that some fanatics had called them a big
evil corporation, because they didn't see a market in Linux at the
time. And seeing how often this kind of characteristic turns up even
here, I'd say that part of the community needs a DNA fix.
2:11 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Because so far I've seen no trace of mentioning an interaction with visitors.
Hence let me repeat my question: what's my next step?
It's an ongoing discussion. So is Linux Kernel development. Are you
implying that kernel development is stalled too?
Oh, we were getting along so well, and now you are using clumsy
analogies. There is no doubt that the Linux kernel is doing well on
servers and mobile devices. It has strong niches. What's the strong
niche for Linux audio in terms of actual installations?
Of course. Don't *you* get a paycheck for a work that needs time to be done?
...and losing? :)
Let's talk in absolute numbers. How many albums have been produced,
mixed and mastered entirely with free software in the last 12 months?
How many of them are available via iTunes or even Magnatune?
What about soundtracks for BF's open movies? How did it happen that
neither Jan Morgenstern nor Joram Letwory are using Linux?
Stop right there :)
I'm not questioning the availability of the records per se. Once
again, I'm talking about _professional-grade_ recordings. Any kid who
got himself Mixbus can export directly to soundcloud. Good for him.
Will it stand a test by Bob Katz? Think again.
Yes, I know there are few studios that use Ardour. I've seen pictures
at http://ardour.org/node/3248 (incidentally, what ever happened of
MIS and Ron Parker?). How do I find those studios? How do I listen to
what they do with free software?
Paraphrasing Linus, talk is cheap, play me a record :)
-q. Will any of my VSTs run? a. it depends -- thanks, but no, thanks.
Oh, LOL. Conspiracy theories, how I missed you.
Let me put it
this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
I don't see how you get to that conclusion. It works pretty well and we wouldn't be where we
are now without it.
And where are we exactly? Lemme see. We get this kind of discussions
every third month or so. Is that a sure sign that we are anywhere? :) Everything
comes at a cost, one way or another.
Did anyone pay you for your time? How much income are you relinquishing by
taking part in this discussion?
A certain amount.
Perhaps you are actually investing your
time and resources so you can get a payback at a later date.
Anything's possible.
I'm not
sure what exactly you mean by placing the word "competition"
into quotes, but we are nowhere near to compete (with few exceptions).
Speak for yourself. As a community Linux Audio has been competing for the
past 15-20 years. You have a very closed view of the community if you
think that a few
people making some music in their spare time represents the Linux Audio
Community.
I'm not sure how you came at this conclusion, so I couldn't possibly
comment on that.
Jeez, Patrick,
it's not about us believing or not. It's about being
able to show a professional-quality record here and now. And to show
that producing it doesn't take any longer than producing it on Mac or
Windows with proprietary software.
We already have that. The number of people releasing work done with Linux
Multimedia tools is constantly expanding. Almost all major motion pictures are made with Linux
these days.
How does it relate to Linux audio?
I've heard music on the BBC that was made with
Linux Audio tools.
How do I verify that?
We have several audio and multimedia companies
that are very publicly making money from Linux software and hardware
running the Linux platform.
Several against just how many?
The first
question you get when you mention Ardour in a professional
community is "OK, can you show me who's using it and what they do with
it?" I like that you are trying to meet that demand, but I'm not sure
that it's going to work the way you want it to.
The questions I have received are
- q. What are the physical limitations ? a. very few.
- q. Does it support VST ? a. yes. - q. What are Pauls rates for custom work and is he
available ? a. I'll
ask him, he's generally a very responsive :-)
- q. Is Ardour the right solution for our goal? a. Maybe, what is it you
are tying to achieve?
Judging by the questions, you spoke to 3 persons, neither of which
cared about support for his hardware :)
OK, granted, the VST question is the usual one. But not the others :)
Probably I
will never know what made MOTU so angry about Linux, but
I'm quite prepared to believe that some fanatics had called them a big
evil corporation, because they didn't see a market in Linux at the
time. And seeing how often this kind of characteristic turns up even
here, I'd say that part of the community needs a DNA fix.
Most likely they got bribed more money not to release their drivers and
support Linux than they expected to received from sales. Of course this
just works in RME's favour so MOTU loose out in the long run by looking
like dicks to the global Linux Community which numbers in the millions and
loosing customers to RME as everyone knows that RME products are high
quality and tend to work very well on Linux.
You know, when I published the interview with FFADO and ALSA folks, I
actually did a bit of research and plotted a chart from publicly
available stats. Since you obviously have no idea, I suggest you just
look at the numbers yourself:
http://www.ffado.org/?q=usage/overtime
Ye gods, over last 8 years (or so) MOTU lost whole 4K users out of
those millions? What a horrible, unspeakable waste! :)
</sarcasm>
They also loose out on the association with Linux as a
high end solution
which may not matter to their core market but definitely matters to the
Linux market.
In other words, they lose on the association with a platform that a
handful of people consider to be a platform for producing music
professionally. Which is what their primary business is. Ts ts.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
3:01 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 11:11 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
It's an ongoing discussion. So is Linux Kernel development. Are you
implying that kernel development is stalled too?
Oh, we were getting along so well, and now you are using clumsy
analogies. There is no doubt that the Linux kernel is doing well on
servers and mobile devices. It has strong niches. What's the strong
niche for Linux audio in terms of actual installations?
Of course. Don't *you* get a paycheck for a work that needs time to be
done?
Not always. In fact these days a significant amount of my hours are not
paid for when I invoice. that is just the state of the global economy.
If you are not participating because you see a potential ROI then you must
be in a position where you can waste your time.
...and losing? :)
What exactly are we loosing? We are growing the community of users,
developers and producers. People are making more money now than ever even
in this shithouse economy.
Stop right there :)
I'm not questioning the availability of the records per se. Once
again, I'm talking about _professional-grade_ recordings. Any kid who
got himself Mixbus can export directly to soundcloud. Good for him.
Will it stand a test by Bob Katz? Think again.
How many m$ and mac users are using their software to study the radio
frequency spectral domain throughout the universe or locate deep sea oil
and gas fields? How many medical researchers rely on Linux for advanced
cutting edge radio frequency measurement tools? How many businesses are
using Linux Audio Software for online streaming and broadcasting? How many
people are using Linux Audio tools to do high quality remastering and
audio restoration?
Making records to sell on itunes is a small part of the audio and
multimedia production industry.
Listen to the BBC.
Doesn't matter how many companies don't use Linux. It's the fact that
there are companies already making money from it that counts.
-q. Will any of my VSTs run? a. it depends -- thanks, but no, thanks.
These are the questions that come up for me from professional audio
companies when we discuss Ardour.
Lets read the numbers again and see if that is really such a small market.
A market with very little promotion and a small core of dedicated
individuals and businesses that have taken it this far already. A market
with an expanding community and burgeoning global awareness. A market
that can be built on a platform of the highest quality tools and software.
A market with a lot of room for growth. A platform that has been embraced
by the Film, Gaming, Scientific and Research industries.
What makes the Audio industry so special that it can ignore the direction
that other industries are moving?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:21 AM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Because so far I've seen no trace of mentioning an interaction with
visitors.
Hence let me repeat my question: what's my next step?
We can make as many landing pages with a specific call to action that we
want. We can also just link directly to the content and information or
software that we want to promote. What do you want to promote? Choose a
subject and make a landing page, a video, a tutorial, whatever you want.
Let me
put it this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
I don't see how you get to that conclusion. It works
pretty well and we wouldn't be where we are now without it.
And where are we exactly? Lemme see. We get this kind of discussions
every third month or so. Is that a sure sign that we are anywhere? :)
Everything comes at a cost, one way or another.
Did anyone pay you for your time? How much
income are you relinquishing by
taking part in this discussion?
A certain amount.
Perhaps you are actually investing your
time and resources so you can get a payback at a later date.
Anything's possible.
I'm not sure what exactly you mean by placing the
word "competition"
into quotes, but we are nowhere near to compete (with few exceptions).
Speak for yourself. As a community Linux Audio has been competing for
the
past 15-20 years. Let's talk in absolute numbers. How many albums
have been produced,
mixed and mastered entirely with free software in the last 12 months?
How many of them are available via iTunes or even Magnatune?
I couldn't say. How about asking how many people are making an income from
using Linux as a production platform? Compare that to 5 years ago and then
10 years?
What about soundtracks for BF's open movies? How
did it happen that
neither Jan Morgenstern nor Joram Letwory are using Linux?
The Blender guys have their own motives. Ton obviously gets on with his
sound guys and that makes his work more enjoyable. Also they are literally
just down the road from each other. Blender runs on all platforms. They
make no claims to support Linux. In fact the majority of Blender users are
run M$. It's certainly a very powerful open source tool but it is not the
only way to produce video with linux. I don't know why more people aren't
using xjadeo, kdenlive or LiVES. Lots of people seem to be productive with
avsynth too.
You have a
very closed view of the community if you think that a few
people making some music in their spare time represents the Linux Audio
Community.
I'm not sure how you came at this conclusion, so I couldn't possibly
comment on that.
Jeez,
Patrick, it's not about us believing or not. It's about being
able to show a professional-quality record here and now. And to show
that producing it doesn't take any longer than producing it on Mac or
Windows with proprietary software.
We already have that. The number of people releasing work done with
Linux
Multimedia tools is constantly expanding. Yes, I know there are few studios that use Ardour.
I've seen pictures
at http://ardour.org/node/3248 (incidentally, what ever happened of
MIS and Ron Parker?). How do I find those studios? How do I listen to
what they do with free software?
Paraphrasing Linus, talk is cheap, play me a record :)
If they can make the movies on Linux then there is no reason they cannot
make the sound tracks too.
Almost all major motion pictures are made with
Linux these days.
How does it relate to Linux audio?
I've heard
music on the BBC that was made with Linux Audio tools.
How do I verify that?
We have
several audio and multimedia companies
that are very publicly making money from Linux software and hardware
running the Linux platform.
Several against just how many?
The first question you get when you mention Ardour in
a professional
community is "OK, can you show me who's using it and what they do with
it?" I like that you are trying to meet that demand, but I'm not sure
that it's going to work the way you want it to.
The questions I have received are
- q. What are the physical limitations ? a. very few.
- q. Does it support VST ? a. yes. - q. What are Pauls rates for custom work and is
he available ? a. I'll
ask him, he's generally a very responsive :-)
- q. Is Ardour the right solution for our goal? a. Maybe, what is it
you
are tying to achieve?
Judging by the questions, you spoke to 3 persons, neither of which
cared about support for his hardware :)
OK, granted, the VST question is the usual one. But
not the others :)
Oh, LOL. Conspiracy theories, how I missed you.
How many people do you think actually own MOTU Devices? They target
professional industry not consumer hobbyists. 4000 professional
installations would be a reasonable share of the global market for their
products in the AV production industry. Nothing to be sniffed at. MOTU is
not Behringer. They target high end users not the entire mass market.
if each device brings in $1000 profit that is $4million in profit. Again
nothing to be ashamed of. What is Motu's market capital anyway? Do they
make more than $10 million a year in profit?
Lets say a company is aiming for $1 million in profit at $100 per sale.
That requires 10,000 users. Going by your stats above that means just by
targeting the market for firewire devices on Linux (a fraction of the
actual market base) they can potentially get to $400,000 in profit.
Probably
I will never know what made MOTU so angry about Linux, but
I'm quite prepared to believe that some fanatics had called them a big
evil corporation, because they didn't see a market in Linux at the
time. And seeing how often this kind of characteristic turns up even
here, I'd say that part of the community needs a DNA fix.
Most likely they got bribed more money not to release their drivers and
support Linux than they expected to received from sales. Of course this
just works in RME's favour so MOTU loose out in the long run by looking
like dicks to the global Linux Community which numbers in the millions
and
loosing customers to RME as everyone knows that RME products are high
quality and tend to work very well on Linux.
You know, when I published the interview with FFADO and ALSA folks, I
actually did a bit of research and plotted a chart from publicly
available stats. Since you obviously have no idea, I suggest you just
look at the numbers yourself:
http://www.ffado.org/?q=usage/overtime
Ye gods, over last 8 years (or so) MOTU lost whole 4K users out of
those millions? What a horrible, unspeakable waste! :)
</sarcasm>
They also
loose out on the association with Linux as a high end solution
which may not matter to their core market but definitely matters to the
Linux market.
In other words, they lose on the association with a platform that a
handful of people consider to be a platform for producing music
professionally. Which is what their primary business is. Ts ts.
3:11 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
wrote:
What makes the Audio industry so special that it can ignore the direction
that other industries are moving?
hmm. things move in many directions at once.
arguably the biggest shift in income-based-on-selling-software in the last
several years has come from the iOS app model. its true that the embedded
markets and selling to professional users have the potential for moderate
size revenue if you can offer the products/functionality that are needed.
but one could easily argue that the direction other industries are moving
right now is "to the tablet". check the emergence of ipad-based "cash
registers" for example.
clearly, that's not the only direction things are moving in. but the point
is that there is no single direction.
3:29 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 12:11 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
No doubt about that but tablets suffer from cooling and energy issues that
have been solved for many years on desktop and server solutions. Also a
single 64 core machine is going to outperform a render farm of 64 tablets
both on price and efficiency.
Not as portable but portability is not usually a core requirement for
production systems.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
wrote:
What makes the Audio industry so special that it can ignore the
direction
that other industries are moving?
hmm. things move in many directions at once.
arguably the biggest shift in income-based-on-selling-software in the last
several years has come from the iOS app model. its true that the embedded
markets and selling to professional users have the potential for moderate
size revenue if you can offer the products/functionality that are needed.
but one could easily argue that the direction other industries are moving
right now is "to the tablet". check the emergence of ipad-based "cash
registers" for example.
clearly, that's not the only direction things are moving in. but the point
is that there is no single direction.
4:18 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
wrote:
[ ... me talking about tablets .. ]
No doubt about that but tablets suffer from cooling
and energy issues that
have been solved for many years on desktop and server solutions. Also a
single 64 core machine is going to outperform a render farm of 64 tablets
both on price and efficiency.
Not as portable but portability is not usually a core requirement for
production systems.
sure, but this is not relevant to your question: "What makes the Audio
industry so special that it can ignore the direction that other industries
are moving?"
the problem is that the question is ill-formed. there is no single
direction that other industries are moving in. various companies clearly
think that the tablet has an important role to play in future audio
technology. are they wrong? that question is also ill-formed. you asked
your question no doubt because you perceive many different industries
"adopting" linux in various ways. this is just one of many directions that
many different industries are moving, and they are not all moving in all of
them. the audio tech industry, like the rest, will pick and choose.
"adoption of linux" is not written in stone, or even on paper, no more than
"adoption of iOS tablets" is.
4:37 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 1:18 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:29 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
Writing off the Linux Audio platform because some companies are making
money out of the tablet boom is a poor decision. It is inevitable that the
Linux desktop is going to run natively on mobile hardware. Look at the
progress that GTK3 and QT developers are making. ARM support has just been
streamlined for the new 3.6 kernel. AMD's HSA platform and Intels medfield
both support Linux and x86 natively.
Sure Android and iOS have a headstart on market penetration but that is
going to change rapidly.
While the rest of the high end multimedia and graphics world has embraced
Linux it seems the audio industry is still catching up.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
wrote:
[ ... me talking about tablets .. ]
No doubt about that but tablets suffer from
cooling and energy issues
that
have been solved for many years on desktop and server solutions. Also a
single 64 core machine is going to outperform a render farm of 64
tablets
both on price and efficiency.
Not as portable but portability is not usually a core requirement for
production systems.
sure, but this is not relevant to your question: "What makes the Audio
industry so special that it can ignore the direction that other industries
are moving?"
the problem is that the question is ill-formed. there is no single
direction that other industries are moving in. various companies clearly
think that the tablet has an important role to play in future audio
technology. are they wrong? that question is also ill-formed. you asked
your question no doubt because you perceive many different industries
"adopting" linux in various ways. this is just one of many directions that
many different industries are moving, and they are not all moving in all
of
them. the audio tech industry, like the rest, will pick and choose.
"adoption of linux" is not written in stone, or even on paper, no more
than
"adoption of iOS tablets" is.
4:44 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Patrick Shirkey <
pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Writing off the Linux Audio platform because some companies are making
FFS! way to ignore the point. I wasn't writing off ANY part of the Linux
Audio platform.
You wrote: "What makes the Audio industry so special that it can ignore the
direction that other industries are moving?"
I was pointing out that there is no unitary direction that other industries
are moving in. Challenging "the audio industry" in this way makes no sense.
This has nothing to do with writing off or criticizing any part of the
linux audio world.
5:14 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 1:44 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Patrick Shirkey
<
pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
I wasn't meaning you. No one questions your commitment to Linux Audio.
Simply that companies who expect to make their income from tablets and
mobile but write off Linux are being short sighted. I could have been more
specific on that point.
Given the very real increase in adoption of Linux across the globe and the
inevitability of Linux and x86 on the mobile form factor it makes more
sense for audio companies to be early adopters. We know for a fact that
the early adopters in the mobile world are going to have a better chance
of earning the dollars than the ones who are late to the party.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Writing off the Linux Audio platform because some companies are making
FFS! way to ignore the point. I wasn't writing off ANY part of the Linux
Audio platform.
You wrote: "What makes the Audio industry so special that it can ignore
the
direction that other industries are moving?"
I was pointing out that there is no unitary direction that other
industries
are moving in. Challenging "the audio industry" in this way makes no
sense.
This has nothing to do with writing off or criticizing any part of the
linux audio world.
7:25 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Given the very real increase in adoption of Linux
across the globe and the
inevitability of Linux and x86 on the mobile form factor it makes more
sense for audio companies to be early adopters. We know for a fact that
the early adopters in the mobile world are going to have a better chance
of earning the dollars than the ones who are late to the party.
I'm a lurker and not qualified to comment at the level of others in
this thread, but this statement just gives me pause (at my level of
ignorance).
Random list of early adopters of various sorts in the related
smartphone/tablet category:-
1. Palm (where've they gone?)
2. HP + Microsoft (oops)
3. Blackberry (still alive, though)
Early adoption has its benefits. And its risks. Not really a
set-in-stone fact, AFAICT.
9:27 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
When I started with music, I was using trackers. The tracking scene was
non-commercial and any attempt to commercialize anything was met with
contempt. Whether this is a good thing or bad is a different story.
Anyway, if I wanted to explain to people how good trackers were, I could
show them literally dozens and dozens of unimaginably good music. And
people would admire trackers and many would get hooked up, in spite of
the interface which looks more like a spreadsheet.
And the tracking scene was huge.
So I would like to underline what Alexandre says. When we speak of Linux
Audio, I must admit that I do not have much material to show off.
At the same time a relatively simple, but well produced tune I made with
LMMS
is one of my most watched YouTube videos. Does it interest people in LMMS?
You bet.
So, it comes down to very simple things - do cool music and inspire people
to try
the same.
Is there a reason there is not that much music to show off? Is this a
technical
reason? Something else?
10:12 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 6:27 pm, Louigi Verona wrote:
When I started with music, I was using trackers. The
tracking scene was
non-commercial and any attempt to commercialize anything was met with
contempt. Whether this is a good thing or bad is a different story.
Anyway, if I wanted to explain to people how good trackers were, I could
show them literally dozens and dozens of unimaginably good music. And
people would admire trackers and many would get hooked up, in spite of
the interface which looks more like a spreadsheet.
And the tracking scene was huge.
So I would like to underline what Alexandre says. When we speak of Linux
Audio, I must admit that I do not have much material to show off.
At the same time a relatively simple, but well produced tune I made with
LMMS
is one of my most watched YouTube videos. Does it interest people in LMMS?
You bet.
So, it comes down to very simple things - do cool music and inspire people
to try
the same.
Is there a reason there is not that much music to show off? Is this a
technical
reason? Something else?
I don't get this, there's plenty of music out there. Something for
everyone's tastes. We are not missing quantity or production quality.
http://lam.fugal.net/
http://soundcloud.com/groups/linux
http://bandcamp.com/tag/linux?artist=1485551842
What we are missing is cocky, self indulgent, drug taking, sex addicted,
rock stars who preach to their audience that Linux is the reason they get
laid and make bucket loads of cash money.
Look at music videos and you will see a theme repeated constantly. If we
want Linux Audio to get a larger userbase with those kind of producers and
have that kind of impact we have to make those kind of videos showing off
the bling that we have acquired, the expensive cars that we drive, the
mansions that we live in and the multitudes of people that we have sex and
take drugs with.
Get Snooki's DJ boyfriend to make a scene at the next club he is playing
at if they don't have Linux software for him to record his latest mix
with. Pay Eminem and Snoop to shout out Linux at every gig in their next
tour. Make a successful Trance album that only has the word Linux for an
whole hour. Pay some super hot chicks to dance naked on your next video.
But most of all make money with Linux Audio and shove it in peoples faces
at every opportunity. In this economy people will be flocking to Linux if
they think it will help them become successful musicians and producers.
Get rich and act like a prick. That will get lots of peoples attention ;-)
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10:18 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
There is no need to talk about Eminem and rock stars. I talked about good
music, not about pop scene and cheap marketing. There is nothing cheap
about the tracking scene. You pointing out some links was enough.
I am rather active Linux Audio member, but these links were unknown to me.
Perhaps we do need to promote these much more. Much more.
11:34 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:18 pm, Louigi Verona wrote:
There is no need to talk about Eminem and rock stars.
I talked about good
music, not about pop scene and cheap marketing. There is nothing cheap
about the tracking scene. You pointing out some links was enough.
I am rather active Linux Audio member, but these links were unknown to me.
Perhaps we do need to promote these much more. Much more.
I've been trying to for a while ;-)
I just made an update to http://linux-audio.com ... Does that make the
links more obvious?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
12 Oct
12 Oct
10:27 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
So, now that this thread shifted into a hardware/driver discussion and the flood of
answers has stopped:
Have we learned anything from it?
For my part the conclusion is
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
Nils
12:12 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On , Nils Gey <list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
For my part the conclusion is
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
Sounds fair enough, I bumped into this guys soundcloud yesterday:
http://soundcloud.com/macrowave
Talking about music that will make you bop your head :) A bit of research
shows he's using LMMS.
IMO more guys like him will show people what can be done with Linux Audio.
5:19 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 10.27.39, Nils Gey <list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
[...]
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, Kobo II;
chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
My focus shifted away from music many years ago, and I've more or less been
out of the loop ever since The Great API Discussions. (JACK, LADSPA, GMPI, XAP
etc.)
These days, I'm running my own business, and since part of that is developing
games, I'm kind of getting back into music agan. However, I'm pretty much
exclusively using weird custom tools (as always!), so I'm not sure I can
contribute much to The Cause anyway, I'm afraid...
The tracks above are all realtime synthesis on a custom engine, ChipSound,
using geometric waveforms and noise only. It's a very simplistic synth from
the DSP point of view, but it's driven by a per-voice microthreaded realtime
scripting engine, which is how it can still produce somewhat interesting
sounds. No pre-rendered waveforms, filters or anything so far, but there's
off-line rendering, modular voices and stuff in my development tree.
All sounds and music coded in a standard code editor (KDE Kate) so far, but
I'm planning on throwing the MIDI master keyboard in the mix later on.
No proper home yet, but the latest release as of now is found here:
http://olofsonarcade.com/2012/03/13/chipsound-0-1-0-released-zlib-
license/
Of course, I'm still developing and running everything on Linux! The ChipSound
development tree has JACK support (too many issues with the SDL->PulseAudio-
JACK->ALSA stack), and I'm using mhWaveEdit and
JAMin for recording and
mastering the demo tracks.
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
5:41 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:19:18 +0200
David Olofson <david(a)olofson.net> wrote:
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 10.27.39, Nils Gey
<list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
[...]
It worked! I want to use the same tools as you.
I have searched for somthing like this for a long time.
Downloading the source right now...
Nils
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, Kobo II;
chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
No proper home yet, but the latest release as of now is found here:
http://olofsonarcade.com/2012/03/13/chipsound-0-1-0-released-zlib-
license/
13 Oct
13 Oct
6 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 17.41.38, Nils Gey <list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
[...]
Awesome! :-D
Well, it's still an inhouse tool in development, so the documentation is
incomplete and might not be up to date. Also, the JACK support isn't in that
release, in case you're looking for that.
I'm going to set up a proper web site for it shortly, with some documentation
and examples. At this rate I'm going to need it myself, as I'm forgetting
details between the times I do some proper work with it! ;-)
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
> > make more music
> > make it public
> > make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note,
some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, Kobo
II; chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
No proper home yet, but the latest release as of now is found here:
http://olofsonarcade.com/2012/03/13/chipsound-0-1-0-released-zlib-
license/
It worked! I want to use the same tools as you.
I have searched for somthing like this for a long time.
Downloading the source right now...
12 Oct
12 Oct
6:24 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:19 PM, David Olofson <david(a)olofson.net> wrote:
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 10.27.39, Nils Gey
<list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
[...]
Cool stuff David - even cooler that it was created in Kate with your own
custom synth! Well done - you've maxed out your music geek points! ;)
I'll have to try Kobo II as it looks like fun. Was Namco's Assault an
inspiration?
Through listening to your tracks I discovered Martin Walker writes for and
runs the SoS forums now - I had no idea!
C64 forever!!!
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, Kobo II;
chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
13 Oct
13 Oct
8:50 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 18.24.36, Dan MacDonald <allcoms(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:19 PM, David Olofson
<david(a)olofson.net> wrote:
Thanks! Been working hard on that. ;-D
Seriously, I was planning on using a MIDI sequencer for the music part (done
that in the past) - but it's like the ever so slight improvement on the
recording/editing part doesn't make up for all the overhead.
Also, it turned out typing note numbers and code is not as cumbersome as it
may seem at first. I guess one needs to be able to "hear" things before
playing them to some extent, but it works ok for me at least. After all, many
of the C64 legends used similar methods, and typing music in as MML was
apparently the way it was generally done for arcade games in Japan. And of
course, once upon a time, people used paper...! ;-)
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 10.27.39, Nils Gey
<list(a)nilsgey.de> wrote:
[...]
Cool stuff David - even cooler that it was created in Kate with your own
custom synth! Well done - you've maxed out your music geek points! ;) make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, Kobo
II;
chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson I'll have to try Kobo II as it looks like fun. Was
Namco's Assault an
inspiration?
Well, it's still just a playable tech demo, but I'm hoping it can entertain
for a moment already. :-)
It wasn't strictly inspired by any single game, though it obviously has some
of the core logic ideas from Kobo Deluxe/XKobo. (Bases constructed out of
modules in Campaign Mode at least...) I'm basically aiming for a bit of FPS
feel in a top-down 2D shooter setting.
Planning on maps a bit like those in Assault as well! In the current Campaign
Mode you start taking out bases at high altitude, and the idea is that you get
closer and closer to the ground, finishing the area by taking out bases and
vehicles on the ground. Might go underground in some cases as well; caves and
massive underground complexes.
Through listening to your tracks I discovered Martin
Walker writes for and
runs the SoS forums now - I had no idea!
Cool! Didn't know that either, actually - but it seems like he's trying to
forget about the C64 days. I can understand that, but still... :-/
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
14 Oct
14 Oct
12:46 a.m.
New subject: kobo [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Sun, October 14, 2012 5:50 am, David Olofson wrote:
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 18.24.36, Dan MacDonald
<allcoms(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
That''s preety damn tight!
"Title Song" is verging on dubstep. Pretty clever angle.
Make sure you share these tracks on the soundcloud linux group so people
listening to the stream get to hear them.
http://soundcloud.com/groups/linux
In case it's not obvious, you have to click the "share" button for each
track not just join the group :-)
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:19 PM, David Olofson
<david(a)olofson.net>
wrote:
Thanks! Been working hard on that. ;-D
Seriously, I was planning on using a MIDI sequencer for the music part
(done
that in the past) - but it's like the ever so slight improvement on the
recording/editing part doesn't make up for all the overhead.
Also, it turned out typing note numbers and code is not as cumbersome as
it
may seem at first. I guess one needs to be able to "hear" things before
playing them to some extent, but it works ok for me at least. After all,
many
of the C64 legends used similar methods, and typing music in as MML was
apparently the way it was generally done for arcade games in Japan. And of
course, once upon a time, people used paper...! ;-)
On Friday 12 October 2012, at 10.27.39, Nils Gey
<list(a)nilsgey.de>
wrote:
[...]
Kobo
make more music
make it public
make other people want to use the same tools as you
[...]
On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects, II;
chip themed music and sound effects:
http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
Cool stuff David - even cooler that it was created in Kate with your own
custom synth! Well done - you've maxed out your music geek points! ;) I'll have to try Kobo II as it looks like
fun. Was Namco's Assault an
inspiration?
Well, it's still just a playable tech demo, but I'm hoping it can
entertain
for a moment already. :-)
It wasn't strictly inspired by any single game, though it obviously has
some
of the core logic ideas from Kobo Deluxe/XKobo. (Bases constructed out of
modules in Campaign Mode at least...) I'm basically aiming for a bit of
FPS
feel in a top-down 2D shooter setting.
Planning on maps a bit like those in Assault as well! In the current
Campaign
Mode you start taking out bases at high altitude, and the idea is that you
get
closer and closer to the ground, finishing the area by taking out bases
and
vehicles on the ground. Might go underground in some cases as well; caves
and
massive underground complexes.
Through listening to your tracks I discovered
Martin Walker writes for
and
runs the SoS forums now - I had no idea!
Cool! Didn't know that either, actually - but it seems like he's trying to
forget about the C64 days. I can understand that, but still... :-/
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
2:02 a.m.
New subject: kobo [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 00.46.21, "Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
On Sun, October 14, 2012 5:50 am, David Olofson wrote:
[...]
>> > On that note, some stuff I've done
for one of my current projects,
>> > Kobo II; chip themed music and sound effects:
>> > http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
[...]
That''s preety damn tight!
Thanks! :-)
"Title Song" is verging on dubstep. Pretty
clever angle.
Haven't really thought of that. The kids are getting to my brain...! :-D
I've basically just been thinking in terms of the sound of C64, Amiga and
arcade games from back in the day, reimplemented it over what is essentially
an emulation of a few dozen SID chips with per-voice MCUs, and added whatever
other influences that seemed to fit.
You might say I'm exploring the connections between the 8-bit era and modern
styles that most of the "kids" are too young to actually see. ;-)
Make sure you share these tracks on the soundcloud
linux group so people
listening to the stream get to hear them.
http://soundcloud.com/groups/linux
In case it's not obvious, you have to click the "share" button for each
track not just join the group :-)
Done! Thanks for the suggestion. :-)
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
3:58 a.m.
New subject: kobo [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On 10/13/2012 02:02 PM, David Olofson wrote:
On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 00.46.21, "Patrick
Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Please allow downloads. On my system, it plays to my default sound
device, which is my (non-functional) built-in sound card. I sent the
link to a friend to listen and his response was "Won't play."
As a long-ago C64 user, it would be great to hear it!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
On Sun, October 14, 2012 5:50 am, David Olofson
wrote:
[...]
>>>> On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects,
>>>> Kobo II; chip themed music and sound effects:
>>>> http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
4:32 a.m.
New subject: kobo [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 03.58.24, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
On 10/13/2012 02:02 PM, David Olofson wrote:
They were trying to give me the impression it's a Premium feature - but nope;
it appears downloads should be working now! :-)
--
//David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate
.--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---.
| http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com |
'---------------------------------------------------------------------'
On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 00.46.21,
"Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Please allow downloads. On my system, it plays to my default sound
device, which is my (non-functional) built-in sound card. I sent the
link to a friend to listen and his response was "Won't play."
As a long-ago C64 user, it would be great to hear it! On Sun, October 14, 2012 5:50 am, David Olofson
wrote:
[...]
>>>> On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects,
>>>>
>>>> Kobo II; chip themed music and sound effects:
>>>> http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
15 Oct
15 Oct
2:43 a.m.
New subject: kobo [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On 10/13/2012 04:32 PM, David Olofson wrote:
On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 03.58.24,
david<gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
I like your tracks - they're just about perfect for video games of that era!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
On 10/13/2012 02:02 PM, David Olofson wrote:
They were trying to give me the impression it's a Premium feature - but nope;
it appears downloads should be working now! :-) On Sunday 14 October 2012, at 00.46.21,
"Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
Please allow downloads. On my system, it plays to my default sound
device, which is my (non-functional) built-in sound card. I sent the
link to a friend to listen and his response was "Won't play."
As a long-ago C64 user, it would be great to hear it! On Sun, October 14, 2012 5:50 am, David Olofson
wrote:
[...]
>>>> On that note, some stuff I've done for one of my current projects,
>>>>
>>>> Kobo II; chip themed music and sound effects:
>>>> http://soundcloud.com/david-olofson
11 Oct
11 Oct
10:31 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I don't get this, there's plenty of music out
there. Something for
everyone's tastes. We are not missing quantity or production quality.
Speak for yourself :)
What we are missing is cocky, self indulgent, drug
taking, sex addicted,
rock stars who preach to their audience that Linux is the reason they get
laid and make bucket loads of cash money.
Really? I was rather thinking in terms of some clever folks like
Massive Attack, or Banco De Gaia, or maybe even Kosheen.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
9:33 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 4:25 pm, Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Shirkey
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com> wrote:
They were the dominant player for almost 10 years.
Given the very real increase in adoption of Linux
across the globe and
the
inevitability of Linux and x86 on the mobile form factor it makes more
sense for audio companies to be early adopters. We know for a fact that
the early adopters in the mobile world are going to have a better chance
of earning the dollars than the ones who are late to the party.
I'm a lurker and not qualified to comment at the level of others in
this thread, but this statement just gives me pause (at my level of
ignorance).
Random list of early adopters of various sorts in the related
smartphone/tablet category:-
1. Palm (where've they gone?) 2. HP + Microsoft (oops)
You mean Nokia not HP right? Until Microsoft effectively took over Nokia
they were the largest mobile phone manufacturer on the planet and were
very supportive of Linux and Open Source in general.
3. Blackberry (still alive, though)
They were also dominant in their segment for about 5 years.
Early adoption has its benefits. And its risks. Not
really a
set-in-stone fact, AFAICT.
If you look at the application side there are also a large number of
developers and small companies that made a lot of money from being first
to market in mobile before the competition became too widespread and
intense.
Android has the largest mobile OS installation base on the planet. It has
just reached over 45% of the tablet market too. When the native Linux
desktop is running on the next generation of mobile devices straight up
GNU/Linux will become a viable business option for mobile hardware
developers.
If you choose to include Android as a Linux system then we already have
the dominant OS on the planet. Linux is ubiquitous across embedded,
server, desktop and mobile. That makes the major players in the audio
industry behind the game at the moment. I'm sure it won't take them long
to catch up though. At least we can count on them being highly competitive
when they realise that if they stay behind the curve they will get left
behind by the market.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
20 Oct
20 Oct
9:10 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 01:37:09PM +1100, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Writing off the Linux Audio platform because some companies are making
money out of the tablet boom is a poor decision. It is inevitable that the
Linux desktop is going to run natively on mobile hardware. Look at the
progress that GTK3 and QT developers are making. ARM support has just been
streamlined for the new 3.6 kernel. AMD's HSA platform and Intels medfield
both support Linux and x86 natively.
Sure Android and iOS have a headstart on market penetration but that is
going to change rapidly.
Linux *IS* the platform for Android.
--
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
oppressing." --- Malcolm X
11 Oct
11 Oct
3:58 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:01 PM, Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com
Most of those are reasons why Ton went with those people yes. Ton doesn't
specify open source audio tools for the BF movies last I checked, because
the point of those movies wasn't to support open source in general, but
rather to specifically support Blender's development and improve it's own
potential in the marketplace.
Alexandre if you really want an answer to your question, catch me on IRC.
I don't wish to speak for Jan on this, but I can tell you I have had
exactly this conversation with him, and completely agree with his answers.
wrote:
What about
soundtracks for BF's open movies? How did it happen that
neither Jan Morgenstern nor Joram Letwory are using Linux?
The Blender guys have their own motives. Ton obviously gets on with his
sound guys and that makes his work more enjoyable. Also they are literally
just down the road from each other. It's certainly a very powerful open source tool
but it is not the
only way to produce video with linux. I don't know why more people aren't
using xjadeo, kdenlive or LiVES. Lots of people seem to be productive with
avsynth too.
Because frankly none of those tools are very capable. I have said it
before, but they don't hold a candle to working even in FCPX(With the
exception of xjadeo which has nothing to do with the other tools and
doens't belong there).
I am waiting to see what Lightworks does in the Linux space if it ever
releases on that front, but that has more to do with Linux Video than Linux
Audio.
Seablade
1:23 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Let me put it this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
i agree with a number of your critiques of patrick's approach, but i don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
meanwhile, may the world have mercy on my soul for preferring ECM to Warp
records.
--p
1:33 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
i agree with a number of your critiques of
patrick's approach, but i don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
Speaking of which, you never replied, what kind of (missing for Linux)
software composers use to create quick soundtracks for TV commissions
:)
And btw I'm quite concerned about *potential* content. Or, to phrase
it better, I'm concerned about the ability of the community to
continuously raise the overall quality bar.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
1:36 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
the people i know who do this use sample libraries and killer sample
playback engines and amazing drum plugins such as the RMX Stylus or
similar. in a few cases, keyboard-workstations like those from Korg and
Yamaha (but these are older people).
but then again, it depends on the musical context. i would imagine that for
somethings these days, abelton live has a lot of applicability, what with
the aesthetics of contemporary advertising and visual media.
i agree with a number of your critiques of
patrick's approach, but i
don't
think that criticisms based on the content or
design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
Speaking of which, you never replied, what kind of (missing for Linux)
software composers use to create quick soundtracks for TV commissions
:)
1:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/11/2012 01:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
it sounds a bit lame to say i would do something about it if i only had
the time, but it irks me something awful that all the blender movies
still had their sound done on commercial proprietary audio systems.
i'm pretty sure with two or three people ganging up on this, we could
come up with a kick-ass movie sound design. and in decent surround, too :)
maybe for their next movie in 2013... if anyone plans to make a move,
let me know - with half a year of advance notice, i could probably find
time to join.
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
i agree with a number of your critiques of
patrick's approach, but i don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
Speaking of which, you never replied, what kind of (missing for Linux)
software composers use to create quick soundtracks for TV commissions
:)
And btw I'm quite concerned about *potential* content. Or, to phrase
it better, I'm concerned about the ability of the community to
continuously raise the overall quality bar.
2 a.m.
New subject: movie sound [Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, October 11, 2012 10:46 am, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 10/11/2012 01:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
They are wedded to their sound guy. I think he an Ton are good mates.
However maybe you missed that Thomas Vecchione is doing the soundtrack
for the new "Tube" open movie project?
We are better off learning how to use blender and making our own music
videos or movies than hoping for the Blender guys to support Linux Audio.
Given the number of very excellent video tutorials available for Blender
these days it's becoming embarrassing that we are not producing more AV
content.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Paul Davis
wrote:
it sounds a bit lame to say i would do something about it if i only had
the time, but it irks me something awful that all the blender movies
still had their sound done on commercial proprietary audio systems.
i'm pretty sure with two or three people ganging up on this, we could
come up with a kick-ass movie sound design. and in decent surround, too :)
maybe for their next movie in 2013... if anyone plans to make a move,
let me know - with half a year of advance notice, i could probably find
time to join.
i agree with a number of your critiques of
patrick's approach, but i
don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
Speaking of which, you never replied, what kind of (missing for Linux)
software composers use to create quick soundtracks for TV commissions
:)
And btw I'm quite concerned about *potential* content. Or, to phrase
it better, I'm concerned about the ability of the community to
continuously raise the overall quality bar.
2:21 a.m.
New subject: movie sound [Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:00 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
They are wedded to their sound guy. I think he an Ton
are good mates.
The latest soundtrack was produced by a different composer.
However maybe you missed that Thomas Vecchione is
doing the soundtrack
for the new "Tube" open movie project?
He's doing sound *design*.
Given the number of very excellent video tutorials
available for Blender
these days it's becoming embarrassing that we are not producing more AV
content.
Exactly my point in the whole thread :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
4:05 a.m.
New subject: movie sound [Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sound Effect Design to be precise. Jan is doing the music.
I will not disagree.
Seablade
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:00 AM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Last I checked Jan is getting fairly busy, I talked to him much in a
while. I have no idea why a different guy was used or not for the newest
one, honestly it doesn't really matter. The end result is that Ton is
looking for results he can easily work with, and going with someone local
there makes much more sense.
He isn't looking to support Linux Audio with the BF movies. However that
isn't to say he wouldn't be averse to working with the Linux Audio
community, provided he can feel confident it won't affect the results.
They are wedded to their sound guy. I think he an
Ton are good mates.
The latest soundtrack was produced by a different composer.
However maybe
you missed that Thomas Vecchione is doing the soundtrack
for the new "Tube" open movie project?
He's doing sound *design*.
Given the
number of very excellent video tutorials available for Blender
these days it's becoming embarrassing that we are not producing more AV
content.
Exactly my point in the whole thread :)
9:52 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 11/10/12 01:46, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 10/11/2012 01:33 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
+1 but it seems (and you can't really blame them on that) that they
stick to the person/studio because they like/trust them... It would be
interesting to have the sound of a blender miovie all generated with
Open Source tools: I'm thinking of the approach proposed by Andy
Farnell's in his Designing Sound... (although the latest Tears of Steel
uses a mixed approach)
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Paul Davis
wrote:
it sounds a bit lame to say i would do something about it if i only had
the time, but it irks me something awful that all the blender movies
still had their sound done on commercial proprietary audio systems. i agree with a number of your critiques of
patrick's approach, but i
don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
Speaking of which, you never replied, what kind of (missing for Linux)
software composers use to create quick soundtracks for TV commissions
:)
And btw I'm quite concerned about *potential* content. Or, to phrase
it better, I'm concerned about the ability of the community to
continuously raise the overall quality bar.
i'm pretty sure with two or three people ganging up on this, we could
come up with a kick-ass movie sound design. and in decent surround, too :)
I agree. But it would have to be a focused job, so to say.
maybe for their next movie in 2013... if anyone plans to make a move,
let me know - with half a year of advance notice, i could probably find
time to join.
Not sure what move should be made but it would be cool.
Lorenzo.
2:03 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, October 11, 2012 10:23 am, Paul Davis wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine
<
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What categories are we missing?
Let me put it this way. I'm a musician who was drawn by some magic
force to your landing page. I've looked at your pretty pictures or
maybe listened to some music samples. What's my next step? Judging by
what you said the next step for me would be to visit my Facebook page
to see if
any friends uploaded new cat pictures :)
i agree with a number of your critiques of patrick's approach, but i don't
think that criticisms based on the content or design of a web page are
anywhere nearly as important as the *potential* content.
that's what is missing, for certain categories of musicians, etc.
meanwhile, may the world have mercy on my soul for
preferring ECM to Warp
records.
I find that the Stonesthrow people are quite receptive to Linux audio
tools too. Not sure if that has anything to do with Trinity Audio Inc but
there might be a connection.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10 Oct
10 Oct
11:27 p.m.
New subject: SEO [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:23 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Where do you get that idea? Has the web suddenly stopped using hyper links?
Page rank in primarily built on two things, Unique content and referring
links. If the referring links are spread out across multiple domains and
ip addresses from multiple regional locations and they are referenced by
useful keywords that people are searching for that improves ranking.
linking "click here" is not as good for ranking as linking "For
professional audio, multimedia, productions tools on Linux click here".
In addition social media and embedded direct links on other highly ranked
sites play a big part in page rank too. If a site that has a ranking of 10
links to a site that has a ranking of 1 that improves the page rank for
the lower ranked site.
Google is struggling to provide the kind of results that they used to be
capable of in realtime search at the moment but that has more to do with
"big data" issues where they are caching search results to save on
having to retrieve them from their archives to maximise system performance
than wholesale changes to their search algorithms.
One thing that has recently changed is that forums and hosted content
sites are becoming higher ranked than mailing lists. In some cases it is
useful but often it results in a lower quality of information.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Marketing companies spend millions of client
dollars on SEO and manage
to
get a lot done with just a few dedicated people. We have thousands of
users and each one of us can build a website or post links in forums and
social media to the landing pages that we want to promote. Our sites all
link up to each other anyway so it just needs some effort from people
around here to spread the links and evangelise the platform.
Oh for god's sake. Inbound links are the past of search engines marketing.
11:48 p.m.
New subject: SEO [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I don't know where you spent last 4-5 years, but search engines have
changed a lot since then.
Oh for
god's sake. Inbound links are the past of search engines marketing.
Where do you get that idea? Has the web suddenly stopped using hyper links? Page rank in primarily built on two things, Unique
content and referring
links.
What can I say? Welcome to the XXI century, Patrick :)
Modern search engines rely on tons of criteria to evaluate and
reevaluate quality of pages. The weight of inbound links in the mix
dramatically dropped in last few years. Having a bunch of inlinks
(even from fat domains) and unique content simply doesn't cut the
mustard today, though it helps.
You need to take care of usability.
You need to make sure you don't have duplicated content across pages.
You need to keep publishing new stuff all the time.
And the list goes on.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
11 Oct
11 Oct
midnight
New subject: SEO [was: Re: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, October 11, 2012 8:48 am, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
I don't know where you spent last 4-5 years, but search engines have
changed a lot since then.
Useful for mobile but not the main contributor to SEO.
Oh for
god's sake. Inbound links are the past of search engines
marketing.
Where do you get that idea? Has the web suddenly stopped using hyper
links? Page rank in primarily built on two things,
Unique content and referring
links.
What can I say? Welcome to the XXI century, Patrick :)
Modern search engines rely on tons of criteria to evaluate and
reevaluate quality of pages. The weight of inbound links in the mix
dramatically dropped in last few years. Having a bunch of inlinks
(even from fat domains) and unique content simply doesn't cut the
mustard today, though it helps.
You need to take care of usability. You need to make sure you don't have duplicated
content across pages.
Backlinks across multiple pages reinforces page rank so this has to be
used with discretion.
You need to keep publishing new stuff all the time.
Of course.
And the list goes on.
But the two most important things to get right are referring links and
unique content. Without those two things you have a low page rank. End of
story.
All the other things that you can do help to increase page rank but those
two are the most important. The higher ranked the referring link the more
weight it has for page rank. That's why corporations spend a lot of money
for clickthrough placements and sponsored article posts on highly ranked
websites with high visitor count. Of course they spend even more money on
directly targeted ads but that is not SEO just digital marketing.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
10 Oct
10 Oct
10:45 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Having some killer content won't go amiss either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians to
license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
all the best,
drew
10:46 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
There is sucha thing with LMMS btw:
http://lmms.sourceforge.net/lsp/index.php
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:45 AM, drew Roberts <zotz(a)100jamz.com> wrote:
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
Having some killer content won't go amiss
either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians to
license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
all the best,
drew
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:49 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:45 AM, drew Roberts wrote:
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
You'd have to ask Paul to implement packaging of projects first.
Otherwise people would have to go through "Missing file" dialogs. Not
funny :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
Having some killer content won't go amiss
either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians to
license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
10:54 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:45 AM, drew Roberts wrote:
something more than a tarball? are you referring to projects with embedded
files?
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
to
Having some killer content won't go amiss
either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
You'd have to ask Paul to implement packaging of projects first.
Otherwise people would have to go through "Missing file" dialogs. Not
funny :)
11:52 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
For some reason I was under impression that Ardour wrote absolute
paths to the project files. I guess it was because whenever I tried
opening projects that I relocated from another different machine with
a different username, I had to go though the aforementioned dialog to
point A3 to the files.
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
You'd have
to ask Paul to implement packaging of projects first.
Otherwise people would have to go through "Missing file" dialogs. Not
funny :)
something more than a tarball? are you referring to projects with embedded
files?
11 Oct
11 Oct
12:10 a.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine <
alexandre.prokoudine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
For some reason I was under impression that Ardour wrote absolute
paths to the project files. I guess it was because whenever I tried
opening projects that I relocated from another different machine with
a different username, I had to go though the aforementioned dialog to
point A3 to the files.
only true if they are embedded. ardour's own recorded audio (and MIDI) and
imported (*not* embedded) audio (and MIDI) are all stored and referenced
relative to the session folder.
we do probably need something like LibreOffice Impress's "Break Links"
feature for images, which converts "embedded" data into stuff that is
actually in the project (in my case, an Impress presentation went from
152kB to 350MB!! :))
12:12 a.m.
New subject: sample hosting [was Re: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:45 am, drew Roberts wrote:
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
Nils was planning to load up a large set of samples on linuxaudio.org. We
may be able to turn the space into a community hosted sample/project
archive. However it will require many terabytes of disk space if we are
going to do it seriously and that will require us to either generate an
income stream from the users or crowd fund the hardware and hosting costs.
The consensus is that we should have a seperate server for a project like
this as the disk space requirements are bound to get expensive quickly.
But there is a business model for providing a service like that. Running
it on Linux is a no brainer. Kim Dotcom has made billions out of it so
there should be some room for Linux Audio peeps too.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Having some killer content won't go amiss
either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians
to
license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
3:15 a.m.
New subject: sample hosting [was Re: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 18:12:11 Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:45 am, drew Roberts wrote:
If people are willing to put a Free license on the projects, it may just take
some outreach from linuxaudio to the internet archive folks at archive.org.
I can't ever get a response to my emails from them but perhaps someone else
has some way to get a dialog going.
I am sure it can be done in an ad hoc fashion now but to be really sweet it
will probably need some coordination.
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
Nils was planning to load up a large set of samples on linuxaudio.org. We
may be able to turn the space into a community hosted sample/project
archive. However it will require many terabytes of disk space if we are
going to do it seriously and that will require us to either generate an
income stream from the users or crowd fund the hardware and hosting costs.
The consensus is that we should have a seperate server for a project like
this as the disk space requirements are bound to get expensive quickly.
But there is a business model for providing a service like that. Running
it on Linux is a no brainer. Kim Dotcom has made billions out of it so
there should be some room for Linux Audio peeps too. Having some killer content won't go amiss
either.
Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing musicians
to
license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played with,
remixed, added to, played along with, and so much more.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
all the best,
drew
18 Oct
18 Oct
12:43 p.m.
New subject: sample hosting [was Re: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?]
2012/10/11 drew Roberts <zotz(a)100jamz.com>
On Wednesday 10 October 2012 18:12:11 Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
We
I've been for a long time "dreaming"/thinking of a business model for
Ardour/Qtractor/<FLOSS-App> which would be an integrated service to upload
final mixes and even entire projects to the cloud.
Gobbler is an example of that (along with project distributed sync), and
other DAWs have integrated Soundcloud or Dropbox, just as an example.
An integration with Bandcamp would be great as it can be a source of
incoming for both the uploader and the DAW project.
That would be really useful at least to learn, and many times on lectures
and other situations I wish I had a well formated and big project in order
to let the audience astonished.
--
Carlos sanchiavedraz
* Musix GNU+Linux
http://www.musix.es
On Thu, October 11, 2012 7:45 am, drew Roberts
wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 October 2012 15:53:30 Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>> Having some killer content won't go amiss either.
>
> Can we find somewhere to host ardour projects and some willing
musicians
> to
> license their complete projects cc BY-SA or BY?
>
> It may prove a killer way to release songs. One ready to be played
with,
remixed,
added to, played along with, and so much more.
Nils was planning to load up a large set of samples on linuxaudio.org. may be able to turn the space into a community
hosted sample/project
archive. However it will require many terabytes of disk space if we are
going to do it seriously and that will require us to either generate an
income stream from the users or crowd fund the hardware and hosting
costs.
The consensus is that we should have a seperate server for a project like
this as the disk space requirements are bound to get expensive quickly.
But there is a business model for providing a service like that. Running
it on Linux is a no brainer. Kim Dotcom has made billions out of it so
there should be some room for Linux Audio peeps too.
If people are willing to put a Free license on the projects, it may just
take
some outreach from linuxaudio to the internet archive folks at archive.org
.
I can't ever get a response to my emails from them but perhaps someone else
has some way to get a dialog going.
I am sure it can be done in an ad hoc fashion now but to be really sweet it
will probably need some coordination.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
all the best,
drew
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
24 Oct
24 Oct
7:08 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Just walking around you can see who is using
Unix/Linux and who is not.
Granted most of it is embedded or SoC but they are definitely not Apple or
Mac OS's on the clear majority of the hardware solutions. Unfortunately
for us in the proprietary world it's not "cool" to talk about where you
get your firmware/software from so no one is promoting that information.
Lionstracs seem to be fairly open about being based upon Linux.
http://www.lionstracs.com/
25 Oct
25 Oct
6:44 p.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:08:36 +0000
Kaza Kore <dj_kaza(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Both of these are *really* serious bits of kit - not much doubt about what
Linux is capable of!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
Just walking around you can see who is using
Unix/Linux and who is not.
Granted most of it is embedded or SoC but they are definitely not Apple or
Mac OS's on the clear majority of the hardware solutions. Unfortunately
for us in the proprietary world it's not "cool" to talk about where you
get your firmware/software from so no one is promoting that information.
Lionstracs seem to be fairly open about being based upon Linux.
http://www.lionstracs.com/
11 Oct
11 Oct
12:48 a.m.
New subject: Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
Replying to nobody in particular but perhaps bringing some new things to
the table:
I feel there's a lot going on "just-under-the-surface" of what most of us
know about. I presume not everybody here is aware of the advances FAUST has
recently made in DomainSpecificLanguage technology. Similary I'm sure
there's other projects having successes that I'm not aware of (despite
being subscribed to all linux-audio feeds I know exist :) So are these
"under-the-surface" technologies and workflows going to arise into public
knowledge? If so, how?
The other things I feel is necessary is to bundle the community together:
We need to agree on one place to post information: a central hub for
linux-audio.
This location needs to have a certain appeal for newcomers, where
inspiration strikes: "YES! With those tools I can achieve exactly what I've
wanted for years!!" says the now enthusiastic and ISO downloading newcomer.
-Harry
1:07 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
There are good things as well.
For music notation Linux is at least equal to any other system except the handwriting of a
19th century professional.
For the advanced stuff and music that is really meant to be published as print product
there is of course Lilypond which still beats all other products in quality, the only
category that matters here.
And for the consumer and amateur market there is Musescore.
Both those programs absolutely suck at playback functionality compared to a typical midi
sequencer with a piano roll editor. Windows world has Notion, which seems to be made by
educated and intelligent people, because that is how their program is desinged and
presented.
With Laborejo I am working on a program for exactly that usecase, creating great playback
through notation, without the need for a piano roll sequencer. Except I base it on
Lilypond and they don't, so in terms of printout-quality the match is already won here
for the open source side.
As you may know from other messages here and my blog www.nilsgey.de a "great
Playback" also requires good sound creating programs such as Samples, Synthesizers or
Physical Modelling, which are drastically underrepresented in the Linux Audio World and
the best option is still to slave a win/osx machine or to rely on Wine/VST, unsupported
and unstable as it is, unable to load the newest copy protection years after their release
or never.
I see this as a pattern: Nearly all of us work on host programms and connection tools.
Obviously this it the right choice because who needs the best synth when you can't
play it? Could it be that we are so far behind that our brightest and most creative minds
still have to concentrate on the underlying general purpose tools instead on specialized
short-term software? (such as synths and samplers. These follow a trend and are still
driven by technological innovation, so each orchestral lib really sounds better than
another one two years earlier)
Nils
1:21 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Nils Gey wrote:
Could it be that we are so far behind that our
brightest and most
creative minds still have to concentrate on the underlying general
purpose tools instead on specialized short-term software? (such as
synths and samplers. These follow a trend and are still driven by
technological innovation, so each orchestral lib really sounds better
than another one two years earlier)
Nail on the head, Nils.
The next person who thinks about inventing a new session manager,
please just do something useful instead :)
Alexandre Prokoudine
http://libregraphicsworld.org
10:58 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Linux Audio 2012: Is Linux Audio moving forward?
On 10/11/2012 01:21 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Nils Gey wrote:
I disagree. The session management evolution was (and still is) very
important to leverage the non-monolithic software available on Linux
system with an at least bearable amount of comfort.. We can hope that
large do-it-all monolithic programs will find their way to Linux
eventually, but I wouldn't hold my breath. IMHO it makes much more sense
to concentrate on that which open source excels on: Small, modular,
software that can be combined in new and ingenious ways.. I must admit
to having lost track of the session management discussion a while ago
(after I added jack_session support to some software of mine - then I
got a 9-5 job that made my life miserable, cause I didn't have the
energy for linux audio anymore ;D), but I'm curious towards what NSM et.
al. have to offer...
Flo
Could it be that we are so far behind that our
brightest and most
creative minds still have to concentrate on the underlying general
purpose tools instead on specialized short-term software? (such as
synths and samplers. These follow a trend and are still driven by
technological innovation, so each orchestral lib really sounds better
than another one two years earlier)
Nail on the head, Nils.
The next person who thinks about inventing a new session manager,
please just do something useful instead :)
4210
days inactive
4225
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
87 comments
23 participants
participants (23)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Ben Loftis -
Carlos sanchiavedraz -
Chris Bannister -
Dan MacDonald -
david -
David Olofson -
drew Roberts -
Florian Paul Schmidt -
Folderol -
Harry van Haaren -
harryhaaren＠gmail.com
-
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Kaza Kore -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Louigi Verona -
Nils Gey -
Oon-Ee Ng -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Robin Gareus -
rosea.grammostola -
Thomas Vecchione