31 Jan
2010
31 Jan
'10
5:17 p.m.
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
31 Jan
31 Jan
5:24 p.m.
I have a Zoom H4 ... does all this. I think the H4N (as well as the
H2) will be fine as well.
I've got some recordings on my webpage:
http://mellowood.ca/music/recordings/index.html
Bob,
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc(a)cosgroves.us> wrote:
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
5:37 p.m.
The H4 is quite good as a first (and in my case only) portable recorder.
It does everything you require, and can also be used as an audio device
(aka soundcard).
Used as an audio device you can also use it's built in FX, but as an
audio device it can only handle 16bit 44.1khz while as a recorder it can
record 24bit 96khz wavs/mp3.
I've also used it via JACK as audio in/out devices. Also used it as
input device while my 'real' soundcard was output device (ignoring the
sync problems).
I have noticed that with the mic settings on high the inbuilt stero mics
possibly pick up interference from the writing-data LED! Anyone else get
this?
James.
On 31/1/2010, "Bob van der Poel" <bob(a)mellowood.ca> wrote:
I have a Zoom H4 ... does all this. I think the H4N (as
well as the
H2) will be fine as well.
I've got some recordings on my webpage:
http://mellowood.ca/music/recordings/index.html
Bob,
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Kevin Cosgrove <kevinc(a)cosgroves.us> wrote:
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
1 Feb
1 Feb
8:39 a.m.
Hi.
The H4 is quite good as a first (and in my case only)
portable recorder.
It does everything you require, and can also be used as an audio device
(aka soundcard).
Used as an audio device you can also use it's built in FX, but as an
audio device it can only handle 16bit 44.1khz while as a recorder it can
record 24bit 96khz wavs/mp3.
I've also used it via JACK as audio in/out devices. Also used it as
input device while my 'real' soundcard was output device (ignoring the
sync problems).
I have one of those and can second all that. Let me add that if you have
a SD card reader transfer of files from the SD card directly is way much
faster (and of course seamlessly mounted in linux).
Using it as a sound card (which anyway isn't its main task) you have to
consider noise problems if you're going to use the internal mics (i.e.
it will always be close enough to the machine to pick up fan noise etc.)
The 4-track mode (although also limited to 44/16 operation) can be fun
for jotting down 'multi-track musical inspirations' (and the 4 tracks
can easilty be imported into ardour as they are simple mono wave files).
Another nice option they have is two universal balanced mic inputs with
phantom (although I rarely used them myself) which might be a bonus if
you already own nice mics to use with it.
Also consider buying an extra bigger card or you're going to run out of
space especially if you're going to record uncompressed (recommended IMHO)
I have noticed that with the mic settings on high the
inbuilt stero mics
possibly pick up interference from the writing-data LED! Anyone else get
this?
That is, alas, a known hardware 'bug' for the H4 operating on batteries
(see http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7221 for example). Not
sure if this has been solved with the H4n edition which is what you get
new now. The impact of this defect varies much on the type of recording
you are making and becomes really bad on very quiet, say very low
wilderness, recordings. I'm sure there's sound samples around and a few
hacks but you should investigate better on those.
Overall I found it was good value for money and use it extensively,
especially for its 'handiness' and swift operating speed from turn on to
record, with respect to having to bring around an - even minimal -
laptop-based recording setup.
Finally, always trust your ears more than what they tell you: there
should be plenty of files done with H4s on freesound.org (I submitted
quite a few)
All the best,
Lorenzo.
2:17 p.m.
On 31 January 2010 at 21:37, "james morris" <james(a)jwm-art.net> wrote:
I have noticed that with the mic settings on high the
[h4]
built-in stero mics possibly pick up interference from the
writing-data LED! Anyone else get this?
I've noticed that kind of symptom on a couple of laptops when using
the built-in soundcard.
--
Kevin
31 Jan
31 Jan
11 p.m.
On Sunday 31 January 2010 16:24:39 Bob van der Poel wrote:
I have a Zoom H4 ... does all this. I think the H4N
(as well as the
H2) will be fine as well.
I have an H4 and like it. Isn't the H4N usb2? Are there any drivers if so?
The H4 has stereo built in mics and an input1 & input2 that you can use
instead. Combo xlr and quarter inch on them and phantom power if needed.
I've got some recordings on my webpage:
http://mellowood.ca/music/recordings/index.html
Bob,
drew
1 Feb
1 Feb
2:32 p.m.
On 31 January 2010 at 22:00, drew Roberts <zotz(a)100jamz.com> wrote:
I have an H4 and like it. Isn't the H4N usb2? Are
there any drivers if so?
The spec's on the Zoom website for the H2 say "USB2.0 Full-Speed
Compatible". That doesn't answer your H4N question tho.
Cheerio....
--
Kevin
31 Jan
31 Jan
5:28 p.m.
Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
Hello Kevin, the Zoom H4 seems to work well, both the storage and audio
parts of the device are class compliant. We have Tascams at work, I'll
give those a go but Tascam is not very well known for its Linux
friendliness.
Best,
Jeremy
6:48 p.m.
On Sun, 2010-01-31 at 13:17 -0800, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
I have the Zoom H2 and it works fine with Linux. I also like the
fact that it has 4 mics instead of 2 like the H4. You can record front
and rear at the same time.
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
8:38 p.m.
Wow, it sure seems like folks here like the Zoom units, especially
the H2, quite a bit. I found these spec's:
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/index.php
And, I found this price:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/480163-REG/Zoom_H2_H2_Ultra_Portable_…
I think I'll order one.
Thanks all!
--
Kevin
1 Feb
1 Feb
2:23 p.m.
On 31 January 2010 at 16:48, Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> wrote:
I have the Zoom H2 and it works fine with Linux.
I also
like the fact that it has 4 mics instead of 2 like the H4. You
can record front and rear at the same time.
The H2 has some very interesting features indeed! 2 pairs of
2 mics with multiple ways to enable them is one. 2 seconds of
pre-roll at all times is another. Another is it's ability to
turn itself on/off depending on the volume of sound it detects.
I wonder if the time-stamped Broadcast WAV format it can use
could be used to determine at what time sounds may have been
detected? That might let me figure out when during the day/night
that a rat is digging into my compost bin.
Thanks....
--
Kevin
31 Jan
31 Jan
8:14 p.m.
Like many others here I have a zoom too, I got the newer h4n tho. All in
all they are quite similar I've only briefly tried the h4. The preamps
are suppose to be less noisy in the newer one but I suspect the
difference is quite insignificant. These devices are not made to make
super high quality recordings of quiet sources but you should get away
with a moderately played acoustic guitar, from a distance of, say 60cm..
using a pair of condenser mics with good output levels should also yield
better result. The h4n feels sturdier and less toyish than the h4 and
another cool detail is that you can twist the internal XY setup from 90*
to 120*. The h4 has nice cage's to protect the mics, the mics on the h4n
feels a little but vulnerable but on the flipside you get a hardcase
with it. With the h4n you can also use a special 4track mode to record 4
tracks simultaneously, internal mics + external inputs. All in all it's
a device well worth the money paid. I tried it as an interface too, I
couldn't get it running full duplex, ie. I had to use my internal card
as output. And I only got buffer size down to 512frames 2 periods @
48khz. However, I don't run an rt kernel atm..
Hi there,
I'm interested in getting a portable digital recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
1 Feb
1 Feb
2:29 p.m.
On 1 February 2010 at 2:11, alexander <axeldenstore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Like many others here I have a zoom too, I got the
newer h4n
tho. All in all they are quite similar I've only briefly tried
the h4. The preamps are suppose to be less noisy in the newer
one but I suspect the difference is quite insignificant. These
devices are not made to make super high quality recordings of
quiet sources but you should get away with a moderately played
acoustic guitar, from a distance of, say 60cm.. using a pair of
condenser mics with good output levels should also yield better
result.
Do you know if the Zoom units are less noisy when using the line
inputs? I might want to use an H2 as a USB card with my laptop
to digitize my record album collection so that I don't have to
drag my turntable into my studio and use my Delta 1010. I'm sure
the latter would give me really good results though.
With the h4n you can also use a special 4track mode to
record 4
tracks simultaneously, internal mics + external inputs.
Very interesting feature in a hand-held unit.
All in all it's a device well worth the money
paid. I tried it
as an interface too, I couldn't get it running full duplex,
ie. I had to use my internal card as output.
Interesting. I wonder whether it's the driver or the recorder.
Do you know if the Zoom units will run full-duplex on other
operating systems?
And I only got buffer size down to 512frames 2 periods
@
48khz. However, I don't run an rt kernel atm..
Even so, isn't 512 frames and 2 periods fairly good?
Thanks!
--
Kevin
9:39 a.m.
Hallo Kevin,
as I have just bought myself a mobile recorder, maybe some of my research
is of use to you as well. This is a very good introduction for potential
buyers of mobile recorders:
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/summary-of-portable-digital-audio.html
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/which-portable-digital-audio-recorder…
It lists the popular devices like this (ASCII on)
POCKET DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Sony MZ-RH1 85 x 84 x 15 107 106 $ 350 - - 124
Olympus LS-10 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 300 - + 122
Olympus LS-11 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 400 - + 122
Sony PCM-M10 114 x 64 x 22 161 187 $ 300 - + 122
Marantz PMD620 102 x 62 x 25 164 170 $ 400 - - 112
M-Audio MicroTrack II 109 x 63 x 28 174 192 $ 200 - - 106
Korg MR-1 120 x 64 x 24 184 200 $ 500 - - 117
Edirol R-09HR 113 x 62 x 27 186 166 $ 300 - + 118
HAND DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Tascam DR-07 151 x 81 x 35 212 130 $ 170 - + 113
Samson Zoom H2 109 x 64 x 33 230 172 $ 190 - + 99
Tascam DR-1 135 x 70 x 27 256 208 $ 250 - + 115
Sony PCM-D50 154 x 72 x 33 365 366 $ 450 - + 126
Samson Zoom H4 153 x 70 x 35 375 190 $ 300 + + 114
Samson Zoom H4n 156 x 70 x 35 382 280 $ 300 + + ?
Tascam DR-100 151 x 81 x 35 428 290 $ 380 + + 113
SHOULDER DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Marantz PMD661 165 x 93 x 36 552 410 $ 600 + + 125
Marantz PMD660 184 x 113 x 47 977 700 $ 550 + + 120
Sound Devices 702 209 x 125 x 45 1176 1000 $1900 + - 130
Fostex FR-2LE 206 x 132 x 57 1550 907 $ 600 + - 129
Marantz PMD671 264 x 185 x 55 2686 1300 $1000 + - 125
Tascam HD-P2 260 x 200 x 63 3276 900 $ 700 + - 127
Another good comparision is at wingfieldaudio.com:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-reviews.html
They also check battery life, which is where the Zooms seem to suck big time.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-battery-life.html
A device not in these lists is the new Yamaha W24.
All of these devices will work with Linux, as they are USB-storage devices. If
you really need 4 channel recording, you don't have much choice: Zoom H4 or
Tascam DR-100 or bankruptcy. :)
Personally I chose the Sony PCM M10 in the end although I'm usually a SEGA guy.
Alternate choices for me have been the Yamaha W24 and both Olympus devices. The
Sony has very good battery life, little noise, nice mics, small size and weight
and okay prize. I like portable recorders to actually be portable without power
cords. I usually don't record 4 channels on the go. For Ambisonics that would
be necessary, though.
In situations where I'd want to use better microphones with XLR and more
channels than 2, I probably also wouldn't care about battery life or weight so
much and then I could just take my small laptop with a good USB card with me.
Of course that was just my reasoning when doing the choice. YMMV.
Ciao
--
Frank
Kevin Cosgrove hat gesagt: // Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
I'm interested in getting a portable digital
recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:16 a.m.
Great links! Thanks Frank.
I think the analysis is very good. He covered my questions quite well.
For my use I'd personally need the XLR inputs as I often record bands
or vocal groups just using two external mics but want one of these
things for recording ambient sounds. That reduces the list for me to
the Tascam DR-100 or the Zoom H4n, with a little bit going to the Zoom
for the pre-roll buffer and of course cost. Battery life on each is
pretty bad though. Less than a day of just walking around?
Thanks for sharing this!
Cheers,
Mark
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:38 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo Kevin,
as I have just bought myself a mobile recorder, maybe some of my research
is of use to you as well. This is a very good introduction for potential
buyers of mobile recorders:
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/summary-of-portable-digital-audio.html
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/which-portable-digital-audio-recorder…
It lists the popular devices like this (ASCII on)
POCKET DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Sony MZ-RH1 85 x 84 x 15 107 106 $ 350 - - 124
Olympus LS-10 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 300 - + 122
Olympus LS-11 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 400 - + 122
Sony PCM-M10 114 x 64 x 22 161 187 $ 300 - + 122
Marantz PMD620 102 x 62 x 25 164 170 $ 400 - - 112
M-Audio MicroTrack II 109 x 63 x 28 174 192 $ 200 - - 106
Korg MR-1 120 x 64 x 24 184 200 $ 500 - - 117
Edirol R-09HR 113 x 62 x 27 186 166 $ 300 - + 118
HAND DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Tascam DR-07 151 x 81 x 35 212 130 $ 170 - + 113
Samson Zoom H2 109 x 64 x 33 230 172 $ 190 - + 99
Tascam DR-1 135 x 70 x 27 256 208 $ 250 - + 115
Sony PCM-D50 154 x 72 x 33 365 366 $ 450 - + 126
Samson Zoom H4 153 x 70 x 35 375 190 $ 300 + + 114
Samson Zoom H4n 156 x 70 x 35 382 280 $ 300 + + ?
Tascam DR-100 151 x 81 x 35 428 290 $ 380 + + 113
SHOULDER DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Marantz PMD661 165 x 93 x 36 552 410 $ 600 + + 125
Marantz PMD660 184 x 113 x 47 977 700 $ 550 + + 120
Sound Devices 702 209 x 125 x 45 1176 1000 $1900 + - 130
Fostex FR-2LE 206 x 132 x 57 1550 907 $ 600 + - 129
Marantz PMD671 264 x 185 x 55 2686 1300 $1000 + - 125
Tascam HD-P2 260 x 200 x 63 3276 900 $ 700 + - 127
Another good comparision is at wingfieldaudio.com:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-reviews.html
They also check battery life, which is where the Zooms seem to suck big time.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-battery-life.html
A device not in these lists is the new Yamaha W24.
All of these devices will work with Linux, as they are USB-storage devices. If
you really need 4 channel recording, you don't have much choice: Zoom H4 or
Tascam DR-100 or bankruptcy. :)
Personally I chose the Sony PCM M10 in the end although I'm usually a SEGA guy.
Alternate choices for me have been the Yamaha W24 and both Olympus devices. The
Sony has very good battery life, little noise, nice mics, small size and weight
and okay prize. I like portable recorders to actually be portable without power
cords. I usually don't record 4 channels on the go. For Ambisonics that would
be necessary, though.
In situations where I'd want to use better microphones with XLR and more
channels than 2, I probably also wouldn't care about battery life or weight so
much and then I could just take my small laptop with a good USB card with me.
Of course that was just my reasoning when doing the choice. YMMV.
Ciao
--
Frank
Kevin Cosgrove hat gesagt: // Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
I'm interested in getting a portable digital
recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:23 a.m.
Howdy Kevin,
You should search archive.org's live music archive (either directly or by
googling for terms + site:archive.org) for the various recorder models you
are considering, to get a sense of the quality of their work when recording
in the field. You'll get a nice selection of mic recordings as well as
direct board mixes.
I use a Zoom H4 to record my band's live shows before chopping them up and
doing some EQ in Audacity, posting to archive.org. We're probably not the
best use comparison for you, as we usually end up jamming the device into a
nook or in the ceiling of the club (acoustic crap-shoot), or handing it to a
friend to hold (shaky recording and lots of "hey how are you?" and
"another
heineken please" comments over the music :) ).
Good luck,
Luke
-----
Luke Peterson
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo Kevin,
as I have just bought myself a mobile recorder, maybe some of my research
is of use to you as well. This is a very good introduction for potential
buyers of mobile recorders:
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/summary-of-portable-digital-audio.html
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2009/11/which-portable-digital-audio-recorder…
It lists the popular devices like this (ASCII on)
POCKET DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Sony MZ-RH1 85 x 84 x 15 107 106 $ 350 - - 124
Olympus LS-10 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 300 - + 122
Olympus LS-11 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 400 - + 122
Sony PCM-M10 114 x 64 x 22 161 187 $ 300 - + 122
Marantz PMD620 102 x 62 x 25 164 170 $ 400 - - 112
M-Audio MicroTrack II 109 x 63 x 28 174 192 $ 200 - - 106
Korg MR-1 120 x 64 x 24 184 200 $ 500 - - 117
Edirol R-09HR 113 x 62 x 27 186 166 $ 300 - + 118
HAND DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Tascam DR-07 151 x 81 x 35 212 130 $ 170 - + 113
Samson Zoom H2 109 x 64 x 33 230 172 $ 190 - + 99
Tascam DR-1 135 x 70 x 27 256 208 $ 250 - + 115
Sony PCM-D50 154 x 72 x 33 365 366 $ 450 - + 126
Samson Zoom H4 153 x 70 x 35 375 190 $ 300 + + 114
Samson Zoom H4n 156 x 70 x 35 382 280 $ 300 + + ?
Tascam DR-100 151 x 81 x 35 428 290 $ 380 + + 113
SHOULDER DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Marantz PMD661 165 x 93 x 36 552 410 $ 600 + + 125
Marantz PMD660 184 x 113 x 47 977 700 $ 550 + + 120
Sound Devices 702 209 x 125 x 45 1176 1000 $1900 + - 130
Fostex FR-2LE 206 x 132 x 57 1550 907 $ 600 + - 129
Marantz PMD671 264 x 185 x 55 2686 1300 $1000 + - 125
Tascam HD-P2 260 x 200 x 63 3276 900 $ 700 + - 127
Another good comparision is at wingfieldaudio.com:
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-reviews.html
They also check battery life, which is where the Zooms seem to suck big
time.
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-battery-life.html
A device not in these lists is the new Yamaha W24.
All of these devices will work with Linux, as they are USB-storage devices.
If
you really need 4 channel recording, you don't have much choice: Zoom H4 or
Tascam DR-100 or bankruptcy. :)
Personally I chose the Sony PCM M10 in the end although I'm usually a SEGA
guy.
Alternate choices for me have been the Yamaha W24 and both Olympus devices.
The
Sony has very good battery life, little noise, nice mics, small size and
weight
and okay prize. I like portable recorders to actually be portable without
power
cords. I usually don't record 4 channels on the go. For Ambisonics that
would
be necessary, though.
In situations where I'd want to use better microphones with XLR and more
channels than 2, I probably also wouldn't care about battery life or weight
so
much and then I could just take my small laptop with a good USB card with
me.
Of course that was just my reasoning when doing the choice. YMMV.
Ciao
--
Frank
Kevin Cosgrove hat gesagt: // Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
I'm interested in getting a portable digital
recorder, something
that can run on batteries or ac power (presumably through a
wall-wart?), that has built-in stereo mics, and something which
will take 2-4 line external inputs. I've seen a lot of such
things come on the market in recent years. Many have SD or SDHC
cards for their audio memory, which is fine with me as I have
an SDHC card reader in my computer. If I get one with a USB
interface it's my _requirement_ that it operate with Linux over
USB. The same would go for firewire, though I haven't seen any
of those. Some units record only in lossy compressed format
only, while others have uncompressed formats available. I would
prefer the uncompressed format to be available. I'd also need
at _least_ 4 hours of stereo 44.1kHz at at least 16-bit, with
something like 24-bit being more desired by me.
I'll be doing remote recordings, then bringing the audio home to
chop up with Audacity and/or Ardour, then authoring the result to
CDs.
So, what works well with Linux and works well in general?
Thanks people!
--
Kevin
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12:10 p.m.
On 1 February 2010 at 14:38, Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
[snip]
Wow! What a wonderful comparison. Thanks!
--
Kevin
3:59 p.m.
On 02/01/2010 02:38 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
It lists the popular devices like this (ASCII on)
cool!
but check out the EIN column:
POCKET DIMENSIONS VOL MASS
PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Sony MZ-RH1 85 x 84 x 15 107 106 $ 350 - - 124
Olympus LS-10 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 300 - + 122
Olympus LS-11 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 400 - + 122
Sony PCM-M10 114 x 64 x 22 161 187 $ 300 - + 122
Marantz PMD620 102 x 62 x 25 164 170 $ 400 - - 112
M-Audio MicroTrack II 109 x 63 x 28 174 192 $ 200 - - 106
Korg MR-1 120 x 64 x 24 184 200 $ 500 - - 117
Edirol R-09HR 113 x 62 x 27 186 166 $ 300 - + 118
HAND DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Tascam DR-07 151 x 81 x 35 212 130 $ 170 - + 113
Samson Zoom H2 109 x 64 x 33 230 172 $ 190 - + 99
Tascam DR-1 135 x 70 x 27 256 208 $ 250 - + 115
Sony PCM-D50 154 x 72 x 33 365 366 $ 450 - + 126
Samson Zoom H4 153 x 70 x 35 375 190 $ 300 + + 114
Samson Zoom H4n 156 x 70 x 35 382 280 $ 300 + + ?
Tascam DR-100 151 x 81 x 35 428 290 $ 380 + + 113
SHOULDER DIMENSIONS VOL MASS PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Marantz PMD661 165 x 93 x 36 552 410 $ 600 + + 125
Marantz PMD660 184 x 113 x 47 977 700 $ 550 + + 120
Sound Devices 702 209 x 125 x 45 1176 1000 $1900 + - 130
Fostex FR-2LE 206 x 132 x 57 1550 907 $ 600 + - 129
Marantz PMD671 264 x 185 x 55 2686 1300 $1000 + - 125
Tascam HD-P2 260 x 200 x 63 3276 900 $ 700 + - 127
if that means what i think it means (equivalent input noise), and i'm
not totally out of touch with the state of preamp technology, i'd say
all but the 106, the 99 and the ? are bogus. and i'm not even sure about
the 106 :)
i wonder who makes these figures up? or is there a legal way to doctor
the measurements to actually yield such values without being sued?
4:22 p.m.
On 1 February 2010 at 21:00, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn_Nettingsmeier?=
<nettings(a)folkwang-hochschule.de> wrote:
but check out the EIN column:
[snip]
POCKET DIMENSIONS VOL MASS
PRICE XLR MIC EIN
------------------- -------------- ---- ---- ----- --- --- ---
Sony MZ-RH1 85 x 84 x 15 107 106 $ 350 - - 124
Olympus LS-10 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 300 - + 122
Olympus LS-11 132 x 48 x 22 139 165 $ 400 - + 122
Sony PCM-M10 114 x 64 x 22 161 187 $ 300 - + 122
Marantz PMD620 102 x 62 x 25 164 170 $ 400 - - 112
M-Audio MicroTrack II 109 x 63 x 28 174 192 $ 200 - - 106
Korg MR-1 120 x 64 x 24 184 200 $ 500 - - 117
Edirol R-09HR 113 x 62 x 27 186 166 $ 300 - + 118
if that means what i think it means (equivalent input noise), and i'm
not totally out of touch with the state of preamp technology, i'd say
all but the 106, the 99 and the ? are bogus. and i'm not even sure about
the 106 :)
i wonder who makes these figures up? or is there a legal way to doctor
the measurements to actually yield such values without being sued?
Could it be that EIN refers only to theoretical quantization noise of
the units? I didn't run that calc.
I'm also suspicious ~120dB equivalent input noise, presuming the sign
of that number is negative. Well, with either sign the number seems
fictitious.
--
Kevin
5:02 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 09:00:31PM +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
if that means what i think it means (equivalent input
noise), and i'm
not totally out of touch with the state of preamp technology, i'd say
all but the 106, the 99 and the ? are bogus. and i'm not even sure about
the 106 :)
First of all, all these numbers should have a minus sign in
front of them, and for them to be informative at all I'd
want to know if they are dBu or dBV.
99 and 106 are *very bad* - how does one design a mic preamp
to be that bad ? Use a 714 wired as differential amplifier ?
Things start to be interesting around -125 dBV and below.
Figures in the below -125 dBV range require either a transformer
(big, expensive, heavy) or some quite nifty (again expensive)
input circuit design.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
5:10 p.m.
On 1 February 2010 at 21:58, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
First of all, all these numbers should have a minus
sign in
front of them, and for them to be informative at all I'd want
to know if they are dBu or dBV.
The Zoom spec sheet listed their numbers to be in dBm, which
requires usually requires an impedance. They didn't give an
impedance. But, they did define "0dBm=0.775Vrms" which lets one
calculate all that's needed. Then again, Zoom didn't spec noise,
other than to say "very low noise and no distortion". Hmm, how
can they say "no distortion"?
In my world dBFS (dB with respect to full scale, i.e. maximum
amplitude) would be more common.
99 and 106 are *very bad* - how does one design a mic
preamp to
be that bad ? Use a 714
741?
wired as differential amplifier ? Things start to be
interesting around -125 dBV and below.
Cheers....
--
Kevin
5:25 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 01:10:03PM -0800, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
On 1 February 2010 at 21:58, fons(a)kokkinizita.net
wrote:
!!! Indeed. Or the 'wideband' 748 IIRC. This just goes to show
how old these things are... As a true Belgian I was of course
thinking of the Tintin album 'Flight 714'
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714>.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
99 and 106 are *very bad* - how does one design a
mic preamp to
be that bad ? Use a 714
741? 
5:40 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 22:20:54 +0100
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 01:10:03PM -0800, Kevin
Cosgrove wrote:
and another thing ...
bandwidth?
weighting?
peak/average/RMS?
source impedance?
sorry, that was four things :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On 1 February 2010 at 21:58, fons(a)kokkinizita.net
wrote:
!!! Indeed. Or the 'wideband' 748 IIRC. This just goes to show
how old these things are... As a true Belgian I was of course
thinking of the Tintin album 'Flight 714'
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714>.
Ciao, 99 and 106 are *very bad* - how does one design a
mic preamp to
be that bad ? Use a 714
741? 
2 Feb
2 Feb
11:55 a.m.
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:20 PM, <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 01:10:03PM -0800, Kevin
Cosgrove wrote:
General lack of design, ground routing, lack of shielding, etc. You
could use an OPA627 and still shoot yourself in the foot by picking up
bus noise becasue you didn't shiled low RF. Or by 'hardening' the
inputs by using, eg, 1M input source current limiting resistors. Any
of a million things, probably more than one of them.
Really deep S/N audio circuit design takes an awful lot effort. Cost
cutting, deadlines and outright supersition (One transistor is better
than a whole opamp!) ruin what could have been good designs all the
time.
Monty
On 1 February 2010 at 21:58, fons(a)kokkinizita.net
wrote:
!!! Indeed. Or the 'wideband' 748 IIRC. This just goes to show
how old these things are... As a true Belgian I was of course
thinking of the Tintin album 'Flight 714'
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_714>. 99 and 106 are *very bad* - how does one design a
mic preamp to
be that bad ? Use a 714
741? 
1 Feb
1 Feb
6:44 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 09:00:31PM +0100, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
On the source website (theatreofnoise.com), he claims:
In this article I will measure noise using Equivalent Input Noise (EIN)
A-weighted at 150 ohms, measured in dBu.
...and in a footnote, he reminds us that they are really negative, he's
just choosing to list the absolute value for simplicity. I'm still
looking for 'part three' of the article, where he promises to 'tell us
more', hopefully describing his measurement setup, so we can confirm the
accuracy for ourselves.
I'd like to see a portable handheld recorder with a wordclock input, so
that the band could link their individual recorders and produce a usable
multitrack of a session. So far, I haven't identified anything in the
'handheld' category with this capability...
--
Rick Green
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-Benjamin Franklin
"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our
safety and our ideals."
-President Barack Obama 20 Jan 2009
if that means what i think it means (equivalent
input noise), and i'm
not totally out of touch with the state of preamp technology, i'd say
all but the 106, the 99 and the ? are bogus. and i'm not even sure about
the 106 :)
First of all, all these numbers should have a minus sign in
front of them, and for them to be informative at all I'd
want to know if they are dBu or dBV.
6:47 p.m.
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:35:37 -0500 (EST)
Rick Green <rtg(a)aapsc.com> wrote:
On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
OK, somehow I missed this - Note to self, slow down while reading!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 09:00:31PM +0100, Jörn
Nettingsmeier wrote:
On the source website (theatreofnoise.com), he claims:
In this article I will measure noise using Equivalent Input Noise (EIN)
A-weighted at 150 ohms, measured in dBu. if that means what i think it means (equivalent
input noise), and i'm
not totally out of touch with the state of preamp technology, i'd say
all but the 106, the 99 and the ? are bogus. and i'm not even sure about
the 106 :)
First of all, all these numbers should have a minus sign in
front of them, and for them to be informative at all I'd
want to know if they are dBu or dBV.
7:25 p.m.
On 02/01/2010 11:35 PM, Rick Green wrote:
On the source website (theatreofnoise.com), he
claims:
In this article I will measure noise using Equivalent Input Noise (EIN)
A-weighted at 150 ohms, measured in dBu.
those are real measurements by a third party? weird.
i had it down as vendor marketing hype. would be interesting to find out
how he did the measurements...
as fons stated, of course the values around 106 and above would be
really bad, but as i found, such is live with many consumer gadgets :(
i'm no circuit designer, but i'd also argue it's not just the preamp
design, but also the fact that you only have a very low voltage to drive
it, and possibly rather cheap converters, which should all add to the
EIN value of such a device.
so the comparison to "where it's getting interesting" is a bit off imho,
given the price range of the units. you'd hardly find a single
"interesting" preamp for the price of one of those entire gadgets.
(or at least that's what i want to believe, having just paid an arm and
a leg for "interesting" stuff...)
best,
jörn
7:58 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 12:25:16AM +0100, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
i'm no circuit designer, but i'd also argue
it's not just the preamp
design, but also the fact that you only have a very low voltage to drive
it, and possibly rather cheap converters, which should all add to the
EIN value of such a device.
One of characteristics of a good design is that the
input stage dominates in the noise figure, and that
the EIN stays more or less the same for say the upper
20 dB of the gain range. So to get the full picture
you need EIN at different gain settings.
A peculiar thing for instance is that the cheapo 8-ch
Behringer AD/DA has quite a decent noise figure *at
maximum gain*. But it degrades immediately as gain
is decreased (and the first mechanical detent on the
gain pot can be anything between -5 and -15 dB).
so the comparison to "where it's getting
interesting" is a bit off imho,
given the price range of the units. you'd hardly find a single
"interesting" preamp for the price of one of those entire gadgets.
(or at least that's what i want to believe, having just paid an arm and
a leg for "interesting" stuff...)
An EIN of -125 dBu, unweighted RMS, 20kHz from 150 ohm starts
to be interesting because you're approaching the theoretical
limit. Anyone claiming less than -131 dBu for this would be
selling snake oil.
OTOH, many active (condenser) mics have a source Z well
below 150 ohms, so figures for these are interesing as
well, and can be lower by a dB or two.
I've never measured the 'interesting stuff', you recently
acquired, but it has at least on paper one of the best
noise figures you can spend your body parts on.
Ciao,
--
FA
O tu, che porte, correndo si ?
E guerra e morte !
11:06 p.m.
A couple of years ago we were at the AES convention and were given a few IC samples.
We have yet to get around to using them, though we have good reason to when we find the
time.
They're THAT_IC 1510P Mic Preamps and 1646 Balanced Line drivers.
http://www.thatcorp.com/THAT_IC_Cross-Reference.html
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:54:39 +0100
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
...
2 Feb
2 Feb
5:06 a.m.
Hallo,
Jörn Nettingsmeier hat gesagt: // Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
On 02/01/2010 11:35 PM, Rick Green wrote:
As the author wrote in his article, he collected the numbers from a variety of
third party sources, among which is this:
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
and the people of the http://taperssection.com/ forum.
Ciao
--
Frank
On the source website (theatreofnoise.com), he
claims:
In this article I will measure noise using Equivalent Input Noise (EIN)
A-weighted at 150 ohms, measured in dBu.
those are real measurements by a third party? weird.
i had it down as vendor marketing hype. would be interesting to find out
how he did the measurements... 
11:39 a.m.
On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 10:06:15 +0100
Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
As the author wrote in his article, he collected the
numbers from a variety of
third party sources, among which is this:
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
Nice stuff!
I'm late to this party, but I have to throw some love towards the M-Audio
Microtrack 96/24 recorder. It's made some great recordings for me over the
years when paired with a nice little Sony stereo mic I picked up at the
Sony outlet store. (I don't remember the model offhand).
My only issue with it was that the battery stopped holding a charge, and
wouldn't even run when directly connected to a USB port or to the charger.
M-Audio wanted $75 to repair it, but it turns out that an iPhone replacement
battery works perfectly well. I was even able to get one with a slightly
higher amperage for longer life. The battery cost me about $10 online.
That unit's been replaced with the Microtrack II - I have no info on that
unit though.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
31 comments
19 participants
participants (19)
-
alexander -
Bob van der Poel -
drew Roberts -
Folderol -
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
Frank Barknecht -
james morris -
Jan Depner -
Jeremy -
Joe Hartley -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Lorenzo -
Luke Peterson -
Mark Knecht -
Monty Montgomery -
Rick Green -
sv-e＠sv-e.dk -
Tracey Hytry