24 May
2003
24 May
'03
7:49 a.m.
G'day from outback Australia,
I'd like to record my Roland RD-150 piano at the MIDI protocol level,
adjust the tempo, maybe fix a few mistakes, and then play it back and
capture to audio to CD-R ... all to save having to take my piano with
me on gigs. It doesn't like the dirt roads.
I've spent about sixteen hours so far on the project, with some good
progress, but I'm missing a workable means to capture the MIDI data and
play it back at tempo.
I see from the mailing list archives (Frustrated, small review on
sequencers) that Rosegarden 4 might be an active project to try.
Does this match what I need? I've not used these sort of tools before,
so I lack the right terminology. I'm not convinced I know what people
mean when they say "sequencer" or "tracker".
Here is what I have cobbled together so far ... separate to my other
systems ...
- hardware: Pentium II 266MHz, 64Mb, 1.6Gb IDE, CD-R IDE, SB Live PCI,
- software: Debian testing/unstable, ALSA 0.9.3 on Linux 2.4.20,
- packages: brec, sweep, cdrecord (record sound, edit it to remove the
silence, then record to CD-R)
I had hoped it might be as simple as reading and writing to a device
node, e.g. "cat /dev/sequencer > file", but all notes fire at once,
when the data is written back to the node, so I guess additional timing
ioctl() logic is required.
I reviewed some 15 MIDI programs, one by one, but I was unable to
record and play back, due to one reason or another. Programs tried
include JAZZ++, Anthem, BINARS (marked obsolete by author), Brahms,
Melys (sourceforge downloads down), MidiMountain, Shake Tracker,
TekTracker, pystepseq (page missing), Rosegarden 2.1, seq24 (build
failure on libgtkmm.so), ASeqView (didn't view a thing), MusE (no
detection of MIDI interface), Sted2 (no data), libtse3 (no recording
example program).
--
James Cameron mailto:quozl@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/
24 May
24 May
8:32 a.m.
On Sat, 24 May 2003 19:38:14 +1000
James Cameron <quozl(a)us.netrek.org> wrote:
G'day from outback Australia,
I'd like to record my Roland RD-150 piano at the MIDI protocol
level, adjust the tempo, maybe fix a few mistakes, and then play
it back and capture to audio to CD-R ... all to save having to
take my piano with me on gigs. It doesn't like the dirt roads.
I've spent about sixteen hours so far on the project, with some
good progress, but I'm missing a workable means to capture the
MIDI data and play it back at tempo.
I see from the mailing list archives (Frustrated, small review on
sequencers) that Rosegarden 4 might be an active project to try.
Does this match what I need? I've not used these sort of tools
before, so I lack the right terminology. I'm not convinced I know
what people mean when they say "sequencer" or "tracker".
Here are the steps:
1. Capture MIDI events from keyboard to a MIDI sequencer
like Rosegarden or MusE
2. Work at the score (adjust tempo/notes/whatever)
3. Play it through any software synth. I suggest FluidSynth
(www.fluidsynth.org) or Timidity and capture this sound in any
(multitrack) recording editor like ecasound, Ardour or ReZound --
you will need low-latency sound server JACK.
4. Record a resulted WAV file to CD-R/RW
You can find a more precised info at:
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/Jack_Ardour/
and you won't be frustrated if you read the whole
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/
:-)
Good luck!
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JabberID: avp(a)altlinux.org
10:31 a.m.
Thanks for the reply.
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 02:20:47PM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
3. Play it through any software synth. [...]
Is it also practical to play it into the piano? (eg write to MIDI port)
I don't have a software synth yet.
You can find a more precised info at:
http://www.djcj.org/LAU/quicktoots/toots/Jack_Ardour/
Thanks, reviewed. It appears just a way to intercept the data stream.
--
James Cameron mailto:quozl@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/
10:42 a.m.
On Sat, 24 May 2003 22:19:18 +1000
James Cameron <quozl(a)us.netrek.org> wrote:
Thanks for the reply.
On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 02:20:47PM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine
wrote:
Why not? :)
3. Play it through any software synth. [...]
Is it also practical to play it into the piano? (eg write to MIDI
port) Thanks, reviewed. It appears just a way to intercept
the data
stream.
Yes, I think so
--
Alexandre Prokoudine
ALT Linux Documentation Team
JabberID: avp(a)altlinux.org
11:53 a.m.
On Sat, 24 May 2003 16:31:10 +0400
Alexandre Prokoudine <avp(a)altlinux.ru> wrote / a écrit:
Sorry, but I beg to disagree strongly. I found it way more complicated to run a softsynth
than a real synth. I believe for some persons (me included) it can take monthes, no
kidding. Anyway, once up, a softsynth (timidity) let you record it to disk wit no loss:
it's pure digital, no need to record the synth with the analog input of the sound
card.
cheers
GuyCLO~
-------------------------------------
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/
-------------------------------------
Is it also
practical to play it into the piano? (eg write to MIDI
port)
Why not? :)
26 May
26 May
10:39 a.m.
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
After another few hours of fiddling with rosegarden 4.0.9, I've got only
a little way. I can receive MIDI data from the piano, and have RG show
it, but playing it back does not emit data to the piano.
The RG instruments are apparently set to the sound card. So I tried to
remap them to the external synth, and RG did segfault in Qt.
Then I grabbed RG CVS, and built that, and now the RG sequencer won't
start, complaining about /dev/snd/seq missing. I thought it was there
yesterday.
Q: is /dev/snd/seq meant to exist, and if so how to get it back?
(soundblaster live pci),
Q: is it time for me to join the RG lists?
--
James Cameron mailto:quozl@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/
10:57 a.m.
On Monday 26 May 2003 12:26 pm, James Cameron wrote:
The RG instruments are apparently set to the sound
card. So I
tried to remap them to the external synth, and RG did segfault in
Qt.
If you were using the Tracks -> Remap Instruments function, then yes,
there was a nasty bug in that in 0.9 -- one of the handful of bad
bugs we've fixed in preparation for the upcoming point release.
But it should have been possible to change the "connection" for the
MIDI devices so as to make them point to the piano -- call up the
Studio -> Manage MIDI Devices dialog, and using the dropdown
corresponding to the device your tracks are playing to, select the
name of the connection you want (from the list of ALSA port names --
at some point you have to know the ALSA port name for your device,
regardless of what else you do).
The rest of your email is one of those standard ALSA questions that I
can never remember the answer to, I fear. And as for whether you
should join the rg-user list, I'd say probably yes -- but I'm a RG
developer, so I would say that.
Chris
24 May
24 May
11:25 a.m.
On Sat, 2003-05-24 at 02:38, James Cameron wrote:
G'day from outback Australia,
I see from the mailing list archives (Frustrated,
small review on
sequencers) that Rosegarden 4 might be an active project to try.
I think that RG might well be the best for this project. On paper it
will record and playback MIDI, as well as record audio. You'll then take
the audio and use cdrecord to burn an audio CD.
Does this match what I need? I've not used these sort of tools before,
so I lack the right terminology. I'm not convinced I know what people
mean when they say "sequencer" or "tracker".
You want a sequencer. A tracker is a bit different in that it plays
prerecorded audio files at specific times.
Good luck,
Mark
12:01 p.m.
Hi
On 24 May 2003 06:14:05 -0700
Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)attbi.com> wrote / a écrit:
You want a sequencer. A tracker is a bit different in
that it plays
prerecorded audio files at specific times.
Is it not what he may want? seq24 (http://filter24.org/seq24/) for instance is oriented
for live playing . It records midi tracks and play them back. Best of all, it's really
lightweight.
I found that RG is a tool well suited for composing, mixing midi tracks (bass, drums,
violins, etc) and audio tracks (guitar, voices).
GuyCLO~
-------------------------------------
#219055 http://counter.li.org
-------------------------------------
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/guy.clotilde/
-------------------------------------
2:16 p.m.
On Sat, 2003-05-24 at 06:46, Guy Daniel CLOTILDE wrote:
Hi
On 24 May 2003 06:14:05 -0700
Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)attbi.com> wrote / a écrit:
Well, his original request was:
(As I understood it!)
1) He's going to play his piano synth - it puts out MIDI - he wants tha
MIDI recorded. RG will do that.
2) When he has the MIDI right (edited and what not) he will let RG (or
whatever recorded it) play, and he wants to record the audio. RG will do
that.
I haven't used Seq24, but that, plus maybe Ecasound or something to
record the audio would work also. Probably comes down to what's easiest
to build and operate on his machine.
Probably either of those two options, or a few others, would do what he
needs.
You want a sequencer. A tracker is a bit
different in that it plays
prerecorded audio files at specific times.
Is it not what he may want? seq24 (http://filter24.org/seq24/) for instance is oriented
for live playing . It records midi tracks and play them back. Best of all, it's really
lightweight.
I found that RG is a tool well suited for composing, mixing midi tracks (bass, drums,
violins, etc) and audio tracks (guitar, voices).
1:06 p.m.
Hallo,
James Cameron hat gesagt: // James Cameron wrote:
I'd like to record my Roland RD-150 piano at the
MIDI protocol level,
adjust the tempo, maybe fix a few mistakes, and then play it back and
capture to audio to CD-R ... all to save having to take my piano with
me on gigs. It doesn't like the dirt roads.
Those are actually two different tasks:
1. you want to record and edit midi data/files, and
2. you want to record audio data, either coming from a softsynth
played via midi or from your keyboard controlled via midi.
So for 1. you need a midi sequencer software, that can record from
your midi-in. Rosegarden and Muse are the best choices. I'm a Muse
user and would just follow the directions on:
http://linux-sound.org/quick-toots/2-muse/quick-toot-muse.html
Feel free to use another midi sequencer instead.
2. is another beast. First we need to know, if a) you want to capture
your piano's output or if b) you want to create sound with any kind of
internal software synthesizer?
If we're talking about a) here, then you can use the sequencer of your
choice to play to your midi-out device (usually "/dev/midi" or
"/dev/snd/midiC0D0"). Connect the audio-out of your piano to your
soundcard's input and record with for example ecasound. Or you might
use a mic if your piano doesn't have audio-out.
b) just involves playing back a midi file and rendering it to disk.
Both fluidsynth and timidity should be able to do that, if not, use
Jack and its capture client or again ecasound in Jack-mode.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
2:31 p.m.
Hi,
--- Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo,
James Cameron hat gesagt: // James Cameron wrote:
The piano parts will dictate what the band plays live.
I'll give the overall picture of how I'd do this sort
of thing. Anyone else can provide better suggestions
for the tools to accomplish your goal.
This assumes a good drummer that can follow a click
because the piano parts alone aren't going to be
enough information. For any song that has prerecorded
parts, the drummer must play the song from start to
finish with a click. The drummer will require a damned
good amplifier and monitor or they'd have to use good
headphones. And the band _must_ follow the drummer.
Record every instrument to a digital audio workstation
(DAW) or Hard Disk Recording (HDR) system and click
track everything. I'd probably prefer a cheap HDR,
something like the Yamaha 4416.
With all songs produced, your output to the house
public address system is one stereo pair. You no
longer need a house sound man and your mix will kick
the crap out of every other bands live sound. You mix
the entire band from stage. If a band member isn't
present for the gig simply unmute his prerecorded
track and distribute that nites paycheck amongst the
group minus the missing player--sound better, make
more money. :)
With this aproach you can premix everything. Consider
mixing scenes where the snare reverb is changed from a
small tight reverse gate during a quick tempo to a
large sustained room for a reggae dub. Because the
drummer is playing to a click, he's on cue for every
vital nuance. Nice! Or multipart vocal harmonies, etc,
etc, etc.
You can customize this aproach endlessly. Example, no
prerecorded drums but the drum mix for panning, eq,
compression, effects, etc can all be predetermined.
Sound checks become a tweaking game. But what about
spontanaity? So, the drummer has a foot pedal to
control the AW 4416 transport; disengage transport for
all parts where the band intends to jam. The mix
settings are retained when the transport is stopped
and the drummer simply cues the band in and out of
those parts.
ron
I'd like to record my Roland RD-150 piano at
the
MIDI protocol level,
adjust the tempo, maybe fix a few mistakes, and
then play it back and
capture to audio to CD-R ... all to save having
to
take my piano with
> me on gigs. It doesn't like the dirt roads. Those are actually two different tasks:
1. you want to record and edit midi data/files, and
2. you want to record audio data, either coming from
a softsynth
played via midi or from your keyboard controlled
via midi.
So for 1. you need a midi sequencer software, that
can record from
your midi-in. Rosegarden and Muse are the best
choices. I'm a Muse
user and would just follow the directions on:
http://linux-sound.org/quick-toots/2-muse/quick-toot-muse.html
Feel free to use another midi sequencer instead.
2. is another beast. First we need to know, if a)
you want to capture
your piano's output or if b) you want to create
sound with any kind of
internal software synthesizer?
If we're talking about a) here, then you can use the
sequencer of your
choice to play to your midi-out device (usually
"/dev/midi" or
"/dev/snd/midiC0D0"). Connect the audio-out of your
piano to your
soundcard's input and record with for example
ecasound. Or you might
use a mic if your piano doesn't have audio-out.
b) just involves playing back a midi file and
rendering it to disk.
Both fluidsynth and timidity should be able to do
that, if not, use
Jack and its capture client or again ecasound in
Jack-mode.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _
______footils.org__
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11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Alexandre Prokoudine -
Chris Cannam -
Frank Barknecht -
Guy Daniel CLOTILDE -
James Cameron -
Mark Knecht -
R Parker