15 Mar
2021
15 Mar
'21
5:37 p.m.
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will need
to attend online music lessons (bass). The suggested tool is zoom with
'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' (or maybe it's echo
cancellation) to low seemed to work OK, but I'm wondering if anyone
knows of any work-arounds.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds promising).
The one used for the last LAC seemed also quite nice, but I guess that's
not free (as in 'gratis')? As zoom is the tool selected by the music
school it should also be something relatively hassle-free for the
teacher and cross-platform (i.e. assume they will not be on Linux, so no
funky stuff like having to install a Mumble server etc. :-| ... Although
the offers on mumble.com seem quite reasonable, but has anyone used it
for music?)
I _am_ already able to set-up e.g. my Zoom H5 (the device not the
software) or usb audio interface via JACK to have a decent mic/input at
the source and then pulseaudio-jack sink for audio I/O with these apps
(I actually helped my son do remote drum lessons which included piping
smplayer via jack to him locally and his teacher as well as the e-drum
line out with JACK).
But of course there's no much point in having decent quality at the
source if the software is doing funky stuff like noise reduction and
echo cancellation at the source :-|
Any suggestion welcome.
Lorenzo.
[1] e.g.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/original_sound_and_stereo_opt…
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115003279466-Enabling-option-to-p…
[2]
15 Mar
15 Mar
5:46 p.m.
Mar 15 2021, Lorenzo Sutton has written:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will need
to attend online music lessons (bass).
...
There is jamulus, which I believe is cross platform, but you have to
install a program. A friend of mine mostly teaches with Zoom, though
she's on mac for that and no idea what her students are using. :) I
can't think of any other free browser based tools.
Yesterday I heard of something called clean speech or cleaned speech,
intended for interviews, so no idea about latency and quality for
instruments.
HTH.
Best wishes,
Jeanette
--
* Website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMS4rfGrTwz8W7jhC1Jnv7g
* Audiobombs: https://www.audiobombs.com/users/jeanette_c
* GitHub: https://github.com/jeanette-c
But now I'm stronger than yesterday <3
(Britney Spears)
7:27 p.m.
I have setup Jamulus servers at my institution, and I think it is one of
the best for users of all operating systems. It is simple to setup and
get running, and has features like automatic recording of sessions (it
creates a DAW project file with stems!) It also gives users control of
personal mixes, which is a unique feature. It has decently low latency
and doesn't do any audio ducking like zoom does. Just make sure users
use headphones so they don't feedback. I have even gotten good results
on wifi (believe it or not)! Not to mention, it is easy to compile on
servers that don't have the recent version in their repo.
It doesn't have video, but can be combined with something like zoom.
That is complicated, and doesn't work well with Windows, since Jamulus
needs Asio, and that takes over all audio on the system. I don't know
how zoom reacts to that, but that may take some additional testing with
Windows users.
With Jamulus, you can setup private and public servers. It is like an
internet chat room for audio where users can find a room and join.
Let me know if anything of what I typed interests you and I can gladly
talk to you about it more. The university I work at has been using it
now for about a year, and I used to do weekly jam sessions on it.
Brandon Hale
On 3/15/21 11:46 AM, Jeanette C. wrote:
Mar 15 2021, Lorenzo Sutton has written:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will
need to attend online music lessons (bass).
...
There is jamulus, which I believe is cross platform, but you have to
install a program. A friend of mine mostly teaches with Zoom, though
she's on mac for that and no idea what her students are using. :) I
can't think of any other free browser based tools.
Yesterday I heard of something called clean speech or cleaned speech,
intended for interviews, so no idea about latency and quality for
instruments.
HTH.
Best wishes,
Jeanette
8:47 p.m.
Brandon Hale <bthaleproductions(a)gmail.com> writes:
I have setup Jamulus servers at my institution, and I
think it is one
of the best for users of all operating systems. It is simple to setup
and get running, and has features like automatic recording of sessions
(it creates a DAW project file with stems!) It also gives users
control of personal mixes, which is a unique feature. It has decently
low latency and doesn't do any audio ducking like zoom does. Just make
sure users use headphones so they don't feedback. I have even gotten
good results on wifi (believe it or not)! Not to mention, it is easy
to compile on servers that don't have the recent version in their
repo.
It doesn't have video, but can be combined with something like
zoom. That is complicated, and doesn't work well with Windows, since
Jamulus needs Asio, and that takes over all audio on the system. I
don't know how zoom reacts to that, but that may take some additional
testing with Windows users.
It seems to be fairly common among Jamulus users to run a muted instance
of Jitsi (<https://meet.jit.si/whatever_you_want_to_call_your_room>) in
parallel. If your Internet connection is even slightly sketchy, that
may not be advisable regarding audio quality.
I held a (German) talk about Jamulus at the Chemnitzer Linuxtage
yesterday. Slides are linked from the talk site at
<https://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2021/de/programm/beitrag/120>. The
video is not available yet from the conference site, but at least the
prerecorded bulk of the session (before the last slide and without Q&A)
can be seen at <https://youtu.be/Vn1f70IH-Es>.
And with echo compensation removing any feedback I did not realise that
the live part of the talk was too loud and clipped, and my session host
had such lousy audio equipment that he did not notice (or mind) either.
So I am not sure how bearable that part would be to listen to anyway.
Probably worth checking out the slides and if you think you can make
sense of those in spite of the language (or cannot make sense of those
in spite of the language), viewing the video might help.
--
David Kastrup
16 Mar
16 Mar
10:14 a.m.
Dear all,
Thank you so much for all the interesting insight and suggestions :-)
Sorry if I can't answer individually for now, but I did real all the
emails, greatly appreciated. This mailing list rocks as usual ;-)
I'll try and test some of the proposed solutions trying to factor in all
of the elements and the fact that I need to try and not to
overcomplicate things for my teacher who - I imagine - is having to
set-up all of the lessons, re-schedule etc. (I'm the student here...).
I'll report back after my first remote lesson ;)
Lorenzo.
19 Mar
19 Mar
2:54 p.m.
On 16/03/21 09:14, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Dear all,
Thank you so much for all the interesting insight and suggestions :-)
Sorry if I can't answer individually for now, but I did real all the
emails, greatly appreciated. This mailing list rocks as usual ;-)
I'll try and test some of the proposed solutions trying to factor in all
of the elements and the fact that I need to try and not to
overcomplicate things for my teacher who - I imagine - is having to
set-up all of the lessons, re-schedule etc. (I'm the student here...).
I'll report back after my first remote lesson ;)
For anyone interested, it is a bit long, but hopefully interesting /
useful for other :)
For our first lesson yesterday we used Zoom for the sake of simplicity
(especially for my teacher and to facilitate their schedule). Audio
quality was decent on both ends), playing together was out of question
(but expected with any similar platform due to latency). My teacher did
point out that 'original audio' feature could improve audio quality even
more... Unfortunately, as said, it doesn't seem to be available on
Linux... Which is weird as you'd think that all of the funky 'noise
reduction' / 'echo cancellation' stuff should be 'additions' and easy
to
'turn off', not the reverse... I tried contacting Zoom but I assume they
will never answer.
In the meantime I did some tests (alone, using two laptops, see some
specs at the end) with:
- Discord [1]: sound quality was pretty good, especially after removing
all of the noise reduction, and 'auto' features and lowering to the
minimum 'voice activation' - and it does use Opus. It was not stereo
(which for bass is ok, but would be nice to have e.g. if playing a
backing track etc.). The nice thing was that video is included. I think
that in order to have more fine-grained control over audio you need to
download the client (so not using the web one), which does exist for
Linux. Both parties need to have a registered account to use this, which
might be a bit of a hassle for the other party who have to a) register
and create yet another account b) install yet another application. Also
log-in seems to require captcha and device verification (I guess due to
abuse); but this makes the sign-up process and first star quite
cumbersome. Audio is pulseaudio of course, which means pulseaudio sink
for jack. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Jami [2]: This is a P2P calling system and uses Opus. A bonus is that
it supports Jack directly. It worked ok and included video, but I did
notice a few dropouts and high CPU usage, and one end did crash at an
instance. All in all, it didn't seem the quality was much higher than
Discord. Also mono-only. But I think that's expected as this is probably
and evolution of SIP 'softphone0' clients (e.g. like Egika?). Account
creation is easy as you really just enter a name and username (no
central email registration etc. needed). It does require both parties
having an installed client. Again this last point might prove a bit of
an additional hassle. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Cleanfeed [3]: audio-only, web-only, freemium. Primarily aimed at
online broadcasting / podcasting / news. Considering that this works out
of the browser (Chrom* ones (including -ium) only officially supported
but they try to make it work also on Firefox), I was quite impressed by
the audio quality of the 'Music' setting available with the free account
(they offer even higher bitrates with the paid ones. As a bonus 'music'
is in stereo. I contacted support with a couple of questions and they
were very friendly and helpful and seem also quite knowledgeable about
Linux. The interesting feature here is that you just provide a link to
the other party who join through a browser. This being browser-based
also means you need pulseaudio and the sink if using jack (like in all
my tests). No video means setting up some other (muted) video service
for that. The browser-only link thing could make this relatively easy to
propose by just sending the link to my teacher once we start the zoom
call and having them use it for audio and mute their zoom, we shall see.
They are also quite straightforward in saying that this is not primarily
intended for online 'jamming'.
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online jamming-oriented with public
'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test and play
with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the central one.
With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own direct monitoring
latency was definitely acceptable and the audio quality pretty good.
Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this is probably the nicest to
use. Only thing for a teaching setting is the public-only servers (the
documentation mentions 'private' ones, but I haven't looked into if this
is possible without actually 'hosting' a server), there is a workaround
via soloing or muting others, but I don't think most teachers (nor
students) would feel comfortable with anyone possibly coming in and
listening to the lesson. Also video should be provided via some other
tool and, of course, all parties need to have the software installed.
That said this software is really well made and fun to use.
(aside note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the public
servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio trolling'
can hurt your ears... Not sure how this could be solved, maybe some
'reputation' system like on Stack overflow or similar.. but that does
have its flaws.. and it's another topic :-)
In all tests my set-up was the following:
Hardware:
- Bass -> cheap Bass DI [balanced out] -> ZOOM H5 in | [H5 also
providing microphone input via the included X/Y mics (so in 4-track mode]
In all cases the Laptop I hooked the ZOOM H5 to was connected via
network cable to the router. I'm also using (since about 1 week) an FTTH
connection. With the exception of Jamulus, I also tried connecting the
other test laptop via thetering 4G just to test what the other user
would potentially hear, and the results were always pretty good (I did
not however test the reverse).
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
- Where Jack was natively supported mic1+2 and input 3 were sent to the
application
- Where Jack was not supported I added the pulseaudio sink (I always
start that manually via a script I have since ages), with similar routing.
- All of the software (with the exception of Cleanfeed which is
web-based), I was able to find packaged for Manjaro either in the
official repositories or in AUR.
Things I'd like to try but din't have the chance to, yet:
- SonoBus [5]
- SoundJack [6]
- JackTrip [7]
[1]: https://discord.com/
[2]: https://jami.net/
[3]: https://cleanfeed.net/
[4]: https://jamulus.io/
[5]: https://sonobus.net/
[6]: https://www.soundjack.eu/
[7]: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/groups/soundwire/software/jacktrip/
3:51 p.m.
Hey Lorenzo,
As far as the Jamulus stuff, you can totally run a private server on
your main machine. The person connecting would just enter your ip and
port number the server is on and can connect to you directly. You have
to run the server from the shell to customize the options, but you can
use this command to do it:
Jamulus -s -n -o "*Server-Name*;*Location-name*;*area-code**(see documentation about
this)*" -w"*Server name*"
Just fill out the text that is in bold and you can run a private server.
Brandon Hale
On 3/19/21 8:53 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 16/03/21 09:14, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Dear all,
Thank you so much for all the interesting insight and suggestions :-)
Sorry if I can't answer individually for now, but I did real all the
emails, greatly appreciated. This mailing list rocks as usual ;-)
I'll try and test some of the proposed solutions trying to factor in
all of the elements and the fact that I need to try and not to
overcomplicate things for my teacher who - I imagine - is having to
set-up all of the lessons, re-schedule etc. (I'm the student
here...). I'll report back after my first remote lesson ;)
For anyone interested, it is a bit long, but hopefully interesting /
useful for other :)
For our first lesson yesterday we used Zoom for the sake of simplicity
(especially for my teacher and to facilitate their schedule). Audio
quality was decent on both ends), playing together was out of question
(but expected with any similar platform due to latency). My teacher
did point out that 'original audio' feature could improve audio
quality even more... Unfortunately, as said, it doesn't seem to be
available on Linux... Which is weird as you'd think that all of the
funky 'noise reduction' / 'echo cancellation' stuff should be
'additions' and easy to 'turn off', not the reverse... I tried
contacting Zoom but I assume they will never answer.
In the meantime I did some tests (alone, using two laptops, see some
specs at the end) with:
- Discord [1]: sound quality was pretty good, especially after
removing all of the noise reduction, and 'auto' features and lowering
to the minimum 'voice activation' - and it does use Opus. It was not
stereo (which for bass is ok, but would be nice to have e.g. if
playing a backing track etc.). The nice thing was that video is
included. I think that in order to have more fine-grained control over
audio you need to download the client (so not using the web one),
which does exist for Linux. Both parties need to have a registered
account to use this, which might be a bit of a hassle for the other
party who have to a) register and create yet another account b)
install yet another application. Also log-in seems to require captcha
and device verification (I guess due to abuse); but this makes the
sign-up process and first star quite cumbersome. Audio is pulseaudio
of course, which means pulseaudio sink for jack. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Jami [2]: This is a P2P calling system and uses Opus. A bonus is
that it supports Jack directly. It worked ok and included video, but I
did notice a few dropouts and high CPU usage, and one end did crash at
an instance. All in all, it didn't seem the quality was much higher
than Discord. Also mono-only. But I think that's expected as this is
probably and evolution of SIP 'softphone0' clients (e.g. like Egika?).
Account creation is easy as you really just enter a name and username
(no central email registration etc. needed). It does require both
parties having an installed client. Again this last point might prove
a bit of an additional hassle. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Cleanfeed [3]: audio-only, web-only, freemium. Primarily aimed at
online broadcasting / podcasting / news. Considering that this works
out of the browser (Chrom* ones (including -ium) only officially
supported but they try to make it work also on Firefox), I was quite
impressed by the audio quality of the 'Music' setting available with
the free account (they offer even higher bitrates with the paid ones.
As a bonus 'music' is in stereo. I contacted support with a couple of
questions and they were very friendly and helpful and seem also quite
knowledgeable about Linux. The interesting feature here is that you
just provide a link to the other party who join through a browser.
This being browser-based also means you need pulseaudio and the sink
if using jack (like in all my tests). No video means setting up some
other (muted) video service for that. The browser-only link thing
could make this relatively easy to propose by just sending the link to
my teacher once we start the zoom call and having them use it for
audio and mute their zoom, we shall see. They are also quite
straightforward in saying that this is not primarily intended for
online 'jamming'.
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online jamming-oriented with
public 'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test and
play with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the
central one. With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own direct
monitoring latency was definitely acceptable and the audio quality
pretty good. Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this is
probably the nicest to use. Only thing for a teaching setting is the
public-only servers (the documentation mentions 'private' ones, but I
haven't looked into if this is possible without actually 'hosting' a
server), there is a workaround via soloing or muting others, but I
don't think most teachers (nor students) would feel comfortable with
anyone possibly coming in and listening to the lesson. Also video
should be provided via some other tool and, of course, all parties
need to have the software installed.
That said this software is really well made and fun to use.
(aside note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the public
servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio trolling'
can hurt your ears... Not sure how this could be solved, maybe some
'reputation' system like on Stack overflow or similar.. but that does
have its flaws.. and it's another topic :-)
In all tests my set-up was the following:
Hardware:
- Bass -> cheap Bass DI [balanced out] -> ZOOM H5 in | [H5 also
providing microphone input via the included X/Y mics (so in 4-track mode]
In all cases the Laptop I hooked the ZOOM H5 to was connected via
network cable to the router. I'm also using (since about 1 week) an
FTTH connection. With the exception of Jamulus, I also tried
connecting the other test laptop via thetering 4G just to test what
the other user would potentially hear, and the results were always
pretty good (I did not however test the reverse).
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
- Where Jack was natively supported mic1+2 and input 3 were sent to
the application
- Where Jack was not supported I added the pulseaudio sink (I always
start that manually via a script I have since ages), with similar
routing.
- All of the software (with the exception of Cleanfeed which is
web-based), I was able to find packaged for Manjaro either in the
official repositories or in AUR.
Things I'd like to try but din't have the chance to, yet:
- SonoBus [5]
- SoundJack [6]
- JackTrip [7]
[1]: https://discord.com/
[2]: https://jami.net/
[3]: https://cleanfeed.net/
[4]: https://jamulus.io/
[5]: https://sonobus.net/
[6]: https://www.soundjack.eu/
[7]: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/groups/soundwire/software/jacktrip/
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:02 p.m.
New subject: Jamulus private server [WAS]: Re: online calls with decent auido for music lessons
Hi Brandon,
On 19/03/21 14:51, Brandon Hale wrote:
Hey Lorenzo,
As far as the Jamulus stuff, you can totally run a private server on
your main machine. The person connecting would just enter your ip and
port number the server is on and can connect to you directly. You have
to run the server from the shell to customize the options, but you can
use this command to do it:
Thanks for the hint. Will this work also with a dynamic IP and no port
forwarding set-up? I can tinker with that, I guess, but probably most
users wouldn't.
Ciao,
Lorenzo.
Jamulus -s -n -o "*Server-Name*;*Location-name*;*area-code**(see documentation about
this)*" -w"*Server name*"
Just fill out the text that is in bold and you can run a private server.
Brandon Hale
On 3/19/21 8:53 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 16/03/21 09:14, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Dear all,
Thank you so much for all the interesting insight and suggestions :-)
Sorry if I can't answer individually for now, but I did real all the
emails, greatly appreciated. This mailing list rocks as usual ;-)
I'll try and test some of the proposed solutions trying to factor in
all of the elements and the fact that I need to try and not to
overcomplicate things for my teacher who - I imagine - is having to
set-up all of the lessons, re-schedule etc. (I'm the student
here...). I'll report back after my first remote lesson ;)
For anyone interested, it is a bit long, but hopefully interesting /
useful for other :)
For our first lesson yesterday we used Zoom for the sake of simplicity
(especially for my teacher and to facilitate their schedule). Audio
quality was decent on both ends), playing together was out of question
(but expected with any similar platform due to latency). My teacher
did point out that 'original audio' feature could improve audio
quality even more... Unfortunately, as said, it doesn't seem to be
available on Linux... Which is weird as you'd think that all of the
funky 'noise reduction' / 'echo cancellation' stuff should be
'additions' and easy to 'turn off', not the reverse... I tried
contacting Zoom but I assume they will never answer.
In the meantime I did some tests (alone, using two laptops, see some
specs at the end) with:
- Discord [1]: sound quality was pretty good, especially after
removing all of the noise reduction, and 'auto' features and lowering
to the minimum 'voice activation' - and it does use Opus. It was not
stereo (which for bass is ok, but would be nice to have e.g. if
playing a backing track etc.). The nice thing was that video is
included. I think that in order to have more fine-grained control over
audio you need to download the client (so not using the web one),
which does exist for Linux. Both parties need to have a registered
account to use this, which might be a bit of a hassle for the other
party who have to a) register and create yet another account b)
install yet another application. Also log-in seems to require captcha
and device verification (I guess due to abuse); but this makes the
sign-up process and first star quite cumbersome. Audio is pulseaudio
of course, which means pulseaudio sink for jack. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Jami [2]: This is a P2P calling system and uses Opus. A bonus is
that it supports Jack directly. It worked ok and included video, but I
did notice a few dropouts and high CPU usage, and one end did crash at
an instance. All in all, it didn't seem the quality was much higher
than Discord. Also mono-only. But I think that's expected as this is
probably and evolution of SIP 'softphone0' clients (e.g. like Egika?).
Account creation is easy as you really just enter a name and username
(no central email registration etc. needed). It does require both
parties having an installed client. Again this last point might prove
a bit of an additional hassle. A 'mobile App' exists.
- Cleanfeed [3]: audio-only, web-only, freemium. Primarily aimed at
online broadcasting / podcasting / news. Considering that this works
out of the browser (Chrom* ones (including -ium) only officially
supported but they try to make it work also on Firefox), I was quite
impressed by the audio quality of the 'Music' setting available with
the free account (they offer even higher bitrates with the paid ones.
As a bonus 'music' is in stereo. I contacted support with a couple of
questions and they were very friendly and helpful and seem also quite
knowledgeable about Linux. The interesting feature here is that you
just provide a link to the other party who join through a browser.
This being browser-based also means you need pulseaudio and the sink
if using jack (like in all my tests). No video means setting up some
other (muted) video service for that. The browser-only link thing
could make this relatively easy to propose by just sending the link to
my teacher once we start the zoom call and having them use it for
audio and mute their zoom, we shall see. They are also quite
straightforward in saying that this is not primarily intended for
online 'jamming'.
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online jamming-oriented with
public 'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test and
play with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the
central one. With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own direct
monitoring latency was definitely acceptable and the audio quality
pretty good. Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this is
probably the nicest to use. Only thing for a teaching setting is the
public-only servers (the documentation mentions 'private' ones, but I
haven't looked into if this is possible without actually 'hosting' a
server), there is a workaround via soloing or muting others, but I
don't think most teachers (nor students) would feel comfortable with
anyone possibly coming in and listening to the lesson. Also video
should be provided via some other tool and, of course, all parties
need to have the software installed.
That said this software is really well made and fun to use.
(aside note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the public
servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio trolling'
can hurt your ears... Not sure how this could be solved, maybe some
'reputation' system like on Stack overflow or similar.. but that does
have its flaws.. and it's another topic :-)
In all tests my set-up was the following:
Hardware:
- Bass -> cheap Bass DI [balanced out] -> ZOOM H5 in | [H5 also
providing microphone input via the included X/Y mics (so in 4-track mode]
In all cases the Laptop I hooked the ZOOM H5 to was connected via
network cable to the router. I'm also using (since about 1 week) an
FTTH connection. With the exception of Jamulus, I also tried
connecting the other test laptop via thetering 4G just to test what
the other user would potentially hear, and the results were always
pretty good (I did not however test the reverse).
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
- Where Jack was natively supported mic1+2 and input 3 were sent to
the application
- Where Jack was not supported I added the pulseaudio sink (I always
start that manually via a script I have since ages), with similar
routing.
- All of the software (with the exception of Cleanfeed which is
web-based), I was able to find packaged for Manjaro either in the
official repositories or in AUR.
Things I'd like to try but din't have the chance to, yet:
- SonoBus [5]
- SoundJack [6]
- JackTrip [7]
[1]: https://discord.com/
[2]: https://jami.net/
[3]: https://cleanfeed.net/
[4]: https://jamulus.io/
[5]: https://sonobus.net/
[6]: https://www.soundjack.eu/
[7]: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/groups/soundwire/software/jacktrip/
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4:13 p.m.
New subject: Jamulus private server [WAS]: Re: online calls with decent auido for music lessons
I don't know, you will have to try it. The machine I run it on has a
static ip.
Brandon Hale
On 3/19/21 10:02 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi Brandon,
On 19/03/21 14:51, Brandon Hale wrote:
Hey Lorenzo,
As far as the Jamulus stuff, you can totally run a private server on
your main machine. The person connecting would just enter your ip and
port number the server is on and can connect to you directly. You
have to run the server from the shell to customize the options, but
you can use this command to do it:
Thanks for the hint. Will this work also with a dynamic IP and no port
forwarding set-up? I can tinker with that, I guess, but probably most
users wouldn't.
Ciao,
Lorenzo.
Jamulus -s -n -o "*Server-Name*;*Location-name*;*area-code**(see
documentation about this)*" -w"*Server name*"
Just fill out the text that is in bold and you can run a private server.
Brandon Hale
On 3/19/21 8:53 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
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Dear all,
Thank you so much for all the interesting insight and suggestions :-)
Sorry if I can't answer individually for now, but I did real all
the emails, greatly appreciated. This mailing list rocks as usual ;-)
I'll try and test some of the proposed solutions trying to factor
in all of the elements and the fact that I need to try and not to
overcomplicate things for my teacher who - I imagine - is having to
set-up all of the lessons, re-schedule etc. (I'm the student
here...). I'll report back after my first remote lesson ;)
For anyone interested, it is a bit long, but hopefully interesting /
useful for other :)
For our first lesson yesterday we used Zoom for the sake of
simplicity (especially for my teacher and to facilitate their
schedule). Audio quality was decent on both ends), playing together
was out of question (but expected with any similar platform due to
latency). My teacher did point out that 'original audio' feature
could improve audio quality even more... Unfortunately, as said, it
doesn't seem to be available on Linux... Which is weird as you'd
think that all of the funky 'noise reduction' / 'echo cancellation'
stuff should be 'additions' and easy to 'turn off', not the
reverse... I tried contacting Zoom but I assume they will never answer.
In the meantime I did some tests (alone, using two laptops, see some
specs at the end) with:
- Discord [1]: sound quality was pretty good, especially after
removing all of the noise reduction, and 'auto' features and
lowering to the minimum 'voice activation' - and it does use Opus.
It was not stereo (which for bass is ok, but would be nice to have
e.g. if playing a backing track etc.). The nice thing was that video
is included. I think that in order to have more fine-grained control
over audio you need to download the client (so not using the web
one), which does exist for Linux. Both parties need to have a
registered account to use this, which might be a bit of a hassle for
the other party who have to a) register and create yet another
account b) install yet another application. Also log-in seems to
require captcha and device verification (I guess due to abuse); but
this makes the sign-up process and first star quite cumbersome.
Audio is pulseaudio of course, which means pulseaudio sink for jack.
A 'mobile App' exists.
- Jami [2]: This is a P2P calling system and uses Opus. A bonus is
that it supports Jack directly. It worked ok and included video, but
I did notice a few dropouts and high CPU usage, and one end did
crash at an instance. All in all, it didn't seem the quality was
much higher than Discord. Also mono-only. But I think that's
expected as this is probably and evolution of SIP 'softphone0'
clients (e.g. like Egika?). Account creation is easy as you really
just enter a name and username (no central email registration etc.
needed). It does require both parties having an installed client.
Again this last point might prove a bit of an additional hassle. A
'mobile App' exists.
- Cleanfeed [3]: audio-only, web-only, freemium. Primarily aimed at
online broadcasting / podcasting / news. Considering that this works
out of the browser (Chrom* ones (including -ium) only officially
supported but they try to make it work also on Firefox), I was quite
impressed by the audio quality of the 'Music' setting available with
the free account (they offer even higher bitrates with the paid
ones. As a bonus 'music' is in stereo. I contacted support with a
couple of questions and they were very friendly and helpful and seem
also quite knowledgeable about Linux. The interesting feature here
is that you just provide a link to the other party who join through
a browser. This being browser-based also means you need pulseaudio
and the sink if using jack (like in all my tests). No video means
setting up some other (muted) video service for that. The
browser-only link thing could make this relatively easy to propose
by just sending the link to my teacher once we start the zoom call
and having them use it for audio and mute their zoom, we shall see.
They are also quite straightforward in saying that this is not
primarily intended for online 'jamming'.
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online jamming-oriented with
public 'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test
and play with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the
central one. With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own
direct monitoring latency was definitely acceptable and the audio
quality pretty good. Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this
is probably the nicest to use. Only thing for a teaching setting is
the public-only servers (the documentation mentions 'private' ones,
but I haven't looked into if this is possible without actually
'hosting' a server), there is a workaround via soloing or muting
others, but I don't think most teachers (nor students) would feel
comfortable with anyone possibly coming in and listening to the
lesson. Also video should be provided via some other tool and, of
course, all parties need to have the software installed.
That said this software is really well made and fun to use.
(aside note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the
public servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio
trolling' can hurt your ears... Not sure how this could be solved,
maybe some 'reputation' system like on Stack overflow or similar..
but that does have its flaws.. and it's another topic :-)
In all tests my set-up was the following:
Hardware:
- Bass -> cheap Bass DI [balanced out] -> ZOOM H5 in | [H5 also
providing microphone input via the included X/Y mics (so in 4-track
mode]
In all cases the Laptop I hooked the ZOOM H5 to was connected via
network cable to the router. I'm also using (since about 1 week) an
FTTH connection. With the exception of Jamulus, I also tried
connecting the other test laptop via thetering 4G just to test what
the other user would potentially hear, and the results were always
pretty good (I did not however test the reverse).
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
- Where Jack was natively supported mic1+2 and input 3 were sent to
the application
- Where Jack was not supported I added the pulseaudio sink (I
always start that manually via a script I have since ages), with
similar routing.
- All of the software (with the exception of Cleanfeed which is
web-based), I was able to find packaged for Manjaro either in the
official repositories or in AUR.
Things I'd like to try but din't have the chance to, yet:
- SonoBus [5]
- SoundJack [6]
- JackTrip [7]
[1]: https://discord.com/
[2]: https://jami.net/
[3]: https://cleanfeed.net/
[4]: https://jamulus.io/
[5]: https://sonobus.net/
[6]: https://www.soundjack.eu/
[7]: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/groups/soundwire/software/jacktrip/
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4:24 p.m.
New subject: Jamulus private server [WAS]: Re: online calls with decent auido for music lessons
Brandon Hale <bthaleproductions(a)gmail.com> writes:
I don't know, you will have to try it. The machine
I run it on has a
static ip.
Most Internet modems have separate tabs for entering the details of a
DynDNS account, and there are several DynDNS providers offering at least
a small set of names without cost.
--
David Kastrup
4:31 p.m.
New subject: Jamulus private server [WAS]: Re: online calls with decent auido for music lessons
Just to mention a small alternative to dyndns that can work for some cases
(e.g. me). If you have a web host somewhere with a known IP, then you can
run something like this from cron, meaning that REMOTE_HOST/lastlog
"always" contains the "current" IP address of your dynamic system. I
use
this to make sure I can always log in to my home machine (aka the Ardour
build system for Linux & Windows & some macOS builds) as long as I can get
into ardour.org and cat lastlog.
#!/bin/sh
ip=`curl --silent ipinfo.io/ip`
ssh -i $SUITABLE_SSH_KEY REMOTE_HOST "echo $ip > lastlog"
exit 0
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:25 AM David Kastrup <dak(a)gnu.org> wrote:
Brandon Hale <bthaleproductions(a)gmail.com>
writes:
I don't know, you will have to try it. The
machine I run it on has a
static ip.
Most Internet modems have separate tabs for entering the details of a
DynDNS account, and there are several DynDNS providers offering at least
a small set of names without cost.
--
David Kastrup
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4:22 p.m.
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com> writes:
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online
jamming-oriented with
public 'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test
and play with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the
central one. With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own
direct monitoring latency was definitely acceptable and the audio
quality pretty good. Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this
is probably the nicest to use. Only thing for a teaching setting is
the public-only servers (the documentation mentions 'private' ones,
but I haven't looked into if this is possible without actually
'hosting' a server),
I could rent one out to you, assuming my cloud provider has some
facility in reasonable vicinity to you.
As a first measure however, you could easily run one yourself on your
own computer (running Jamulus with the -s option runs one on your
computer). This requires punching a port through the firewall in your
Internet router and either phoning your external IP address to the
student (depending on your Internet provider, it may be fairly constant)
or setting the router up to communicate with a DynDNS account giving you
a constant name.
If your computer has enough performance and you connect your own Jamulus
client to "localhost" rather than going through the network, for a
one-on-one session it may work. However, it means that the student
audio goes in and out the student's Internet connection and in and out
your own Internet connection. Using a cloud server has the advantage of
halving the number of home-level routers that the student roundtrip (not
your own one) has to pass through. And the student is less likely to
routinely deal with that latency than you would be after a while.
Of course, this consideration is moot if there is no cloud computing
facility in closer "networking" vicinity than the trip through your
private connection would take. It may also depend on whether you and
your student share the same provider, making it more likely that routing
is able to bypass the central "Internet Highways" that tend to be
"near"
the cloud servers.
there is a workaround via soloing or muting others,
but I don't think
most teachers (nor students) would feel comfortable with anyone
possibly coming in and listening to the lesson. Also video should be
provided via some other tool and, of course, all parties need to have
the software installed.
You get used to doing without.
That said this software is really well made and fun to
use. (aside
note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the public
servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio trolling'
can hurt your ears...
That sounds more like the typical "instructions are just
recommendations" newbie not taking serious the need to use headphones
when working without echo compensation and auto-ducking.
You know, like the only person in the conference call not affected by
echoes after they figured out they could just switch off echo
compensation without having their connection deteriorate.
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
Oh, can you just put the headphones right next to the mics (makes
astonishingly little difference in comparison to direct connections) and
use jack_iodelay for measuring out the latency of the H5 with your
settings?
Numbers are surprisingly hard to come by for any audio interface.
--
David Kastrup
4:35 p.m.
Hi David,
On 19/03/21 15:22, David Kastrup wrote:
Let's give them the benefit of doubt... Raise hands who hasnt forgot to
turn the amp down before unplugging a jack, etc. The user in question
did have a somewhat trollish name, but - again - ignoring them did work
eventually :-)
What exactly would you like me to measure? Roundtrip latency of _my own_
signal when using Jamulus, or...?
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>
writes:
That all makes sense and thanks for the tips and kind offer... There is
the 'speed of light' factor after all.
Thing is.. _I_ amd the student (blush..) here, so the idea is not to
over-bourden my teacher who is probably already having to cope with
setting-up the calls, schedules etc. :-)
I would be interested to see if I can actually get my band to try this
out since it's months we can't play together live :-(
- Jamulus [4]: audio-only, realtime online
jamming-oriented with
public 'servers', jack-native. This was actually real fun to test
and play with. I tried some close-by servers and jammed a bit in the
central one. With 128 frames set in JACK and using Jamulus' own
direct monitoring latency was definitely acceptable and the audio
quality pretty good. Audio-quality and music-friendliness wise this
is probably the nicest to use. Only thing for a teaching setting is
the public-only servers (the documentation mentions 'private' ones,
but I haven't looked into if this is possible without actually
'hosting' a server),
I could rent one out to you, assuming my cloud provider has some
facility in reasonable vicinity to you.
As a first measure however, you could easily run one yourself on your
own computer (running Jamulus with the -s option runs one on your
computer). This requires punching a port through the firewall in your
Internet router and either phoning your external IP address to the
student (depending on your Internet provider, it may be fairly constant)
or setting the router up to communicate with a DynDNS account giving you
a constant name.
If your computer has enough performance and you connect your own Jamulus
client to "localhost" rather than going through the network, for a
one-on-one session it may work. However, it means that the student
audio goes in and out the student's Internet connection and in and out
your own Internet connection. Using a cloud server has the advantage of
halving the number of home-level routers that the student roundtrip (not
your own one) has to pass through. And the student is less likely to
routinely deal with that latency than you would be after a while.
Of course, this consideration is moot if there is no cloud computing
facility in closer "networking" vicinity than the trip through your
private connection would take. It may also depend on whether you and
your student share the same provider, making it more likely that routing
is able to bypass the central "Internet Highways" that tend to be
"near"
the cloud servers. there is a workaround via soloing or muting
others, but I don't think
most teachers (nor students) would feel comfortable with anyone
possibly coming in and listening to the lesson. Also video should be
provided via some other tool and, of course, all parties need to have
the software installed.
You get used to doing without.
That said this software is really well made and
fun to use. (aside
note there were a couple of 'troll' events in one of the public
servers, and although they say don't feed the trolls 'audio trolling'
can hurt your ears...
That sounds more like the typical "instructions are just
recommendations" newbie not taking serious the need to use headphones
when working without echo compensation and auto-ducking.
You know, like the only person in the conference call not affected by
echoes after they figured out they could just switch off echo
compensation without having their connection deteriorate. Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
Oh, can you just put the headphones right next to the mics (makes
astonishingly little difference in comparison to direct connections) and
use jack_iodelay for measuring out the latency of the H5 with your
settings?
Numbers are surprisingly hard to come by for any audio interface.
So true...
Lorenzo
4:58 p.m.
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com> writes:
What exactly would you like me to measure? Roundtrip latency of _my
own_ signal when using Jamulus, or...?
Not involving Jamulus at all. Just the raw mic-to-headphone delay when
using jackd at your usual settings (likely 128 or 64 samples per
period).
--
David Kastrup
That all makes sense and thanks for the tips and kind
offer... There
is the 'speed of light' factor after all.
Don't overestimate it, at least in Europe. If we reduce speed of light
to a third (to account for back-and-forth and probably overoptimistic
repeater performance), 1ms is good for 100km. That doesn't bode well
for world-wide jamming, but with countries as small as those in Europe,
at least nationally it's workable.
Thing is.. _I_ amd the student (blush..) here, so the
idea is not to
over-bourden my teacher who is probably already having to cope with
setting-up the calls, schedules etc. :-)
Ah, ok. Of course, "used to compensating latency" is not really a
specific "teacher" skill unless we are talking latency-heavy instruments
like some organs.
I would be interested to see if I can actually get my
band to try this
out since it's months we can't play together live :-(
Looks like I need to work on subtitles for
<https://youtu.be/Vn1f70IH-Es> (my talk on Jamulus at the Chemnitzer
Linuxtage last Sunday, in German). Or maybe start by translating at
least the slides.
Software:
- Jack
- Zoom H5 shows 4 inputs in jack: the L/R mics and the inputs 1 and 2
Oh, can you
just put the headphones right next to the mics (makes
astonishingly little difference in comparison to direct connections) and
use jack_iodelay for measuring out the latency of the H5 with your
settings? Numbers are
surprisingly hard to come by for any audio interface.
So true...
Lorenzo 
15 Mar
15 Mar
5:57 p.m.
Hi, if you don't have to play simultaneously with students, Zoom or
Jitsi (FLOSS) can do it. I use jitsi for online course and it works
nicely, but with some latency, so no way to play with students. If you
have to play with them, Jamulus can do it with good settings (no wifi,
you must have 2 computers, one for jamulus 'server' - no need a real
server, just the jamulus server app- and another for jamulus app). But
students needs a computer and sound card, etc... Zoom (which have a
Linux app) or Jitsi can be used on phone/tablet or computer, so more
flexible but doesn't allow to play simultaneously without problematic
layency.
My 2cts
Nico
Le 15/03/2021 à 16:37, Lorenzo Sutton a écrit :
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will
need to attend online music lessons (bass). The suggested tool is zoom
with 'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not
available on Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' (or maybe it's echo
cancellation) to low seemed to work OK, but I'm wondering if anyone
knows of any work-arounds.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds promising).
The one used for the last LAC seemed also quite nice, but I guess
that's not free (as in 'gratis')? As zoom is the tool selected by the
music school it should also be something relatively hassle-free for
the teacher and cross-platform (i.e. assume they will not be on Linux,
so no funky stuff like having to install a Mumble server etc. :-| ...
Although the offers on mumble.com seem quite reasonable, but has
anyone used it for music?)
I _am_ already able to set-up e.g. my Zoom H5 (the device not the
software) or usb audio interface via JACK to have a decent mic/input
at the source and then pulseaudio-jack sink for audio I/O with these
apps (I actually helped my son do remote drum lessons which included
piping smplayer via jack to him locally and his teacher as well as the
e-drum line out with JACK).
But of course there's no much point in having decent quality at the
source if the software is doing funky stuff like noise reduction and
echo cancellation at the source :-|
Any suggestion welcome.
Lorenzo.
[1] e.g.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/original_sound_and_stereo_opt…
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115003279466-Enabling-option-to-p…
[2]
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6:45 p.m.
* Nicolas Faure <sub26nico(a)zaclys.net> [2021-03-15 16:57]:
Hi, if you don't have to play simultaneously with
students, Zoom or Jitsi
(FLOSS) can do it. I use jitsi for online course and it works nicely, but
with some latency, so no way to play with students. If you have to play with
Same
here, I use Jitsi as its own software on linux with jack, great to
route sounds from and to the video conference and various audio
applications.
6:04 p.m.
In data lunedì 15 marzo 2021 16:37:44 CET, Lorenzo Sutton ha scritto:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area
I know what you’re talking about, <sigh>... :-(
The suggested tool is zoom with
'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' [...] to low
[...] but I'm wondering if anyone knows of any work-arounds.
Unfortunately there is no such option. I have tried many times to search the
web for solutions, but all I could find is a discussion on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/
original_sound_and_stereo_options_missing_on/
which suggests a hacky workaround that I have not tried.
Anyway the “low” noise reduction seems to be (ugh...) acceptable.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which
sounds promising).
I think Jamulus should do a much better job, I would like to try it. However
it is an audio only solution, so you still have to use Zoom or whatever to see
other participants.
By the way, looks like you’re Italian, like me. If you want to try Jamulus, I
would be glad to experiment with you.
ciao
Francesco Napoleoni
7:39 p.m.
Hi,
I can always throw in Soundjack, which is not FLOSS but freeware. We now
provide Mixing Servers that scale up to 64 Participants (Although only
32 are tested yet), possible at any AWS region (I know a pact with the
devil). Soundjack has no video yet, but it is on the roadmap.
Soundjack is available for Linux, MacOSX and Windoof.
If you want low latency streaming, it always comes with a little hassle
of configuring the computer system the right way. It does not work with
onboard soundcards very well, for example.
From experience, you should stick to Zoom for this, because it is a lot
of work to get the audio system of any participant to work with any of
the low latency streaming solutions. Don't underestimate this!
That's why we tested only 32 participants so far.
BR
Ck
On 15.03.21 17:04, Francesco Napoleoni wrote:
In data lunedì 15 marzo 2021 16:37:44 CET, Lorenzo
Sutton ha scritto:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area
I know what you’re talking about, <sigh>... :-(
The suggested tool is zoom with
'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' [...] to low
[...] but I'm wondering if anyone knows of any work-arounds.
Unfortunately there is no such option. I have tried many times to search the
web for solutions, but all I could find is a discussion on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/
original_sound_and_stereo_options_missing_on/
which suggests a hacky workaround that I have not tried.
Anyway the “low” noise reduction seems to be (ugh...) acceptable.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus
which sounds promising).
I think Jamulus should do a much better job, I would like to try it. However
it is an audio only solution, so you still have to use Zoom or whatever to see
other participants.
By the way, looks like you’re Italian, like me. If you want to try Jamulus, I
would be glad to experiment with you.
ciao
Francesco Napoleoni
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7:40 p.m.
Btw: www.soundjack.eu
On 15.03.21 18:39, Christoph Kuhr wrote:
Hi,
I can always throw in Soundjack, which is not FLOSS but freeware. We now
provide Mixing Servers that scale up to 64 Participants (Although only
32 are tested yet), possible at any AWS region (I know a pact with the
devil). Soundjack has no video yet, but it is on the roadmap.
Soundjack is available for Linux, MacOSX and Windoof.
If you want low latency streaming, it always comes with a little hassle
of configuring the computer system the right way. It does not work with
onboard soundcards very well, for example.
From experience, you should stick to Zoom for this, because it is a lot
of work to get the audio system of any participant to work with any of
the low latency streaming solutions. Don't underestimate this!
That's why we tested only 32 participants so far.
BR
Ck
On 15.03.21 17:04, Francesco Napoleoni wrote:
> In data lunedì 15 marzo 2021 16:37:44 CET, Lorenzo Sutton ha scritto:
>> Hi LAU,
>>
>> As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area
>
> I know what you’re talking about, <sigh>... :-(
>
>> The suggested tool is zoom with
>> 'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
>> Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
>>
>> In the past setting the 'noise reduction' [...] to low
>> [...] but I'm wondering if anyone knows of any work-arounds.
>
> Unfortunately there is no such option. I have tried many times to
> search the
> web for solutions, but all I could find is a discussion on reddit:
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/
> original_sound_and_stereo_options_missing_on/
>
> which suggests a hacky workaround that I have not tried.
>
> Anyway the “low” noise reduction seems to be (ugh...) acceptable.
>
>> Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds
>> promising).
>
> I think Jamulus should do a much better job, I would like to try it.
> However
> it is an audio only solution, so you still have to use Zoom or
> whatever to see
> other participants.
>
> By the way, looks like you’re Italian, like me. If you want to try
> Jamulus, I
> would be glad to experiment with you.
>
> ciao
> Francesco Napoleoni
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
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7:18 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 15, 2021 at 04:37:44PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which
sounds
promising).
I haven't used any of these myself, but maybe:
- https://elk.audio/aloha/ (designed for low-latency online jams)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jami_(software) (FOSS P2P
videoconferencing - not sure about latency; various codecs available
including Opus).
- zita-njbridge (though this might be too techie for the other party).
Also, I have tried Signal in the past:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software) . I have some
misgivings about Signal's ethics (Signal devs have been abhorrently
hostile to packaging in F-Droid & distro repos, & sometimes take a
denialist approach to bug reports). I also haven't measured latency or
closely checked audio quality. But it is popular, usable,
cross-platform FOSS videoconferencing software.
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7:57 p.m.
On 3/15/21 11:37 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will
need to attend online music lessons (bass). The suggested tool is zoom
with 'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not
available on Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' (or maybe it's echo
cancellation) to low seemed to work OK, but I'm wondering if anyone
knows of any work-arounds.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds promising).
...
Any suggestion welcome.
Lorenzo.
Hi Lorenzo,
FWIW, I've been teaching online since last March, using Skype on Ubuntu
18.04. It has not been a flawless experience, due less to any particular
shortcomings with Skype and more to do with inevitable circumstances
beyond my control. The audio on my end varies from student to student -
each has a unique hardware condition - but I use a decent USB microphone
to ensure the audio quality coming from the studio.
The variables can be intensely frustrating. I teach a student living two
hundred miles away who typically gets a better connection than another
student only two miles from my home. I'm glad for the precautions, but
I'm looking forward to teaching mostly in the studio again.
Best regards,
Dave Phillips
8 p.m.
Hi Lorenzo,
yet another option could be the ovbox:
https://github.com/gisogrimm/ovbox/wiki
Works also as a command line application. It uses jack for audio,
provides spatial audio, and relies on zita-njbridge for the
audio-to-network conversion and back (including adaptive resampling).
Completely open source.
Delays should be similar to those provided by jacktrip or soundjack, and
quality will mostly depend on the last mile of the internet connection.
Best,
Giso
On 15.03.21 16:37, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will need
to attend online music lessons (bass). The suggested tool is zoom with
'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' (or maybe it's echo
cancellation) to low seemed to work OK, but I'm wondering if anyone
knows of any work-arounds.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds promising).
The one used for the last LAC seemed also quite nice, but I guess that's
not free (as in 'gratis')? As zoom is the tool selected by the music
school it should also be something relatively hassle-free for the
teacher and cross-platform (i.e. assume they will not be on Linux, so no
funky stuff like having to install a Mumble server etc. :-| ... Although
the offers on mumble.com seem quite reasonable, but has anyone used it
for music?)
I _am_ already able to set-up e.g. my Zoom H5 (the device not the
software) or usb audio interface via JACK to have a decent mic/input at
the source and then pulseaudio-jack sink for audio I/O with these apps
(I actually helped my son do remote drum lessons which included piping
smplayer via jack to him locally and his teacher as well as the e-drum
line out with JACK).
But of course there's no much point in having decent quality at the
source if the software is doing funky stuff like noise reduction and
echo cancellation at the source :-|
Any suggestion welcome.
Lorenzo.
[1] e.g.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g9qu9v/original_sound_and_stereo_opt…
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/115003279466-Enabling-option-to-p…
[2]
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19 Mar
19 Mar
4:47 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 16:37:44 +0100
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi LAU,
As we're entering a 'tighter' lock-down in my area this week I will need
to attend online music lessons (bass). The suggested tool is zoom with
'original sound' option selected, but it seems this is not available on
Linux (nor in a web (chrome?) client) [1].
In the past setting the 'noise reduction' (or maybe it's echo
cancellation) to low seemed to work OK, but I'm wondering if anyone
knows of any work-arounds.
Or any other platform (Discord seems to use Opus which sounds promising).
The one used for the last LAC seemed also quite nice, but I guess that's
not free (as in 'gratis')? As zoom is the tool selected by the music
school it should also be something relatively hassle-free for the
teacher and cross-platform (i.e. assume they will not be on Linux, so no
funky stuff like having to install a Mumble server etc. :-| ... Although
the offers on mumble.com seem quite reasonable, but has anyone used it
for music?)
I _am_ already able to set-up e.g. my Zoom H5 (the device not the
software) or usb audio interface via JACK to have a decent mic/input at
the source and then pulseaudio-jack sink for audio I/O with these apps
(I actually helped my son do remote drum lessons which included piping
smplayer via jack to him locally and his teacher as well as the e-drum
line out with JACK).
But of course there's no much point in having decent quality at the
source if the software is doing funky stuff like noise reduction and
echo cancellation at the source :-|
Any suggestion welcome.
Lorenzo.
Very interesting. Thanks for letting us know.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
http://yoshimi.github.io
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
1392
days inactive
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
23 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Brandon Hale -
Christoph Kuhr -
Christopher Arndt -
Dave Phillips -
David Kastrup -
Francesco Napoleoni -
Giso Grimm -
Jeanette C. -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Nicolas Faure -
Paul Davis -
Peter P. -
Sam Kuper -
Will Godfrey