14 Sep
2011
14 Sep
'11
10:43 a.m.
Greetings,
Hopefully someone here has a similar setup and can help me out.
Yesterday I installed a nice new Seagate 1T drive in my main machine. No
problems with the physical installation, and the BIOS recognizes the
drive. Next I installed Fedora 14 (x86_64) on the new drive. Again, no
problems with the actual installation. On reboot my troubles started.
I already have a system on this machine, an ancient 64 Studio 2.1 that
works beautifully. Alas, it's very old, hence the second drive and new
install. The old system is on /dev/sda1, with a swap at /dev/sda5. The
new disk is /dev/sdb, and the new system is on /dev/sdb1 and /dev/sdb2.
On reboot the machine went directly to the old grub menu for 64 Studio,
which had no entry for Fedora.
Before going further, I should note that I can't even mount the new disk
while in 64 Studio. The older system doesn't recognize ext4 file
systems, so I can't access the second drive.
Okay, back to the boot. I used AV Linux to access the new drive and
copied its grub entry to the old grub. Now when I boot I can see and
select the Fedora entry, but I receive errors whether I attempt the boot
from sdb1(hd1,0) or sdb2 (hd1,1). Sorry, I don't remember the error
numbers, I'll get them and send them if needed. The installation media
was without checksum errors, so the installed system should be ready to
go. I just can't figure out how to boot into it from my existing menu.
So my questions are: How can I get this machine to recognize the new
installation ? Do I need to re-install and manually configure grub ? Is
the 64 Studio boot loader simply too old to handle the new configuration
? The new grub menu.lst include a line "boot=/dev/sdb" but it appears to
mean nothing to the older grub.
I've pasted what I think are the relevant contents of the 64 Studio
menu.lst at the end of this message, in case anyone cares to investigate
and advise. I don't mind re-installing if necessary, but it would be
nice to avoid that expenditure of time. Suggestions for fixing would be
much appreciated. :)
Best,
dp
-------------------- begin 64 Studio grub menu.lst -----------------------
title 64 Studio, kernel 2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 root=/dev/sda1 ro
vga=771 splash=silent
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
savedefault
title 64 Studio, kernel 2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 (single-user mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 root=/dev/sda1 ro
vga=771 splash=silent single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
savedefault
------------------- the new addition ------------------
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
# NOTICE: You have a /boot partition. This means that
# all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
# root (hd0,0)
# kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root
# initrd /initrd-[generic-]version.img
# boot=/dev/sdb
# default=0
# timeout=0
# splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
# hiddenmenu
title Fedora (2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64 ro
root=/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_root
rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_swap rd_NO_LUKS rd_NO_MD rd_NO_DM LANG=en_US.UTF-8
SYSFONT=latarcyrheb-sun16 KEYTABLE=us rhgb quiet
initrd /initramfs-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64.img
14 Sep
14 Sep
11:29 a.m.
On 09/14/2011 12:43 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
# boot=/dev/sdb
# default=0
# timeout=0
# splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
# hiddenmenu
title Fedora (2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64 ro
root=/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_root
rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_swap rd_NO_LUKS rd_NO_MD rd_NO_DM LANG=en_US.UTF-8
SYSFONT=latarcyrheb-sun16 KEYTABLE=us rhgb quiet
initrd /initramfs-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64.img
Hello Dave,
This looks like Grub2 stuff but I found here F14 uses Grub legacy:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/14/html/Installation_Guide/s1-x8…
If your F14 install uses Grub2 I would recommend reinstalling Grub2 from
F14 onto your first disk. Anyway you could check which Grub version your
F14 install is using?
Steps to install Grub2 onto your first harddisk (/dev/sda):
- boot with F14 live CD into a live session
- open terminal and become root
- mount your F14 install with *mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt* (assuming root and
/boot are on that partition)
- mount /dev, /proc and /sys:
*mount --bind /dev /mnt/dev
mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys
mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc*
- chroot into your mounted F14 install: *chroot /mnt*
- update your Grub config to include all the OS's: *update-grub*
- install Grub into the MBR of your first harddisk: *grub-install /dev/sda*
Best,
Jeremy
3:11 p.m.
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
This looks like Grub2 stuff but I found here F14 uses
Grub legacy ...
Hi Jeremy,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. Unfortunately they didn't work.
/dev/sdb1 contains only the grub directory, the kernel image, and a few
other files. Neither /root nor /boot are present on sdb1.
When I tried to mount /dev/sdb2 I got an error that said the filesystem
(LVM-something) was unrecognized. I find it fascinating that a file
system installed by Fedora 14 is not recognizable by Fedora 14. Sigh.
Well, unless anyone has a better idea, I'm not wasting any more time on
Fedora, sad to say.
So what 64-bit system do other LAUyers prefer ?
Best,
dp
3:55 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>wrote;wrote:
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
list.
I'd offer suggestions, but I'm still on FC12 and haven't run into the
issue you're describing.
--Steve
This looks like Grub2 stuff but I found here F14
uses Grub legacy ...
Hi Jeremy,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. Unfortunately they didn't work.
/dev/sdb1 contains only the grub directory, the kernel image, and a few
other files. Neither /root nor /boot are present on sdb1.
When I tried to mount /dev/sdb2 I got an error that said the filesystem
(LVM-something) was unrecognized. I find it fascinating that a file system
installed by Fedora 14 is not recognizable by Fedora 14. Sigh.
Well, unless anyone has a better idea, I'm not wasting any more time on
Fedora, sad to say.
So what 64-bit system do other LAUyers prefer ?
Best,
dp
Might want to post this to the Planet CCRMA or some other Fedora related 
4:33 p.m.
On 9/14/11, S C Rigler <riglersc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Dave Phillips
<dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>wrote;wrote:
>
> So what 64-bit system do other LAUyers prefer ?
I swear by Arch linux, though it is not a straight-forward process;
not difficult, but takes some time.
The archwiki is an excellent resource for all common (and not so
common) tasks, such as installing Xorg and a DM/WM, which you will
have to do manually.
4:35 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
the fundamental problem here is that Fedora uses LVM as its default
partition type, and this is not supported by a variety of older/other
linux distributions.
you can mount the LVM disk, but not by just using mount(1). i've had
to do this a few times, and it is *MINDBLOWINGLY* difficult. i don't
even recall the command set i had to use. i think it was the md* tools
(mdadm etc).
the upside of using LVM is that you can endlessly reconfigure the
partition(s) (bigger or smaller), including adding/removing other
drives with almost no effort whatsoever. the downside is that if you
just want the disk to be /dev/sdb<foo> ... its not so easy.
i believe that fedora and/or redhat went through quite a long debate
about this, and ultimately decided that the overall benefits of LVM
vs. just ext(3|4) outweighed the drawbacks. obviously, this doesn't
mean that its true in every case. i'd also guess that its true for
most RedHat users and not true for most Fedora users.
This looks like Grub2 stuff but I found here F14 uses Grub legacy ...
Hi Jeremy,
Thank you for the detailed instructions. Unfortunately they didn't work.
/dev/sdb1 contains only the grub directory, the kernel image, and a few
other files. Neither /root nor /boot are present on sdb1.
When I tried to mount /dev/sdb2 I got an error that said the filesystem
(LVM-something) was unrecognized. I find it fascinating that a file system
installed by Fedora 14 is not recognizable by Fedora 14. Sigh.
Well, unless anyone has a better idea, I'm not wasting any more time on
Fedora, sad to say. 
5:30 p.m.
Egor Sanin wrote:
On 9/14/11, S C Rigler <riglersc(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Arch Linux is a mystery to me.
I prefer Debian Sid, particularly Aptosid.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Dave Phillips
<dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>wrote;wrote:
> So what 64-bit system do other LAUyers prefer ?
I swear by Arch linux, though it is not a straight-forward process;
not difficult, but takes some time.
The archwiki is an excellent resource for all common (and not so
common) tasks, such as installing Xorg and a DM/WM, which you will
have to do manually.
6:02 p.m.
Paul Davis wrote:
the fundamental problem here is that Fedora uses LVM
as its default
partition type, and this is not supported by a variety of older/other
linux distributions.
...
Thanks, Paul, at least now I know *why* the process is a pain.
IIUC, I should be able to mount the partition with the live disc, just
not with the mount command. My mind is near-crumbling anyway, I might as
well give it a final push.
Best,
dp
6:14 p.m.
Dave Phillips wrote:
Paul Davis wrote:
Haha, forget that. I just looked at the man page for mdadm.
Mindblowingly difficult indeed, too much for this bear of little brain.
Time to figure a new course of action, but alas, both Arch and Gentoo
appear to require far more time than I have for setting up those systems.
As a matter of fact, I need only a base system - with a precompiled
Xorg, thank you - and the build-essential packages. I can then build the
apps I need.
It would certainly simplify things here if AV Linux were 64-bit savvy. ;)
Best,
dp
the fundamental problem here is that Fedora uses
LVM as its default
partition type, and this is not supported by a variety of older/other
linux distributions.
...
...
IIUC, I should be able to mount the partition with the live disc, just
not with the mount command. My mind is near-crumbling anyway, I might
as well give it a final push.
6:28 p.m.
2011/9/14, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>om>:
Haha, forget that. I just looked at the man page for mdadm.
Mindblowingly difficult indeed, too much for this bear of little brain.
Time to figure a new course of action, but alas, both Arch and Gentoo
appear to require far more time than I have for setting up those systems.
How about Fedora without LVM? LVM may be the default, but it's very
easy to avoid. Just choose 'Custom' at the partitioning phase.
Andras
6:58 p.m.
Andras Simon wrote:
How about Fedora without LVM? LVM may be the default,
but it's very
easy to avoid. Just choose 'Custom' at the partitioning phase.
Hi Andras,
Funny you should mention it. I've decided that's exactly what I'll do. I
went through the installation on autopilot, I'll be more hands-on this
time, at least to get the filesystem corrected.
Best,
dp
7:07 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>wrote;wrote:
you can mount the LVM disk, but not by just using
mount(1). i've had
to do this a few times, and it is *MINDBLOWINGLY* difficult. i don't
even recall the command set i had to use. i think it was the md* tools
(mdadm etc).
It should be mindblowingly difficult to use md tools to manage LVM's
because
they are for Linux MD. You should use the LVM2 tools to manage
LVM's. It's fairly straight forward, but can probably be a bit intimidating
if you don't work with them on a regular basis.
--Steve
7:48 p.m.
2011/9/14, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>om>:
Hi Andras,
Funny you should mention it. I've decided that's exactly what I'll do. I
went through the installation on autopilot, I'll be more hands-on this
time, at least to get the filesystem corrected.
Great! I hope it'll work for you! For me it always takes a few hours
to install a new Fedora (because I don't believe in taking notes, and
when I do, I don't believe in reading them) but once it works the way
I like it (which is mostly the way I liked it in '93) it just works.
Though I guess it's the same with other mature distros.
Andras
9:04 p.m.
Hi Andras,
I have a quick question: When the installer prompts for a mount point (/
or /root or /boot or /home etc), is there any particular reason to
choose one over another ? Or does it not matter during a simple
installation ?
Thanks !
dp
9:15 p.m.
2011/9/14, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com>om>:
Hi Andras,
I have a quick question: When the installer prompts for a mount point (/
or /root or /boot or /home etc), is there any particular reason to
choose one over another ? Or does it not matter during a simple
installation ?
Hi Dave,
Yes, of course! (Unless I completely misread your question...) You
probably want a few hundred MB partition for /boot, a few GBs for /
and the rest for /home.
I'm talking about the custom partitioning phase of the installation.
There you can create partitions and assign them to mount points. But
maybe you're talking about something else?
Andras
9:15 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
Hi Andras,
I have a quick question: When the installer prompts for a mount point (/ or
/root or /boot or /home etc), is there any particular reason to choose one
over another ? Or does it not matter during a simple installation ?
You can have different mount points (partitions) for any directory in
your system. You must have a "/" mount point no matter what. The rest
is optional.
However I very highly recommend a separate partition for /boot, and
highly recommend a separate partition for /home.
Cheers,
Orcan
9:26 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 05:04:33PM -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
I have a quick question: When the installer prompts
for a mount point (/
or /root or /boot or /home etc), is there any particular reason to
choose one over another ? Or does it not matter during a simple
installation ?
(hoping Andreas will say more or less the same :-)
That's a strange question - if you create multiple partitions
that is usually because you have a particular use (and hence
mount point) in mind for each of them.
You need at least /boot (100M, I always use a conservative
ext2 for that), and /. A separate /home partition allows you
to install a completely new system later without touching
any home dirs - rather essential on a multi-user system
but quite practical on a personal one as well. I always
create a separate /audio partitions as well (for audio
files and ardour sessions). If you have a second disk
that's where that one should go of course.
You mentioned Arch. I switched to Arch two years ago,
coming from first Suse and then Fedora. The first time
can be intimidating, but there's a lot of good docs,
you will learn at lot, and end up feeling back in
control of your system. I'm admin for 12 Arch systems
now, and I never looked back.
--
FA
10:08 p.m.
2011/9/14, Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)linuxaudio.org>rg>:
You need at least /boot (100M, I always use a
conservative
ext2 for that), and /.
Just a small correction: it's a good idea to have a /boot partition of
at least 500MB on Fedora because preupgrade
(http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_PreUpgrade) needs it. (I've
never tried preupgrade myself, but Dave might want to.)
Andras
10:38 p.m.
On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:08:12AM +0200, Andras Simon wrote:
2011/9/14, Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)linuxaudio.org>rg>:
Didn't know such a thing existed !
Of course on Arch you don't need it -- rolling release :-)
You update hourly, daily, weekly or monthly, but you never
install a 'new release' because there are no 'releases'.
--
FA
You need at least /boot (100M, I always use a
conservative
ext2 for that), and /.
Just a small correction: it's a good idea to have a /boot partition of
at least 500MB on Fedora because preupgrade
(http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_PreUpgrade) needs it. (I've
never tried preupgrade myself, but Dave might want to.) 
15 Sep
15 Sep
6:59 p.m.
On 09/14/2011 11:14 AM, Dave Phillips wrote:
Dave Phillips wrote:
:-)
that would be the lv* utilities (mdadm is for raid setups), anyway, I
see you went with custom partitioning which is what I always do.
-- Fernando
Paul Davis wrote:
Haha, forget that. I just looked at the man page for mdadm.
Mindblowingly difficult indeed, too much for this bear of little brain. the fundamental problem here is that Fedora uses
LVM as its default
partition type, and this is not supported by a variety of older/other
linux distributions.
...
...
IIUC, I should be able to mount the partition with the live disc, just
not with the mount command. My mind is near-crumbling anyway, I might
as well give it a final push. Time to figure a new course of action, but alas, both
Arch and Gentoo
appear to require far more time than I have for setting up those systems.
As a matter of fact, I need only a base system - with a precompiled
Xorg, thank you - and the build-essential packages. I can then build the
apps I need.
It would certainly simplify things here if AV Linux were 64-bit savvy. ;)
17 Sep
17 Sep
4:18 p.m.
Greetings,
First, thanks again to everyone who responded to my original message, I
appreciate your input and suggestions.
I gave up on Fedora 14, possibly a bit too soon, and I may yet decide to
install it on another machine. In fact, F14 installed nicely on the
target box, and the Planet CCRMA rt kernel seemed to perform well in the
little tests I ran. The problems I encountered started with a
difficult-to-reach runlevel (fixed by editing /etc/inittab per session)
and ended with a failure compiling nVidia's kernel module (yep, I had
the correct kernel sources), with an adorable snafu over the nouveau
driver in between (resolved by removing and remaking the initramfs image).
Arch started looking attractive at that point, so I downloaded the ISO
and started the process of installing an Arch system. So far, so good. I
have a nice Xfce desktop, surprising JACK performance on the default
kernel, and the latest nVidia driver is humming along nicely. I've also
compiled and installed Csound 5.13.0, and the audio is working perfectly.
I'm still trying to figure out some libraries/dependencies stuff.
AVSynthesis crashes because of a Csound-related linkage error, but I
think I can hammer it out. :)
Best,
dp
5:54 p.m.
AHA!
Congratulations! Arch is where it's at.
On 9/17/11, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Greetings,
First, thanks again to everyone who responded to my original message, I
appreciate your input and suggestions.
I gave up on Fedora 14, possibly a bit too soon, and I may yet decide to
install it on another machine. In fact, F14 installed nicely on the
target box, and the Planet CCRMA rt kernel seemed to perform well in the
little tests I ran. The problems I encountered started with a
difficult-to-reach runlevel (fixed by editing /etc/inittab per session)
and ended with a failure compiling nVidia's kernel module (yep, I had
the correct kernel sources), with an adorable snafu over the nouveau
driver in between (resolved by removing and remaking the initramfs image).
Arch started looking attractive at that point, so I downloaded the ISO
and started the process of installing an Arch system. So far, so good. I
have a nice Xfce desktop, surprising JACK performance on the default
kernel, and the latest nVidia driver is humming along nicely. I've also
compiled and installed Csound 5.13.0, and the audio is working perfectly.
I'm still trying to figure out some libraries/dependencies stuff.
AVSynthesis crashes because of a Csound-related linkage error, but I
think I can hammer it out. :)
Best,
dp
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9 Oct
9 Oct
8:23 a.m.
Hi,
tell your BIOS to boot from the new harddrive first. Modern BIOS'es hava
a key which you can press at startup to get a list of devices to boot
from. For older BIOS'es you have to go to the BIOS settings and change
the boot order there..
Have fun,
Flo
On 09/14/2011 12:43 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
Greetings,
Hopefully someone here has a similar setup and can help me out.
Yesterday I installed a nice new Seagate 1T drive in my main machine.
No problems with the physical installation, and the BIOS recognizes
the drive. Next I installed Fedora 14 (x86_64) on the new drive.
Again, no problems with the actual installation. On reboot my troubles
started.
I already have a system on this machine, an ancient 64 Studio 2.1 that
works beautifully. Alas, it's very old, hence the second drive and new
install. The old system is on /dev/sda1, with a swap at /dev/sda5. The
new disk is /dev/sdb, and the new system is on /dev/sdb1 and
/dev/sdb2. On reboot the machine went directly to the old grub menu
for 64 Studio, which had no entry for Fedora.
Before going further, I should note that I can't even mount the new
disk while in 64 Studio. The older system doesn't recognize ext4 file
systems, so I can't access the second drive.
Okay, back to the boot. I used AV Linux to access the new drive and
copied its grub entry to the old grub. Now when I boot I can see and
select the Fedora entry, but I receive errors whether I attempt the
boot from sdb1(hd1,0) or sdb2 (hd1,1). Sorry, I don't remember the
error numbers, I'll get them and send them if needed. The installation
media was without checksum errors, so the installed system should be
ready to go. I just can't figure out how to boot into it from my
existing menu.
So my questions are: How can I get this machine to recognize the new
installation ? Do I need to re-install and manually configure grub ?
Is the 64 Studio boot loader simply too old to handle the new
configuration ? The new grub menu.lst include a line "boot=/dev/sdb"
but it appears to mean nothing to the older grub.
I've pasted what I think are the relevant contents of the 64 Studio
menu.lst at the end of this message, in case anyone cares to
investigate and advise. I don't mind re-installing if necessary, but
it would be nice to avoid that expenditure of time. Suggestions for
fixing would be much appreciated. :)
Best,
dp
-------------------- begin 64 Studio grub menu.lst
-----------------------
title 64 Studio, kernel 2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 root=/dev/sda1
ro vga=771 splash=silent
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
savedefault
title 64 Studio, kernel 2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 (single-user
mode)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64 root=/dev/sda1
ro vga=771 splash=silent single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.21-1-multimedia-amd64
savedefault
------------------- the new addition ------------------
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this
file
# NOTICE: You have a /boot partition. This means that
# all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
# root (hd0,0)
# kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root
# initrd /initrd-[generic-]version.img
# boot=/dev/sdb
# default=0
# timeout=0
# splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
# hiddenmenu
title Fedora (2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64 ro
root=/dev/mapper/VolGroup-lv_root rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_root
rd_LVM_LV=VolGroup/lv_swap rd_NO_LUKS rd_NO_MD rd_NO_DM
LANG=en_US.UTF-8 SYSFONT=latarcyrheb-sun16 KEYTABLE=us rhgb quiet
initrd /initramfs-2.6.35.6-45.fc14.x86_64.img
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22 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Andras Simon -
Dave Phillips -
david -
Egor Sanin -
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -
Florian Paul Schmidt -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Orcan Ogetbil -
Paul Davis -
S C Rigler