2 Jun
2009
2 Jun
'09
6:42 a.m.
Hi
I do (and did over the years) quite some recording with vocals. I know a
few tricks when it comes to processing lead vocals, but sometimes I feel
I'm doing the same thing over and over. So obviously I'm looking for
other directions and therefore I'll save my own approaches for later in
this thread...
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
Note: I'm not looking for that golden setting or trying to squeeze your
golden eggs out of you. I'm just trying to learn, and hopefully this can
be a fruitful experience for all of us :-)
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk http://virb.com/atte
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:28 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Atte André Jensen <atte.jensen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I do (and did over the years) quite some recording
with vocals. I know a
few tricks when it comes to processing lead vocals, but sometimes I feel
I'm doing the same thing over and over. So obviously I'm looking for
other directions and therefore I'll save my own approaches for later in
this thread...
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
Note: I'm not looking for that golden setting or trying to squeeze your
golden eggs out of you. I'm just trying to learn, and hopefully this can
be a fruitful experience for all of us :-)
To be honest, I don't do much processing on vocals if I can help it,
as I like to get as much of the raw voice performance as I can -- a
little compression when recording and some reverb or delay as needed
for post-processing. If I want to double the vocal line, I don't do it
electronically, I will have the singer sing each part separately.
-- Brett
------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden;
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
3 Jun
3 Jun
1:10 p.m.
On 2 June 2009 at 8:28, Brett McCoy <idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If I want to double the vocal line, I don't do it
electronically, I will have the singer sing each part separately.
Agreed. Then I'll use as little of the double as possible to enhance
the primary track.
--
Kevin
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:37 a.m.
Atte André Jensen wrote:
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
I'm in agreement with Brett, I do very little processing to my voice.
I'm a great fan of the CAPS Versatile Plate Reverb and Steve Harris's SC
compressors, but that's about all I ever use for my own voice. I've
never used a pitch correction program, and I don't typically double my
vocals.
Mics seem more important than processors, at least when it comes to vocals.
I've recorded a few other singers, but I treat their voices the same as
I treat mine. They're good singers, and that's usually enough.
Best,
dp
10:40 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Atte André Jensen wrote:
Yes, I meant to mention that, a good mike and some kind of isolation
from background noise -- even if you build a tent from blankets for
the singer to perform in -- go a long way to making a good vocal
track.
-- Brett
------------------------------------------------------------
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden;
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
I'm in agreement with Brett, I do very little processing to my voice.
I'm a great fan of the CAPS Versatile Plate Reverb and Steve Harris's SC
compressors, but that's about all I ever use for my own voice. I've
never used a pitch correction program, and I don't typically double my
vocals.
Mics seem more important than processors, at least when it comes to vocals.
3 Jun
3 Jun
1:12 p.m.
On 2 June 2009 at 8:40, Brett McCoy <idragosani(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I meant to mention that, a good mike and some
kind of isolation
from background noise -- even if you build a tent from blankets for
the singer to perform in -- go a long way to making a good vocal
track.
I put gobos on 2 or 3 side of the vocalist, behind and to their
sides, so that the mic picks up fewer reflections from the room.
I got the gobos at a surplus store for $5US each. So, don't think
they're out of reach from a price standpoint.
G'luck....
--
Kevin
2 Jun
2 Jun
1:40 p.m.
Dave Phillips wrote:
Mics seem more important than processors, at least
when it comes to vocals.
I've recorded a few other singers, but I treat their voices the same as
I treat mine. They're good singers, and that's usually enough.
I agree with you both.
However, I feel like you make me sound like having a crappy singer and
ditto mic, which I don't.
Maybe it's got to to with genre (or taste or eays or something else),
but I really feel a clean track need something, for instance EQ, to jump
out of the track and lift it.
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk http://virb.com/atte
1:49 p.m.
On Tue, 2009-06-02 at 17:40 +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote:
Always listen to the track in the song before you make ANY processing
choices. If it sits just fine except for a few places in the song you
might just want to ride the fader a bit with an automation pass. Roger
Nichols (Steely Dan) doesn't use compression on vocal tracks. He just
rides the fader til he gets a pass that he likes.
If there are frequencies interfering with the vocals it might be that
the mix is pregnant in a certain frequency range, and other tracks might
need slight (subtractive) EQ.
I do compress vocals, but to too aggressively, and like Roger Nichols,
I ride the fader til I get the vocal to sit in the mix nicely.
Adding a little upper-end "air" will often make the vocals stand out in
a track and add clarity. Give a little boost at 10K (peaking, not
shelving) and that often helps.
Rich...
Maybe it's got to to with genre (or taste or eays
or something else),
but I really feel a clean track need something, for instance EQ, to jump
out of the track and lift it.
3 Jun
3 Jun
5:02 a.m.
On Tuesday 02 June 2009 17.49.32 Ricus Vincente wrote:
I do compress vocals, but to too aggressively, and
like Roger Nichols,
I ride the fader til I get the vocal to sit in the mix nicely.
Very interesting. I have heard some recordings lately where the fader is used
instead of compressor on vocals, and it sounds much more dynamic and clear
IMO; and the Roger Nichols related stuff is always great, I love Steely Dan.
:-) The Swedish Laleh - which sings with extreme dynamics - use the fader and
she sounds fantastic.
All this current over use of compression makes vocals and (recordings
generally) sound like a working circular saw when it's cutting wood. I know
that they do it on order to be heard on lousy radio stations and noisy
environments, but it should be prohibited. :-) Or they could at least make a
HiFi-version for every recording.
Jostein
9:13 a.m.
On Wednesday 03 June 2009 03:02:48 Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
Or they could at least make a
HiFi-version for every recording.
Bingo. There are so many possibilities for doing cool things that are not even
touched.
I wonder if the tracks Packet In (and others? has up could serve as a base for
a demo of this idea?
all the best,
drew
2 Jun
2 Jun
1:58 p.m.
Atte André Jensen wrote:
Dave Phillips wrote:
?
I've heard your recordings, you have a splendid singer and apparently
pretty good microphones.
Mics seem more important than processors, at
least when it comes to vocals.
I've recorded a few other singers, but I treat their voices the same as
I treat mine. They're good singers, and that's usually enough.
I agree with you both.
However, I feel like you make me sound like having a crappy singer and
ditto mic, which I don't.
Maybe it's got to to with genre (or taste or eays
or something else),
but I really feel a clean track need something, for instance EQ, to jump
out of the track and lift it.
I suppose it does have much to do with genre. I prefer singers like
Muddy Waters or Om Kholsoom, but their genres typically present the
music without much processing.
Best,
dp
3 Jun
3 Jun
6:03 a.m.
2009/6/2 Atte André Jensen <atte.jensen(a)gmail.com>
Hi
I do (and did over the years) quite some recording with vocals. I know a
few tricks when it comes to processing lead vocals, but sometimes I feel
I'm doing the same thing over and over. So obviously I'm looking for
other directions and therefore I'll save my own approaches for later in
this thread...
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
Note: I'm not looking for that golden setting or trying to squeeze your
golden eggs out of you. I'm just trying to learn, and hopefully this can
be a fruitful experience for all of us :-)
--
Atte
I usually do process vocals depending on the mic and the mixing console
preamps.
Assuming a Mackie mixing desk:
If I can use (ie. borrow from friends) a condenser one then a little
compression (SC) + multiband eq (to clarify, usually <=3db around 12Kh) and
a nylon stocking to remove unwanted "b" "p" is enough.
When I use the sm58, in addition to the above I prefer to pass the track
into Jamin (I am a fan of this app ;-) ) and work with compression
bandwidths.
Sometimes I double vocal track, shift the duplicated one by 1-2ms and boost
freq 2Kh below the main one (ie. if I boost the first at ~10Kh, the second
will be at ~8Kh).
-r
12:02 p.m.
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:03 +0200, Raffaele Morelli wrote:
Hi,
I read a lot of threads where people are looking for some tricks and
hints about recording various things, and in my experience, if you hang
a good mic, in a good spot, and go through good gear, you're gonna get a
decent sound. There are no tricks involved.
Unfortunately this is experiential, too, so you just need to do it a
lot. :-)
Rich...
I do (and did over the years) quite some
recording with
vocals. I know a
few tricks when it comes to processing lead vocals, but
sometimes I feel
I'm doing the same thing over and over. So obviously I'm
looking for
other directions and therefore I'll save my own approaches for
later in
this thread...
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing on lead
vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more
precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and
screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
Note: I'm not looking for that golden setting or trying to
squeeze your
golden eggs out of you. I'm just trying to learn, and
hopefully this can
be a fruitful experience for all of us :-)
--
Atte
I usually do process vocals depending on the mic and the mixing
console preamps.
Assuming a Mackie mixing desk:
If I can use (ie. borrow from friends) a condenser one then a little
compression (SC) + multiband eq (to clarify, usually <=3db around
12Kh) and a nylon stocking to remove unwanted "b" "p" is enough.
When I use the sm58, in addition to the above I prefer to pass the
track into Jamin (I am a fan of this app ;-) ) and work with
compression bandwidths.
Sometimes I double vocal track, shift the duplicated one by 1-2ms and
boost freq 2Kh below the main one (ie. if I boost the first at ~10Kh,
the second will be at ~8Kh).
-r
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9:17 a.m.
Atte André Jensen wrote:
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing
on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
*if* your performer can keep his/her head reasonably still, a close-ish
ORTF stereo pair in an intimate, well-damped room can sound great.
i once tried it on a singer/guitarist (using two dynamic sennheiser md
421s, with the singer being about 30cm away from them).
it sounds very close but also quite spacious. the only drawback is that
each head movement translates to an audible shift of image (made worse
by the guitar playing), but for a vocals-only take it might work.
also, for vocal reverb i recommend convolution with a really nice IR
over each and every reverb engine i have tried (even though some are
quite usable).
one IR i love (and abuse over and over again) is the concertgebouw
amsterdam, available from some free IR site i've forgotten...
1:28 p.m.
On 2 June 2009 at 10:42, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Atte_Andr=E9_Jensen?=
<atte.jensen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
My question is: how do *you guys* work with processing
on lead vocals,
mostly in pop/rock setting? We all learn the most the more precise this
discussion gets, so if you'd share sound examples and screenshots of DSP
chains that'd be great.
Start with a good singer, well practiced, on a good day for them.
Use a good mic, or a couple mics so you have more options later for
blending them. With too many mics, you can't get them all into the
vocalists sweet spot. Put the vocalist in a comfortable setting, so
that they relax and have a good mood and frame of mind for recording.
Keep a good attitude so that they don't absorb any tension from the
person doing the tracking. Those things will help to get a good raw
sound into the recording media. Good raw sound is the best
"processing".
As for EQ, I've never found any magic. Every singer is different.
Even with one singer, the EQ requirements vary from song to song.
I try to be subtle with the EQ; +/-3dB is enough in a lot of cases
to get out of the way of some other instrument or boost something in
the singer's voice. Parametric is the way to go to isolate just the
right band for treatment. This is all experimental for me. More
practice means better hearing and faster laps through the experiments.
As for f/x, my favorite is a good reverb; I really like GVerb. I'll
tune up the early reflection stuff first, to get the right room size
and liveliness. Then I'll tune up the reverb tail to taste. Next
I'll bring up the wetness of the reverb until it's clearly audible as
an effect on the track. Then I'll listen to the whole song at those
settings. Eventually, I'll pull back the wetness of the reverb until
it just barely disappears as being an effect. The result is a reverb
that doesn't draw attention, unless one really listens for it, but
does fatten up the vocal track. Now that I've said that about
effects, there are times when a song calls for audible effects.
Of course, all of what I wrote depends so much on the context of the
song that it's hard to make grand statements. A singer/songwriter
ballad calls for such a different treatment than the vocalist in a
thrash/metal band.
Cheers....
--
Kevin
5654
days inactive
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14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Atte André Jensen -
Brett McCoy -
Dave Phillips -
drew Roberts -
Jostein Chr. Andersen -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Raffaele Morelli -
Ricardus Vincente -
Ricus Vincente