17 Mar
2005
17 Mar
'05
4:19 p.m.
From: Gilles Degottex
<gilles.degottex(a)net2000.ch>
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 05:36, John Check wrote:
As examples, I extracted a few cuts with Hammond organ kind
sounds from Yello's Motion Picture album (www.yello.ch):
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/culture/music/western/Yello/
yellohammond*.wav
I would like to have similar sounds available. Preferably as
an open source software emulation for the maximum control.
The cuts have other nice sounds as well.
Could anyone record hammond organs from Nord Modular and other
synths? NM users have a huge collection of sound patches. I wonder
if the patches made by users could be converted to our open
source software.
!! I find it always sad when people using system X contributes
intellectual property to X freely and when implicitly the contributed
IP becomes sole property of system X. Thousands of NM user-made
patches are good examples; nobody has ported them to other systems.
Every user-made feature suggestion given to Logic Audio, Cubase,
Maya, Houdini, you-name-it-software are not contributed to other
systems. The user-made contributions may appear in other systems
as "copied from system X", not as "idea contributed by person N.N."
!!
Juhana
--
http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-graphics-dev
for developers of open source graphics software
Have a look at horgand, it's a pretty kick
ass hammond emulator.
It has a leslie, reverb, rhythm section, the whole schmear.
I already tested it ... IMHO far far away from the original sound and sf2
synth sounds. I think the problem is horgand seems generate is own primary
sounds (sounds of the fondamental and the harmonics) and they are too much
perfect :P A mixed solution between horgand and a wavetable for base sounds,
could be a better one, I think. 
17 Mar
17 Mar
6:47 p.m.
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 10:19:47PM +0200, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
!! I find it always sad when people using system X
contributes
intellectual property to X freely and when implicitly the contributed
IP becomes sole property of system X. Thousands of NM user-made
patches are good examples; nobody has ported them to other systems.
true, but what can you do? The systems all have different internals.
Even if you implemented a complicated mapping for each system they
would still sound different in most cases.
i do agree with your sentiments, though.
cheers
--
Tim Orford
18 Mar
18 Mar
8:26 a.m.
On Thursday 17 March 2005 03:19 pm, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
>I already tested it ... IMHO far far away from the
original sound and sf2
>synth sounds. I think the problem is horgand seems generate is own primary
>sounds (sounds of the fondamental and the harmonics) and they are too much
>perfect :P A mixed solution between horgand and a wavetable for base
> sounds, could be a better one, I think.
Sorry, I know I'm replying to the wrong post, and I might even be in the wrong
thread--somebody posted about possibly not being able to achieve the desired
sound (for the Hammond organ) without ~"heated elements moving massive
amounts of air" (or something similar.
I'm curious (and trying to do a boundary check)--has that person (or anyone
else) heard a satisfactory reproduction of the desired sound on any CD? (If
so, it would seem to me the desired sound can be achieved digitally, it's
just ;-) a matter of finding the right waveform(s).)
Randy Kramer
Sorry--I'm too lazy to look in the archives for the correct post.
21 Mar
21 Mar
7:22 a.m.
Last Friday 18 March 2005 12:25, Randy Kramer was like:
Sorry, I know I'm replying to the wrong post, and
I might even be in the
wrong thread--somebody posted about possibly not being able to achieve the
desired sound (for the Hammond organ) without ~"heated elements moving
massive amounts of air" (or something similar.
That was probably me.
I'm curious (and trying to do a boundary
check)--has that person (or anyone
else) heard a satisfactory reproduction of the desired sound on any CD?
(If so, it would seem to me the desired sound can be achieved digitally,
it's just ;-) a matter of finding the right waveform(s).)
One of the problems with the hammond is that you would need a separate sample
for each key, to get the proper vibrato of each tone-wheel and a good leslie
is hard to fake. I'm not saying it's utterly impossible, but it would take a
sample bank as finely engineered as the original instrument. And no, I've
never heard the hammond transfered to CD without losing some of its power,
although the tone of a real instrument generally does shine through.
I love digital for editing and general cleanness etc. But I think there are
certain analogue sounds that need tape, valves (tubes), strings, skins
ambient spaces and human interference to get just right. The beauty of a
digital system is that you only need to insert the analogue where it is
needed and it's easier to cut down on unwanted noise. I do understand the
desire to have a B3 on your laptop and if one existed I would almost
certainly use it myself. You could always route it though a valve compressor
just to warm it up. :-) In terms of useability, Horgand and ZynAddSubFX
already have some nice organ patches, which does me fine for now.
Anyway, this really is just my uneducated opinion.
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk
7:23 p.m.
On Monday 21 March 2005 06:21 am, tim hall wrote:
Last Friday 18 March 2005 12:25, Randy Kramer was
like:
I have a set of Joey DeFrancesco EPS16+ sampler disks someplace that are very
sweet. These samplers maxed out at IIRC 2Mb RAM.
Sorry, I know I'm replying to the wrong post,
and I might even be in the
wrong thread--somebody posted about possibly not being able to achieve
the desired sound (for the Hammond organ) without ~"heated elements
moving massive amounts of air" (or something similar.
That was probably me.
I'm curious (and trying to do a boundary
check)--has that person (or
anyone else) heard a satisfactory reproduction of the desired sound on
any CD? (If so, it would seem to me the desired sound can be achieved
digitally, it's just ;-) a matter of finding the right waveform(s).)
One of the problems with the hammond is that you would
need a separate
sample for each key, to get the proper vibrato of each tone-wheel and a
good leslie is hard to fake. I'm not saying it's utterly impossible, but it
would take a sample bank as finely engineered as the original instrument.
That's why it's as important to spec what a patch should do before one starts
as it is to spec a piece of software.
The physical aspects of the instrument one is producing need to be accounted
for. Am "I" trying to reproduce certain idiosyncracies (features) of a source
or eliminate them (bugs)?
Examples:
Do I want the pedal thuds in my piano?
Do I want the motor noise in my leslie?
IMO the "right" way to do things is to break down the instrument one is trying
to reproduce and then use the available synth architecture to reproduce as
many of the dynamic qualities of a timbre as possible. The samples themselves
should be as close to a static nature as possible, i.e. the tone wheels of a
hammond always output the same waveform. It's the drawbars that dictate the
waveform that gets sent to the output and there is an infinite combination of
positions, so trying to sample every possible combination is brain dead.
If one just records a particular hammond & leslie sound and stuffs it in one
layer of sampler, it won't be anything more than that one patch. If one
reproduces the tone generators and emulates the construction of the
instrument, and it's signal chain (should one be necessary for the sound)
then it's possible to approach the real deal.
And no, I've never heard the hammond transfered to
CD without losing some
of its power, although the tone of a real instrument generally does shine
through.
Well, recorded music cannot sound like live music unless perhaps somebody
discovered the ideal of microphone technique. Consider that in this
particular case, the output transducer has both a dynamic shape and
dispersion pattern.
I love digital for editing and general cleanness etc. But I think there are
certain analogue sounds that need tape, valves (tubes), strings, skins
ambient spaces and human interference to get just right. The beauty of a
digital system is that you only need to insert the analogue where it is
needed and it's easier to cut down on unwanted noise. I do understand the
desire to have a B3 on your laptop and if one existed I would almost
horgand is pretty good.
certainly use it myself. You could always route it
though a valve
compressor just to warm it up. :-) In terms of useability, Horgand and
ZynAddSubFX already have some nice organ patches, which does me fine for
now.
No arguments there
Anyway, this really is just my uneducated opinion.
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk
18 Mar
18 Mar
9:47 a.m.
On Thu, Mar 17, 2005 at 10:19:47 +0200, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
Could anyone record hammond organs from Nord Modular
and other
synths? NM users have a huge collection of sound patches. I wonder
if the patches made by users could be converted to our open
source software.
Sure, in theory, the NM patch format is a simple text system, and I've
written code that parses it. The NM modules are /extremely/ well
engineered though, so it would take a lot of effort to recreate them.
Clavia have released $0 software that can load and play the patches too.
- Steve
7189
days inactive
7193
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
6 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
John Check -
Juhana Sadeharju -
Randy Kramer -
Steve Harris -
tim hall -
Tim Orford