10 Sep
2016
10 Sep
'16
8:59 p.m.
Right from V 0.016 we had the default MIDI and audio set for Jack, and soon
after that we abandoned the beginners Gui option.
Since then a lot has changed, and I'm wondering if we should reappraise these
decissions.
Fairly recently we gave a nod in the direction of helping beginners by making
the virtual keyboard appear alongside the main window on a very first time
startup. Personally, I think that's better than a dumbed down Gui.
These days, we also have the short Yoshimi guide that tries to get new users
started.
Now I'm wondering if we should change the first-time startup to an all Alsa
configuration. It would make no difference to existing users, as for quite a
while these have been re-settable preferences, and are stored in the config
file.
Would it get us closer to a 'just works' position?
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
10 Sep
10 Sep
9:49 p.m.
Hi Will,
I really can't comment on what you are asking specific to Yoshimi because
I'm not much of a synth user (but you can sure make it sound great!)
I'm not a developer like many here, but my fumbling contributions to the
Linux Audio world have always been in service of making a complete
JACK-based system ready to use so newbies to Linux can have as full and
rewarding an experience as I've had. JACK's interconnectivity has always
been and still is one of the most amazing and powerful features and I
think if projects like Ardour and Yoshimi provide an OOTB easy ALSA
experience it may well make the first step easier but completely
undersells Linux Audio's most powerful and unique feature. It's great to
fire up Yoshimi and hear a sound, but if I can't seamlessy patch it into
Ardour (or Qtractor or Rosegarden) which is the next logical step in using
it then the new user may completely be confounded by the isolated
modularity provided by ALSA and then write Linux off as being to confusing
and difficult. In either case there is no gain.
I think better and more complete documentation of our wondrous JACK
workflow is a better long-term answer. I personally added 20+ pages to the
last AV Linux Manual completely in service of explaining JACK's routing
and real-world examples of using it with Ardour and Mixbus.
I commend you for taking the time to document Yoshimi and I know it seems
like a thankless task that many users will ignore out of laziness but
truly the kind of users that are committed to learning are the kind of
long-term users that will evangelize and help others discover how great
Yoshimi is.
It is also great to have starter articles like the ones on
libremusicproduction.com. My opinion is stop dumbing-down and start
smartening-up new Linux Users :)
Just my $0.02 as someone who has tried to facilitate/evangelize Linux
Audio and JACK for 10 years now.
Will Godfrey wrote:
Right from V 0.016 we had the default MIDI and audio
set for Jack, and
soon
after that we abandoned the beginners Gui option.
Since then a lot has changed, and I'm wondering if we should reappraise
these
decissions.
Fairly recently we gave a nod in the direction of helping beginners by
making
the virtual keyboard appear alongside the main window on a very first time
startup. Personally, I think that's better than a dumbed down Gui.
These days, we also have the short Yoshimi guide that tries to get new
users
started.
Now I'm wondering if we should change the first-time startup to an all
Alsa
configuration. It would make no difference to existing users, as for quite
a
while these have been re-settable preferences, and are stored in the
config
file.
Would it get us closer to a 'just works' position?
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
10:51 p.m.
On Saturday, September 10, 2016 7:59:32 PM EDT Will Godfrey wrote:
Right from V 0.016 we had the default MIDI and audio
set for Jack, and soon
after that we abandoned the beginners Gui option.
Since then a lot has changed, and I'm wondering if we should reappraise
these decissions.
Fairly recently we gave a nod in the direction of helping beginners by
making the virtual keyboard appear alongside the main window on a very
first time startup. Personally, I think that's better than a dumbed down
Gui.
Sure. They can quickly close it, so it's probably more helpful to show it
at first, as in "Testing... is yoshimi working? Make some noise for me!".
These days, we also have the short Yoshimi guide that
tries to get new users
started.
Now I'm wondering if we should change the first-time startup to an all Alsa
configuration. It would make no difference to existing users, as for quite a
while these have been re-settable preferences, and are stored in the config
file.
Would it get us closer to a 'just works' position?
How about popping up a first-time dialog and asking?
The problem remains though: Which default, Alsa or Jack, to set
the dialog at so that busy users can quickly hit Enter and move on.
I'd say start with all Alsa - IF nothing else is using it exclusively.
If Jack is already running, the user likely wants Jack audio + midi
so use it. If not then auto-start Jack but only if they choose Jack.
Nice work on the switching times. Quantum leaps, eh?
Tim.
11 Sep
11 Sep
8:35 p.m.
Thanks both for your comments.
To my shame, it seems I allowed myself to be spooked by a couple of emails I
got in rapid succession (different addresses) both suggesting Alsa start was
better for beginners.
This is actually (mostly) a non problem. For some time now Yoshimi has
looked for whatever is set as default, and if it can't find it then looks
for alternatives. So, at first time start, a newbie would almost certainly end
up with an all Alsa session, unless they already had Jack running.
The embarrassing bit is that it was me who originally asked for this to be
implemented by one of Yoshimi's little helpers.
The remaining point is that Yoshimi never attempts to start the jack server
(unless the -k argument is sent at startup) so that's something we should
probably take a look at.
I shall now go and stand in the corner facing the wall (again).
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
12 Sep
12 Sep
11:53 p.m.
My opinion:
Le 10 septembre 2016 23:51:07 UTC+03:00, termtech <termtech(a)rogers.com> a écrit :
#1 : Jack first!
If Jack is already running, the user likely wants Jack
audio + midi
so use it. If not then auto-start Jack but only if they choose Jack.
#2 :
I'd say start with all Alsa - IF nothing else is
using it exclusively.
..and after explaining main jack's features that are
missing with alsa.
Thierry
--
Envoyé de mon téléphone Android avec K-9 Mail. Excusez la brièveté.
13 Sep
13 Sep
9:47 a.m.
On 09/12/2016 11:52 AM, Thierry Andriamirado wrote:
My opinion:
Le 10 septembre 2016 23:51:07 UTC+03:00, termtech <termtech(a)rogers.com> a écrit :
#1 : Jack first!
Also maybe on first start up a button, (also available somewhere else in
Yoshimi), called Test Audio. A simple demo of some of Yoshi's
instruments that plays so they can immediately tell if audio is working.
Maybe first it tries for JACK, then tries for Alsa?
--
David W. Jones
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://dancingtreefrog.com
If Jack is already running, the user likely wants
Jack audio + midi
so use it. If not then auto-start Jack but only if they choose Jack.
#2 :
I'd say start with all Alsa - IF nothing else
is using it exclusively.
..and after explaining main jack's features that are
missing with alsa.
2791
days inactive
2794
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
5 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
david -
Glen MacArthur -
termtech -
Thierry Andriamirado -
Will Godfrey