2013/1/18 Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net>et>: That's the trick ;) I am just playing with this and I am really impresed how well it works. Best setting for me is: "L/ Feedback" 0% "R/ Delay" 0ms "R/Haas Feedback" 90% "R/Haas Delay" time to 0-6 ms doing nice panning C -> R "Dry Level" -70 dB Interesting is that it sounds even better in swap mode, but it can be caused by my crappy home PC speakers :( Would be nice to have just one plugin doing this all ( Mono to Stereo Splitter + TAP Stereo Echo ) by one panning knob ;) mira

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:34:57AM +0100, Jaromír Mikeš wrote: If 'panning' means 'to create an apparent source direction between two (or more) speakers', then whatever you obtain by using such small delays has nothing to do with the Haas effect. Using small delays (< 0.6 ms) works well for headphones, as can be expected - a real off-center source produces the same. It can produce some spatial effects on a speaker system iff the speakers are close to the listener, e.g. the typical multimedia pair sitting besides a computer monitor. But it doesn't scale to larger setups where most listeners can't be expected to be exactly on the center line. The Haas effect is a special case of the precedence effect, which means: * There is a small range of delays (from a few milliseconds up to a few tens of ms) for which 1. the apparent source direction is that of the first sound, but 2. the delayed sound is not perceived as a separate event (echo). The Haas effect means that this remains true even if the delayed sound is a few dB louder that the direct one, for a somewhat smaller range of delays. Both cases describe a 'snap to first' effect rather than one that creates a virtual source between two speakers. The precedence and Haas effects can be exploited to reinforce a sound using speakers in a different direction without changing the apparent direction of that sound. It can't be used for panning. Adding early reflections to a mix can improve the result, in some cases dramatically. But the apparent source direction will still be controlled by the amplitude panner used on the direct sound. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:57:31PM +0100, Jaromír Mikeš wrote: You seem to read the opposite of what I wrote :-) Using delays could ensure that e.g. a sound that is supposed to be at a particular speaker remains there even for a listener who is closer to the other speakers which get a delayed signal. But that is not panning, it's just assigning a sound to a particular speaker direction while using the others to make it louder, or ensuring that the original (direct, not amplified) sound determines the apparent direction. Such things are routinely done in e.g. theatre sound amplification. But you can't create stable images *in between the speakers* by using delays. Another thing that can be done while mixing is adding early reflections (20..80 ms) at a *low* level - this tends to reinforce the effect of the ampltiude based panning which still determines the apparent direction. On the contrary, it creates havoc (heavy comb filtering) if the channels are mixed. Mono compatibility is lost unless you're very careful. It is possible to create L/R IR pairs that add delays but do not have this problem, but you don't get those by chance. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)

Make a stereo track mono by using the pan pots. I'm not sure if they need to be set to the center or hard to one direction. Signal routing with Linux sometimes is an issue, e.g. for vocoders, than it's needed to e.g. use an external virtual rack.