14 Oct
2004
14 Oct
'04
10:25 a.m.
Hello,
I'm looking for information on the art of drum pattern
creation. I don't talk about "howtos" for various drum machines or
sequencers, I know how to use these, I just suck at creating good drum
patterns ;-(
I do differrent styles of music , folk , rock , jazz, classic,
experimental stuff, but no dance or techno stuff ( even though some of
my folk music out of my sblive synth feels a little more techno than it
should ... ).
One of the first thing I should probably do is study drum and get a
teacher or something, but I felt maybe some of you know some tricks:
what to avoid , what can be used at will, how to create fills... I even
though I could receive a pattern library full of examples.
I currently use rosegarden4 sequencer, the matrix editor is nice for
drum part edition, but I also have hydrogen and tk707.
And also, if you think another list would be more appropriate, tell me
which.
Thank you
Frank
14 Oct
14 Oct
11:50 a.m.
isabellf wrote:
I'm looking for information on the art of drum
pattern creation. I
don't talk about "howtos" for various drum machines or sequencers, I
know how to use these, I just suck at creating good drum patterns ;-(
You can find collections of MIDI files that are just drum patterns, they
may be useful to study. Try Googling for "drum patterns MIDI files".
One of the first thing I should probably do is study
drum and get a
teacher or something, but I felt maybe some of you know some tricks:
what to avoid , what can be used at will, how to create fills... I
even though I could receive a pattern library full of examples.
You really should take some lessons, if only to find out more about the
instrument you're writing for. There are a gazillion playing techniques
for percussion instruments.
Some simple advice: If you're designing a pattern for a drum kit and you
want to make it sound "real", remember that a player can make a maximum
of only four simultaneous sounds (two feet, two hands). Watch and study
how drummers actually get around their sets: you'll be able to write
things with a drum machine that of course are not humanly possible, and
you'll have to decide whether you want to restrict your patterns to
"playable" kinds or if you'll just write without considering playability.
Another thing to be aware of is panning. It sounds ridiculous to have a
snare drum panned hard left and your high-hat panned far right.
Visualize the kit's layout, set your pan controls to a rather narrow
range if you want to create a convincing virtual set.
Use velocity and pitch variation. Yes, percussion instruments have a
pitch component, and small variations impart much liveliness. Vary the
velocity too: no player plays two notes in a row with absolutely the
same articulation. If your software includes humanization controls (e.g.
Hydrogen) be sure to use them, they can help loosen up a too-rigid feel
to your rhythms.
Use effects sparingly. It's a bit of a "false" effect, but I've found
that adding a little reverb to my high-hat lines really opens up the
sound, even though the other instruments are not "effected".
And be sure to check out the demos for Hydrogen, you can learn a lot
from them too.
I currently use rosegarden4 sequencer, the matrix
editor is nice for
drum part edition, but I also have hydrogen and tk707.
TK707 is a lot of fun, especially if you've owned a TR707. Hydrogen
rocks solid, it's my drum machine of choice these days. I just put an
article about Hydrogen on-line for the Linux Journal, check it out here:
http://linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7846&mode=thread&order=0
I hope some of that helps. Good luck !
Best,
dp
2:23 p.m.
--- Dave Phillips <dlphilp(a)bright.net> wrote:
isabellf wrote:
Anyone of us can learn to read the percussion staff
well enough to program MIDI patterns in one afternoon.
The reading skills are indespensible because many
great patterns and songs have been scored.
You don't need to learn to play the kit in order to
understand the patterns that great drummers like Elvin
Jones, Buddy Rich or any of the rest build their
careers with. If you want to understand what that
calibre of drummer does or even learn to play like
them then study the 26 Rudiments. You start by
developing technique on one instrument, snare drum or
phonebook, and then apply it to the kit.
As you develop command of or a great familiarity with
the Rudiments your comprehension of music changes from
nuances to interpreting passages and relationships
between instruments.
I know a handful of talented drummers. Two of them are
world class. One of them can play any style of music.
What distinguishes the most talented one from the
others is his command of the Rudiments. "Ron, listen
to me! Here's the parradidle as Latin, here it is as
Rock, here it is as Jazz." He demonstrated each style
with the same exact pattern by changing the accents."
I'm looking for information on the art of
drum
pattern creation. I
don't talk about "howtos" for
various drum
machines or sequencers, I
know how to use these, I just suck at creating
good drum patterns ;-(
You can find collections of MIDI files that are just
drum patterns, they
may be useful to study. Try Googling for "drum
patterns MIDI files".
One of the first thing I should probably do is
study drum and get a
teacher or something, but I felt maybe some of
you
know some tricks:
what to avoid , what can be used at will, how to
create fills... I
even though I could receive a pattern library
full
of examples.
You really should take some lessons, if only to find
out more about the
instrument you're writing for. There are a gazillion
playing techniques
for percussion instruments. Some simple advice: If you're designing a pattern
for a drum kit and you
want to make it sound "real", remember that a player
can make a maximum
of only four simultaneous sounds (two feet, two
hands). Watch and study
how drummers actually get around their sets: you'll
be able to write
things with a drum machine that of course are not
humanly possible, and
you'll have to decide whether you want to restrict
your patterns to
"playable" kinds or if you'll just write without
considering playability.
Another thing to be aware of is panning. It sounds
ridiculous to have a
snare drum panned hard left and your high-hat panned
far right.
Agreed and this is very important because it's the
drums that define and build the stereo field.
Visualize the kit's layout, set your pan controls
to
a rather narrow
range if you want to create a convincing virtual
set.
Disagree or at least object to the concept of
"narrow." Drums are the base for the stereo field.
Think about why...the kit is not one instrument. A
standard kit is eight instruments.
Panning related to a wall clock; kick=noon,
snare=1:PM, hat=2:PM, rack-right=3:PM, rack-left=9:AM,
floor-tom=hard left, overhead left=hard left, overhead
right=hard right. That is the panning scheme of the
modern drum mix. Always pan from the perspective of a
listener and not that of the drummer--high hat is on
the listeners right side.
That panning scheme fills and defines the stereo field
which is the stage. All other instruments can be fit
as you visualize them on that stage. Backing
vocal/mults are another story but they end up being
the same as any other stereo instrument/keyboard or
whatever.
Use velocity and pitch variation. Yes, percussion
instruments have a
pitch component, and small variations impart much
liveliness. Vary the
velocity too: no player plays two notes in a row
with absolutely the
same articulation. If your software includes
humanization controls (e.g.
Hydrogen) be sure to use them, they can help loosen
up a too-rigid feel
to your rhythms.
Use effects sparingly. It's a bit of a "false"
effect, but I've found
that adding a little reverb to my high-hat lines
really opens up the
sound, even though the other instruments are not
"effected".
OK, Dave and I are gonna have to take off the gloves.
Dave you got a sheet of ice we can toss down on? :)
It's getting colder in Minneapolis but not cold enough
to make ice. Books can be written on this topic and
should be. I'm not gonna elaborate but am certain that
anything I say here would not be new to Dave or anyone
else. I'll try to state my basic tenant. Every song is
unique and will tell you what to do if you learn to
hear instrument relationships and comprehend the
tensions and releases.
Did the songwriter leave the back beat, snare, in
space by its self? If yes, then it might be
appropriate to design a sound; a big room with a long
tailing reverb or maybe a big room with a percussive
reversed gate. Snare drums are commonly used to build
tension and release for the purpose of helping a
listener anticipate what's coming and when it's going
to happen. Of course any drum can be used to this
purpose; the $20,000.00 Grand Piano/Drum, the bass
guitar/drum, the electric six string guitar/drum, etc.
It's to bad all these other fancy drums aren't as
beautiful and elegant as the good old snare drum. OK,
I'm being a smart ass and ranting but I'm not entirely
joking. James Brown, paraphrased, every instrument on
my stage is a drum. Sorry, I can't recall where or
when he stated that but I really wish I could. I've
understood that perspective for along time but when
Brown said it, it helped change my understanding of
music and combined with the Rudiments, sad to say,
they are more reliable than sex.
ron
And be sure to check out the demos for Hydrogen, you
can learn a lot
from them too.
http://linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7846&mode=thread&order=0
I currently use rosegarden4 sequencer, the matrix
editor is nice for
drum part edition, but I also have hydrogen and
tk707.
TK707 is a lot of fun, especially if you've owned a
TR707. Hydrogen
rocks solid, it's my drum machine of choice these
days. I just put an
article about Hydrogen on-line for the Linux
Journal, check it out here:
I hope some of that helps. Good luck !
Best,
dp
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12:51 p.m.
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:05:12 -0400, isabellf <isabellf(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
Hello,
I'm looking for information on the art of drum pattern
creation. I don't talk about "howtos" for various drum machines or
sequencers, I know how to use these, I just suck at creating good drum
patterns ;-(
I do differrent styles of music , folk , rock , jazz, classic,
experimental stuff, but no dance or techno stuff ( even though some of
my folk music out of my sblive synth feels a little more techno than it
should ... ).
One of the first thing I should probably do is study drum and get a
teacher or something, but I felt maybe some of you know some tricks:
what to avoid , what can be used at will, how to create fills... I even
though I could receive a pattern library full of examples.
I currently use rosegarden4 sequencer, the matrix editor is nice for
drum part edition, but I also have hydrogen and tk707.
And also, if you think another list would be more appropriate, tell me
which.
Thank you
Frank
First, Thanks to Dave and Alex for some great replies. I got good
stuff out of both.
I'm not a drummer. Getting good rhythms into my stuff is always one of
the toughest things to do by myself. I'm seldom satisfied and always
looking for ways to make this part of music easier and more fun. Some
things (most of which cost at least a little money) that you might
want to look at:
1) The web - One of my favorite sites is here:
http://www.drummingweb.com/index.html
Tomas seems to have a lot of good things to say. I like his writing
and his analysis of Yes and how the songs changed with the changing
back and forth between Bruford and White.
2) A fairly good, if very simple book: Rhythm Programming by Mark Roberts:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1860744125/qid=1097762579/sr=…
It's an OK starting place. About $15. Comes with a CD of patterns, but
also has some discussion of why things work and why things don't. (Big
clue - think like a drummer. Drummers have two hands and two feet.
Don't hit 5 things at the same time...) ;-)
3) Drumtrax - A great library of MIDI patterns played by a real
drummer. About $50. you will never get through the whole library. It's
huge. Don't worry about the librarian being a windows program. The
value is in the MIDI library which is obviously cross platform and
provided in both MIDI file formats.
4) Far and away the most fun, but far and away the most expensive
($500-$1K) is to get some equipment. I use a small Drumkat drum pad
tied to a Alesis DM-5. I set up a drum machine more or less as a
metronome and then just bang away, recording MIDI patterns, until I
finally get lucky and do something I like.
http://www.drumkat.com/
http://alesis.com/products/dm5/index.html
My Drumkat is an older 6-pad version I got through a Pro Tools users
group connection. I got the Alesis on Ebay. The Drumkat puts out
triggers and the Alesis turns them into MIDI events. I don't use the
sounds in the Alesis at all, but rather driver Battery and GigaStudio.
There is nothing more satisfying, fun and empowering than coming up
with some pattern you like and can start composing around. I'm not
enough of a drummer to string a whole performance together, but I can
do bits and pieces and then give it to my drummer friends and let them
do the real stuff.
One big advantage to the Drumkat approach is that it is real physics
working. Real sticks at real velocities, I think the three things that
make MIDI drumming sound most real are:
1) As mentioned by Alex - varied velocities and timing. Very true.
2) Ghost notes. Drum sticks have mass. The hit the drum head and
bounce back, but then drummers often let them hit the head a second
time at a lower velocity. It's not written as a note, hence it gets
called a ghost note. Programming this stuff by hand is just about the
most boring, horrible thing to do. I hate it. Mostly drum machines
cannot do it since this little hits are not on grid. You can do it in
MIDI files and drive yourself insane. You can play it on a drum, have
fun, and have it happen naturally. It's insanely great!
3) Odd changes - vary the snare sample. Once in a while throw in a
rimshot instead of a straight snare. Vary it like a drummer might.
I'm a terrible, horrible, non-accomplished hack in this area, but thee
is really no part of music I like to play with more than drum
patterns. It's great fun and, when done right, can breathe a lot more
life into what you are doing.
Have fun,
Mark
2:34 p.m.
--- Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Wow Mark, I'm really starting to like you:
I'm a terrible, horrible, non-accomplished hack
in
this area, but thee
is really no part of music I like to play with more
than drum
patterns. It's great fun and, when done right, can
breathe a lot more
life into what you are doing.
I love drums.
I've been kind of lonely lately. I look real bad in a
dress, how 'bout you? Yikes, for the good of all, I'll
go have my morning cup of coffee.
ron
Have fun,
Mark
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5:49 p.m.
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:16:43 -0700 (PDT), R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
I look bad in a dress, but that doesn't mean I don't like wearing one.
This is, after all, the suburbs of San Francisco. Callme when you're
in town. I'm sure we can find some way to have fun... ;-)
- Mark
--- Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Wow Mark, I'm really starting to like you:
and I you...
I'm a terrible, horrible, non-accomplished
hack in
this area, but thee
is really no part of music I like to play with more
than drum
patterns. It's great fun and, when done right, can
breathe a lot more
life into what you are doing.
I love drums.
I've been kind of lonely lately. I look real bad in a
dress, how 'bout you? Yikes, for the good of all, I'll
go have my morning cup of coffee.
ron
Have fun,
Mark
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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10:50 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Drum pattern creation. : Thank you
Hi,
I'ld like to thank all who replied yet. I'll try to make good use of
your advices.
Frank.
7392
days inactive
7392
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Dave Phillips -
isabellf -
Mark Knecht -
R Parker