15 Mar
2013
15 Mar
'13
3:34 p.m.
Hey all,
No question is a stupid question, as they say, so I might as well ask.
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery would I need to
send a synth running on my laptop through a seperate output channel on
an audio interface with multiple ins/outs, send it, let's say, through
some outboard effects, and then back into the laptop as a seperate
input?
Cheers,
Andrew.
15 Mar
15 Mar
3:44 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Andrew C <countfuzzball(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery
would I need to
send a synth running on my laptop through a seperate output channel on
an audio interface with multiple ins/outs, send it, let's say, through
some outboard effects, and then back into the laptop as a seperate
input?
Hi Andrew!
No trickery at all:
1. Jack patchbay: synth output -> software patched -> "system_out 1"
2. Physical connection: system_out_1 (on soundcard)-> physical lead ->
outboard effect input
3. physical connection: outboard effect output -> physical lead ->
"system_in_1" on soundcard
4. Jack patchbay: "system_in_1"-> software patched -> (recording program
or
whatever).
That's all. Just think clearly about the signal path, and you'll be able do
all sorts of cool things like this!
-Harry
6:07 p.m.
Thanks for the information guys, didn't know that a multiple in/out
audio interface creates _1 system_in/out ports in JACK.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Harry van Haaren <harryhaaren(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1. Jack patchbay: synth output -> software patched
-> "system_out 1"
2. Physical connection: system_out_1 (on soundcard)-> physical lead ->
outboard effect input
3. physical connection: outboard effect output -> physical lead ->
"system_in_1" on soundcard
4. Jack patchbay: "system_in_1"-> software patched -> (recording program
or
whatever).
That makes a lot of sense and is quite cool, I'll definitely have to try it out!
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:48 PM, Bill Gribble <grib(a)billgribble.com> wrote:
If you are planning to mix the new sounds with the
old, you will need to
delay the old before mixing it with the new. Ardour and most other DAW
software will handle this automatically. If your software doesn't do it
automatically, you can probably manually adjust the new (or old) data
after recording, using "jdelay" output to tell you how much to shift it.
Ouch, I knew there was a catch! This means that the incoming audio is
delayed by the latency or 2x?
JACK is running at 10.2ms latency currently, but if I send it out and
then back in, it's delayed by 10.2ms or 20.4ms?
Thanks guys for the info!
Andrew.
8:47 p.m.
It's nice that many of the RME cards offer monitoring in hardware.
That's what I'm using, so when I send tracks back to the mixer for
outboard processing, I'm always hearing what the card is hearing.
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
10:39 p.m.
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 14:47 -0500, Brent Busby wrote:
It's nice that many of the RME cards offer
monitoring in hardware.
That's what I'm using, so when I send tracks back to the mixer for
outboard processing, I'm always hearing what the card is hearing.
I agree TotalMix is superb.
3:45 p.m.
On 03/15/2013 03:34 PM, Andrew C wrote:
No question is a stupid question, as they say, so I
might as well ask.
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery
None.
In qjackctl->connect connect the synths out (left pane) to the in of the
soundcard (right pane), this should get your synth out of the sound
card. Connect the corresponding harware output to the in of you outboard
what have you, the output of the outboard into an input of the
soundcard. Then in qjackctl connect the out of the soundcard (left pane)
to some app that should receive the modified signal (right pane).
What might seem confusing is that to get sound out of the soundcard you
must connect it to in (right pane) in qjackctl, but that's because
looking from inside the computer the hardware output is actually a
software input.
Makes sense? If something goes wrong, take it one step at the time, and
verify that you have sound after each stage before you proceed.
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk
3:47 p.m.
Am 15.03.2013 15:34, schrieb Andrew C:
Hey all,
No question is a stupid question, as they say, so I might as well ask.
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery would I need to
send a synth running on my laptop through a seperate output channel on
an audio interface with multiple ins/outs, send it, let's say, through
some outboard effects, and then back into the laptop as a seperate
input?
If you got a multi-I/O interface, you can just cable ist ports in Jack
as you would with real copper-cables. Send your Synth to a
Jack-out-port, process it outside and connect the outside-processors
output to another input of the interface as you would a microphone...
Cheers,
Andrew.
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
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3:48 p.m.
Depending on your needs, it could be really easy or a little
complicated :)
You can very easily connect up equipment like you describe, and get
processed audio back into your computer. It just works. However, the
audio that you get back into the computer will be delayed with respect
to the audio you sent out. How much depends on your JACK buffer
settings and the properties of your audio interface and external
equipment; you can measure it with "jdelay".
If you are planning to mix the new sounds with the old, you will need to
delay the old before mixing it with the new. Ardour and most other DAW
software will handle this automatically. If your software doesn't do it
automatically, you can probably manually adjust the new (or old) data
after recording, using "jdelay" output to tell you how much to shift it.
Good luck!
Bill Gribble
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 14:34 +0000, Andrew C wrote:
Hey all,
No question is a stupid question, as they say, so I might as well ask.
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery would I need to
send a synth running on my laptop through a seperate output channel on
an audio interface with multiple ins/outs, send it, let's say, through
some outboard effects, and then back into the laptop as a seperate
input?
Cheers,
Andrew.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:07 p.m.
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 10:48 -0400, Bill Gribble wrote:
You can very easily connect up equipment like you
describe, and get
processed audio back into your computer. It just works. However, the
audio that you get back into the computer will be delayed with respect
to the audio you sent out. How much depends on your JACK buffer
settings and the properties of your audio interface and external
equipment; you can measure it with "jdelay".
If you are planning to mix the new sounds with the old, you will need
to delay the old before mixing it with the new. Ardour and most other
DAW software will handle this automatically.
That's a half-truth!
If you want to monitor the mix in real-time not only by latency
compensation for the recording, than you need exorbitant low latency or
it's simply impossible to get good results.
I'm doing loop in for revberb. It does work for reverb, because the
reverb starts with delay, so I only need to reduce the delay for the 19"
gear by the latency of the PC hardware.
There's no guarantee that using a professional sound card, does provide
exorbitant low latency. I got lower latency for my Envy24 cards, as I
can get for my RME card. There are many factors hat can cause issues,
e.g. a bad mobo chip set and you can't know what will work and what not,
without testing.
11:09 p.m.
On Fri, 2013-03-15 at 16:06 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
I'm doing loop in for revberb. It does work for
reverb, because the
reverb starts with delay, so I only need to reduce the delay for the 19"
gear by the latency of the PC hardware.
As Fons pointed out in a later mail, what I'm talking about is:
"If it is a reverb and does not include the dry sound then the delay
won't matter".
Reverbs usually can mix with the dry signal, IMO it's odd to do it.
Latency will become an issue for e.g. pitch shifting. There are good
reasons to use an external reverb, but I can't see a reason for e.g.
using an external pitch shifter.
10:34 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 02:34:11PM +0000, Andrew C wrote:
No question is a stupid question, as they say, so I
might as well ask.
What kind of external audio hardware/JACK trickery would I need to
send a synth running on my laptop through a seperate output channel on
an audio interface with multiple ins/outs, send it, let's say, through
some outboard effects, and then back into the laptop as a seperate
input?
As others have already pointed out, no trickery is required.
Connecting things via Jack is similar to connecting HW with
cables. If you want to listen to the result in stereo then
you need at least three outputs and one input, if mono is OK
then a normal stereo card will do the job.
Regarding the delay, this could be problem, not matter at all,
or even be a good thing. It all depends on what the external
effect is doing. If it is a reverb and does not include the
dry sound then the delay won't matter. If it is a reverb and
it does contain the dry sound then there's no reason to mix it.
In other cases, if the return signal from the effect is 'similar'
to the original and the delay does create a problem, then you
need to compensate for it *exactly*, not just the nominal value
as shown by Jack, but the exact one that jack-delay will tell
you. A small error could have a worse effect than a big one,
or no compensation at all.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
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12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Andrew C -
Atte -
Bill Gribble -
Brent Busby -
Fons Adriaensen -
Harry van Haaren -
Hartmut Noack -
Ralf Mardorf