13 Jan
2010
13 Jan
'10
6:46 p.m.
Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
of the main theme, with full choir, brass and everything.
The bass is:
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
It's the F# ????? - the surprising modulation just before
the theme repeats - that I'm after. Most PF harmony is quite
straightforward but this one defeats me... Anyone knows this
chord progression ?
TIA,
--
FA
13 Jan
13 Jan
6:53 p.m.
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
of the main theme, with full choir, brass and everything.
The bass is:
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
It's the F# ????? - the surprising modulation just before
the theme repeats - that I'm after. Most PF harmony is quite
straightforward but this one defeats me... Anyone knows this
chord progression ?
TIA,
Wouldn't that be in the key of E, Fons? If so the F# is the II chord,
which would typically resolve to the IV, or B7 in that key. That
wouldn't be a modulation, it would be a "turn-around," and especially so
since the progression continues on with another E.
Frank
9:29 p.m.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 05:53:10PM -0500, frank pirrone wrote:
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
Good call. The II is used in jazz and gospel, IIRC. Zappa did some with it too: the Inca
Roads guitar solo vamp is I-II.
Rick Wright was the only original member of the Pink Floyd who had formal music schooling,
and he was also a jazz fan. David Gilmour might have had some training; I don't
remember.
To drift even farther off topic: I've noticed that people who do not have formal music
schooling tend towards chromaticism, and make it work in interesting ways. Speaking of
Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett didn't have any music schooling, and "Interstellar
Overdrive" is highly chromatic. As are a lot of Radiohead songs-- no music school for
Thom Yorke (Jonny Greenwood was the only member who had music training). I was stunned
some years ago to find out that the progression of the verses of "Morning Bell"
was A minor to A MAJOR. It totally works. Also, a friend and I learned "Pyramid
Song" years ago, charted it out, and discovered it's actually in 4/4: the phrases
are highly syncopated but they add up to 8 (IIRC) bars of 4.
The guys I'm working with do lots of chromatic stuff, but it doesn't sound
avante-garde at all, it sounds like funk/rock, which is what it is.
Maybe one of the Pink Floyd members decided to just throw something different in there,
randomly, just for fun.
-ken
Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
of the main theme, with full choir, brass and everything.
The bass is:
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
It's the F# ????? - the surprising modulation just before
the theme repeats - that I'm after. Most PF harmony is quite
straightforward but this one defeats me... Anyone knows this
chord progression ?
TIA,
Wouldn't that be in the key of E, Fons? If so the F# is the II chord,
which would typically resolve to the IV, or B7 in that key. That
wouldn't be a modulation, it would be a "turn-around," and especially so
since the progression continues on with another E.
9:54 p.m.
To drift even farther off topic: I've noticed that
people who do not have
formal music schooling tend towards chromaticism, and make it work in
interesting ways. Speaking of Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett didn't have any music
schooling, and "Interstellar Overdrive" is highly chromatic. As are a lot of
Radiohead songs-- no music school for Thom Yorke (Jonny Greenwood was the
only member who had music training). I was stunned some years ago to find
out that the progression of the verses of "Morning Bell" was A Also, a
friend and I learned "Pyramid Song" years ago, charted it out, and
discovered it's actually in 4/4: the phrases are highly syncopated but they
add up to 8 (IIRC) bars of 4.
That's interesting - I Ran that song through Sonic Visualiser last year -
and to me it seems as if the percussion is in 4/4 but the piano part repeats
mostly over 22/8 (11/4) but sometimes 10/4... When I broke down the part
into separate phrases I got 7/8, 6/8, 5/8, 4/8. I placed the output of Sonic
Visualiser on a grid which seemed to match perfectly and given the name I am
inclined to think that this is what is going on. It's a very interesting and
contentious song and I could very well be wrong - but that is my theory
10:14 p.m.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:54:22AM +1000, Danni Coy wrote:
That very well could be.
I just found the Rosegarden file in which I put a quantized version of the piano part for
the whole song, and that's what we studied and discovered that it basically can be
divided into common time.
http://restivo.org/misc/pyramid.rg
-ken
To drift even
farther off topic: I've noticed that people who do not have
formal music schooling tend towards chromaticism, and make it work in
interesting ways. Speaking of Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett didn't have any music
schooling, and "Interstellar Overdrive" is highly chromatic. As are a lot of
Radiohead songs-- no music school for Thom Yorke (Jonny Greenwood was the
only member who had music training). I was stunned some years ago to find
out that the progression of the verses of "Morning Bell" was A Also, a
friend and I learned "Pyramid Song" years ago, charted it out, and
discovered it's actually in 4/4: the phrases are highly syncopated but they
add up to 8 (IIRC) bars of 4.
That's interesting - I Ran that song through Sonic Visualiser last year -
and to me it seems as if the percussion is in 4/4 but the piano part repeats
mostly over 22/8 (11/4) but sometimes 10/4... When I broke down the part
into separate phrases I got 7/8, 6/8, 5/8, 4/8. I placed the output of Sonic
Visualiser on a grid which seemed to match perfectly and given the name I am
inclined to think that this is what is going on. It's a very interesting and
contentious song and I could very well be wrong - but that is my theory 
14 Jan
14 Jan
8:25 a.m.
Ken Restivo a écrit :
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:54:22AM +1000, Danni Coy
wrote:
That very well could be.
I just found the Rosegarden file in which I put a quantized version of the
piano part for the whole song, and that's what we studied and discovered that
it basically can be divided into common time.
http://restivo.org/misc/pyramid.rg
-ken
Great!
I take advantage of this topic to (auto-)advertise the Drummer's
"Gigsaw": polymetric possibilities will be integrated in next whole
update. Many thanks to Lilypond again.
It took me ten minutes to make up the joined midi file. (And an half an
hour to play around)
Like an illustration of what you said above:
Kick-hihat is in 4/4 and clave-woodblock in 7/8, 6/8, 5/8 and 4/8.
By the way i'm looking for a way to randomize 'note On' beetween two
values. I want to process that from a midicomp ascii file.
I haven't success with my search. (It seems to me Bash don't fit the bill.)
Thanks for any ideas.
--
Phil.
Superbonus-Project (Site principal) <http://superbonus.project.free.fr>
Superbonus-Project (Plate-forme d'échange):
<http://philippe.hezaine.free.fr>
To drift
even farther off topic: I've noticed that people who do not have
formal music schooling tend towards chromaticism, and make it work in
interesting ways. Speaking of Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett didn't have any music
schooling, and "Interstellar Overdrive" is highly chromatic. As are a lot of
Radiohead songs-- no music school for Thom Yorke (Jonny Greenwood was the
only member who had music training). I was stunned some years ago to find
out that the progression of the verses of "Morning Bell" was A Also, a
friend and I learned "Pyramid Song" years ago, charted it out, and
discovered it's actually in 4/4: the phrases are highly syncopated but they
add up to 8 (IIRC) bars of 4.
That's interesting - I Ran that song through Sonic Visualiser last year -
and to me it seems as if the percussion is in 4/4 but the piano part repeats
mostly over 22/8 (11/4) but sometimes 10/4... When I broke down the part
into separate phrases I got 7/8, 6/8, 5/8, 4/8. I placed the output of Sonic
Visualiser on a grid which seemed to match perfectly and given the name I am
inclined to think that this is what is going on. It's a very interesting and
contentious song and I could very well be wrong - but that is my theory
1:44 a.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 05:53:10PM -0500, frank
pirrone wrote:
Interesting, but that having been said, give me Miles and Trane and
modal explorations any day...
Frank
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
Good call. The II is used in jazz and gospel, IIRC. Zappa did some with it too: the Inca
Roads guitar solo vamp is I-II.
Rick Wright was the only original member of the Pink Floyd who had formal music
schooling, and he was also a jazz fan. David Gilmour might have had some training; I
don't remember.
To drift even farther off topic: I've noticed that people who do not have formal
music schooling tend towards chromaticism, and make it work in interesting ways. Speaking
of Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett didn't have any music schooling, and "Interstellar
Overdrive" is highly chromatic. As are a lot of Radiohead songs-- no music school for
Thom Yorke (Jonny Greenwood was the only member who had music training). I was stunned
some years ago to find out that the progression of the verses of "Morning Bell"
was A minor to A MAJOR. It totally works. Also, a friend and I learned "Pyramid
Song" years ago, charted it out, and discovered it's actually in 4/4: the phrases
are highly syncopated but they add up to 8 (IIRC) bars of 4.
The guys I'm working with do lots of chromatic stuff, but it doesn't sound
avante-garde at all, it sounds like funk/rock, which is what it is.
Maybe one of the Pink Floyd members decided to just throw something different in there,
randomly, just for fun.
-ken
Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
of the main theme, with full choir, brass and everything.
The bass is:
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
It's the F# ????? - the surprising modulation just before
the theme repeats - that I'm after. Most PF harmony is quite
straightforward but this one defeats me... Anyone knows this
chord progression ?
TIA,
Wouldn't that be in the key of E, Fons? If so the F# is the II chord,
which would typically resolve to the IV, or B7 in that key. That
wouldn't be a modulation, it would be a "turn-around," and especially so
since the progression continues on with another E.
4:25 a.m.
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
Good call. The II is used in jazz and gospel, IIRC. Zappa did some with it too: the Inca
Roads guitar solo vamp is I-II.
Rick Wright was the only original member of the Pink Floyd who had formal music
schooling, and he was also a jazz fan. David Gilmour might have had some training; I
don't remember.
Maybe one of the Pink Floyd members decided to just throw something different in there,
randomly, just for fun.
-ken Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
It's the F# ????? - the surprising modulation just before
the theme repeats - that I'm after. Most PF harmony is quite
straightforward but this one defeats me... Anyone knows this
chord progression ?
Wouldn't that be in the key of E, Fons? If so the F# is the II chord,
which would typically resolve to the IV, or B7 in that key. That
wouldn't be a modulation, it would be a "turn-around," and especially so
since the progression continues on with another E.
31 Jan
31 Jan
8:37 a.m.
2010/1/13 <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>et>:
Hello musicians,
Pink Floyd's 'Atom Heart Mother' ends with two repetitions
of the main theme, with full choir, brass and everything.
The bass is:
E G F C, E G F C, E G A B, E G F# ?????, E G F C etc.
That is called a tritonus substitution.
G - F would resolve to C here, as it does first (or to Bb, ..)
but instead the F# is used.
This technique is being used for re-harmonisation as well.
--
E.R.
5412
days inactive
5430
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Hogan -
Danni Coy -
Emanuel Rumpf -
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
frank pirrone -
Ken Restivo -
Philippe Hezaine