16 Jun
2007
16 Jun
'07
11:44 a.m.
Jan Depner:
I didn't say never complain. I said quit
whining. I haven't seen a
No, you didn't. (none of your 4 points contained anything about
complaining, at least not without whining in another place than
this forum, whatever the point of doing that is). But its good to see that
you might agree that complaining might be a good thing though...
single post in this thread that had a single
constructive piece of
advice on how to correct the perceived problems with Ardour. It is OK
to tell them you are not satisfied with it but how about asking for
specific fixes to specific problems?
No, there have been constructive posts here. Just look at Traverso, which
was the start of this discussion. Traverso has many nice ideas. Thats
constructive, and Thorsten also seemed to agree that a couple of things in
traverso is very nice.
The impression I get from your (and some others) posts here though, is
that if you say antyhing negative about ardour, someone will
answer with large emotional posts how great ardour is. And thats _not_
constructive. But I agree, ardour is great, but I also think it could be
much better, and I think people should be encouraged to say what they
think about it and not be afraid of being flamed for doing so. I have a
feeling there might be a little bit of group thinking going on here about
ardour, and in case there is, thats _very bad_.
16 Jun
16 Jun
4:19 p.m.
New subject: DAW usability
On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:45 +0200, Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen wrote:
Jan Depner:
Not true! I only get really pissed off if anyone says anything
negative about JAMin ;-) Actually, I like constructive criticism. My
problem with this thread is that the subject was never approached with a
"gee, wouldn't it be nice if Ardour..." attitude. It was basically
"Ardour sucks and everything else is much better". When I see that type
of criticism my response is usually - either do better or go elsewhere.
I have a great deal of respect for Paul Davis and the rest of the Ardour
crew so I don't really appreciate people bad mouthing them or saying
that their efforts are crap. If someone wants to make things better
they need to provide useful input. If you enjoy receiving garbage like
most of what has been presented in this thread then more power to you.
I will continue to be annoyed by ungrateful whiners.
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chardonnay in one hand, chocolate in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming 'WOO HOO, what a ride'"
I didn't say never complain. I said quit
whining. I haven't seen a
No, you didn't. (none of your 4 points contained anything about
complaining, at least not without whining in another place than
this forum, whatever the point of doing that is). But its good to see that
you might agree that complaining might be a good thing though...
single post in this thread that had a single
constructive piece of
advice on how to correct the perceived problems with Ardour. It is OK
to tell them you are not satisfied with it but how about asking for
specific fixes to specific problems?
No, there have been constructive posts here. Just look at Traverso, which
was the start of this discussion. Traverso has many nice ideas. Thats
constructive, and Thorsten also seemed to agree that a couple of things in
traverso is very nice.
The impression I get from your (and some others) posts here though, is
that if you say antyhing negative about ardour, someone will
answer with large emotional posts how great ardour is. And thats _not_
constructive. But I agree, ardour is great, but I also think it could be
much better, and I think people should be encouraged to say what they
think about it and not be afraid of being flamed for doing so. I have a
feeling there might be a little bit of group thinking going on here about
ardour, and in case there is, thats _very bad_.
8:24 p.m.
New subject: DAW usability
On 6/17/07, Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> wrote:
On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:45 +0200, Kjetil Svalastog
Matheussen wrote:
I thought it was more "Wow, it's great that there is something trying
different UI concepts." The JMB concept in traverso is very different
and it's nice to have a DAW with some more experimental features. The
thread did seem to turn into ardour defending and bashing even though
it was totally un-ardour related to start with. I would have liked it
to continue as a more constructive discussion about the how the JMB
concept works for people and if a keyboard only (but x based)
interaction style was possible.
Loki
Jan Depner:
Not true! I only get really pissed off if anyone says anything
negative about JAMin ;-) Actually, I like constructive criticism. My
problem with this thread is that the subject was never approached with a
"gee, wouldn't it be nice if Ardour..." attitude. It was basically
"Ardour sucks and everything else is much better". When I see that type
of criticism my response is usually - either do better or go elsewhere.
I have a great deal of respect for Paul Davis and the rest of the Ardour
crew so I don't really appreciate people bad mouthing them or saying
that their efforts are crap. If someone wants to make things better
they need to provide useful input. If you enjoy receiving garbage like
most of what has been presented in this thread then more power to you.
I will continue to be annoyed by ungrateful whiners.
I didn't say never complain. I said quit
whining. I haven't seen a
No, you didn't. (none of your 4 points contained anything about
complaining, at least not without whining in another place than
this forum, whatever the point of doing that is). But its good to see that
you might agree that complaining might be a good thing though...
single post in this thread that had a single
constructive piece of
advice on how to correct the perceived problems with Ardour. It is OK
to tell them you are not satisfied with it but how about asking for
specific fixes to specific problems?
No, there have been constructive posts here. Just look at Traverso, which
was the start of this discussion. Traverso has many nice ideas. Thats
constructive, and Thorsten also seemed to agree that a couple of things in
traverso is very nice.
The impression I get from your (and some others) posts here though, is
that if you say antyhing negative about ardour, someone will
answer with large emotional posts how great ardour is. And thats _not_
constructive. But I agree, ardour is great, but I also think it could be
much better, and I think people should be encouraged to say what they
think about it and not be afraid of being flamed for doing so. I have a
feeling there might be a little bit of group thinking going on here about
ardour, and in case there is, thats _very bad_.
8:49 p.m.
New subject: DAW usability
Hi!
I still don't get it. You all talk about being productive, putting forward
reasonable and helpful criticism and it seems you agreed on it in the end. And
still I feel you're still ripping off each others head about the hole thing. I
thought the point was clear and now we could head on to acutally BEING
PRODUCTIVE and REASONABLE! :-)
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
17 Jun
17 Jun
4:33 a.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track (was: DAW usability)
Julien Claassen wrote:
I thought the point was clear and now we could head on
to acutally BEING
PRODUCTIVE and REASONABLE! :-)
I'll try and give it a start, with a different topic. I have some
questions on using ardour, which I've only partially solved after
reading the manual. I'd like to hear how people tackle this, step by
step, possibly including what to click and how.
Problem 1: I've just recorded a single track. It's mostly OK, but
there's a piece where I goofed up, or the microphone got touched and
crackled, or something similar.
Solution: record another (partial) take, and copy a piece of the second
take on top of the first one. Using crossfades I guess, to hide the
transitions.
Questions:
- should I do this using a new playlist, or should I just record a new
region on top of the old recording? Or should I use a completely new
track? (I'm guessing not the last option).
- If I _do_ have the 2 takes in 2 different tracks (both visible below
eachother), I want to select a region in the second track, and copy it
over the first one, keeping the time position the same. How do I do
this? I've read about something like control-click-drag in the manual,
but I can't get it to work. Copy-paste works, but positions the
selection at the beginning of the other track.
- If I record the second take in a new playlist, how do I proceed to do
this then?
- And how to do it if I forgot to make a new playlist, and just use
punch-in recording to re-record a small section?
Problem 2:
after recording, I want to either play or export my recording. Ardour
doesn't stop at the end of the recording by itself. At one point, I
suddenly had an "end" marker where it would stop and return to the
beginning. How do I get that marker? How do I remove it again?
Problem 3:
export project to audio file. Sometimes this gives me an empty audio
file (no signal) of the correct length. I suspect this has to do with
selecting tracks before exporting, but I would expect "export project"
to not care about that. Any ideas what I may be doing wrong there?
Problem 4:
coupling ardour and rosegarden together for midi accompaniment. This
works fine with rosegarden in "slave" mode, I can control
start/stop/record from either program. However, they don't copy
eachothers settings for beats-per-minute and time signature. Is it
possible to automatically carry that information over from one program
to the other?
This probably belongs on an ardour mailing list somewhere, if so please
let me know and I'll repost it. I'm interested in hearing people's
methods to solving such things, though. Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Kind regards and thanks for any input,
Hein Zelle
4:59 a.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track (was: DAW usability)
On 6/17/07, Hein Zelle <hein(a)icce.rug.nl> wrote:
This probably belongs on an ardour mailing list
somewhere, if so please
let me know and I'll repost it. I'm interested in hearing people's
methods to solving such things, though. Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Yes, this belongs to ardour list, but not only. I don't find that off topic
on LAU. You might want to forward the question list to ardour (but before
that, take a look at the documentation if you haven't done so already :
http://www.ardour.org/files/manual/index.html)
You rise the issue of the features/terminology which is one of those topic
that may need some discussion. Whatever the software may be, Linux audio
does have his specific vocabulary. do we have a Linux-audio-glossary
somewhere ? I know Linux-graphics has one edited every year (well... used to
have. The latest one is from 2004). It's a very convenient documentation
that allows one to step in the Linux graphics world with less trouble.
The glossary is in french... Sorry, couldn't find a translation. Still, one
can take a look at it here :
http://www.linuxgraphic.org/downloads/linuxgraphic_org_glossaire_illustre_2…
Cheers,
__________________
Marc-Olivier Barre.
7:55 p.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track
Hein Zelle wrote:
Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Unfortunately, that seems to be how it's done in a LOT of Linux HOW-TO
material.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
18 Jun
18 Jun
7:38 a.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track
On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 13:56 -1000, david wrote:
Hein Zelle wrote:
go into your local bookstore-with-a-computing-section. using audio
sequencers/DAWs will likely have at least 1, perhaps 3-4 shelf-loads of
books on using Sonar, ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo etc. you can sign up at
an audio engineering school to do 1-3 year courses in this stuff. its
*not* simple, its *not* trivial and its not condensable into a HOWTO.
that doesn't mean that there isn't room for some good introductory
material. just don't expect it to instantly bring you up to date quickly
on a field where many people (though a dramatically declining number)
continue to make a decent living because of their knowledge.
--p
Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Unfortunately, that seems to be how it's done in a LOT of Linux HOW-TO
material.
1:19 p.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track
Paul Davis wrote:
On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 13:56 -1000, david wrote:
Oh, I'm not complaining specifically about audio-related documentation.
I know the topic is very complex. But I've read a number of Linux
HOWTOs, and a lot of them assume the reader already understands many things.
Hein Zelle wrote:
go into your local bookstore-with-a-computing-section. using audio
sequencers/DAWs will likely have at least 1, perhaps 3-4 shelf-loads of
books on using Sonar, ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo etc. you can sign up at
an audio engineering school to do 1-3 year courses in this stuff. its
*not* simple, its *not* trivial and its not condensable into a HOWTO. Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Unfortunately,
that seems to be how it's done in a LOT of Linux HOW-TO
material. that doesn't mean that there isn't room for
some good introductory
material.
I've done technical writing (to one degree or another) for about 20
years, so I understand very well how hard it is to communicate in
written forms. I have plans to contribute at that end when work and
other life pressures reduce.
just don't expect it to instantly bring you up to
date quickly
on a field where many people (though a dramatically declining number)
continue to make a decent living because of their knowledge.
I don't expect to get up to date quickly on the field of audio. I used
to make a living as a musician, I so have a great appreciation for sound
techs and audio engineers!
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
6:59 p.m.
New subject: Ardour: fixing errors in a recorded track
On 18 June 2007 at 7:38, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Sun, 2007-06-17 at 13:56 -1000, david wrote:
I've been playing with audio, recording and music since I was a kid,
and there's always more to learn, partly because the industry is
improving, or at least changing, these days. Back in May of this
year this really good message showed up on the ardour-users mailing
list:
------- Forwarded Message
**************************************************
Cc: ardour-users(a)lists.ardour.org
Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 17:48:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [ardour-users] A real howto on audio recording
**************************************************
On Sun, 13 May 2007, lanas wrote:
Hein Zelle wrote:
go into your local bookstore-with-a-computing-section. using audio
sequencers/DAWs will likely have at least 1, perhaps 3-4 shelf-loads of
books on using Sonar, ProTools, Cubase, Nuendo etc. you can sign up at
an audio engineering school to do 1-3 year courses in this stuff. its
*not* simple, its *not* trivial and its not condensable into a HOWTO.
that doesn't mean that there isn't room for some good introductory
material. just don't expect it to instantly bring you up to date quickly
on a field where many people (though a dramatically declining number)
continue to make a decent living because of their knowledge. Not being an audio-expert I'm
rather baffled by all the features and terminology used in
ardour/rosegarden/muse/etc, it seems like you're expected to already
know what everything means and how it's supposed to be used.
Unfortunately, that seems to be how it's done in a LOT of Linux HOW-TO
material. Is there an online or book detailed tutorial on audio
recording that
can be applied to using Ardour and associated tools like Jamin ? I feel
I know so little about the basics of audio recording on how to get good
results, what to look for in mixing instruments, how to suppress noise
from mics, how to use 'effects' for enhancing mixes instead than for
blatant effects, how to 'successfully' record accoustic bass, etc...
There are a good number of resources, both online and in print, that cover
a lot of what you're looking for. Also keep in mind that recording in the
studio has some different demands compared to recording live, but a lot of
the basic principles apply equally to both.
A Google search for "recording microphone techniques" or something similar
will yield some useful reading.
Some good books on recording and sound engineering that I've used are:
"Sound Reinforcement Handbook, Second Edition" by Gary Davis
http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008…
This is a very technical read, and it's one that almost everyone who makes
a living from sound has in their library.
"The Mixing Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinski
http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Engineers-Handbook-Mix-Audio/dp/0872887235/ref…
Online, you can also find lots of good information on Mix Magazine's
website, http://www.mixonline.com/, and other places like
http://www.prosoundweb.com/ but you may want to take it in small doses
because there will be lots of industry jargon...
Hope this helps
jms
_______________________________________________
ardour-users mailing list
ardour-users(a)lists.ardour.org
http://lists.ardour.org/listinfo.cgi/ardour-users-ardour.org
------- End of Forwarded Message
Cheers....
--
Kevin
"The most amazing achievement of the computer software industry is its
continuing cancellation of the steady and staggering gains made by the
computer hardware industry...", Henry Petroski
17 Jun
17 Jun
9:10 a.m.
New subject: DAW usability
This, like many threads, has really degenerated into flames and such.
As I say, opensource is about freedom. I have Ardour. If I am not liking using
this, I have Rosegarden which already does MIDI, or any number of others.
Hay, under windows, there are really just Cakewalk and Steinberg (and maybe
Tracktion). Windows Protools just doesn't cut it.
So let's enjoy the freedom and enjoy experimenting and be more friendly and
respectful and polite to each other.
6503
days inactive
6505
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
10 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
david -
David Baron -
Hein Zelle -
Jan Depner -
Julien Claassen -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen -
Loki Davison -
Marc-Olivier Barre -
Paul Davis