18 Apr
2013
18 Apr
'13
2:14 p.m.
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently given advice is
usually to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of
it? What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
18 Apr
18 Apr
2:29 p.m.
2013/4/18 Brent Busby <brent(a)keycorner.org>rg>:
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently
given advice is usually
to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of it?
What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
do nothing to you keyboard and find space elsewhere...
I suppose a bass in your mix, so I would take care of low ends
0.02€
/r
5:59 p.m.
Am 18.04.2013 14:29, schrieb Raffaele Morelli:
2013/4/18 Brent Busby <brent(a)keycorner.org>rg>:
> When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently given advice is usually
> to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
>
> But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
> 4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of it?
> What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
Some may say: rearrange the song...
I think: there is no such thing as bad sound, only a plethora of
opportunities for wrong sound. If the musicians like it, it sounds
"good"(ever heared norwegian Black Metal? ;-) ). If you hear sounds
competing, play a sane mix to them and ask the musicians, whether they
like it or not and if not, ask them, if they see a possibility to
*play*/arrange it differently.
To unmix wrong arrangements is second-best....
do nothing to you keyboard and find space elsewhere...
I suppose a bass in your mix, so I would take care of low ends
0.02€
/r
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4:51 p.m.
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 07:14:44AM -0500, Brent Busby wrote:
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently
given advice is
usually to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
Just bad advice.
Ciao,
--
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It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
5:24 p.m.
On 04/18/2013 02:14 PM, Brent Busby wrote:
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently
given advice is
usually to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of
it? What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
You will probably have to compromise.
A piano do also span over several octaves, but you often still have to
carve and compromise. You have to give the instruments space and
probably even your keyboard part, but that don't mean that your keyboard
part is lost. This is a good starter for your keyboard part:
1. Remove as much bottom as possible with an HPF filter (12-18 dB), just
turn the HPF up until you hear it bites, then go just a little bit back.
2. When you mix the key part with the rest of the mix, try to find a
sweet spot (a frequency) where your keyboard sounds extra good. Than it
will not hurt to much if you need to cut something.
You can also try to use a tape saturation plugin. That way, the need of
carving will be reduced because tape saturation tends to blend the
instruments together.
Jostein
6:11 p.m.
[Brent Busby]
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard
part that spans a 4-octave
range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of it? What do
you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
If the mix is far too dense, I'd probably try to tackle the problem by
letting the other voices rest altogether or only add sparse, very
short/soft accents. (Preferably by re-writing/re-recording, by muting
selectively otherwise.)
As Hartmut points out, it's a matter of taste of course, but silence
never sounded bad to me. (Si tacuisses ...)
Tim
10:57 p.m.
The more I try it out on different speaker systems, the more I'm
convinced now that it's not so much that the keyboard part itself is
clashing with other tracks as that its warmth is including certain
midrange frequencies that are driving some (but not all) speakers crazy.
That's a problem that happens to me a lot... I just need to find out
which particular frequencies.
It seems that in commercial mixes, they scoop the midrange to the point
of near non-existence to avoid this problem. I've always wanted to
avoid doing that, but I certainly see why they do it.
--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
8:33 p.m.
On 04/18/2013 08:14 AM, Brent Busby wrote:
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently
given advice is
usually to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point
of it? What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
You may be able to accentuate frequencies on the keyboard track so that
it is articulate, and then pull the level of the keys down.
But I think you'll find that finding out what frequencies are competing
with other instruments (guitar?) and pull those frequencies down 1-2dB,
possibly while boosting those same frequencies by a dB or so on the
guitar.
Don't forget placement in the stereo field, as well as the amount of
'verb you put on each. Pull instruments toward the listener a bit by
reducing the reverb on that instrument. Also, make sure that the
keyboard itself is not sending reverb. You want ALL reverb to be added
in the mix, and be the same reverb patch, so everything lives in the
same space. A lot of digital keyboards have a reverb wash on
everything, which makes it impossible to place it in a mix.
--
---
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http://www.lateralforce.com
My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio,
mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
http://audioandmore.wordpress.com
Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
- [Friedrich Nietzsche]
19 Apr
19 Apr
4:26 p.m.
Brent Busby <brent@...> writes:
When sounds are competing in the mix, the frequently
given advice is
usually to carve out frequency ranges for them with EQ.
But what do you do when its a thick analog keyboard part that spans a
4-octave range, and the range it's playing is the whole musical point of
it? What do you do for those parts that won't fit in an EQ shoebox?
I'm thinking of some advice from Ermin Hamidovic, author of The Systematic
Mixing Guide. If it's a thick synth pad, like those 80s stabs, the problem
could be much like the problem of mixing distorted guitars into a crowded
metal mix (he produces metal for a living). His approach is to record the
guitars as big, fat and gnarly as he possibly can, then carve away everywhere
there's some other instrument chewing up frequency real estate. The result
will sound thin when solo'ed, but fill out the mix when the drums, bass,
vocals etc are all in. (This latter point connects with other reasonable
mixing advice I've heard from many other sources: the point in mixing is 100%
NOT to EQ the individual tracks to make them sound great alone, but to make
them sound great together. No one will hear your synth track by itself...)
I have a feeling this technique takes a lot of practice: If done badly, it'll
wreck the instrument's sound more than it'll avoid clashes. But it can be done
well, and it strikes me as a valid approach.
hjh
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Al Thompson -
Brent Busby -
Fons Adriaensen -
Hartmut Noack -
James Harkins -
Jostein Chr. Andersen -
Raffaele Morelli -
Tim Goetze