13 Feb
2010
13 Feb
'10
10:44 p.m.
Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any of them run JACK?
I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge would
be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
-ken
14 Feb
14 Feb
5:28 a.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones
have an FPU? Can any of them run JACK?
I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge would
be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Just had my first cup of coffee... Sorry Ken.
Hello Ken,
The Motorola Droid (or Milestone) and its little brother the Droid
Devour have FPU's. You can also run Android on the Nokia N900 which has
an FPU also. And then there's the Nexus One.
I'm sharing your curiosity so I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Best,
Jeremy
6:21 a.m.
The Nexus One has a '600MHz' FPU on its Qualcomm ARM core. I doubt if
that will translate into 600 MFlops as there will be performance degredation
and any app has to be quite specifically coded to actually use the FPU, a bit
like you have to code specifically for MMX and SSE on Intel architectures,
the compiler does not do this automatically.
If the code does not optimise onto the architecture you end up with soft floats
and consequent performanace limitations. I wouldn't imagine softfloats being
be a big issue for Jack itself but may be for any code that wanted to do any DSP
on the audio distributed by Jack.
You also need to consider that having limited FPU performance may imply
having multiple apps running DSP code is out of the question, which implies
Jack (as an audio distribution server) is of limited use.
Android is an interesting platform though, not least because it does have
reasonable horsepower on the Nexus and it is multitasking. Why the iPhone
dropped that capability beats a lot of people.
How much are you looking to do on it?
Kind regards, nick.
"we have to make sure the old choice [Windows] doesn't disappear”.
Jim Wong, president of IT products, Acer
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:28:47 +0100
From: jeremy(a)autostatic.com
To: linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [LAU] Linux audio droid?
Ken Restivo wrote:
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
https://signup.live.com/signup.aspx?id=60969
Just curious: do any of the Android-capable
phones have an FPU? Can any of them run JACK?
I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge would
be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Just had my first cup of coffee... Sorry Ken.
Hello Ken,
The Motorola Droid (or Milestone) and its little brother the Droid
Devour have FPU's. You can also run Android on the Nokia N900 which has
an FPU also. And then there's the Nexus One.
I'm sharing your curiosity so I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Best,
Jeremy
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user 
7:07 a.m.
Fixing up that top-posting...
On Sunday 14 February 2010 11:21:23 Nick Copeland wrote:
> Ken Restivo wrote:
> > Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any
> > of them run JACK?
> > I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next
> > challenge would be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
> The Motorola Droid (or Milestone) and its little brother the Droid
> Devour have FPU's. You can also run Android on the Nokia N900 which has
> an FPU also. And then there's the Nexus One.
> I'm sharing your curiosity so I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Why not run the linux that already comes with the n900. Or are you that fixed
on sending google all your data ;-)
You also need to consider that having limited FPU
performance may imply
having multiple apps running DSP code is out of the question, which
implies Jack (as an audio distribution server) is of limited use.
But I do think, running one organ synth standalone would work. Only a matter
of getting the midi-data from the keyboard into the phone.
And a matter of stopping the foh-tech from killing himself laughing when you
plug in you request a DI-box and connect your stereo-mini-jack-to-two-mono-
jacks adaptor to connect your phone for making music.
And then you have to make sure no one calls you during the show, otherwise
your girlfriend/wife/mother speaks to you over the big pa :-P
Android is an interesting platform though, not least
because it does have
reasonable horsepower on the Nexus and it is multitasking. Why the iPhone
dropped that capability beats a lot of people.
I don't think the iphone dropped multitasking. Otherwise you would have to run
the "phone" app all the time to be able to receive calls. And you couldn't
receive short messages because that app is not running. What they disabled,
probably because of extensive user-analysis, is the application switching in
gui. And even that I am not entirely sure as I haven't actually gotten an i*
in my hands...
Have fun,
Arnold
8:32 a.m.
On 02/14/2010 10:06 PM, Arnold Krille wrote:
They disabled userspace multi tasking. You can get access to it if you
jailbreak.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Android is an
interesting platform though, not least because it does have
reasonable horsepower on the Nexus and it is multitasking. Why the iPhone
dropped that capability beats a lot of people.
I don't think the iphone dropped multitasking. Otherwise you would have
to run
the "phone" app all the time to be able to receive calls. And you couldn't
receive short messages because that app is not running. What they disabled,
probably because of extensive user-analysis, is the application switching in
gui. And even that I am not entirely sure as I haven't actually gotten an i*
in my hands... 
12:01 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:06:45PM +0100, Arnold Krille wrote:
Fixing up that top-posting...
On Sunday 14 February 2010 11:21:23 Nick Copeland wrote:
this could actually be a nice element of the show.
(if you like my music, call me.)
and mom would call to end the show :)
> Ken Restivo wrote:
> > Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any
> > of them run JACK?
> > I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next
> > challenge would be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
> The Motorola Droid (or Milestone) and its little brother the Droid
> Devour have FPU's. You can also run Android on the Nokia N900 which has
> an FPU also. And then there's the Nexus One.
> I'm sharing your curiosity so I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Why not run the linux that already comes with the n900. Or are you that fixed
on sending google all your data ;-)
You also need to consider that having limited FPU
performance may imply
having multiple apps running DSP code is out of the question, which
implies Jack (as an audio distribution server) is of limited use.
But I do think, running one organ synth standalone would work. Only a matter
of getting the midi-data from the keyboard into the phone.
And a matter of stopping the foh-tech from killing himself laughing when you
plug in you request a DI-box and connect your stereo-mini-jack-to-two-mono-
jacks adaptor to connect your phone for making music.
And then you have to make sure no one calls you during the show, otherwise
your girlfriend/wife/mother speaks to you over the big pa :-P _______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
torben Hohn
1:59 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, Arnold Krille wrote:
And a matter of stopping the foh-tech from killing
himself laughing when you
plug in you request a DI-box and connect your stereo-mini-jack-to-two-mono-
jacks adaptor to connect your phone for making music.
Actually, I've seen The David Crowder*Band do this as a part
of their show. Several musicians had their voices going
through an iPhone with an auto-tune processor in the phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rKxO9q33YU
They also use it in the song 'Dance.' Sure, they could have
just done it with a foot-switch processor or had the FOH
engineer use a rack effect -- but what's the phun in that?
-gabriel
3:35 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 11:59:02AM -0600, Gabriel M. Beddingfield wrote:
On Sun, 14 Feb 2010, Arnold Krille wrote:
First of all, FOH techs already laugh at me when I present them with two male XLR jacks
going to TLS dongles into a M-Audio FastTrack and an EEEpc. At least it saves them from
having to go fish out a DI box.
The sound in their voices is always really interesting when they're calling sound
checks: they get through the drumset, guitars, basses, B3 (if present), and then they say,
"OK, um, laptop, I guess?". It's a mixture of respect, disdain, amusement,
and confusion.
If (probably when) I use a phone/palmtop/gameconsole platform as a synth, it'll be one
with USB host capability and the sound will be coming out of the FastTrack, not a
1/8" stereo jack. And that interface will not be used for actual phone calls.
In my occasional nerdy dreaming modes, I thought of hacking up one of those large
LED-matrix scrolling displays to a Linux-based phone, and giving out the number onstage so
the audience can text us while we're playing. Or face the LED towards the audience so
they can blast out random texts to the whole audience.
As for the ARM's/Droids/Pandoras/etc, it looks like technology is not quite ready yet,
but it's getting there. Recompiling audio apps with funky -m flags is no problem, but
rewriting for example LADSPA plugins to add ASM to use the FPU sounds like more work than
it'd be worth.
Still, I'd estimate by next year it'll be all squared away.
-ken
And a matter of stopping the foh-tech from
killing himself laughing when you
plug in you request a DI-box and connect your stereo-mini-jack-to-two-mono-
jacks adaptor to connect your phone for making music.
Actually, I've seen The David Crowder*Band do this as a part
of their show. Several musicians had their voices going
through an iPhone with an auto-tune processor in the phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rKxO9q33YU
They also use it in the song 'Dance.' Sure, they could have
just done it with a foot-switch processor or had the FOH
engineer use a rack effect -- but what's the phun in that?
15 Feb
15 Feb
5:41 a.m.
Going off on the artistical tangent...
On Sunday 14 February 2010 20:34:19 Ken Restivo wrote:
First of all, FOH techs already laugh at me when I
present them with two
male XLR jacks going to TLS dongles into a M-Audio FastTrack and an EEEpc.
At least it saves them from having to go fish out a DI box.
They shouldn't laugh. Probably that FastTrack has symmetrical outs, if so, its
better to use them directly then going through a DI-Box...
The sound in their voices is always really interesting
when they're calling
sound checks: they get through the drumset, guitars, basses, B3 (if
present), and then they say, "OK, um, laptop, I guess?". It's a mixture
of
respect, disdain, amusement, and confusion.
Would be even more fun when the sound of drumset, basss and B3 where already
coming through your laptop:-P
In my occasional nerdy dreaming modes, I thought of
hacking up one of those
large LED-matrix scrolling displays to a Linux-based phone, and giving out
the number onstage so the audience can text us while we're playing. Or
face the LED towards the audience so they can blast out random texts to
the whole audience.
Hehe, have them send text-messages trough sms or twitter/identica, feed these
texts into festival or any other speach synthesis, feed that into autotune or
autotalent to make it tune to your melodie and you get singers for free:-)
As for the ARM's/Droids/Pandoras/etc, it looks
like technology is not quite
ready yet, but it's getting there. Recompiling audio apps with funky -m
flags is no problem, but rewriting for example LADSPA plugins to add ASM
to use the FPU sounds like more work than it'd be worth.
Still, I'd estimate by next year it'll be all squared away.
Part of me thinks that in one or two years these processors in cell-phones
will do floating-point as fast as fixed-point/integer calculations...
Have fun,
Arnold
PS: Please don't CC me, I am subscribed...
14 Feb
14 Feb
10:16 a.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones
have an FPU? Can any of them run JACK?
I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge would
be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Hi Ken
For ARM-based (esp the current crop of A8 based) devices this should help;
http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization
Cheers
R
18 Feb
18 Feb
9:45 a.m.
On 02/14/2010 03:42 AM, Ken Restivo wrote:
Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones
have an FPU? Can any of them run JACK?
I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge would
be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
I've spent quite a lot of time developing on Android these last months, both in
Java and in C.
Some devices (quite a few actually) have an FPU, some don't. But the point is
that when compiling C/C++ code using the Android Native Dev Kit (NDK), you are
currently forced to use soft floats. So, if you want your app to work on a
standard Android system, FPU or not, you can't use it currently.
I've coded audio-related stuff in C using the NDK, including recording and
fft-based filtering. The only public APIs which allow you to access the audio
hardware are in Java. And they're quite terrible actually, don't even imagine
using these for any low-latency stuff. iPhone OS is currently way ahead AFAICS.
Now there's the other path (which I haven't tried): installing another Linux
distro, such as Debian, on your device. I believe that chances are great that
you could run Jack this way. And if you still want to use your phone as a phone,
then you may even be able to dual boot, but again I haven't done that.
HTH
--
Olivier
9:57 a.m.
On 02/18/2010 02:45 PM, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 02/14/2010 03:42 AM, Ken Restivo wrote:
> Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any of them run
JACK?
>
> I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge
would be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
Btw, you also really should check Maemo and the Nokia N900. That's much more of
a Linux system: GTK-based, PulseAudio included, etc... In Android, there isn't
much left apart from the kernel.
--
Olivier
10:16 a.m.
On 02/19/2010 12:57 AM, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 02/18/2010 02:45 PM, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
Palm Pre is also running PA and various other useful apps/libs. In
combination with webkit there's potential for a cross platform mobile
audio app that could be run on all the major mobile OS's.
Also don't forget Ubuntu Mobile and Google Chrome OS is looking like it
has potential too.
I guess at some point there will need to be a mobile studio distro.
Probably built around webkit to ensure maximum compatibility.
It really depends what you are looking to achieve. I can imagine a whole
row/grid of devices with multiple apps on each one. Played with touch,
some doing background processing, others doing control and others used
for specialist sounds... Would be fun to build and play and a fairly
unique performance at the moment.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On 02/14/2010 03:42 AM, Ken Restivo wrote:
> Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any of them run
JACK?
>
> I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge
would be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
>
Btw, you also really should check Maemo and the Nokia N900. That's
much more of
a Linux system: GTK-based, PulseAudio included, etc... In Android, there isn't
much left apart from the kernel.
2:47 p.m.
On Thursday 18 February 2010 09:16 am, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Palm Pre is also running PA and various other useful
apps/libs. In
combination with webkit there's potential for a cross platform mobile
audio app that could be run on all the major mobile OS's.
I have a Pre and have already messed with audio a little, but was only able
to get any input from gstreamer, and that was pretty flaky. Haven't tried
to port any audio apps over. But I see SDL is ported now, so between that
and PA there must be lower-level access to the hardware. Good to know.
It certainly is a much more complete Linux environment than Android, even
if it's experiencing Windows-Mobile-like levels of unpopularity.
Rob
1:54 p.m.
On 02/18/2010 05:34 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
It may, but there's absolutely no guarantee about that. It's not part of the
public APIs. Vendors may choose to do things differently. Some developers do
play with internal/private APIs, but it's heavily discouraged because likely to
break in a later Android release and/or on a specific device.
Actually, the next Android official audio API has great chances to be OpenSL ES
(which, after looking at the specs, looks like a nightmare to me).
--
Olivier
Btw, you also
really should check Maemo and the Nokia N900. That's
much more of
a Linux system: GTK-based, PulseAudio included, etc... In Android, there
isn't
much left apart from the kernel.
I thought Android uses ALSA for audio, no?
3 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 02:57:51PM +0100, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
On 02/18/2010 02:45 PM, Olivier Guilyardi wrote:
Thanks, there was an earlier post about the N900. He also mentioned that the apps would
have to be not just recompiled with CPU-specific flags, but rewritten to use ASM calls to
get the FPU to work. That's much more work than I have interest in at this time.
Indeed, it'd have to run a proper Linux distro like Debian for me to consider using
it; glad Maemo is that.
However, the prices on these things are still in the insane territory (i.e. US$400), so I
ain't going there for at least a few years until these become "obsolete" and
can be had for US$100 or so on Craigslist. I consider myself lucky if I can make US$50 a
night, so expensive hardware is way out of reach for me.
-ken
On 02/14/2010 03:42 AM, Ken Restivo wrote:
> Just curious: do any of the Android-capable phones have an FPU? Can any of them run
JACK?
>
> I've got a Linux audio instrument that fits in my backpack; the next challenge
would be to see if I can get on that fits in my pocket.
Btw, you also really should check Maemo and the Nokia N900. That's much more of
a Linux system: GTK-based, PulseAudio included, etc... In Android, there isn't
much left apart from the kernel.
19 Feb
19 Feb
7:24 a.m.
On 02/18/2010 07:59 PM, Ken Restivo wrote:
Thanks, there was an earlier post about the N900. He
also mentioned that the apps would have to be not just recompiled with CPU-specific flags,
but rewritten to use ASM calls to get the FPU to work. That's much more work than I
have interest in at this time.
I think you need CodeSourcery GCC:
http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm
More about compiling for the ARM Cortex A8 (N900's cpu):
http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization
Also, the guy who ported Quake3 to Android enabled the FPU using a recent GCC:
http://osdir.com/ml/android-ndk/2010-01/msg00174.html
However, the prices on these things are still in the
insane territory (i.e. US$400), so I ain't going there for at least a few years until
these become "obsolete" and can be had for US$100 or so on Craigslist. I
consider myself lucky if I can make US$50 a night, so expensive hardware is way out of
reach for me.
Then, for something that fits into you pocket, maybe that you could hack
something around a Beagleboard.. Should be lots of fun :)
--
Olivier
5201
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
17 comments
11 participants
participants (
participants (11)
)
-
Arnold Krille -
Gabriel M. Beddingfield -
Ivica Ico Bukvic -
Jeremy -
Ken Restivo -
Nick Copeland -
Olivier Guilyardi -
Patrick Shirkey -
rob -
Rob -
torbenh
-
Arnold Krille
-
Gabriel M. Beddingfield
-
Ivica Ico Bukvic
-
Jeremy
-
Ken Restivo
-
Nick Copeland
-
Olivier Guilyardi
-
Patrick Shirkey
-
rob
-
Rob
-
torbenh