9 Dec
2015
9 Dec
'15
9:17 p.m.
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24. Below is an
excerpt from my project proposal - the list of features I would like to implement -
[quote]
<< Basic (simple changes that should be quick to address) >>
- Swap default on midi autoconnect to second value (add to config file)
- Song / loop mode switch in main UI
- Recent files list
- Move config file to .config folder in /home
- Label keys correctly on loops past bank 1
<< Medium (bug fixes, smaller new features) >>
- Don't take scene change inputs when renaming loops
- With dual screens, remember window placement
- Darken Song mode (overall dark theme like Ardour?)
- Fix glitch with overlaps in loops
- Session manager fixes
- Toggle loops in song mode
- Click time bar to position transport
- Draw and re-position snap in song mode should behave identically
- Add one shot loops
- Decrease size of grid in song mode
- Add name of scene to the side when in song view
- Add autosave function
- Midi send if halfway through note (can be enabled / disabled in preferences)
- Draw whole notes instead of cutting off early in song mode loops
- Add configurable defaults for note length/ grid snap
- Add note stop/panic button
- Loop colouring
- Fix bug where certain slots cannot contain loops
<< Challenging (significant new features) >>
- Add Box select in song editor (REAPER style)
- Add redo in song mode
- Add Record in song mode
- Allow splitting of song loops at mouse pointer
- Zoom in song mode
- Window title should just have the song name
- Fix jack sync bug/reset button
- Relative velocity altering (REAPER style)
- Add a double / half timing switch for live performance
Where I note “REAPER style”, I plan to source inspiration from the REAPER audio
workstation I use under Windows (http://reaper.fm/). The “Ardour” I mention is a Linux
audio workstation, and probably the most significant audio project on Linux
(http://ardour.org/).
[end quote]
What do you all think? It'll also be great to have a few people test it during
development.
This project will also be open source, and remain faithful to the ideals of the original
project.
If you have any feedback on my list of changes or any other suggestions, please do get in
touch!
Best,
Oliver
9 Dec
9 Dec
9:36 p.m.
I wish your project well! I like Seq24 a lot, but the thing that always
made it unusable for me (not on your list):
- Sometimes "loses" note events sent to external Midi hardware. Very
easy to reproduce, since a loop will obviously play the same sequence
over and over, yet the phrase doesn't quite reach the device the same
way on each repeat (notes missing). I don't know if anyone else has
this problem, but Seq24 is the only sequencer that does this on my
system. Muse works fine, as does QMidiArp, as does Hydrogen.
If you can fix that lost note events thing for physical Midi devices,
that will make Seq24 useful for me...
--
- Brent Busby + ===============================================
+ "With the rise of social networking
-- Keycorner -- + sites, computers are making people
-- Recording -- + easier to use every day."
----------------+ ===============================================
9:51 p.m.
New subject: Off-topic: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 20:17:25 +0000, oli_kester wrote:
probably the most significant audio project on Linux
You should avoid ranking and superlatives. There are a few eminent audio
projects, they all together are significant for Linux audio. Just
to name one, Yoshimi. Ardour most likely is the best Linux audio
recording software, but already ZynAddSubFX was used as a stand alone
synth by musicians, who usually don't use Linux.
10:17 p.m.
Hey!
As a frequent user of seq24, I can say that I would really welcome some
development, however, many of the features you list I don't understand.
I think it would be useful to read what problems everyone experiences the
most. For me turning midi ports on by default is a must, I have no idea why
would anyone think this should be turned off by default :)
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:17 PM, oli_kester <oli_kester(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24.
Below is an excerpt from my project proposal - the list of features I would
like to implement -
[quote]
<< Basic (simple changes that should be quick to address) >>
- Swap default on midi autoconnect to second value (add to config file)
- Song / loop mode switch in main UI
- Recent files list
- Move config file to .config folder in /home
- Label keys correctly on loops past bank 1
<< Medium (bug fixes, smaller new features) >>
- Don't take scene change inputs when renaming loops
- With dual screens, remember window placement
- Darken Song mode (overall dark theme like Ardour?)
- Fix glitch with overlaps in loops
- Session manager fixes
- Toggle loops in song mode
- Click time bar to position transport
- Draw and re-position snap in song mode should behave identically
- Add one shot loops
- Decrease size of grid in song mode
- Add name of scene to the side when in song view
- Add autosave function
- Midi send if halfway through note (can be enabled / disabled in
preferences)
- Draw whole notes instead of cutting off early in song mode loops
- Add configurable defaults for note length/ grid snap
- Add note stop/panic button
- Loop colouring
- Fix bug where certain slots cannot contain loops
<< Challenging (significant new features) >>
- Add Box select in song editor (REAPER style)
- Add redo in song mode
- Add Record in song mode
- Allow splitting of song loops at mouse pointer
- Zoom in song mode
- Window title should just have the song name
- Fix jack sync bug/reset button
- Relative velocity altering (REAPER style)
- Add a double / half timing switch for live performance
Where I note “REAPER style”, I plan to source inspiration from the REAPER
audio workstation I use under Windows (http://reaper.fm/). The “Ardour” I
mention is a Linux audio workstation, and probably the most significant
audio project on Linux (http://ardour.org/).
[end quote]
What do you all think? It'll also be great to have a few people test it
during development.
This project will also be open source, and remain faithful to the ideals
of the original project.
If you have any feedback on my list of changes or any other suggestions,
please do get in touch!
Best,
Oliver
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.com/ <http://www.louigiverona.ru/>
10 Dec
10 Dec
9:37 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 09/12/2015 22:17, Louigi Verona wrote:
...
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
Personally I find multiple windows a very nice distinctive feature on
Linux vs. other OSs, especially for complex applications which offer
different 'interaction paradigms'. An example is a sequencer : having a
new matrix window open possibly for multiple tracks is useful, having
another window for the score editing. Possibly putting those windows on
different workspaces.
Also the option e.g. to only those windows (not the whole application)
'always on top' can be useful (and it's good to have options)
Throw in the multitude of window managers out there and choice is really
wide.
Lorenzo
10:34 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 09:38:03 +0100
Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/12/2015 22:17, Louigi Verona wrote:
Precisely my view too. Also, I find that when presented with a huge mass of
controls all in one window it's much harder to focus on a specific function.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
...
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
Personally I find multiple windows a very nice distinctive feature on
Linux vs. other OSs, especially for complex applications which offer
different 'interaction paradigms'. An example is a sequencer : having a
new matrix window open possibly for multiple tracks is useful, having
another window for the score editing. Possibly putting those windows on
different workspaces.
Also the option e.g. to only those windows (not the whole application)
'always on top' can be useful (and it's good to have options)
Throw in the multitude of window managers out there and choice is really
wide.
Lorenzo 
10:42 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 10 Dec 2015 08:37, "Lorenzo Sutton" <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 09/12/2015 22:17, Louigi Verona wrote:
Linux
vs. other OSs, especially for complex applications which offer
different 'interaction paradigms'.
Generally I'm more on Louigi's side of the argument here. I find lots of
windows opening by default distinctively annoying. However, there are
obviously use cases, such as with multiple workspaces or monitors. I'd
prefer this to be user configurable though.
The UI toolkit I use for Praxis LIVE starts off as single window, but
allows the user to drag features around inside the main window, or outside
into a new window. Surely that's a feature of most UI toolkits that support
MDI, and actually meets both requirements above?
Best wishes,
Neil
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't
understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
Personally I find multiple windows a very nice distinctive feature on 
2:38 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:42 AM, Neil C Smith <neilcsmith.net(a)googlemail.com
wrote:
The UI toolkit I use for Praxis LIVE starts off as single window, but
allows the user to drag features around inside the main window, or outside
into a new window.
Thus duplicating the functions of a window manager both inside and outside
your application, and causing cognitive dissonance for the user if the
external WM behaves differently from the internal one. It is cool, but I'm
not sure it is wise.
Surely that's a feature of most UI toolkits that
support MDI, and actually
meets both requirements above?
Most UI toolkits do not support MIDI. Most UI toolkits do not allow the
user to edit layouts at run-time.
11 Dec
11 Dec
12:26 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 10 December 2015 at 13:38, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
Assuming you mean MDI?! ;-)
I possibly should have said "or in common libraries", but it's not
that unusual to find in Linux software. AFAICT it's perfectly
feasible in eg. QT or GTK?
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections -
www.digitalprisoners.co.uk
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 4:42 AM, Neil C Smith
<neilcsmith.net(a)googlemail.com> wrote:
I'm talking about a style of MDI that Wikipedia's collective wisdom(!)
would call an IDE-style interface.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_document_interface#IDE-style_interfa…
Not entirely surprising seen as Praxis LIVE is an IDE. It's a style
of interface that is not easy or possible to replicate with the
functions of a window manager - definitely not in the more common
ones!
But, the key point was that such an interface, as long as it supports
persistence, can meet both needs (single / multiple windows) or
something in between.
The UI toolkit I use for Praxis LIVE starts off
as single window, but
allows the user to drag features around inside the main window, or outside
into a new window.
Thus duplicating the functions of a window manager both inside and outside
your application, and causing cognitive dissonance for the user if the
external WM behaves differently from the internal one. It is cool, but I'm
not sure it is wise. Surely
that's a feature of most UI toolkits that support MDI, and actually
meets both requirements above?
Most UI toolkits do not support MIDI. Most UI toolkits do not allow the user
to edit layouts at run-time.
4:51 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Neil C Smith <neilcsmith.net(a)googlemail.com
wrote:
> On 10 December 2015 at 13:38, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com>
wrote:
>
> I'm talking about a style of MDI that Wikipedia's collective wisdom(!)
> would call an IDE-style interface.
>
bwahahah. i'm a moron. so immersed in MIDI that I failed to read that as
MDI. sorry.
note that MDI is generally frowned on by GTK developers, and isn't easy to
do in full with either Qt or GTK (though Qt does make it a lot easier).
2:31 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 11 December 2015 at 03:51, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
bwahahah. i'm a moron. so immersed in MIDI that I
failed to read that as
MDI. sorry.
ha ha, I wondered! :-)
note that MDI is generally frowned on by GTK
developers,
A group renowned for listening to what their users want!
Actually, MDI vs SDI is in some ways incorrect terminology in that it
somewhat implies a "window" per "document". Whereas some of this
about having 8 different "windows" that all refer to different aspects
of the same thing. Then I want that greater flexibility to create my
own layouts to suit my own workflow - some separate, some attached. I
generally find I always want the in-between - eg. both of GIMPs
windowing modes annoy me!
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections -
www.digitalprisoners.co.uk
12 Dec
12 Dec
1:28 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On December 11, 2015 01:31:38 PM Neil C Smith wrote:
On 11 December 2015 at 03:51, Paul Davis
<paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
Hark!
I hear the sound of MDI SDI and Mac !
We got y'all covered ;-)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53315356/muse_MDI_settings.jpeg
bwahahah. i'm a moron. so immersed in MIDI
that I failed to read that as
MDI. sorry.
ha ha, I wondered! :-)
note that MDI is generally frowned on by GTK
developers,
A group renowned for listening to what their users want!
Actually, MDI vs SDI is in some ways incorrect terminology in that it
somewhat implies a "window" per "document". Whereas some of this
about having 8 different "windows" that all refer to different aspects
of the same thing. Then I want that greater flexibility to create my
own layouts to suit my own workflow - some separate, some attached. I
generally find I always want the in-between - eg. both of GIMPs
windowing modes annoy me!
Best wishes,
Neil 
10 Dec
10 Dec
10:42 a.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
I am not against different workspaces or opening things at the same time to
look at both of them. I am against this being done with many windows. I
cannot afford having 12 windows tabs and having to switch around all the
time. There are other ways to organize this within one window. Blender GUI
is one example.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:38 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 09/12/2015 22:17, Louigi Verona wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.com/ <http://www.louigiverona.ru/>
...
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
Personally I find multiple windows a very nice distinctive feature on
Linux vs. other OSs, especially for complex applications which offer
different 'interaction paradigms'. An example is a sequencer : having a new
matrix window open possibly for multiple tracks is useful, having another
window for the score editing. Possibly putting those windows on different
workspaces.
Also the option e.g. to only those windows (not the whole application)
'always on top' can be useful (and it's good to have options)
Throw in the multitude of window managers out there and choice is really
wide.
Lorenzo
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
3:10 p.m.
New subject: [OT]: Multiple windows paradigm - [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, 10 Dec 2015, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
On 09/12/2015 22:17, Louigi Verona wrote:
> ...
>
> A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
> obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
Having the option is nice yes. A 13 inch screen on a laptop is a good
example.
Personally I find multiple windows a very nice distinctive feature on Linux
vs. other OSs, especially for complex applications which offer different
'interaction paradigms'. An example is a sequencer : having a new matrix
window open possibly for multiple tracks is useful, having another window for
the score editing. Possibly putting those windows on different workspaces.
Also the option e.g. to only those windows (not the whole application)
'always on top' can be useful (and it's good to have options)
Throw in the multitude of window managers out there and choice is really
wide.
On a desktop with two or more monitors, The ability to detach windows
makes for a nicer quicker workflow. Monitors are cheap any more. If I am
paying $90 in Canada, they must be $65ish US.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
11 Dec
11 Dec
12:01 a.m.
Am 09.12.2015 um 22:17 schrieb Louigi Verona:
Hey!
As a frequent user of seq24, I can say that I would really welcome some
development, however, many of the features you list I don't understand.
I think it would be useful to read what problems everyone experiences the
most. For me turning midi ports on by default is a must, I have no idea why
would anyone think this should be turned off by default :)
Absolutely!
Seq24 should show its available Midi-connections in any ALSA/JACK Midi
connector like Carla or qjackctl.
To be frank: that is the only feature I really sorely miss in it....
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux
obsession with opening a zillion of windows.
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:17 PM, oli_kester <oli_kester(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24.
Below is an excerpt from my project proposal - the list of features I would
like to implement -
[quote]
<< Basic (simple changes that should be quick to address) >>
- Swap default on midi autoconnect to second value (add to config file)
- Song / loop mode switch in main UI
- Recent files list
- Move config file to .config folder in /home
- Label keys correctly on loops past bank 1
<< Medium (bug fixes, smaller new features) >>
- Don't take scene change inputs when renaming loops
- With dual screens, remember window placement
- Darken Song mode (overall dark theme like Ardour?)
- Fix glitch with overlaps in loops
- Session manager fixes
- Toggle loops in song mode
- Click time bar to position transport
- Draw and re-position snap in song mode should behave identically
- Add one shot loops
- Decrease size of grid in song mode
- Add name of scene to the side when in song view
- Add autosave function
- Midi send if halfway through note (can be enabled / disabled in
preferences)
- Draw whole notes instead of cutting off early in song mode loops
- Add configurable defaults for note length/ grid snap
- Add note stop/panic button
- Loop colouring
- Fix bug where certain slots cannot contain loops
<< Challenging (significant new features) >>
- Add Box select in song editor (REAPER style)
- Add redo in song mode
- Add Record in song mode
- Allow splitting of song loops at mouse pointer
- Zoom in song mode
- Window title should just have the song name
- Fix jack sync bug/reset button
- Relative velocity altering (REAPER style)
- Add a double / half timing switch for live performance
Where I note “REAPER style”, I plan to source inspiration from the REAPER
audio workstation I use under Windows (http://reaper.fm/). The “Ardour” I
mention is a Linux audio workstation, and probably the most significant
audio project on Linux (http://ardour.org/).
[end quote]
What do you all think? It'll also be great to have a few people test it
during development.
This project will also be open source, and remain faithful to the ideals
of the original project.
If you have any feedback on my list of changes or any other suggestions,
please do get in touch!
Best,
Oliver
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
19 Dec
19 Dec
4:05 p.m.
El dic 10, 2015 8:01 PM, "Hartmut Noack" <zettberlin(a)linuxuse.de>
escribió:
Look for oli_kester response in this thread to enable MIDI ports in ALSA
for seq24
Am 09.12.2015 um 22:17 schrieb Louigi Verona:
> Hey!
>
> As a frequent user of seq24, I can say that I would really welcome some
> development, however, many of the features you list I don't understand.
>
> I think it would be useful to read what problems everyone experiences
the
> most. For me turning midi ports on by default is
a must, I have no idea
why
would anyone
think this should be turned off by default :)
Absolutely!
Seq24 should show its available Midi-connections in any ALSA/JACK Midi
connector like Carla or qjackctl.
To be frank: that is the only feature I really sorely miss in it....
4:34 p.m.
Hi Louigi
That list is just rough ideas, jotted down whenever something held me back when making
music. Some of the ideas are a little hazy for me too! I plan to go through and break each
down in detail in a few weeks. In the meantime though, feel free to ask me any questions
about specific features and I'll have a go at explaining what I mean.
The midi ports thing is a no brainier for me - one of the first things I plan to sort! I
agree with you on the single window debate, but don't want to change the program too
much that people don't stick with it :)
Thanks,
Oliver
---- On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 21:17:49 +0000 Louigi Verona<louigi.verona(a)gmail.com> wrote
----
Hey!
As a frequent user of seq24, I can say that I would really welcome some development,
however, many of the features you list I don't understand.
I think it would be useful to read what problems everyone experiences the most. For me
turning midi ports on by default is a must, I have no idea why would anyone think this
should be turned off by default :)
A single window mode is very welcome. I don't understand this Linux obsession with
opening a zillion of windows.
9 Dec
9 Dec
10:44 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 5:17 AM, oli_kester <oli_kester(a)zoho.com> wrote:
For my final year university project, I am taking on
an overhaul of seq24.
You may not be aware, but a similar project exists on github:
https://github.com/ahlstromcj/sequencer64
It may be good to contact the author and share ideas or collaborate?
10:51 p.m.
Thanks Michael - I am aware. Did a separate and more technical email on the developers
mailing lists specifically mentioning that project, and reaching out to the developer.
I'm very interested in Chris' project and sharing ideas with him :)
Cheers,
Oliver
---- On Wed, 09 Dec 2015 21:44:49 +0000 michael noble<looplog(a)gmail.com> wrote ----
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 5:17 AM, oli_kester <oli_kester(a)zoho.com> wrote:
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24.
You may not be aware, but a similar project exists on github:
https://github.com/ahlstromcj/sequencer64
It may be good to contact the author and share ideas or collaborate?
10 Dec
10 Dec
3:45 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 6:50 AM, oli_kester <oli_kester(a)zoho.com> wrote:
Thanks Michael - I am aware. Did a separate and more
technical email on
the developers mailing lists specifically mentioning that project, and
reaching out to the developer.
Ah sorry, I did receive that but it ended up in gmail spam like most emails
from the LAU and LAD lists these days... Not sure why but gmail really
doesn't like these lists especially.
10:19 a.m.
On 10 Dec 2015 02:45, "michael noble" <looplog(a)gmail.com> wrote:
OT: That's what filters are for! These are far from the only lists I'm on
that have this problem in gmail. I filter all messages from these lists,
bypass the inbox to put them in their own folder, then tick the option to
never go to spam.
You suddenly realise you're not missing half of every conversation! ;-)
Best wishes,
Neil
Neil C Smith
Artist : Technologist : Adviser
http://neilcsmith.net
Ah sorry, I did receive that but it ended up in gmail
spam like most
emails from the LAU and LAD lists these days... Not sure why but
gmail
really doesn't like these lists especially.
9:40 a.m.
On 12/09/2015 09:17 PM, oli_kester wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of
seq24. Below is an excerpt from my project proposal - the list of
features I would like to implement -
Hi, a couple of years ago I did a little midi timing benchmark which
included seq24 and sadly it had pretty bad jitter.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071224212956/http://tapas.affenbande.org/w
ordpress/?page_id=56
even when patched to use a high priority.
The website has long gone down, but the other pages in the menu might
still have some valuable information since seq24 is from way back, too :
)
With the arrival of jack_midi this kind of benchmarking is probably
not as important anymore, but afaik seq24 still uses alsa-midi?
Flo
--
https://fps.io
9:51 a.m.
Florian Paul Schmidt <mista.tapas(a)gmx.net> writes:
Hi, a couple of years ago I did a little midi timing
benchmark which
included seq24 and sadly it had pretty bad jitter.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071224212956/http://tapas.affenbande.org/w
ordpress/?page_id=56
even when patched to use a high priority.
The website has long gone down, but the other pages in the menu might
still have some valuable information since seq24 is from way back, too :
)
With the arrival of jack_midi this kind of benchmarking is probably
not as important anymore, but afaik seq24 still uses alsa-midi?
The documentation for Non-Sequencer seems to say that it was written by
its author to address some inadequacies in Seq24, but when I tried it,
it had problems of its own.
It seems to have no quantize function at all (neither during or after
record), and I was unable to get notes to actually start on a beat.
Sometimes I still fire up Non-Sequencer just to try again and see if I
was missing something.
Between Seq24 and Non-Sequencer though, there are two programs
addressing a very similar need with a similar type of application, each
with its own unique critical bugs. It would be nice if someone could
fix one of them though, because the on-the-fly loop sequencer concept is
very nice and worth doing.
--
- Brent Busby + ===============================================
+ "With the rise of social networking
-- Keycorner -- + sites, computers are making people
-- Recording -- + easier to use every day."
----------------+ ===============================================
2:41 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:51 AM, Brent Busby <brent(a)keycorner.org> wrote:
Between Seq24 and Non-Sequencer though, there are two programs
addressing a very similar need with a similar type of application, each
with its own unique critical bugs. It would be nice if someone could
fix one of them though, because the on-the-fly loop sequencer concept is
very nice and worth doing.
and then there's always softwerk:
https://freesoftwaremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/softwerk-01.png
or rather, there isn't :(
2:51 p.m.
On 12/10/2015 08:41 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
and then there's always softwerk:
https://freesoftwaremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/softwerk-01.png
or rather, there isn't :(
Eagerly awaiting the next release... :)
Best,
dp
3:03 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 10/12/2015 14:51, Dave Phillips wrote:
On 12/10/2015 08:41 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
Looking at that screenshot (a bit naively as I never really had/tried
that kind of hardware) I wonder how hard it would be to clone that in
Pd... just wondering... Probably not *that* hard... just wondering.
Lorenzo.
and then there's always softwerk:
https://freesoftwaremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/softwerk-01.png
or rather, there isn't :(
Eagerly awaiting the next release... :)
Best,
dp
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3:06 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
Not THAT hard. I've written a couple of sequencers on Pd. And there are
several out there.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 10/12/2015 14:51, Dave Phillips wrote:
--
Louigi Verona
http://www.louigiverona.com/
On 12/10/2015 08:41 AM, Paul Davis wrote:
Looking at that screenshot (a bit naively as I never really had/tried that
kind of hardware) I wonder how hard it would be to clone that in Pd... just
wondering... Probably not *that* hard... just wondering.
Lorenzo.
and then there's always softwerk:
https://freesoftwaremusic.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/softwerk-01.png
or rather, there isn't :(
Eagerly awaiting the next release... :)
Best,
dp
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3:11 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Not THAT hard. I've written a couple of sequencers
on Pd. And there are
several out there.
It would be pretty/fairly hard. Softwerk has a huge amount of inter-lane
modulation/interaction. The pitches, duration, velocities and gating of any
number of lanes can be controlled by any other number of lanes. The gating
concept also requires (i think) a fairly novel way of dealing with time
that I think is hard to do in Pd. I could easily be wrong.
I suspect it would be the 80/20 or 90/10 rule ... easy to do the first
80-90% .. hard to get the whole thing. And Softwerk goes significantly
beyond what can be done with the Schaltwerk hardware that inspired it.
I never released it because it is still missing the one key feature that I
would want: the ability to sequence not just the internals of patterns, but
different patterns themselves.
3:46 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On 10/12/2015 15:11, Paul Davis wrote:
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com
<mailto:louigi.verona@gmail.com>> wrote:
Not THAT hard. I've written a couple of sequencers on Pd. And there
are several out there.
It would be pretty/fairly hard. Softwerk has a huge amount of inter-lane
modulation/interaction. The pitches, duration, velocities and gating of
any number of lanes can be controlled by any other number of lanes.
So... e.g. pattern two can be the velocities of notes programmed on
pattern one etc.?
The
gating concept also requires (i think) a fairly novel way of dealing
with time that I think is hard to do in Pd. I could easily be wrong.
If you have any pointers (or time to explain) I'd be curious to
understand how the gating works in this case.
I suspect it would be the 80/20 or 90/10 rule ... easy to do the first
80-90% .. hard to get the whole thing. And Softwerk goes significantly
beyond what can be done with the Schaltwerk hardware that inspired it.
That was my impression looking at the *apparently* simple interface in
the screenshot :)
Lorenzo.
4:01 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 10/12/2015 15:11, Paul Davis wrote:
yes.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com
<mailto:louigi.verona@gmail.com>> wrote:
Not THAT hard. I've written a couple of sequencers on Pd. And there
are several out there.
It would be pretty/fairly hard. Softwerk has a huge amount of inter-lane
modulation/interaction. The pitches, duration, velocities and gating of
any number of lanes can be controlled by any other number of lanes.
So... e.g. pattern two can be the velocities of notes programmed on
pattern one etc.?
The
i wish i could remember why i called it gating.
each sequence consists of a series of notes with a duration (which can be
fixed by the sequence or determined by 1 or more other sequences), but also
an interval between the notes. this is the "gate time". so if you set the
gate time to 16 and the note duration to 8, you get notes that sound for
1/2 of the step interval. but you can shorten the interval or increase it,
independently for each sequence. if you make the mistake of setting the
note duration > gate time, then you will challenge the polyphony of the
sound generator, because notes will remain on as others start up.
you can also make the gate time be determined by another sequence, in
essence creating a sequence with different intervals between notes.
gating concept also requires (i think) a fairly
novel way of dealing
with time that I think is hard to do in Pd. I could easily be wrong.
If you have any pointers (or time to explain) I'd be curious to understand
how the gating works in this case.
7:19 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
Ah, of course I spoke about the basic sequencer, not anything advanced. I
should try out the above-mentioned sequencer. I've seen it before, but
never used.
On Dec 10, 2015 4:02 PM, "Paul Davis" <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Lorenzo Sutton <lorenzofsutton(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On 10/12/2015 15:11, Paul Davis wrote:
yes.
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com
<mailto:louigi.verona@gmail.com>> wrote:
Not THAT hard. I've written a couple of sequencers on Pd. And there
are several out there.
It would be pretty/fairly hard. Softwerk has a huge amount of inter-lane
modulation/interaction. The pitches, duration, velocities and gating of
any number of lanes can be controlled by any other number of lanes.
So... e.g. pattern two can be the velocities of notes programmed on
pattern one etc.?
The
i wish i could remember why i called it gating.
each sequence consists of a series of notes with a duration (which can be
fixed by the sequence or determined by 1 or more other sequences), but also
an interval between the notes. this is the "gate time". so if you set the
gate time to 16 and the note duration to 8, you get notes that sound for
1/2 of the step interval. but you can shorten the interval or increase it,
independently for each sequence. if you make the mistake of setting the
note duration > gate time, then you will challenge the polyphony of the
sound generator, because notes will remain on as others start up.
you can also make the gate time be determined by another sequence, in
essence creating a sequence with different intervals between notes.
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
gating concept also requires (i think) a fairly
novel way of dealing
with time that I think is hard to do in Pd. I could easily be wrong.
If you have any pointers (or time to explain) I'd be curious to
understand how the gating works in this case.
8:31 p.m.
New subject: Softwek and step-sequencers [WAS]: Re: A Project To Upgrade seq24
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Ah, of course I spoke about the basic sequencer, not
anything advanced. I
should try out the above-mentioned sequencer. I've seen it before, but
never used.
hard to do, unfortunately.
11 Dec
11 Dec
12:29 a.m.
New subject: Polyrythm / euclidiean Sequencer?
Fitting in the current sequencer discussions: Lusting for a pyramid
hardware sequencer, but lacking the funds big time for forseable future,
I am wondering, wether I may by chance have missed a more rythm focused
sequencer for linux?
Something in the likes of the Polyrhythmus Max for Live addon, which
allows for more unconventional beats.
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/07/polyrhythmus-insanely-great-generator…
Have not found anything so far, but since I did not know about the
softwerk either, which not only seems to go after the Schaltwerk, but
also incorpaorate some of the Schrittmacher features, still one of my
favorite sequencers, hope has risen again.
Where are the secret repositories for the odd beats?
Cheers
Ede
12:47 a.m.
New subject: Polyrythm / euclidiean Sequencer?
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Ede Wolf <listac(a)nebelschwaden.de> wrote:
Where are the secret repositories for the odd beats?
I had done some work on the algorithm to generate euclidean beats, and play
them in steps - it never actually worked, so I never released it. I do love
the beats they generate though, minimal/techno stuff was my main exposure
to them. Fun music.
I hope to do lots of coding over the Christmas holidays, I'll try dig up
the old code and see how things go - no promises though! -Harry
--
http://www.openavproductions.com
1:07 a.m.
New subject: Polyrythm / euclidiean Sequencer?
Thanks! That does indeed sound way more promising than I've ever hoped -
whatever eventually comes around. But I'd still advise to give
preference to feasting than to coding :)
Am 11.12.2015 um 00:47 schrieb Harry van Haaren:
On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Ede Wolf
<listac(a)nebelschwaden.de
<mailto:listac@nebelschwaden.de>> wrote:
Where are the secret repositories for the odd beats?
I had done some work on the algorithm to generate euclidean beats, and
play them in steps - it never actually worked, so I never released it. I
do love the beats they generate though, minimal/techno stuff was my main
exposure to them. Fun music.
I hope to do lots of coding over the Christmas holidays, I'll try dig up
the old code and see how things go - no promises though! -Harry
--
http://www.openavproductions.com
10 Dec
10 Dec
11:27 a.m.
Hello,
On 09.12.2015 21:17, oli_kester wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul
of seq24. Below is an excerpt from my project proposal - the list
of features I would like to implement
it would be great if there was a zoom/scale for play and edit mode
too. to someone needing vision aids it currently is unusable.
hth,
Tee
5:01 p.m.
Hello Oliver,
On 12/09/2015 09:17 PM, oli_kester wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24.
Great! seq24 is my favorite software step sequencer and looking
critically at it wouldn't hurt I guess.
Below is an excerpt from my project proposal - the list of features I
would like to implement -
[quote]
<< Basic (simple changes that should be quick to address) >>
- Swap default on midi autoconnect to second value (add to config file)
Could you tell what you mean by this?
- Song / loop mode switch in main UI
That would be an improvement.
- Recent files list
Would be nice but personally I don't use this feature a lot.
- Move config file to .config folder in /home
Another improvement.
- Label keys correctly on loops past bank 1
There simply aren't enough single characters to label all possible 1024
loops so I'm curious how you plan to fix this. Also this means you have
to expand the Sequence toggle keys part in Options - Keyboard.
<< Medium (bug fixes, smaller new features) >>
- Don't take scene change inputs when renaming loops
Not sure what this means.
- With dual screens, remember window placement
I use my WM for this but for those that don't do that this could be a
nice addition.
- Darken Song mode (overall dark theme like Ardour?)
Personally I don't favor dark themes but if it would be easy to switch
between themes why not.
- Fix glitch with overlaps in loops
Which glitch?
- Session manager fixes
No opinion as I don't use session managers.
- Toggle loops in song mode
Isn't that what live mode is for? ;)
- Click time bar to position transport
If you're using just seq24 this could be useful.
- Draw and re-position snap in song mode should behave
identically
I don't see the extra value of this but then I mostly use seq24 in live
mode.
- Add one shot loops
That would be awesome!
- Decrease size of grid in song mode
Doesn't really bother me but I can imagine people don't like the way it
looks now.
- Add name of scene to the side when in song view
I've never had the need to use scene names but then again people who do
might find this a good addition.
- Add autosave function
Always nice, saved my ass a couple of times with Qtractor.
- Midi send if halfway through note (can be enabled /
disabled in preferences)
Could you explain this feature?
- Draw whole notes instead of cutting off early in
song mode loops
You mean in the Song Editor window or in the main window?
- Add configurable defaults for note length/ grid snap
Would be nice but I never really missed it.
- Add note stop/panic button
Ok :)
- Loop colouring
Yes, that would be a welcome addition!
- Fix bug where certain slots cannot contain loops
Fixing erratic behavior is always good. Is there a bug report of this issue?
<< Challenging (significant new features) >>
- Add Box select in song editor (REAPER style)
Isn't that what live mode is for? ;)
- Add redo in song mode
Never missed this feature. I don't recall having used the Undo funtion
either.
- Add Record in song mode
Isn't that what live mode is for? ;) No honestly, with things like this
you're blurring the difference between Live and Song mode. Why not
completely remove these modes?
- Allow splitting of song loops at mouse pointer
Not sure why you would want to do this.
- Zoom in song mode
That would be a great addition.
- Window title should just have the song name
Preferably not, this would break my WM setup.
- Fix jack sync bug/reset button
Yes, please! The current solution was a quick fix and this needs be
solved in a proper way. Torben Hohn once wrote a patch for this but he
couldn't find it back anymore :(
- Relative velocity altering (REAPER style)
That would be nice but all in all the whole concept of changing values
in seq24 needs an overhaul, this line drawing stuff just doesn't work
(at least, not for me).
- Add a double / half timing switch for live
performance
Not really sure what you mean here, or I simply never missed such a
feature ;)
Where I note “REAPER style”, I plan to source inspiration from the REAPER audio
workstation I use under Windows (http://reaper.fm/). The “Ardour” I mention is a Linux
audio workstation, and probably the most significant audio project on Linux
(http://ardour.org/).
[end quote]
What do you all think? It'll also be great to have a few people test it during
development.
in
This project will also be open source, and remain faithful to the ideals of the original
project.
If you have any feedback on my list of changes or any other suggestions, please do get in
touch!
Best,
Oliver
Some other suggestions:
- port it to Qt
- add JACK MIDI support
- make BPM counter reflect the current JACK sync BPM setting
- make the main window really resizable, they are now but the patterns
are a fixed size
Jeremy
5:53 p.m.
On 2015-12-09 21:17, oli_kester wrote:
Hi Seq24 users,
For my final year university project, I am taking on an overhaul of seq24. Below is an
excerpt from my project proposal - the list of features I would like to implement -
[quote]
(...)
WOW !!!! Oliver!!!!! I think it's a beautiful and generous way to use
your university time! IMHO, Seq24 is a delicious project that deserve
your motivation and energy. The long feature list you posted made me
bounce on my chair with anticipation!
Looking forward to see your work and possibly to test it, I wish you the
best of luck!
--
Set Sakrecoer
3060
days inactive
3070
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
38 comments
20 participants
participants (20)
-
Brent Busby -
Dave Phillips -
Diego Simak -
Ede Wolf -
Florian Paul Schmidt -
Harry van Haaren -
Hartmut Noack -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Len Ovens -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Louigi Verona -
michael noble -
Neil C Smith -
oli_kester -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf -
set -
Tilo Kremer -
Tim E. Real -
Will Godfrey