17 Dec
2012
17 Dec
'12
5:04 p.m.
Right now I did some research, since I bought my
AKG K 240 DF around 30 years ago.
It's discontinued.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,253,pid,253,nodeid,2,_langua…
I know that studios today have better headphones, but they are very
expensive and all I ever used in studios only one time need to clunk on
the floor and they are borked. The AKG has a (relatively ;) less good
sound quality, but anyway it's very good as a reference and the one I
own survived, other headphones I owned or used in studios get broken.
Are there still some durable headphones for studio usage? AFAIK for the
German Rundfunk they switched a long time ago from the AKG I own, to
those better once, that will not last very long.
Regards,
Ralf
17 Dec
17 Dec
7:51 p.m.
On 12/17/2012 06:04 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Right now I did some research, since I bought my
AKG K 240 DF around 30 years ago.
It's discontinued.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,253,pid,253,nodeid,2,_langua…
I know that studios today have better headphones, but they are very
expensive and all I ever used in studios only one time need to clunk on
the floor and they are borked. The AKG has a (relatively ;) less good
sound quality, but anyway it's very good as a reference and the one I
own survived, other headphones I owned or used in studios get broken.
Are there still some durable headphones for studio usage? AFAIK for the
German Rundfunk they switched a long time ago from the AKG I own, to
those better once, that will not last very long.
Sennheiser HD280? I don't know if they qualify as studio headphones, but
we've used them at my church for several years for monitoring live
performances and they've been very durable.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
8:38 p.m.
On 12/17/2012 05:04 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Right now I did some research, since I bought my
AKG K 240 DF around 30 years ago.
It's discontinued.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,253,pid,253,nodeid,2,_langua…
I know that studios today have better headphones, but they are very
expensive and all I ever used in studios only one time need to clunk on
the floor and they are borked. The AKG has a (relatively ;) less good
sound quality, but anyway it's very good as a reference and the one I
own survived, other headphones I owned or used in studios get broken.
Are there still some durable headphones for studio usage? AFAIK for the
German Rundfunk they switched a long time ago from the AKG I own, to
those better once, that will not last very long.
Regards,
Ralf
Hello Ralf,
I'm using this one:
http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/studio-and-…
And I'm happy with it. It's not semi-open though and it's ohmage is way
lower (250) so it's probably not the most adequate replacement.
Regards,
Jeremy
8:49 p.m.
This is the subject of probably 10% of the threads on /g/ :-)
I personally find the DT770 very disappointing. Their noise isolation
is superb, but they're one of the most colored closed cans in my
personal experience. HUGE midbass bump, no high end.
I'm not a fan of Sony overall, but the MDR-V6 is more neutral, cheaper
and better made. Amazon's been selling them for $50-- at that price,
they're a steal (I grabbed a few pairs myself).
BTW, If you don't need noise isolation, don't buy closed cans.
Monty
9:54 p.m.
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 14:49 -0500, Monty Montgomery wrote:
This is the subject of probably 10% of the threads on
/g/ :-)
What is /g/?
I personally find the DT770 very disappointing. Their
noise isolation
is superb, but they're one of the most colored closed cans in my
personal experience. HUGE midbass bump, no high end.
I'm not a fan of Sony overall, but the MDR-V6 is more neutral, cheaper
and better made. Amazon's been selling them for $50-- at that price,
they're a steal (I grabbed a few pairs myself).
BTW, If you don't need noise isolation, don't buy closed cans.
Yes, Bayer is known to sound better, in the sense of "it's closer to
bass sound of speakers", but less good as reference for audio
production. The time the AKG 240 DF go on sale, there was a competitor
from Bayer, but in the end the AKG became a reference for around 20
years, I guess 10 years ago the AKG was replaced too in most studios,
but it was used for a much longer time, than the Bayer headphones. I
wonder if they nowadays buy new headphones every month, at least the
German Rundfunk has got the money to do it. I don't have the money. Btw.
I don't know if later versions of the AKG are as durable as the version
I bought, when it go to sale.
Semi-open is what I prefer to open and closed. I only owned the
semi-opened AKG and several cheap opened headphones myself.
Regards,
Ralf
10:01 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralf Mardorf"
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
What is /g/?
http://4chan.org/g/
10:15 p.m.
Hi,
Semi-open is what I prefer to open and closed. I only
owned the
semi-opened AKG and several cheap opened headphones myself.
I personally own a Bayerdynamic DT-770 Pro and I'm very happy with it.
Of course you need to know the frequency-curve and mixing (studio)
should be done with more than one headphone (and speakers!) but for
live-mixing this thing is superb! And I never had a reliabilty-problem
with it.
If you're looking for a semi-closed one you can take a look at the
Beyerdynamic DT-880 Pro which is the semi-closed variant of the
DT-770. It's the most expensive in the series. The DT-990 Pro is the
"open back" variant and costs about the same as the 770.
Best regards,
Jannis
9:24 p.m.
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 20:38 +0100, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
Hello Ralf,
I'm using this one:
http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/studio-and-…
And I'm happy with it. It's not semi-open though and it's ohmage is way
lower (250) so it's probably not the most adequate replacement.
It should be semi-opened. However, I guess those expensive modern Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser, AKG etc. from the last 20 years until now, do all have
got a better sound quality and can replace my old AKG regarding to the
sound quality. It's not needed to replace it yet, but since it's very
old, perhaps in the future. I experienced those new headphones as very
fragile. It's used for the first time, 10 minutes old, it get out of the
hands of a guest, bumped just on the table and there's some odd noise
for some frequencies. I heart this in professional studios for Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser and at home I've got Quart HiFi headphones for guests,
all do sound bad for some frequencies, because of accidents. My AKG was
victim of children, had countless accidents and still is 100% ok.
However, Jeremy did your DT 770 pro and David, did your HD280 "go
flying" several times, without getting unwanted noise for some
frequencies? Durability for me is very important, since I don't have the
money to buy headphones again and again.
Thank you,
Ralf
9:49 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:24:30PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
It should be semi-opened. However, I guess those
expensive modern Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser, AKG etc. from the last 20 years until now, do all have
got a better sound quality and can replace my old AKG regarding to the
sound quality. It's not needed to replace it yet, but since it's very
old, perhaps in the future. I experienced those new headphones as very
fragile. It's used for the first time, 10 minutes old, it get out of the
hands of a guest, bumped just on the table and there's some odd noise
for some frequencies.
Get a DT100. Mine is now 35 years old, has seen some forms of
abuse you can't imagine, and it's still doing its job as if
nothing ever happened.
Or if you can afford it, get a DT48. Takes some getting used
to, but probably the best thing there is for recording.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
10:15 p.m.
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 20:49 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Thank you.
Get a DT100. Mine is now 35 years old, has seen some
forms of
abuse you can't imagine, and it's still doing its job as if
nothing ever happened.
:) I can imagine it ;). Unfortunately also a closed headphone.
Or if you can afford it, get a DT48. Takes some
getting used
to, but probably the best thing there is for recording.
It's hard to say how much I'm willing + able to pay, if I need a new
headphone. I'm willing to pay 300,-€, but most of the times I'm unable
to pay that much. I guess 300,-€ would be the upper limit I'm willing to
pay.
Regards,
Ralf
10:28 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:15:19PM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Could be hard to find a second hand DT48... It's the sort of
thing its users get to love to the point of taking it with
them when the time comes to study the grass from below, or
they give it to their grandson.
Ciao,
--
FA
A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
Or if you can
afford it, get a DT48. Takes some getting used
to, but probably the best thing there is for recording.
It's hard to say how much I'm willing + able to pay, if I need a new
headphone. I'm willing to pay 300,-€, but most of the times I'm unable
to pay that much. I guess 300,-€ would be the upper limit I'm willing to
pay. 
10:16 p.m.
I've had trouble with loud playing musicians wanting K-240 volumes
loud enough to overcome their amps, which they insist must be right
next to them. On the way in or out of a recording session they're
likely to set that amp down on the K-240s, or roll a chair over them.
So... K-55s (closed) and K-66s (open) became what musicians got
during tracking. I reserve the K-240s for myself as one compare
point during mixing.
Of course, all of those models are obsolete. But, I'd suggest that
the idea to have "good" and "loaner" models is still valid.
G'luck....
--
Kevin
10:45 p.m.
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 13:16 -0800, Kevin Cosgrove wrote:
I've had trouble with loud playing musicians
wanting K-240 volumes
loud enough to overcome their amps, which they insist must be right
next to them. On the way in or out of a recording session they're
likely to set that amp down on the K-240s, or roll a chair over them.
So... K-55s (closed) and K-66s (open) became what musicians got
during tracking. I reserve the K-240s for myself as one compare
point during mixing.
Of course, all of those models are obsolete. But, I'd suggest that
the idea to have "good" and "loaner" models is still valid.
G'luck....
I read and flagged all mails, but won't reply now to all mails, thank
you everybody.
My K 240 DF still is ok, it's just that I read that AKG won't produce it
any more.
I need it at home, a rental flat with neighbours ;).
During the day I sometimes can use monitors and to mix music I use two
pairs of speakers + headphones, but at night I can't use speakers and
even during the day I can't use monitors all the times.
Loudness of amps isn't an issue, crosstalk when singing into a
microphone isn't an issue either, so I prefer semi-open.
Regards,
Ralf
9:59 p.m.
On 17 December 2012 20:24, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
It should be semi-opened. However, I guess those
expensive modern Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser, AKG etc. from the last 20 years until now, do all have
got a better sound quality and can replace my old AKG regarding to the
sound quality.
My impression is that headphones haven't changed a great deal over the
last 20 years or so. Have they? Have I been missing out?
(I use Beyer DT250s, about a decade old, which I love 'cos they're so
comfy -- though the sound is pleasing rather than particularly
accurate)
Chris
10 p.m.
On 17 December 2012 20:58, Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> wrote:
My impression is that headphones haven't changed a
great deal over the
last 20 years or so. Have they? Have I been missing out?
(other than the little earplug ones, which I don't think existed at
any decent quality 20 years ago)
Chris
10:28 p.m.
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 20:58 +0000, Chris Cannam wrote:
On 17 December 2012 20:24, Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
I'm ambivalent, resp. I agree. The AKG is around 30 years old and
perhaps 10 years later there was a step forward and there might be no
big differences until today.
To enjoy music I always preferred Bayer, but the AKG IMO is better to
produce music. I can't pay for more than one headphone, so I bought the
AKG instead of a Bayer.
Regards,
Ralf
It should be semi-opened. However, I guess those
expensive modern Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser, AKG etc. from the last 20 years until now, do all have
got a better sound quality and can replace my old AKG regarding to the
sound quality.
My impression is that headphones haven't changed a great deal over the
last 20 years or so. Have they? Have I been missing out?
(I use Beyer DT250s, about a decade old, which I love 'cos they're so
comfy -- though the sound is pleasing rather than particularly
accurate)
10:23 p.m.
On 12/17/2012 09:24 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
However, Jeremy did your DT 770 pro and David, did
your HD280 "go
flying" several times, without getting unwanted noise for some
frequencies?
Yup. With a 2 year old, very curious kid around who sleeps next to my
home studio I do find them on the floor every now and then. And I've
dropped them myself on quite some occasions. These headphones are pretty
sturdy if you ask me.
Jeremy
18 Dec
18 Dec
12:55 p.m.
i found Beyer 770 cable to be sad,
plastic outer sheath has split in several places, then mechanical tugging was enough to
rip the weak earbud grade stranded conductors apart. the gold-plating came off the 3.5mm
TRS and causing a channel to go out, strain damage at the TRS to cable interface. also
uncoiled and tended to get tangled. ive replaced it a couple times, once with a RadioShack
"build your own conector" and once soldering a salvaged earbud cable
mid-conductor but that's ripped apart several times itself, theres just not a whole
lot to attach to on that earbud-conductor crap. as mentioned it is a humidity-building
"gun range" level isolation, and anything but flat
use KH series TRIO (Kenwood) purchased off ebay for 20 USD which are between 30 and 40
years old. very overbuilt, an inner, MDRv6 shaped leather-lined headphone's rigid
shell has a spring steel suspension system to another outer clamshell, which has a bit of
flex to it (bounces if you toss it on a floor) the cable is something you'd find on a
60s HOOVER vacuum and really shows the beyer's for an inexcusable joke. GRADO
1/4" <> 3.5mm adaptor is attached. more hjighend than the 770s, and of course
less bass. good enough , especially when driven off an Echo expresscard's
DAC/amplifier rather than the onboard. at 1/10th the price of the 770s and 10x the
durability, i am pleased. presumably other brands from the 70s made in japan or germany or
USA are of similar quality
1:56 p.m.
On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 11:55 +0000, cdr wrote:
i found Beyer 770 cable to be sad
Good point! It's important that the headphones can be maintained and
that ear pads and other spare parts aren't expensive.
IIRC I had to replace the cable and jack for my AKG several times (at
least one time) and I replaced the ear pads one time. The ear pads for
the AKG usually are expensive, I bought them for buying price, when I
worked for Brauner. We aren't friends any more and I'm not sure if
another friend can get such spare parts for buying price. I don't think
so, I guess today I need to pay the regular price.
Today it has worn rubber for the fitting shape of the head, but it still
fit well.
If the Bayer should ship with a 3.5 jack + 6.3 adapter, but I would like
the quality of the Bayer, I would replace the jack.
I guess I've never seen 3.5 jacks + 6.3 adapters on studio headphones, I
only know it from my Quart HiFi headphones and old Walkman headphones.
If they want provide 6.3 and 3.5 jacks, they IMO should ship with a 6.3
jack + a 3.5 adapter. However, a bad cable or jack can be replace.
I prefer cables that are on both sides. Later versions of my AKG feed
the cable just to one side of the headphone, I'm happy that my version
does it from both sides.
Btw. the AKG headphones easily can be opened and closed, there only is a
minor drawback. The screws have a covering, that can be removed, but you
need double-sided tape to mount the covering.
I suspect that all more expensive brandet headphones can be maintained,
but spare parts might be expensive.
Regards,
Ralf
7:16 a.m.
On 12/17/2012 10:24 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-12-17 at 20:38 +0100, Jeremy Jongepier
wrote:
I can't hear any extraneous noise on the HD280. It has been banged
around a lot. (It used to get tossed into the case that holds music
stands, cables and assorted junk.) The formerly-tightly coiled cable is
all stretched out.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
http://clanjones.org/david/
http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/
Hello Ralf,
I'm using this one:
http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/studio-and-…
And I'm happy with it. It's not semi-open though and it's ohmage is way
lower (250) so it's probably not the most adequate replacement.
It should be semi-opened. However, I guess those expensive modern Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser, AKG etc. from the last 20 years until now, do all have
got a better sound quality and can replace my old AKG regarding to the
sound quality. It's not needed to replace it yet, but since it's very
old, perhaps in the future. I experienced those new headphones as very
fragile. It's used for the first time, 10 minutes old, it get out of the
hands of a guest, bumped just on the table and there's some odd noise
for some frequencies. I heart this in professional studios for Bayer,
Sony, Sennheiser and at home I've got Quart HiFi headphones for guests,
all do sound bad for some frequencies, because of accidents. My AKG was
victim of children, had countless accidents and still is 100% ok.
However, Jeremy did your DT 770 pro and David, did your HD280 "go
flying" several times, without getting unwanted noise for some
frequencies? Durability for me is very important, since I don't have the
money to buy headphones again and again. 
17 Dec
17 Dec
10:04 p.m.
On 12/17/2012 05:04 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Right now I did some research, since I bought my
AKG K 240 DF around 30 years ago.
It's discontinued.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,253,pid,253,nodeid,2,_langua…
I know that studios today have better headphones, but they are very
expensive and all I ever used in studios only one time need to clunk on
the floor and they are borked. The AKG has a (relatively ;) less good
sound quality, but anyway it's very good as a reference and the one I
own survived, other headphones I owned or used in studios get broken.
Are there still some durable headphones for studio usage? AFAIK for the
German Rundfunk they switched a long time ago from the AKG I own, to
those better once, that will not last very long.
I got myself a pair of DT 990 Pro by Beyerdynamics. They are really
sturdily built. But then again, they are an open design and that might
not be suited for your usecase..
I really like them though. And by that I mean in the same sense as I
like my Yamaha HS80M monitors. They are pretty neutral. I guess you can
throw hundreds or thousands more at listening devices, but personally I
think I have hit exactly the sweet spot with these purchases between
quality and expenses..
Flo
Regards,
Ralf
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
Florian Paul Schmidt
http://fps.io
18 Dec
18 Dec
2:28 p.m.
Am 17.12.2012 17:04, schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
Right now I did some research, since I bought my
AKG K 240 DF around 30 years ago.
It's discontinued.
http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,253,pid,253,nodeid,2,_langua…
I know that studios today have better headphones, but they are very
expensive and all I ever used in studios only one time need to clunk on
the floor and they are borked. The AKG has a (relatively ;) less good
sound quality, but anyway it's very good as a reference and the one I
own survived, other headphones I owned or used in studios get broken.
Are there still some durable headphones for studio usage? AFAIK for the
German Rundfunk they switched a long time ago from the AKG I own, to
those better once, that will not last very long.
Regards,
Ralf
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
I might want to chime in here, but my recommendation does not match the
half-closed criteria nor being from an class a studio brand.
I recently discovered Pro Set 3 Headphones from Heil Sound. In fact Bob
Heil produces stuff since the 60s (Heil Talking Box etc.).
Being a ham radio engineer (in german Amateurfunker) and developer of
intelligible microphones and easy to wear ham radio headphones he now
developed headphones for live reinforcement and the studio.
These are closed headphones with an impedance of 32 Ohms, they are
sturdy, they sit tight but are comfortable to wear as this was his
intention.
They are neutral with a lot of low end meaning they can produce very
deep frequencies.
For a price of about $110 or 110 Euro (plus shipment) your wallet will
live and your ears might be happy.
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/microphone-accessories/pro-set-3
Dealers throughout the world:
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/dealers/online-dealers
I got them in Germany through a ham radio company called Wimo.
Ham radio shops sell these, too:
http://heilsound.com/amateur/dealers/index.php
I am very fond of them, your experience may be a different one.
Just my 2 cents.
God bless, Marius
4294
days inactive
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
22 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
cdr -
Chris Cannam -
david -
Florian Paul Schmidt -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jannis Achstetter -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Marius Janßen -
Monty Montgomery -
Ralf Mardorf -
SxDx