15 Mar
2005
15 Mar
'05
5:44 p.m.
Hi,
I've just made the first alpha release of my DVD-Audio authoring
application. It's available at:
http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net
The program is currently limited to 2-channel 16-bit audio, but all
DVD-Audio samplerates are supported (44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz,
176.4KHz and 192KHz).
A simple "how-to" is available here, as well as documentation about
DVD-Audio is also available on the above site.
Any feedback or questions welcome - there is a dvd-audio-devel mailing
list linked from the above site, or you can email me privately.
Dave.
15 Mar
15 Mar
6:12 p.m.
Dave Chapman wrote:
I've just made the first alpha release of my
DVD-Audio authoring
application. It's available at:
http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net
The program is currently limited to 2-channel 16-bit audio, but all
DVD-Audio samplerates are supported (44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz,
176.4KHz and 192KHz).
A simple "how-to" is available here, as well as documentation about
DVD-Audio is also available on the above site.
Any feedback or questions welcome - there is a dvd-audio-devel mailing
list linked from the above site, or you can email me privately.
Hey, how difficult do you think it would be to build a GUI around this?
I have a Sourceforge project for DVD authoring called Polidori (based
on dvdauthor) that has kinda floundered but maybe this will be the thing
to kick it back into gear. The building of the DVD image is already in
the project, it's mainly a matter of building the audio portion using
your tool instead of using dvdauthor.
-- Brett
6:32 p.m.
Brett McCoy wrote:
Hey, how difficult do you think it would be to build a
GUI around this?
I have a Sourceforge project for DVD authoring called Polidori (based
on dvdauthor) that has kinda floundered but maybe this will be the thing
to kick it back into gear. The building of the DVD image is already in
the project, it's mainly a matter of building the audio portion using
your tool instead of using dvdauthor.
It shouldn't be difficult at all. At the moment, I am only
concentrating on the audio-only parts of the DVD-Audio standard. So the
GUI simply needs to give the user a way of selecting WAV files, and
organising them into up to 9 "groups", each of up to 99 tracks (but
dvda-author currently only supports a single group).
My plan is to write a simple GUI version of dvda-author (sharing the
same code as the command-line version) using the cross-platform
wxWindows toolkit - so Mac and Windows users could also use it.
However, once I start to investigate the video-oriented parts of the
DVD-Audio standard, and the ability to link video titlesets (in the
VIDEO_TS directory) from the Audio Manager (AMG - in the AUDIO_TS
directory), then a more complicated and video-oriented GUI would be needed.
So any help in that direction would be very useful.
Dave.
6:42 p.m.
Dave Chapman wrote:
It shouldn't be difficult at all. At the moment,
I am only
concentrating on the audio-only parts of the DVD-Audio standard. So the
GUI simply needs to give the user a way of selecting WAV files, and
organising them into up to 9 "groups", each of up to 99 tracks (but
dvda-author currently only supports a single group).
My plan is to write a simple GUI version of dvda-author (sharing the
same code as the command-line version) using the cross-platform
wxWindows toolkit - so Mac and Windows users could also use it.
However, once I start to investigate the video-oriented parts of the
DVD-Audio standard, and the ability to link video titlesets (in the
VIDEO_TS directory) from the Audio Manager (AMG - in the AUDIO_TS
directory), then a more complicated and video-oriented GUI would be needed.
So any help in that direction would be very useful.
OK, I've joined your list. We can discuss further on there.
-- Brett
6:59 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 22:28 +0000, Dave Chapman wrote:
My plan is to write a simple GUI version of
dvda-author (sharing the
same code as the command-line version) using the cross-platform
wxWindows toolkit - so Mac and Windows users could also use it.
Using a cross platform toolkit often guarantees your app will look like
crap on every platform. For example, here's Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially the fonts.
Lee
7:26 p.m.
Using a cross platform toolkit often guarantees your
app
will look like crap on every platform. For example, here's
Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially
the fonts.
I'm currently reading a lot about usability issues; this one
is one of them.
The user may expect all apps of his platform to behave the
same.
But how to solve this? Even as we're on Linux and we have lots
of choices within one system?
On Win or Mac the OS always looks the same. You demand that
every cross platform application should use the toolkit of
the target platforms. A good idea. But this needs to make
many many bindings for an GUI application - lots of work only
for the reason to make it behave as the user expects.
This also means: if anyone does a Linux application, he should
enable his application for all GUI toolkits currently known
on Linux. We all know that this causes lots of additional
work.
So, any recommendation for (not only) the audacity project?
Best regards
ce
8:27 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 00:24 +0100, Christoph Eckert wrote:
The user may expect all apps of his platform to behave
the
same.
But how to solve this? Even as we're on Linux and we have lots
of choices within one system?
No, it's not that bad. Users just don't expect an app to be needlessly
ugly. And in 2005 there's no excuse to have ugly pixellated fonts.
For example I use Gnome but qjackctl looks fine on my desktop, because
it's a good looking app even though the toolkit is different.
Lee
8:49 p.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
No, it's not that bad. Users just don't
expect an app to be needlessly
ugly. And in 2005 there's no excuse to have ugly pixellated fonts.
For example I use Gnome but qjackctl looks fine on my desktop, because
it's a good looking app even though the toolkit is different.
I think Audacity is using gtk+ (version 1), or whatever toolkit that
uses gtk+ underneath.
FWIW, fltk, also cross-platform, uses anti-aliased fonts where possible
and looks pretty nice on all of the platforms I've used it on.
-- Brett
16 Mar
16 Mar
5:06 a.m.
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 07:56:44 -0500, Them wrote:
Lee Revell wrote:
Audacity uses wxWindows, wxWindows can, in turn use GTK.
- Steve
No, it's not that bad. Users just don't
expect an app to be needlessly
ugly. And in 2005 there's no excuse to have ugly pixellated fonts.
For example I use Gnome but qjackctl looks fine on my desktop, because
it's a good looking app even though the toolkit is different.
I think Audacity is using gtk+ (version 1), or whatever toolkit that
uses gtk+ underneath. 
4:49 a.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
On Win or Mac the OS always looks the same. You demand
that
every cross platform application should use the toolkit of
the target platforms. A good idea. But this needs to make
many many bindings for an GUI application - lots of work only
for the reason to make it behave as the user expects.
"only for the reason to make it behave as the user expects" ?
Software should always behave as the user expects.
Cheers,
Andreas
2:18 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 09:53 +0100, Andreas Kuckartz wrote:
Christoph Eckert wrote:
Yes, thank you. Many people, myself included, consider it a usability
BUG if software does not behave as the user expects. Unless there is a
good reason of course. Programmer laziness is not a good reason.
Lee
On Win or Mac the OS always looks the same. You
demand that
every cross platform application should use the toolkit of
the target platforms. A good idea. But this needs to make
many many bindings for an GUI application - lots of work only
for the reason to make it behave as the user expects.
"only for the reason to make it behave as the user expects" ?
Software should always behave as the user expects.
3:09 p.m.
Programmer laziness is not a good reason.
well, but if I use software someone has submitted as free
software I'm not in the position to complain about anything.
The programmer will answer "Give the code!" with reason - and
as I cannot code, I have to shut up ;-) .
Best regards
ce
4:37 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
it depends - is the programmer writing the software for his/herself, or
for wider use? if the latter, then why aren't you in a position to
complain? of course, the programmer can tell you to get ****ed, but
there is nothing worse than programmers chucking code out there that is
solipsistic ...
Programmer
laziness is not a good reason.
well, but if I use software someone has submitted as free
software I'm not in the position to complain about anything.
The programmer will answer "Give the code!"
with reason - and
as I cannot code, I have to shut up ;-) .
what kind of programmer would say that?
your response should be:
"but *you're* the programmer, you give *me* the code, and i'll give
*you* the feedback".
just remember - coders/programmers aren't the only ones who have
something to contribute ...
shayne
17 Mar
17 Mar
4:18 a.m.
Last Wednesday 16 March 2005 20:55, Christoph Eckert was like:
Unfortunately, even if you beg for feedback,
you'll get almost
no feedback at all.
You can generally judge the quality of your questions by the quality of the
responses you get. Beggars tend to make people feel uncomfortable.
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk
16 Mar
16 Mar
5:21 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 08:07:14 +0100, Christoph Eckert wrote:
*sigh* one of this things that makes open source development hard is this
attitude, developers are absolutly the worst testers possible and in some
cases bug (and especially usability) reports are very important.
Course, you cant always expect a polite response, and I wont promise to
/do/ anything about it, but it really is helpful :)
Programmer laziness is not a good reason.
well, but if I use software someone has submitted as free
software I'm not in the position to complain about anything. The programmer will answer "Give the code!"
with reason - and
as I cannot code, I have to shut up ;-) .
There are plenty of tasks in the free software world that are at least as
hard as programming.
- Steve
17 Mar
17 Mar
4:38 a.m.
Last Wednesday 16 March 2005 21:21, Steve Harris was like:
Course, you cant always expect a polite response, and
I wont promise to
/do/ anything about it, but it really is helpful :)
> The programmer will answer "Give the code!" with reason - and
> as I cannot code, I have to shut up ;-) .
No, you don't always get a positive response when you try to tell someone
there's a problem with their code. Sometimes it's quite difficult to get the
balance between being sensitive to their needs and not letting it get to you.
Sometimes you just get people at the wrong moment, getting flamed for trying
to be helpful is really not the most encouraging experience - a lesser person
might have already defenestrated their computer and then thrown themselves
out after. To err is human ... and all that. :-]
Don't forget to breathe!
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk
16 Mar
16 Mar
3 p.m.
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 18:24, Christoph Eckert wrote:
This also means: if anyone does a Linux application,
he should
enable his application for all GUI toolkits currently known
on Linux. We all know that this causes lots of additional
work.
No, I think just using one of the two most popular toolkits (Gtk or
Qt) is enough. Both of those have Windows bindings and at least Qt
has a native (non-X) Mac binding as well. And since they receive the
most developer focus of the various toolkits, they set an
appearance/usability standard that other toolkits (like wx, fltk,
motif, tk, etc.) often can't match, even when (like wx) they use Gtk
as a back end on Linux hosts. I suspect an Audacity built against a
more recent wxWidgets would look nicer, though.
In this case, Lee is really talking about the lack of anti-aliasing on
the fonts, though I could easily imagine other GNOME or KDE users
complaining that these apps that use less common toolkits don't abide
by their choice of desktop theme.
Anyway, at least wx-based apps aren't openly modern-desktop-hostile
like, say, cinelerra or snd.
Rob
3:16 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 13:58 -0500, Rob wrote:
In this case, Lee is really talking about the lack of
anti-aliasing on
the fonts, though I could easily imagine other GNOME or KDE users
complaining that these apps that use less common toolkits don't abide
by their choice of desktop theme.
Really my point could be reduced to "gtk 1.x is ugly!" ;-)
Does anyone know if there's a gtk-2.x binding for the wx toolkit?
Lee
3:22 p.m.
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 14:16, Lee Revell wrote:
Does anyone know if there's a gtk-2.x binding for
the wx toolkit?
Apparently so, since "ldd /usr/bin/audacity" on my Mandrake 10.1
laptop lists a bunch of libgtk-x11-2.0 and related stuff. It seems
to be linked against wx 2.5. And the fonts are antialiased, if
nothing else.
Rob
3:30 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 14:22 -0500, Rob wrote:
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 14:16, Lee Revell wrote:
Hmm, I'll try to build it again. I had no luck on 2 different Debian
systems.
Lee
Does anyone know if there's a gtk-2.x binding
for the wx toolkit?
Apparently so, since "ldd /usr/bin/audacity" on my Mandrake 10.1
laptop lists a bunch of libgtk-x11-2.0 and related stuff. It seems
to be linked against wx 2.5. And the fonts are antialiased, if
nothing else. 
6:01 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: ANN: DVD-Audio authoring tool
Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com>om>, on Wed Mar 16, 2005 [02:30:31 PM] said:
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 14:22 -0500, Rob wrote:
Hi;
Just to add a datapoint, audacity on my Gentoo box is using
wxGTK-2, and the fonts are smooth and it uses my gtk-2 theme. Also,
I think wxWindows is now called wxWidgets ;)
Paul
set(a)pobox.com
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 14:16, Lee Revell
wrote:
Hmm, I'll try to build it again. I had no luck on 2 different Debian
systems.
Lee
Does anyone know if there's a gtk-2.x binding
for the wx toolkit?
Apparently so, since "ldd /usr/bin/audacity" on my Mandrake 10.1
laptop lists a bunch of libgtk-x11-2.0 and related stuff. It seems
to be linked against wx 2.5. And the fonts are antialiased, if
nothing else. 
6:10 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] GUI toolkit moaning -- (was DVD-Audio authoring tool)
Lee Revell wrote on Wed, 16-Mar-2005:
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 13:58 -0500, Rob wrote:
Absolutely. Not all distributions have decided its "stable" enough,
but I wouldn't go back to a gtk1-linked wx for anything. They
coexist peacefully together so the distros have no excuse.
Just configure wxGTK with the --enable-gtk2 option.
jlc
In this case, Lee is really talking about the
lack of anti-aliasing on
the fonts, though I could easily imagine other GNOME or KDE users
complaining that these apps that use less common toolkits don't abide
by their choice of desktop theme.
Really my point could be reduced to "gtk 1.x is ugly!" ;-)
Does anyone know if there's a gtk-2.x binding for the wx toolkit? 
6:27 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 01:58:25PM -0500, Rob wrote:
Anyway, at least wx-based apps aren't openly
modern-desktop-hostile
like, say, cinelerra or snd.
whats wrong with Snd? You know you can build it to use Gtk2 now
as well as motif? I'm a Gtk advocate, and afaik Snd is pretty much
the only audio editor which uses Gtk2. Its a real shame to see otherwise
excellent editors like Rezound not reach their full potential because
of their choice of ugly widget toolkits.
For me personally, I have yet to see a crossplatfrom widget tookit be
used really successfully - they just look odd, sometimes for subtle reasons.
(Although i must say that XUL comes close, despite its speed, and that
only because of the genius who made the Mozilla Modern theme.)
--
Tim Orford
8:13 p.m.
On Wednesday 16 March 2005 17:27, Tim Orford wrote:
On Wed, Mar 16, 2005 at 01:58:25PM -0500, Rob wrote:
Nope, I didn't know that, as I've avoided it since the last time I
fired it up and saw the awfulness of Motif (and its page on CCRMA has
no screenshots or mention of Gtk2.) I take it all back! (well, the
Snd part...)
Rob
Anyway, at least wx-based apps aren't openly
modern-desktop-hostile like, say, cinelerra or snd.
whats wrong with Snd? You know
you can build it to use Gtk2 now
as well as motif? I'm a Gtk advocate, and afaik Snd is pretty much 
15 Mar
15 Mar
7:36 p.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
Using a cross platform toolkit often guarantees your
app will look like
crap on every platform.
I don't think that's neccesarily so...
For example, here's Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially the fonts.
Well mine is not all that different, but at least the menu font is un-ugly:
http://atte.dk/audacity_atte.png
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://www.atte.dk
8:09 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-03-16 at 00:36 +0100, Atte André Jensen wrote:
Nope, the fonts are still pixellated. It's just less obnoxious because
yours is smaller.
Anyway I suspect building against a newer wxgtk package would help.
There's a wx-gtk 2.4 and 2.5 available on my distro, but Audacity would
not compile against the newer one.
Lee
For example,
here's Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially the fonts.
Well mine is not all that different, but at least the menu font is un-ugly:
http://atte.dk/audacity_atte.png
16 Mar
16 Mar
3:22 a.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
Nope, the fonts are still pixellated. It's just
less obnoxious because
yours is smaller.
When you say pixillated does is mean not-anti-aliased?
--
peace, love & harmony
Atte
http://www.atte.dk
15 Mar
15 Mar
8:10 p.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
Using a cross platform toolkit often guarantees your
app will look like
crap on every platform. For example, here's Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially the fonts.
The Polidori application I mentioned is a Gnome application and targeted
for Linux only.
21 Mar
21 Mar
3:57 p.m.
On Tuesday 15 Mar 2005 23:59, Lee Revell wrote:
On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 22:28 +0000, Dave Chapman
wrote:
I don't know, perhaps it's just me. I have yet to see an antialiased font
(atleast in Linux) that I liked. What you refer to as horrible is extremely
readable in my view... (a little big though)
Ofcourse this has nothing to do with cross platform toolkits, I'd agree that
many of them are poorly integrated with the underlying systems.
Regards,
Robert
--
http://spamatica.se/musicsite/
My plan is to write a simple GUI version of
dvda-author (sharing the
same code as the command-line version) using the cross-platform
wxWindows toolkit - so Mac and Windows users could also use it.
Using a cross platform toolkit often guarantees your app will look like
crap on every platform. For example, here's Audacity on my system:
http://www.alsa-project.org/~rlrevell/audacity.png
It looks horrible compared to my Gnome apps. Especially the fonts. 
2:41 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-15 at 21:41 +0000, Dave Chapman wrote:
I've just made the first alpha release of my DVD-Audio authoring
application. It's available at:
http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net
Cool!
Don't forget to register the project (and all subsequent updates) on
Freshmeat, for increased visibility.
--
Florin Andrei
http://florin.myip.org/
7189
days inactive
7195
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
32 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
Andreas Kuckartz -
Atte André Jensen -
Brett McCoy -
Christoph Eckert -
Dave Chapman -
Florin Andrei -
Jesse Chappell -
Lee Revell -
Paul -
Rob -
Robert Jonsson -
Shayne O'Connor -
Steve Harris -
Them
-
tim hall -
Tim Orford