8 Mar
2004
8 Mar
'04
3:10 p.m.
I would simply prefer to be able to hit 96K. I definitely need an external
A/D/D/A unit for sound quality reasons. I can probably use external mic
pre-amps. I have been considering using a Presonus DIGImaxLt with a RME
Hammerfall 9652 but I think it ends up being cheaper to get an outboard box
with balanced ins and outs and throwing some kind of 8 channel mic pre in
front of it, unless there was a less expensive ALSA compatible option that
had 8 mic pres and 8 outs.
Matthew Polashek
Associate Editor, Silver Burdett Ginn - Music
Scott Foresman/Pearson Education
299 Jefferson Road
Parsippany, NJ 07054-0480
office: 973.739.8709
fax: 973.739.8098
Matthew.Polashek(a)scottforesman.com
----------
From: Mark Knecht
Reply To: A list for linux audio users
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2004 1:45 PM
To: A list for linux audio users
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Polashek, Matthew wrote:
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I am operating with 2 main scenarios in mind. I
am a jazz musician so I
would like to be able to record live shows and mix PA and Monitors for a
quartet so that's about 8 in and 6 out. I need fully balanced inputs to
prevent hum on live gigs. The second scenario is using the rig for my
recording studio. (a work that is still in progress) I would need
multiple
inputs and outputs here as well.
Matthew Polashek
Associate Editor, Silver Burdett Ginn - Music
Scott Foresman/Pearson Education
299 Jefferson Road
Parsippany, NJ 07054-0480
office: 973.739.8709
fax: 973.739.8098
Matthew.Polashek(a)scottforesman.com
Up to 44.1/48K? Or do you *require* 96K or 192K?
In all case I would recommend an external A/D/D/A unit. I see the price
going up...
- Mark
8 Mar
8 Mar
3:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Polashek, Matthew wrote:
I would simply prefer to be able to hit 96K. I
definitely need an external
A/D/D/A unit for sound quality reasons. I can probably use external mic
pre-amps. I have been considering using a Presonus DIGImaxLt with a RME
Hammerfall 9652 but I think it ends up being cheaper to get an outboard box
with balanced ins and outs and throwing some kind of 8 channel mic pre in
front of it, unless there was a less expensive ALSA compatible option that
had 8 mic pres and 8 outs.
OK. Well, 8-10 inputs of 96K A/D is going to cost you, but I'd guess
your best bet under Linux is probably an RME card of some type, with one
of their external 96KHz D/As.
Look into the RME HDSP line. The low end of what might work for you
would be the HDSP MultiFace. I think the drivers for that work pretty well.
Higher end I'd look at maybe a Hammerfall Light (Digi9636) With an ADI-8
Pro maybe. Good sound. Please double check that the ADI-8 Pro stills
supports the full 8 channels at 96KHz. It has enough ADAT interfaces to
do this but I'm finding the web page lacking on this fact.
You'd certainly have more choices sticking with 44.1/48K for lower cost
converters, but you sound interested in 96K so this limits your options
with RME cards anyway.
Don't get the stand alone HDSP9652 or HDSP9636 until you make sure the
Linux drivers will do what you need.
Good luck,
Mark
4:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 11:29:58 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Higher end I'd look at maybe a Hammerfall Light
(Digi9636) With an ADI-8
Pro maybe. Good sound. Please double check that the ADI-8 Pro stills
supports the full 8 channels at 96KHz. It has enough ADAT interfaces to
do this but I'm finding the web page lacking on this fact.
FWIW I'd go with a 96k capable card, eg. hammerfall light, and 48k
converters for now and upgrade to 96k later when the price comes down.
With decent 48k converters I've never had any shortage of high-end,
especially for live recordings.
- Steve
5:30 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Steve Harris wrote:
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 11:29:58 -0800, Mark Knecht
wrote:
I use my Hammerfall Light with an Alesis AI-3. It works very well,
although I think there are less expensive 8/8 converters out there now.
You have the same card Steve? What converters are you using?
Higher end I'd look at maybe a Hammerfall
Light (Digi9636) With an ADI-8
Pro maybe. Good sound. Please double check that the ADI-8 Pro stills
supports the full 8 channels at 96KHz. It has enough ADAT interfaces to
do this but I'm finding the web page lacking on this fact.
FWIW I'd go with a 96k capable card, eg. hammerfall light, and 48k
converters for now and upgrade to 96k later when the price comes down.
With decent 48k converters I've never had any shortage of high-end,
especially for live recordings.
I agree, but my new Pro Tools stuff jsut sounds a bit smoother, warmer,
more full when operating in 96K mode. Better clocking, for sure, but I
assume the extra samples can't hurt...
9 Mar
9 Mar
5:30 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 01:25:39 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
I'm using the converters in my desk (01v).
Probably not. You might find that you get worse results by buying bottom
of the range 96k converters, v's mid range 48k converters (the quaility of
the filters and so on is is probably important).
I wouldn't be supprised if a some of the difference between the Pro Tools
converters and the Alesis ones was in the quality of the analogue stuff.
- Steve
FWIW I'd go
with a 96k capable card, eg. hammerfall light, and 48k
converters for now and upgrade to 96k later when the price comes down.
I use my Hammerfall Light with an Alesis AI-3. It works very well,
although I think there are less expensive 8/8 converters out there now.
You have the same card Steve? What converters are you using? With decent 48k
converters I've never had any shortage of high-end,
especially for live recordings.
I agree, but my new Pro Tools stuff jsut sounds a bit smoother, warmer,
more full when operating in 96K mode. Better clocking, for sure, but I
assume the extra samples can't hurt... 
8 Mar
8 Mar
5:42 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 11:29:58AM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Polashek, Matthew wrote:
The Multiface is 96K but I think is limited to 8 channels, whereas
the Digiface does 24 @ 48K, and I presume 12 @ 96K, if you bring your own
convertors.
I would simply prefer to be able to hit 96K. [...]
OK. Well, 8-10 inputs of 96K A/D is going to cost you, but I'd guess
your best bet under Linux is probably an RME card of some type, with one
of their external 96KHz D/As.
Look into the RME HDSP line. The low end of what might work for you
would be the HDSP MultiFace. I think the drivers for that work pretty well.
Higher end I'd look at maybe a Hammerfall Light
(Digi9636) With an ADI-8
Pro maybe. Good sound. Please double check that the ADI-8 Pro stills
supports the full 8 channels at 96KHz. It has enough ADAT interfaces to
do this but I'm finding the web page lacking on this fact.
IIRC the ADI-8 Pro runs at 48K, although, yes, the web page seems
not mention this (I think I read the manual once); to go at 96K you
need the Double Speed ADI-8DS:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi8ds.htm
This uses two ADAT cables each sending 4 channels at 96K. Neither of
these units are cheap though, and do have lots of other features you
may not need such as TDIF.
Good hunting!
Malcolm Smith
5:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Mr. Spock wrote:
IIRC the ADI-8 Pro runs at 48K, although, yes, the web page seems
not mention this (I think I read the manual once); to go at 96K you
need the Double Speed ADI-8DS:
That looks like what I was thinking of. Thanks.
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi8ds.htm
This uses two ADAT cables each sending 4 channels at 96K. Neither of
these units are cheap though, and do have lots of other features you
may not need such as TDIF.
Nothing made by RME is cheap, is it? ;-)
None the less, if someone was going to put their money into a company
that has supported the Linux development community, it seems to me that
RME is one of the few real choices people have.
Cheers,
Mark
10 Mar
10 Mar
7:30 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:39:52PM +0000, Mr. Spock wrote:
The Multiface is 96K but I think is limited to 8
channels, whereas
the Digiface does 24 @ 48K, and I presume 12 @ 96K, if you bring your own
convertors.
Oops, just for the record, maybe I was mistaken about the Multiface,
after re-reading this:
HOWTO: Using the Hammerfall HDSP on Linux
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 by Peter Todd
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7024
"The Multiface offers eight channels of analog I/O and digital SPDIF,
as well as ADAT in and out for a total of 20 channels of 24bit/96kHz
audio. The Digiface offers three ADAT in and outs and SPDIF for a
total of 26 channels."
So maybe the Multiface can do eight 24/96 channels using the internal
A/D+D/A *plus* four more 24/96 channels using the ADAT ports to/from
a double-speed external convertor such as the ADI-8DS:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/adi/adi8ds.htm
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/multifa.htm
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/digifa.htm
However, there is only one ADAT in and out on the Mutliface, unlike
the Digiface's three ins and three outs, so I'm confused as to how
Peter came up with 20 x 24/96.
Hmm?
Malc
7:45 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Mr. Spock wrote on Wed, 10-Mar-2004:
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:39:52PM +0000, Mr. Spock
wrote:
This is correct. The multiface can do 8 i/o at 96k with the internal
converters plus an additional 4 (via smux adat) at 96k. At lower
sample rates it will do 8 channels on the ADAT ports. The SPDIF adds
another 2 channels of digital i/o (not sure if that goes up
to 96k or not... i guess it does by the advertising).
jlc
The Multiface is 96K but I think is limited to 8
channels, whereas
the Digiface does 24 @ 48K, and I presume 12 @ 96K, if you bring your own
convertors.
Oops, just for the record, maybe I was mistaken about the Multiface,
after re-reading this:
HOWTO: Using the Hammerfall HDSP on Linux
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 by Peter Todd
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7024
"The Multiface offers eight channels of analog I/O and digital SPDIF,
as well as ADAT in and out for a total of 20 channels of 24bit/96kHz
audio. The Digiface offers three ADAT in and outs and SPDIF for a
total of 26 channels."
So maybe the Multiface can do eight 24/96 channels using the internal
A/D+D/A *plus* four more 24/96 channels using the ADAT ports to/from
a double-speed external convertor such as the ADI-8DS:
8:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Jesse Chappell wrote:
Mr. Spock wrote on Wed, 10-Mar-2004:
Isn't 8+4+2 == 14 channels at 96K?
Vs. 8+8+2 == 18 channels at 96K?
You then *maybe* get 2 more outputs using the headphone output if it is
addressed seprately, but there's no corresponding input, so at 96K it
looks like 16 out, 14 in with the right converters hooked to ADAT.
My DigiDesign 002 Rack is pretty much a duplicate of the Multiface
except it doesn't support the ADAT interface at 96K at all, to I only
get 10 in, 10 out. My headphoens are always a copy of the Master Output.
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:39:52PM +0000, Mr.
Spock wrote:
This is correct. The multiface can do 8 i/o at 96k with the internal
converters plus an additional 4 (via smux adat) at 96k. At lower
sample rates it will do 8 channels on the ADAT ports. The SPDIF adds
another 2 channels of digital i/o (not sure if that goes up
to 96k or not... i guess it does by the advertising).
jlc
The Multiface is 96K but I think is limited to 8
channels, whereas
the Digiface does 24 @ 48K, and I presume 12 @ 96K, if you bring your own
convertors.
Oops, just for the record, maybe I was mistaken about the Multiface,
after re-reading this:
HOWTO: Using the Hammerfall HDSP on Linux
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 by Peter Todd
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7024
"The Multiface offers eight channels of analog I/O and digital SPDIF,
as well as ADAT in and out for a total of 20 channels of 24bit/96kHz
audio. The Digiface offers three ADAT in and outs and SPDIF for a
total of 26 channels."
So maybe the Multiface can do eight 24/96 channels using the internal
A/D+D/A *plus* four more 24/96 channels using the ADAT ports to/from
a double-speed external convertor such as the ADI-8DS:
8:29 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 04:00:21PM -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Jesse Chappell wrote:
I didn't think S/PDIF was capable of 96K, but it would be nice :)
At least I'd be able to get/send 96K in stereo to/from other gear,
to see what I'm missing in 48K Land.
Mr. Spock wrote on Wed, 10-Mar-2004:
Isn't 8+4+2 == 14 channels at 96K?
Oops, just for the record, maybe I was mistaken
about the Multiface,
after re-reading this:
HOWTO: Using the Hammerfall HDSP on Linux
Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 by Peter Todd
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7024
"The Multiface offers eight channels of analog I/O and digital SPDIF,
as well as ADAT in and out for a total of 20 channels of 24bit/96kHz
audio. The Digiface offers three ADAT in and outs and SPDIF for a
total of 26 channels."
So maybe the Multiface can do eight 24/96 channels using the internal
A/D+D/A *plus* four more 24/96 channels using the ADAT ports to/from
a double-speed external convertor such as the ADI-8DS:
This is correct. The multiface can do 8 i/o at 96k with the internal
converters plus an additional 4 (via smux adat) at 96k. At lower
sample rates it will do 8 channels on the ADAT ports. The SPDIF adds
another 2 channels of digital i/o (not sure if that goes up
to 96k or not... i guess it does by the advertising).
jlc
Vs. 8+8+2 == 18 channels at 96K?
??? If you're meaning the Digiface here, wouldn't it also be
8+4+2 == 14, because for every 8 channels at 96K, you need a
*pair* of ADAT i/o; the Digi only has three.
You then *maybe* get 2 more outputs using the
headphone output if it is
BTW, does the headphone socket work? I seem to remember Paul Davis
saying (when he first wrote the driver) that the only things not
supported (yet) were the headphone/line out socket and the LEDs.
Goodnight,
Malc
9:14 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Wed, 2004-03-10 at 16:26, Mr. Spock wrote:
Isn't 8+4+2 == 14 channels at 96K?
I didn't think S/PDIF was capable of 96K, but it would be nice :)
At least I'd be able to get/send 96K in stereo to/from other gear,
to see what I'm missing in 48K Land.
Oh no! I don't think so. Apogee makes D/A's that handle 24-bit 192KHz on
s/pdif. Here's a link:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/support/documents.php?show=minidac
This is a nice little converter. Or this one from Cranesong:
http://www.cranesong.com/hedd192.html
No, my stupid mistake. Sorry! I meant to say 48KHz in this case.
8 analog
8 ADAT channels == 4 @ 96KHz
2 spdif
for a total of 14.
My 002 Rack does 10 channels in and out at 96KHz - 8 analog and 2 spdif.
It doesn't support RME's 96KHz ADAT interface unfortunately.
Or 18 channels at 48K.
Vs. 8+8+2 == 18 channels at 96K?
??? If you're meaning the Digiface here, wouldn't it also be
8+4+2 == 14, because for every 8 channels at 96K, you need a
*pair* of ADAT i/o; the Digi only has three. You then *maybe* get 2 more outputs using the
headphone output if it is
BTW, does the headphone socket work? I seem to remember Paul Davis
saying (when he first wrote the driver) that the only things not
supported (yet) were the headphone/line out socket and the LEDs.
Goodnight,
Malc
9:45 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
Mr. Spock wrote on Thu, 11-Mar-2004:
BTW, does the headphone socket work? I seem to
remember Paul Davis
saying (when he first wrote the driver) that the only things not
supported (yet) were the headphone/line out socket and the LEDs.
It does indeed work. It is both line level and headphone drivable,
a fully independent 2 analog outs... completely routable to via
the matrix mixer. Watch out for the levels though, it can blow
your headphones if not careful. The leds work fine.
some people have been experiencing odd issues with the cardbus
hdsp interface and certain laptop chipsets, it is not clear why.
Mine has always worked fine :)
jlc
11 Mar
11 Mar
6:29 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 08:40:19PM -0500, Jesse Chappell wrote:
some people have been experiencing odd issues with the
cardbus
hdsp interface and certain laptop chipsets, it is not clear why.
Mine has always worked fine :)
jlc
That would have been ENE cardbus controllers, which do not do
bus mastering in some incarnations (or the drivers got it wrong).
There is lots of information (mostly Windows / Apple) available
in the RME newsgroup (rme-audio at news.x-networks.de). RME really
has great support.
best regards,
v
8 Mar
8 Mar
5:26 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Good Sound Card for Pro Multitracking
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 02:04:45PM -0500, Polashek, Matthew wrote:
I would simply prefer to be able to hit 96K. I
definitely need an external
A/D/D/A unit for sound quality reasons. I can probably use external mic
pre-amps. I have been considering using a Presonus DIGImaxLt with a RME
Hammerfall 9652 but I think it ends up being cheaper to get an outboard box
with balanced ins and outs and throwing some kind of 8 channel mic pre in
front of it, unless there was a less expensive ALSA compatible option that
had 8 mic pres and 8 outs.
I went with the RME Digiface and PCI card, plus two Frontier Tango24
A/D+D/A convertors which were on special offer for a while here in the UK.
http://www.frontierdesign.com/pr_tango.htm
As you're in the U S of A, they may be even cheaper over there,
as *everybody* wants the 96K thing now.
Another idea I was considering was the CLM DB8000S 8 x mic-pre
which does 96K, and has an ADAT option (although that might only
be 8 tracks @ 48K, as I think there is a limit to ADAT) :
http://www.clmdynamics.com/db8000_frame.htm
This would give 8 inputs into a HDSP card, but you'd still need D/A
as well.
If you're recording a drumkit, well... you may one day want to use
ten channels, or twelve...
> Polashek, Matthew wrote:
> > I am operating with 2 main scenarios in mind. I am a jazz musician so I
> > would like to be able to record live shows and mix PA and Monitors for a
> > quartet so that's about 8 in and 6 out. I need fully balanced inputs to
> > prevent hum on live gigs. The second scenario is using the rig for my
> > recording studio. (a work that is still in progress) I would need
> > multiple inputs and outputs here as well.
> >
>
> Up to 44.1/48K? Or do you *require* 96K or 192K?
>
AFAIK, there are no 192K Linux-friendly soundcards yet.
Please correct me if you know something.
> In all case I would recommend an external A/D/D/A
unit.
> I see the price going up...
>
Yep, well the subject did say "Pro Multitracking" ... :)
Happy choosing!
Malcolm Smith
7565
days inactive
7568
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
15 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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D R Holsbeck -
Jesse Chappell -
Mark Knecht -
Mark Knecht -
Mr. Spock -
Polashek, Matthew -
Steve Harris -
Vincent Touquet