14 Dec
2009
14 Dec
'09
midnight
Some sleepless nights, and grotty weather finally pushed me into
thinking about redesigning my website.
I have a trial page up that I would be grateful if some of you would
look at with different browsers. Because of the way it uses javascript I
suspect there may be problems with text readers - but again I would
like to know if there are.
You should see a dark blue background with some pale yellow text at
the top, followed by 4 lines of buttons. A title, two downloads and a
play.
Hovering over the title should display some text underneath, that
should be clear of this button, and the one below.
Hovering over the download links should make their centres turn pale
yellow and display 'ogg' and 'mp3' respectively.
Hovering over the play should make it's centre turn pale yellow
Clicking on the downloads should offer the respective file type for
download.
Clicking on play should make it turn into the pause icon and start
playing the track (via flash).
The pause button should turn back into play when the track finishes or
if another track is selected.
Almost forgot! The url is:
http://www.musically.me.uk/testmanager.html
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
14 Dec
14 Dec
12:42 a.m.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
Some sleepless nights, and grotty weather finally
pushed me into
thinking about redesigning my website.
I have a trial page up that I would be grateful if some of you would
look at with different browsers. Because of the way it uses javascript I
suspect there may be problems with text readers - but again I would
like to know if there are.
You should see a dark blue background with some pale yellow text at
the top, followed by 4 lines of buttons. A title, two downloads and a
play.
Hovering over the title should display some text underneath, that
should be clear of this button, and the one below.
Hovering over the download links should make their centres turn pale
yellow and display 'ogg' and 'mp3' respectively.
Hovering over the play should make it's centre turn pale yellow
Clicking on the downloads should offer the respective file type for
download.
Clicking on play should make it turn into the pause icon and start
playing the track (via flash).
The pause button should turn back into play when the track finishes or
if another track is selected.
Almost forgot! The url is:
http://www.musically.me.uk/testmanager.html
--
Will J Godfrey
Hi Will,
The page works for me. I can play all 4 pieces. However the
download arrows doesn't set up a download but rather plays in my
browser. (In this case Firefox on a Windows Vista machine.) IT seems
this page has a problem some pages do that doesn't give me the choice
of downloading...)
HTH,
Mark
1:47 a.m.
Mark Knecht wrote:
On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Folderol
<folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
Same behavior here regarding the download links simply opening a new
Firefox tab and playing the .ogg or .mp3 file; however, if I right-click
I do get a Save Link As option that will effect the download. Firefox
3.5.5 in ArtistX.
Frank
Some sleepless nights, and grotty weather finally
pushed me into
thinking about redesigning my website.
I have a trial page up that I would be grateful if some of you would
look at with different browsers. Because of the way it uses javascript I
suspect there may be problems with text readers - but again I would
like to know if there are.
You should see a dark blue background with some pale yellow text at
the top, followed by 4 lines of buttons. A title, two downloads and a
play.
Hovering over the title should display some text underneath, that
should be clear of this button, and the one below.
Hovering over the download links should make their centres turn pale
yellow and display 'ogg' and 'mp3' respectively.
Hovering over the play should make it's centre turn pale yellow
Clicking on the downloads should offer the respective file type for
download.
Clicking on play should make it turn into the pause icon and start
playing the track (via flash).
The pause button should turn back into play when the track finishes or
if another track is selected.
Almost forgot! The url is:
http://www.musically.me.uk/testmanager.html
--
Will J Godfrey
Hi Will,
The page works for me. I can play all 4 pieces. However the
download arrows doesn't set up a download but rather plays in my
browser. (In this case Firefox on a Windows Vista machine.) IT seems
this page has a problem some pages do that doesn't give me the choice
of downloading...)
HTH,
Mark
3:55 p.m.
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:47:30 -0500
frank pirrone <frankpirrone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is a very curious and frustrating issue, that I've tried for ages
to get to the bottom of. I have found that Firefox will frequently
ignore its own 'applications' settings for no apparent reason, but not
on all sites. Later it may just decide to handle exactly the same site
correctly!
Where possible, I've looked at the source of both correctly and
incorrectly behaving sites and can find absolutely nothing to suggest
what is happening.
Some other browsers also seem to have issues with oggs in particular.
The only two browsers that I've found are consistently correct on this
issue are (ironically) IE and Opera :o
If anyone knows what the problem is, I - and I've no doubt a lot of
others - would be very keen to hear it!
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
Mark Knecht wrote:
Hi Will,
The page works for me. I can play all 4 pieces. However the
download arrows doesn't set up a download but rather plays in my
browser. (In this case Firefox on a Windows Vista machine.) IT seems
this page has a problem some pages do that doesn't give me the choice
of downloading...)
HTH,
Mark
Same behavior here regarding the download links simply opening a new
Firefox tab and playing the .ogg or .mp3 file; however, if I right-click
I do get a Save Link As option that will effect the download. Firefox
3.5.5 in ArtistX.
Frank 
5:33 p.m.
Hi Will, dear list.
Folderol schrieb:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:47:30 -0500
This is a very curious and frustrating issue, that I've tried for ages
to get to the bottom of. I have found that Firefox will frequently
ignore its own 'applications' settings for no apparent reason, but not
on all sites. Later it may just decide to handle exactly the same site
correctly!
Where possible, I've looked at the source of both correctly and
incorrectly behaving sites and can find absolutely nothing to suggest
what is happening.
Some other browsers also seem to have issues with oggs in particular.
The only two browsers that I've found are consistently correct on this
issue are (ironically) IE and Opera :o
If anyone knows what the problem is, I - and I've no doubt a lot of
others - would be very keen to hear it!
You're right: I, too, have stumbled upon this behavior more than once. I
used to think that it's a result of a "use this option every
time"-confirmation the first time firefox presents a dialog asking what
I want to do with a file. (That's what you refer to with "'appications'
settings.)
I took the opportunity to net-search the issue and found an interesting
discussion at [1]. It seems the browsers' behavior is related to the
HTTP header that is send by the webserver when delivering the requested
file. Using the "content-disposition" header, you can declare a file an
"attachment," which lets firefox open the "save as" dialog.
Since the "content-disposition: attachment;" header is not send
automatically by Apache, you need to somehow add it. In [1], the
recommended way to do it is using a simple PHP script. You can find an
example script in the discussion. If you want to use it though, I'd
strongly recommend to add some security to it. At least, The $_REQUEST
parameter needs to be parsed to make sure the script doesn't accept
requests from a different website. Also, you may want to add a filetype
check to ensure that the script handles mp3/ogg files, only.
Please remember that all I wrote here is plain theory - I didn't test
any of this myself. Hope it helps, anyway.
Best regards,
Lutz
Links:
[1]
http://geeksandgod.com/forum/ministry-technology-q/force-browser-download-m…
6:03 a.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Hello Will,
Folderol schrieb:
Some sleepless nights, and grotty weather finally
pushed me into
thinking about redesigning my website.
I have a trial page up that I would be grateful if some of you would
look at with different browsers. Because of the way it uses javascript I
suspect there may be problems with text readers - but again I would
like to know if there are.
I have checked the site with js disabeled and it is still usable and
looks OK. Unfortuantely it is not that good without css. With styles
disabeled the tracks are not visible anymore.
You should see a dark blue background with some pale
yellow text at
the top, followed by 4 lines of buttons. A title, two downloads and a
play.
Hovering over the title should display some text underneath, that
should be clear of this button, and the one below.
It works so far but you break the XHTML-Rules with the code:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musically.…
and the errors are not needed here at all.You can get the same page
rendered with perfectly valid code:
body bgcolor="#000080"
this is not a big issue, simply replace bgcolor="#000080" with
style="background-color:#000080;"
this looks exactly the same and helps to make a more modern site.
A much bigger problem is this:
<div id="title">
...
<div id="title">
A value you give for id must be unique inside a document. Apart from
being bad coding this multiple use of "title" for id can indeed cause
real problems for apps using DOM to find elements on your site e.g.
AJAX-stuff etc.
I know that the hover-show-hidden-text effect on the page only works in
all given browsers, if you use id to point to the elements, you want to
hide/show but you can easily use id title just one time to enclose
multiple buttons that you want to show via span:hover. LIke this:
<div id="homenavig">
<a href="progs.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Program
<span
class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none; font-size:12px;">
<strong>hidden text to show...</strong>
</span></a>
<br />
<a href="inst.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Installation
<span
class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none; font-size:12px;">
<strong>hidden text to show.</strong>
</span> </a>
<br />
<a href="basis.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Third
<span class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none;
font-size:12px;">
<strong>more hidden text to show.</strong>
</span>
</a>
</div>
This one is perfectly valid XHTML, works in any browser and shows
tooltipps right to links as the link is hover.
It uses this CSS:
#homenavig {
font-weight:bolder;
}
#homenavig a:hover span.tipp {
position: absolute;
top: 125px;
left:330px;
width: 370px;
padding: 2px 10px 2px 4px;
border-top: 1px solid #696969;
border-right: 4px solid black;
border-bottom: 3px solid black;
border-left: 1px solid #696969;
color: black;
background-color:white;
display: block;
}
#homenavig a span.tipp {
display: none;
}
BTW: I dont think, that the hiding of the captions is needed and I would
not recommend it. Also: the frames for the track names make them look
like buttons that can be pressed to do something. Such design should be
used for elements like links only, that really do so.Otherwise you risk
to distract/disappoint the user for no reason.
best regs
HZN
Hovering over the download links should make their centres turn pale
yellow and display 'ogg' and 'mp3' respectively.
Hovering over the play should make it's centre turn pale yellow
Clicking on the downloads should offer the respective file type for
download.
Clicking on play should make it turn into the pause icon and start
playing the track (via flash).
The pause button should turn back into play when the track finishes or
if another track is selected.
Almost forgot! The url is:
http://www.musically.me.uk/testmanager.html
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11:46 a.m.
On 14/12/2009, Hartmut Noack <zettberlin(a)linuxuse.de> wrote:
body bgcolor="#000080"
this is not a big issue, simply replace bgcolor="#000080" with
style="background-color:#000080;"
this looks exactly the same and helps to make a more modern site.
It doesn't look exactly the same on links, or dillo, or any browser
which doesn't support CSS.
A general plea to web designers everywhere: Either do ALL of your
layout (inc. colours) in CSS, and use HTML tags ONLY according to
their semantic meaning - or commit to doing as much layout in HTML as
you can, and only adding trimmings in CSS. Because if your webpage is
unreadable without CSS, it's unreadable.
5:10 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Gwenhwyfaer schrieb:
On 14/12/2009, Hartmut Noack
<zettberlin(a)linuxuse.de> wrote:
AMEN to that.
body bgcolor="#000080"
this is not a big issue, simply replace bgcolor="#000080" with
style="background-color:#000080;"
this looks exactly the same and helps to make a more modern site.
It doesn't look exactly the same on links, or dillo, or any browser
which doesn't support CSS.
A general plea to web designers everywhere: Either do ALL of your
layout (inc. colours) in CSS, and use HTML tags ONLY according to
their semantic meaning - or commit to doing as much layout in HTML as
you can, and only adding trimmings in CSS. Because if your webpage is
unreadable without CSS, it's unreadable.
Any website should be perfectly usable with CSS switched to OFF or in
any browser that ignores CSS. And BTW: any website should be perfectly
usable and look good with JavaScript OFF as well.
But HTML should only be used for semantics and DOM. I do not see any
reason for coding a chimera made out of abuse of tables for
layout-purposes, font-tags and bgcolor-attributes that break a new and
well-designed technology in favour of looking quite the same somewhat on
any given browser of the last 10 years.
Whenever I use Links and the like I search for fast and well-structured
information in an okayish generic design - not for individual designed
webpages....
best regs
HZN
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
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5:16 p.m.
On 14/12/2009, Hartmut Noack <zettberlin(a)linuxuse.de> wrote:
.... I do not see any
reason for coding a chimera made out of abuse of
tables for
layout-purposes, font-tags and bgcolor-attributes that break a new and
well-designed technology in favour of looking quite the same somewhat on
any given browser of the last 10 years.
Neither do I - but those people who do should take care to not do so
half-heartedly. If you must do something broken, break it thoroughly
and properly.
5:37 p.m.
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:46:28 +0000
Gwenhwyfaer <gwenhwyfaer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
A general plea to web designers everywhere: Either do
ALL of your
layout (inc. colours) in CSS, and use HTML tags ONLY according to
their semantic meaning - or commit to doing as much layout in HTML as
you can, and only adding trimmings in CSS. Because if your webpage is
unreadable without CSS, it's unreadable.
This is what I'm trying to work towards. However, it's a steep learning
curve, and ultimately I simply want a website that is easy to maintain,
and looks reasonable on most browsers.
This test page is already dramatically better than the rest of my site,
but there will come a point of diminishing returns, and I'd rather make
music that websites :)
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
18 Dec
18 Dec
4:36 p.m.
New subject: Under construction - more developments
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:37:03 +0000
Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:46:28 +0000
Gwenhwyfaer <gwenhwyfaer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I've now more or less settled on the style I want (implementation may
need more polish).
If anyone is interested the link is:
http://www.musically.me.uk/newindex.html
The first three page links are valid, as are all the music links. The
entries are *supposed* to be centred, but only Opera an IE7 do that
correctly as far as I know, and IE7 gets the vertical distances wrong
- I don't know if it actually does the span text at all.
Firefox and all the other geko based browsers seem to get everything
right except the centreing.
w3c validates as 100% html, and almost as good css - there are a couple
of webkit links which may or may not work!
Comments welcome.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
A general plea to web designers everywhere:
Either do ALL of your
layout (inc. colours) in CSS, and use HTML tags ONLY according to
their semantic meaning - or commit to doing as much layout in HTML as
you can, and only adding trimmings in CSS. Because if your webpage is
unreadable without CSS, it's unreadable.
This is what I'm trying to work towards. However, it's a steep learning
curve, and ultimately I simply want a website that is easy to maintain,
and looks reasonable on most browsers.
This test page is already dramatically better than the rest of my site,
but there will come a point of diminishing returns, and I'd rather make
music that websites :)
14 Dec
14 Dec
5:33 p.m.
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:03:20 +0100
Hartmut Noack <zettberlin(a)linuxuse.de> wrote:
Done
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Hash: SHA1
Hello Will,
I have checked the site with js disabeled and it is still usable and
looks OK. Unfortuantely it is not that good without css. With styles
disabeled the tracks are not visible anymore.
Corrected!
You should see
a dark blue background with some pale yellow text at
the top, followed by 4 lines of buttons. A title, two downloads and a
play.
Hovering over the title should display some text underneath, that
should be clear of this button, and the one below.
It works so far but you break the XHTML-Rules with the code:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musically.…
and the errors are not needed here at all.You can get the same page
rendered with perfectly valid code:
body bgcolor="#000080"
this is not a big issue, simply replace bgcolor="#000080" with
style="background-color:#000080;" A much bigger problem is this:
<div id="title">
...
<div id="title">
A value you give for id must be unique inside a document. Apart from
being bad coding this multiple use of "title" for id can indeed cause
real problems for apps using DOM to find elements on your site e.g.
AJAX-stuff etc.
I know that the hover-show-hidden-text effect on the page only works in
all given browsers, if you use id to point to the elements, you want to
hide/show but you can easily use id title just one time to enclose
multiple buttons that you want to show via span:hover. LIke this:
<div id="homenavig">
<a href="progs.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Program
<span
class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none; font-size:12px;">
<strong>hidden text to show...</strong>
</span></a>
<br />
<a href="inst.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Installation
<span
class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none; font-size:12px;">
<strong>hidden text to show.</strong>
</span> </a>
<br />
<a href="basis.html" style="text-decoration:none;" >Third
<span class="tipp" style="text-decoration:none;
font-size:12px;">
<strong>more hidden text to show.</strong>
</span>
</a>
</div>
This one is perfectly valid XHTML, works in any browser and shows
tooltipps right to links as the link is hover.
It uses this CSS:
#homenavig {
font-weight:bolder;
}
#homenavig a:hover span.tipp {
position: absolute;
top: 125px;
left:330px;
width: 370px;
padding: 2px 10px 2px 4px;
border-top: 1px solid #696969;
border-right: 4px solid black;
border-bottom: 3px solid black;
border-left: 1px solid #696969;
color: black;
background-color:white;
display: block;
}
#homenavig a span.tipp {
display: none;
}
BTW: I dont think, that the hiding of the captions is needed and I would
not recommend it. Also: the frames for the track names make them look
like buttons that can be pressed to do something. Such design should be
used for elements like links only, that really do so.Otherwise you risk
to distract/disappoint the user for no reason.
Hiding the byline text until you hover over the title gives a page that
looks far more 'open' with more whitespace. I think the fact that when
you do so, the relevant text immediately appears gives a clue to the
user. I may however change the colour of the graphic to make this more
obvious.
Thanks for your detailed thoughts. All good stuff, and the test page is
already improved.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.
5:55 p.m.
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Hash: SHA1
Folderol schrieb:
Then maybe give the reader a teaser like:
"A tune that came to me in a..."
And put the hidden text in the next line so the vistor knows, that there
is something and has a clue to find more ;-)
BTW: I dont
think, that the hiding of the captions is needed and I would
not recommend it. Also: the frames for the track names make them look
like buttons that can be pressed to do something. Such design should be
used for elements like links only, that really do so.Otherwise you risk
to distract/disappoint the user for no reason.
Hiding the byline text until you hover over the title gives a page that
looks far more 'open' with more whitespace. Thanks for your detailed thoughts. All good stuff, and
the test page is
already improved.
Your very welcome I am happy to be helpful :-)
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linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
12 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
6c62 -
Folderol -
frank pirrone -
Gwenhwyfaer -
Hartmut Noack -
Mark Knecht