15 Jan
2018
15 Jan
'18
10:43 p.m.
A few times in the past, and even recently, there were some comments
regarding the lack of a technology that could translate relatively well
the percussion gestures done by hands.
That technology exists and is quite affordable. It comes from
Standford University and was licensed by Yamaha. The Korg used it to
make the Wavedrum.
Since I connected mine today I thought of doing a quick 'demo', just 1
minute in which:
- fingers are brushed
- nails are brushed
- fingers are tapping
- nails are tapping
- pressure is applied
and variations thereof.
The Wavedrum is connected to the usual stereo tube preamp and
compressor used for acoustic guitar, but with different settings, and
then a bit of reverb was added. The Wavedrum currently has a Remo drum
skin.
Sound On Sound calls it 'true physical modelling'.
https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/wavedrum1
Cheers.
15 Jan
15 Jan
11:05 p.m.
Jan 15 2018, jonetsu has written:
...
This
is superb. The pressure sounds a bit odd, but it makes a nice
effect. Can the output of the trigger pads be connected to external
equipment directly or does it only transmit all the necessary data to
the Wavedrum itself?
...
Best wishes,
Jeanette
--------
* website: http://juliencoder.de - for summer is a state of sound
* SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/jeanette_c
When you need someone, you just turn around and I will be there <3
(Britney Spears)
11:48 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 23:05:18 +0100 (CET)
"Jeanette C." <julien(a)mail.upb.de> wrote:
This is superb. The pressure sounds a bit odd, but it
makes a nice
effect. Can the output of the trigger pads be connected to external
equipment directly or does it only transmit all the necessary data to
the Wavedrum itself?
There's no other output than audio. So it's an instrument by itself.
It could be a bit of a puzzle to output MIDI from this.
As an instrument, it is very programmable even though it has only 6
buttons, one knob (volume knob is not used for programming) and a small
3-character 7-segment display. For instance for tuning there are 4
parameters:
- pitch of the head algorithm
- pitch of the head PCM instrument
- pitch of the rim algorithm
- pitch of the rim PCM instrument
With each of these there's decay, level, pan, single or double
algorithm, velocity curve, pressure curve, pressure tune, pressure
decay, reverb and delay. There are also calibrations for head, rim and
pressure.
And then... for each algorithm, there are adjustable parameters. For
instance for the Udu single algorithm there's clang pitch, decay,
colour, height, width, type and level, then bell type, thickness and
colour, harmonic shift.
The Triangle algorithm has 4 metal types and 3 pitches.
There are 26 single algorithms and 10 double algorithms.
And then the type of drum skin will affect the sound. I should change
the one it has soon.
There are 100 instruments and 99 programs. And if that was not enough,
it can also play 100 pre-programmed percussion loops, to play along.
The Wavedrum debuted in 1994. That's the one I have. Got it used in
2008 or so. In 2009 the Global Edition was made with better
algorithms, sounds and sensors, and more parameters.
Cheers.
11:50 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018, jonetsu wrote:
A few times in the past, and even recently, there were
some comments
regarding the lack of a technology that could translate relatively well
the percussion gestures done by hands.
I'm one for sure.
That technology exists and is quite affordable. It
comes from
Standford University and was licensed by Yamaha. The Korg used it to
make the Wavedrum.
Since I connected mine today I thought of doing a quick 'demo', just 1
minute in which:
- fingers are brushed
- nails are brushed
- fingers are tapping
- nails are tapping
- pressure is applied
and variations thereof.
The Wavedrum is connected to the usual stereo tube preamp and
compressor used for acoustic guitar, but with different settings, and
then a bit of reverb was added. The Wavedrum currently has a Remo drum
skin.
Sound On Sound calls it 'true physical modelling'.
https://soundcloud.com/nominal6/wavedrum1
First it sounds very nice. I went looking for some other recordings and
they are nice too. Yes the technology to take the input from a drum head
and pass it to a synth seems to exist, but I do not see any output for
midi, OSC or proprietary control protocol so that the _performance_ can be
recorded and the synthesis done later even using the same synth built into
the wavedrum itself. This makes me wonder if this is true synthesis (which
in my mind means input a voltage, number that has no audio in waveform
itself in it and create the audio from scratch. This system seems to mean
take the audio in and then add resonance, change frequency or other DSP
process that just changes the original sound that comes from a known
drumskin.
So there are two things missing that I see:
1) controlability -being able to record and edit the performance
before it becomes audio.
2) proof that there really is synthesis happening and not just
digital shaping of the original audio.
Neither of these points should be considered a putdown of this technology.
This is good stuff. But rather a clarification of the offered usability as
compared to what I would be seeking. That is, this is not a
controller/synth pair but an electronic drum. (quite a nice one) I suspect
the technology in the DSP could be used quite successfully to come up with
a "MIDI" controlable drum synth. I suspect that it would not be impossible
to have a controller that could send enough information for any one stroke
to enable such a synth to sound very life like. I would suggest one MIDI
channel per drum would work nicely.... editing the midi stream might be
interesting :) So anyway, 16 MIDI drums per MIDI port.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
16 Jan
16 Jan
12:08 a.m.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:49:57 -0800 (PST)
Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
First it sounds very nice. I went looking for some
other recordings
and they are nice too. Yes the technology to take the input from a
drum head and pass it to a synth seems to exist, but I do not see any
output for midi, OSC or proprietary control protocol so that the
_performance_ can be recorded and the synthesis done later even using
the same synth built into the wavedrum itself.
Personally I wouldn't agree with Sound On Sound in calling it true
physical modelling. It's more IMHO about some kind of 'modulation' if
that's the proper terms. The Wavedrum uses PCM combined with DSP
processing. It will produce feedbacks in a live setting just about as a
microphone will.
As for the output of data, I included just a fraction in my reply to
Jeanette. There are a lot. It would certainly need a special
interface to get these out then a special interface to read them in.
MIDI will most likely not be up to it. Korg would have to invest a lot
in creating a new range of synthesizers that could accept that kind of
percussion input - not sure if that's a good business plan.
Same with editing the performance before it becomes audio.
Yes, it is an instrument by itself. Much like a conga and djembe are.
We already have since ages now velocity and pressure drum heads that
interfaces through MIDI. What makes the Wavedrum different is what
remains inside, in the processing, eg. all of those editable parameters
and algorithms that characterizes a single sound hit that would need to
get out of the instrument in digital format for it to supply
information for an actual modelling synthesizer that could make use of
all these (proprietary) inputs.
2:23 a.m.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018, jonetsu wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:49:57 -0800 (PST)
Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
I think if one was to take a MIDI note on as noteon for ch*
distance_from_rim velocity. Same three bytes used now but note number
becomes position. Note off becomes important again as the length of time a
hand (or whatever) is still touching the skin. Adding lots of program
change or cc messages for rim was hit too, percentage rim/skin. pitchbend
would still work for things like tunable drums.
I think PC as now would be before the hit, but unlike some synths would
not effect any sound now in progress.... or maybe it would. In any case
looking at any one drum as it's own instrument rather than seeing "drums"
as an instrument (channel 10 in case we forgot) would go a long way to
making better sounding drum synths. Basically there are three kinds of
events in a drum performance:
State - things that are set up before a hit - PC
Hit - timing happens here - strength of hit and position of hit
Modifyers - things that affect the sound all the time but might change in
real time.
Anyway, just idle thoughts. A real project would take a lot more time and
energy and playing around... but it would be better than channel 10.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
First it sounds very nice. I went looking for
some other recordings
and they are nice too. Yes the technology to take the input from a
drum head and pass it to a synth seems to exist, but I do not see any
output for midi, OSC or proprietary control protocol so that the
_performance_ can be recorded and the synthesis done later even using
the same synth built into the wavedrum itself.
We already have since ages now velocity and pressure drum heads that
interfaces through MIDI. What makes the Wavedrum different is what 
20 Jan
20 Jan
9:50 p.m.
You have seen U-he Physical modeling Project ?
https://youtu.be/usD7mWWWmoE
U-he also have all their other products for Linux but in beta status but
really well working.
2018-01-16 2:23 GMT+01:00 Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net>et>:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018, jonetsu wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:49:57 -0800 (PST)
Len Ovens <len(a)ovenwerks.net> wrote:
First it sounds very nice. I went looking for some other recordings
I think if one was to take a MIDI note on as noteon for ch*
distance_from_rim velocity. Same three bytes used now but note number
becomes position. Note off becomes important again as the length of time a
hand (or whatever) is still touching the skin. Adding lots of program
change or cc messages for rim was hit too, percentage rim/skin. pitchbend
would still work for things like tunable drums.
I think PC as now would be before the hit, but unlike some synths would
not effect any sound now in progress.... or maybe it would. In any case
looking at any one drum as it's own instrument rather than seeing "drums"
as an instrument (channel 10 in case we forgot) would go a long way to
making better sounding drum synths. Basically there are three kinds of
events in a drum performance:
State - things that are set up before a hit - PC
Hit - timing happens here - strength of hit and position of hit
Modifyers - things that affect the sound all the time but might change in
real time.
Anyway, just idle thoughts. A real project would take a lot more time and
energy and playing around... but it would be better than channel 10.
--
Len Ovens
www.ovenwerks.net
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
https://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
and they are nice too. Yes the technology to take
the input from a
drum head and pass it to a synth seems to exist, but I do not see any
output for midi, OSC or proprietary control protocol so that the
_performance_ can be recorded and the synthesis done later even using
the same synth built into the wavedrum itself.
We already have since ages now velocity and pressure drum heads that
interfaces through MIDI. What makes the Wavedrum different is what
21 Jan
21 Jan
1:29 a.m.
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:50:13 +0100
Anders Hellquist <lau(a)hellquist.net> wrote:
You have seen U-he Physical modeling Project ?
https://youtu.be/usD7mWWWmoE
U-he also have all their other products for Linux but in beta status
but really well working.
Urs do not mention this when speaking of upcoming products. I asked a
few times, and it's not clear. Looks very interesting though.
Cheers.
2442
days inactive
2448
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Anders Hellquist -
Jeanette C. -
jonetsu -
Len Ovens