7 Apr
2008
7 Apr
'08
7:07 p.m.
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/Errata#Skype_with_Puls…
Ubuntu has already switched.
Check
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
8 Apr
8 Apr
5:53 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:07:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Susan Cragin <susancragin(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Releases/Mandriva/2008.0/Errata#Skype_with_Puls…
Ubuntu has already switched.
Check
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
Yes, but the release is scheduled for April 24., so it will be quite
the same time as Mandriva.
However, my experience with pulseaudio from pre-release ubuntu studio
isn't that bad.
I have two soundcards in use, a cheap consumer on pci and an usb
interface, and both get recognised. The only problem I had there was
that the PA-controls are somewhat unusual and it took me a bit to
figure out how to set a default card, which is useful to auto-assign
every app to a specific card, the consumer-thing in my case.
As already mentioned, PA and Portaudio don't work together, no idea if
that will change. Also, I'm not too sure that the alsa emulation layer
does the job to 100%.
Of course, PA and jack don't work together either (at the same time on
the same device(interface?) at least). Both need full access.
So in any case where you need a Portaudio app, a demanding alsa app or
jack you want to shut PA down.
Oh, and I think I had cases where some apps simply didn't show up in
the volume controls, I think VLC was such a case.
Any way, I'm not really impressed but it doesn't really stand in my way,
Ubuntu Studio has a script to shut PA down when you start jack ;)
Best Regards,
Philipp
6:44 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
Il giorno mar, 08/04/2008 alle 09.53 +0200, hollunder(a)gmx.at ha scritto:
Of course, PA and jack don't work together either
(at the same time on
the same device(interface?) at least). Both need full access.
I've not tried it yet, but recent versions of PulseAudio have a JACK
sink...
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Modules#module-jack-sink
14 Apr
14 Apr
5:22 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:44:00AM +0200, Alberto Botti wrote:
Il giorno mar, 08/04/2008 alle 09.53 +0200,
hollunder(a)gmx.at ha scritto:
Maybe I am confused.
Is PulseAudio a replacement for ALSA or does it sit on top of ALSA?
Is it even attempting to be a replacement for JACK in terms of pro-audio real-time
low-latency?
Or is it a replacement for esd or whatever sound daemon or the GNOME or KDE daemon thing
use?
If so, how is PulseAudio any different from any other desktop sound daemon that JACK users
have been disabling since time immemorial?
-ken
Of course, PA and jack don't work together
either (at the same time on
the same device(interface?) at least). Both need full access.
I've not tried it yet, but recent versions of PulseAudio have a JACK
sink...
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Modules#module-jack-sink
6:05 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:22:57 -0700
Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:44:00AM +0200, Alberto
Botti wrote:
Yes, this exactly.
Il giorno mar, 08/04/2008 alle 09.53 +0200,
hollunder(a)gmx.at ha
scritto:
Maybe I am confused.
Is PulseAudio a replacement for ALSA or does it sit on top of ALSA?
Is it even attempting to be a replacement for JACK in terms of
pro-audio real-time low-latency?
Or is it a replacement for esd or whatever sound daemon or the GNOME
or KDE daemon thing use? Of course, PA and jack don't work together
either (at the same
time on the same device(interface?) at least). Both need full
access.
I've not tried it yet, but recent versions of PulseAudio have a JACK
sink...
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Modules#module-jack-sink
If so, how is PulseAudio any different from any other desktop sound
daemon that JACK users have been disabling since time immemorial?
More flexibility for normal users, the use of more than one sound card
without dnsnoop(sic) and the supposed ability to pipe each application's
sound thru which sound card they want. (I have had no success with
this, but I'm not fond of tinkering with no idea of what I'm doing).
And yes, using the gconf setting to tell gstreamer to use its jack pipe
is easier, better documented and most applications seem to be happy
with it (at least in the gtk2 world).
Shelagh
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jabber: shelagh.manton(a)gmail.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
6:06 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
Am Montag, 14. April 2008 schrieb Ken Restivo:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:44:00AM +0200, Alberto
Botti wrote:
No, PulseAudio sits on top of Alsa like any other sound-library/-server.
Il giorno mar, 08/04/2008 alle 09.53 +0200,
hollunder(a)gmx.at ha scritto:
Maybe I am confused.
Is PulseAudio a replacement for ALSA or does it sit on top of ALSA? Of course, PA and jack don't work together
either (at the same time on
the same device(interface?) at least). Both need full access.
I've not tried
it yet, but recent versions of PulseAudio have a JACK
sink... Is it even attempting to be a replacement for JACK in
terms of pro-audio
real-time low-latency?
No more than for example aRts did...
Or is it a replacement for esd or whatever sound
daemon or the GNOME or KDE
daemon thing use?
It aims to be _the_ replacement for life, the universe and everything. And in
my oppinion it will fail big time.
Back when KDE did choose aRts for the central soundsystem, there was soon the
call for one soundsystem for all desktops. So there was an attempt to adopt
aRts to gnome. After a lot of work from the aRts dev, gnome decided to go
with esd...
Now KDE introduces a big multimedia-framework that will truly be portable.
(Note that a multimedia-framework is better then a sound-framework for
desktop use, because it includes both audio and video in one api.) Phonon
will be shipped with Qt and therefor every platform Qt supports will sooner
or later have a working Phonon-backend.
Where does PulseAudio come into that picture? - When the gnome-guys realized
that esd is out of date and they want a new api/lib. Unfortunately they
decided to a) write their own and not adopt what is there and b) to go
audio-only which means no chance of KDE adopting it (apart from the fact that
kde already has Phonon). So PulseAudio is by design not _the_ solution for
sound on the desktop. It is just another middle-layer for sound. And why
should a desktop-app-dev adopt PulseAudio when he would have to use another
api/lib for video? Isn't it better to use one api/lib that has both and even
does them in sync?
And PulseAudio claims to unify both desktop-needs and pro-audio-needs. Another
place it will fail big time. Because it will never be good enough to have
ardour use PulseAudio. (Hint: Jack was designed for ardour...)
If so, how is PulseAudio any different from any other
desktop sound daemon
that JACK users have been disabling since time immemorial?
PulseAudio is just another api/lib accessing the various sound-daemons we
always disable.
Much personal opinion...
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
9:02 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
I am with Arnold's opinion on this. In summary:
* PulseAudio is not a JACK replacement
On 14/04/2008, Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Am Montag, 14. April 2008 schrieb Ken Restivo:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 10:44:00AM +0200, Alberto
Botti wrote:
> Il giorno mar, 08/04/2008 alle 09.53 +0200, hollunder(a)gmx.at ha
scritto:
> > Of course, PA and jack don't work
together either (at the same time
on
> > the same device(interface?) at least).
Both need full access.
> I've not tried it yet, but recent versions of PulseAudio have a JACK
> sink...
Maybe I am confused.
Is PulseAudio a replacement for ALSA or does it sit on top of ALSA?
No, PulseAudio sits on top of Alsa like any other sound-library/-server.
Is it even attempting to be a replacement for
JACK in terms of pro-audio
real-time low-latency?
No more than for example aRts did...
Or is it a replacement for esd or whatever sound
daemon or the GNOME or
KDE
daemon thing use?
It aims to be _the_ replacement for life, the universe and everything. And
in
my oppinion it will fail big time.
Back when KDE did choose aRts for the central soundsystem, there was soon
the
call for one soundsystem for all desktops. So there was an attempt to
adopt
aRts to gnome. After a lot of work from the aRts dev, gnome decided to go
with esd...
Now KDE introduces a big multimedia-framework that will truly be portable.
(Note that a multimedia-framework is better then a sound-framework for
desktop use, because it includes both audio and video in one api.) Phonon
will be shipped with Qt and therefor every platform Qt supports will
sooner
or later have a working Phonon-backend.
Where does PulseAudio come into that picture? - When the gnome-guys
realized
that esd is out of date and they want a new api/lib. Unfortunately they
decided to a) write their own and not adopt what is there and b) to go
audio-only which means no chance of KDE adopting it (apart from the fact
that
kde already has Phonon). So PulseAudio is by design not _the_ solution for
sound on the desktop. It is just another middle-layer for sound. And why
should a desktop-app-dev adopt PulseAudio when he would have to use
another
api/lib for video? Isn't it better to use one api/lib that has both and
even
does them in sync?
And PulseAudio claims to unify both desktop-needs and pro-audio-needs.
Another
place it will fail big time. Because it will never be good enough to have
ardour use PulseAudio. (Hint: Jack was designed for ardour...)
If so, how is PulseAudio any different from any
other desktop sound
daemon
that JACK users have been disabling since time
immemorial?
PulseAudio is just another api/lib accessing the various sound-daemons we
always disable.
Much personal opinion...
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and
send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
9:27 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Where does PulseAudio come into that picture? - When the gnome-guys realized
that esd is out of date and they want a new api/lib. Unfortunately they
decided to a) write their own and not adopt what is there and b) to go
audio-only which means no chance of KDE adopting it (apart from the fact that
kde already has Phonon). So PulseAudio is by design not _the_ solution for
sound on the desktop. It is just another middle-layer for sound. And why
should a desktop-app-dev adopt PulseAudio when he would have to use another
api/lib for video? Isn't it better to use one api/lib that has both and even
does them in sync?
Isn't comparing Phonon and PulseAudio apples and oranges though? If I
understand the situation correctly Phonon is just an abstraction layer
that interfaces with various multimedia frameworks, whereas PulseAudio
is an actual sound server. Even if the gnome guys had adopted Phonon
that wouldn't have fixed the esd situation (old, unmaintained sound
server). PulseAudio is a drop in replacement for esd and if you want
to use Phonon you could (I assume at least in theory) use PulseAudio
as a backend for it (or PulseAudio via gstreamer or xinelib or
whatever).
And PulseAudio claims to unify both desktop-needs and
pro-audio-needs. Another
place it will fail big time. Because it will never be good enough to have
ardour use PulseAudio. (Hint: Jack was designed for ardour...)
Are there fundamental design decisions in PulseAudio that would make
this impossible, as opposed to just difficult or a lot of work?
(sincere question, I have no idea)
As cool as Jack is surely it would be nice to have a sound
architecture on linux that seamlessly supported pro-needs as well as
typical desktop needs?
Cheers....Steve
10:47 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 21:27 +1000, Steve Lindsay wrote:
As cool as Jack is surely it would be nice to have a
sound
architecture on linux that seamlessly supported pro-needs as well as
typical desktop needs?
As nice as it would be to have a person in charge ala Steve Jobs who can
just tell all the pesky developers "*THIS* is the API you *WILL* use
from now on". I almost mean this seriously, on some levels. CoreAudio is
a great piece of work, relatively speaking. It exists and has succeeded
only because Jobs/Apple gave apple developers no option but to use it.
On linux, things take off because they work, not because someone says
they are the thing to use. Problem is, there are quite a few things that
work ...
12:12 p.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
Am Montag, 14. April 2008 schrieb Steve Lindsay:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Arnold Krille
<arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Where is the difference between an abstraction layer by design and a
soundserver that can make use of other soundservers?
The main argument for using PA is that it can make use of many things already
out there. Which is exactly what an abstraction layer does. So we are talking
apples and oranges that can also act as apples here. Which makes it valid to
compare the apples-part.
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
Where does PulseAudio come into that picture? -
When the gnome-guys
realized that esd is out of date and they want a new api/lib.
Unfortunately they decided to a) write their own and not adopt what is
there and b) to go audio-only which means no chance of KDE adopting it
(apart from the fact that kde already has Phonon). So PulseAudio is by
design not _the_ solution for sound on the desktop. It is just another
middle-layer for sound. And why should a desktop-app-dev adopt PulseAudio
when he would have to use another api/lib for video? Isn't it better to
use one api/lib that has both and even does them in sync?
Isn't comparing
Phonon and PulseAudio apples and oranges though? If I
understand the situation correctly Phonon is just an abstraction layer
that interfaces with various multimedia frameworks, whereas PulseAudio
is an actual sound server.
10:45 a.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:04 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
So PulseAudio is by design not _the_ solution for
sound on the desktop. It is just another middle-layer for sound.
reasonable people might choose to disagree about this.
And why
should a desktop-app-dev adopt PulseAudio when he would have to use another
api/lib for video? Isn't it better to use one api/lib that has both and even
does them in sync?
gstreamer exists for this purpose. whether its the right solution is not
a question i am in a position to address. it is, however, vitally
important to distinguish between APIs intended for:
* intra-application management of media streams
* delivery/receipt of media streams to endpoints outside
of an application
PulseAudio is aimed at the second task; gstreamer is aimed at the first.
my impression is that Phonon is attempting to cover both. good? bad?
*you* decide :)
And PulseAudio claims to unify both desktop-needs and
pro-audio-needs. Another
place it will fail big time. Because it will never be good enough to have
ardour use PulseAudio. (Hint: Jack was designed for ardour...)
Lennart (PA's author) fully understands how and why JACK is different
from PulseAudio, and has long term to plans to try to provide
jack-server functionality within pulse. PA also has a JACK backend
already, so that you can use "desktop" apps while JACK is running and
still hear them.
--p
12:08 p.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
Am Montag, 14. April 2008 schrieb Paul Davis:
That last argument probably applies to _every_ soundsystem out there on linux.
Because everytime one of them authors claims to revolutionize the sound on
linux the lad/lau guys ask "can you make use of jack?", they sit down and
produce a sink to use jack for output. But what is the purpose to stack PA on
top of esd (or gstreamer) on top of Jack on top of alsa???
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a "rm -rf /". Or ask your
administrator to do so...
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:04 +0200, Arnold Krille
wrote:
Does PA cover all the points today's desktop apps need? Does it have video?
And yes, video has proven to be one of the important requisites for
desktop-app-devs during the Phonon-design-process...
So PulseAudio is by design not _the_ solution
for
sound on the desktop. It is just another middle-layer for sound.
reasonable people
might choose to disagree about this. * intra-application management of media streams
* delivery/receipt of media streams to endpoints outside
of an application
PulseAudio is aimed at the second task; gstreamer is aimed at the first.
my impression is that Phonon is attempting to cover both. good? bad?
*you* decide :)
Hmm, using one lib/api against using two or more... I know, I go for using
_one_ api for it all. And if it is already inside the toolkit I use, the
decision gets even more easy.
And PulseAudio
claims to unify both desktop-needs and pro-audio-needs.
Another place it will fail big time. Because it will never be good enough
to have ardour use PulseAudio. (Hint: Jack was designed for ardour...)
Lennart
(PA's author) fully understands how and why JACK is different
from PulseAudio, and has long term to plans to try to provide
jack-server functionality within pulse. PA also has a JACK backend
already, so that you can use "desktop" apps while JACK is running and
still hear them. 
1:34 p.m.
New subject: PulseAudio
On 14 April 2008 at 8:44, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
... PA also has a JACK backend already, so that you
can use
"desktop" apps while JACK is running and still hear them.
I will have to check that out. It would be really great from
where I sit. Cheers....
--
Kevin
6069
days inactive
6076
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
12 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Alberto Botti -
Arnold Krille -
hollunder＠gmx.at -
Ken Restivo -
Kevin Cosgrove -
Paul Davis -
Ray Rashif -
Shelagh Manton -
Steve Lindsay -
Susan Cragin