12 May
2005
12 May
'05
8:43 a.m.
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
Which audio/MIDI card would you recommend for such a setup ?
Which speakers system could deliver good sound quality. I presently
have some Creative I-Trigue speakers and I'd hate doing any quality
stuff with it implying listening closely over and over again to
sequences and sounds. Is it possible to connect regular sound system
quality speakers to PC sound cards ? What speaker setup would you
recommend for driving both the external synth(s) and audio sound card ?
Is a mixer needed ?
Thanks a lot for any advice/suggestion/hint !
Cheers,
Al
12 May
12 May
10:08 a.m.
gioved?, 12 maggio 2005 alle 06:44:44, lanas ha scritto:
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
Sorry, I don't have any experience on 64bit athlons :(
Which audio/MIDI card would you recommend for such a
setup ?
m-audio audiophile 2496 is the best choice for the price IMHO (it's 88
eur on thomann.de), you will not find any pro card with an onboard synth
like the creative (which is the only one supported by ALSA, AFAIK) so
for using soundfonts you have to use a soft synth (not a big problem
with modern hardware) like fluidsynth.
Which speakers system could deliver good sound
quality. I presently
have some Creative I-Trigue speakers and I'd hate doing any quality
stuff with it implying listening closely over and over again to
sequences and sounds. Is it possible to connect regular sound system
quality speakers to PC sound cards ? What speaker setup would you
recommend for driving both the external synth(s) and audio sound card ?
For hd recording and mixing the best is to buy a couple of nearfield
monitors, but they are quite expensive... they are amplified so you
don't have to buy a separate amplifier. The entry level are the ESI NEAR
05 (around 250 eur per pair), or the SAMSON RESOLV 65A (around 300) or
the BEHRINGER B2030A Truth (285 eur).
If you can spend more there are a lot of choices (yamaha, event,
tannoy, etc..) but the butget can go higher... You should in any case
listen to them and compare them by ear with the same musical program and
possibly in the same ambient, so the best is to find a local dealer who
has a wide choice and that let you sit in front of them for some hours.
Studio monitors are quite different from normal loudspeakers in that
their goal is to give the most linear response possible, for doing a
correct and balanced mix, so I would avoid sound system speakers.
Is a mixer needed ?
IMHO yes, absolutely. Especially if you have external sources to record
and route to the PC. You can find very cheap ones from behringer (under
100 eur). Also here the more you can afford (usually) the best it will
sound, and the more channels/features it will have. Remember that you will
get out of channels sooner or later ;) If you plan to use condenser
microphones the mixer should provide phantom power. Another plus is the
presence of channel inserts (or direct outs, but this is often found on
not-so-small mixers only) and assignable submasters.
Good mixer makers are soundcraft and makie.
Thanks a lot for any advice/suggestion/hint !
Cheers,
Al
HTH, ciao
--
Emiliano Grilli
Linux user #209089
http://www.emillo.net
12:42 p.m.
On 5/12/05, Emiliano Grilli <emillo(a)libero.it> wrote:
I respectfully disagree here. I prefer dedicated mic-pres over a
mixer. I have a small Behringer mixer, but it's not flexible enough
to be useful. I usually run two outputs of my Delta 66 to it and just
use it for monitoring.
gioved?, 12 maggio 2005 alle 06:44:44, lanas ha
scritto:
[SNIP]
Is a mixer
needed ?
IMHO yes, absolutely. Especially if you have external sources to record
and route to the PC. You can find very cheap ones from behringer (under
100 eur). Also here the more you can afford (usually) the best it will
sound, and the more channels/features it will have. Remember that you will
get out of channels sooner or later ;) If you plan to use condenser
microphones the mixer should provide phantom power. Another plus is the
presence of channel inserts (or direct outs, but this is often found on
not-so-small mixers only) and assignable submasters.
Good mixer makers are soundcraft and makie.
> Which speakers system could deliver good sound
quality. I presently
> have some Creative I-Trigue speakers and I'd hate doing any quality
> stuff with it implying listening closely over and over again to
> sequences and sounds. Is it possible to connect regular sound system
> quality speakers to PC sound cards ? What speaker setup would you
> recommend for driving both the external synth(s) and audio sound card ?
I can't afford proper monitors, so I run a stereo pair of line-outs
into the Tape-2 input on my Hi-Fi. This works fine (but I have a nice
system: NAD C350 with Tannoy speakers). You could use any input on a
stereo or A/V receiver except for phono. You cna't directly connect
normal speakers because neither they nor the soundcard have an
amplifier.
Hope that helps...
13 May
13 May
5:43 a.m.
gioved?, 12 maggio 2005 alle 10:42:48, Paul Coccoli ha scritto:
I get your point, but I think that for the same price a mixer gives you
more flexibility than a mic pre... maybe a little less quality in
sound... and it depends also on what you want to do. Obviously if you
have only 2 mics and record 2 tracks a time with acoustic instruments, a
mic pre is the right choice. But if you have more sources (some
expanders, a drum machine, a cd player, a dat, whatever...) what you do
with a 2ch pre? Do you swap the cables each time?
Let's consider two behringer products:
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw8_behringer_t1953_tube_ultragain_prodinfo.html
(139 eur)
and
http://www.thomann.de/thoiw8_behringer_ub1204pro_eurorack_prodinfo.html#fpix
(111 eur)
With the first you surely get a better sound, but you get 2 channels
instead of 12 !!!
It depends on the use, but if I'm told "in what order would you buy
those 2 products"? I would surely get the mixer first.
And is clear that we are talking about low budget products... so does
matter also what kind of microphone you are going to connect to it...
Regards,
--
Emiliano Grilli
Linux user #209089
http://www.emillo.net
gioved?, 12
maggio 2005 alle 06:44:44, lanas ha scritto:
I respectfully disagree here. I prefer dedicated mic-pres over a
mixer. I have a small Behringer mixer, but it's not flexible enough
to be useful. I usually run two outputs of my Delta 66 to it and just
use it for monitoring. Is a mixer needed ?
IMHO yes, absolutely. Especially if you have external sources to record
and route to the PC. You can find very cheap ones from behringer (under
100 eur). Also here the more you can afford (usually) the best it will
sound, and the more channels/features it will have. Remember that you will
get out of channels sooner or later ;) If you plan to use condenser
microphones the mixer should provide phantom power. Another plus is the
presence of channel inserts (or direct outs, but this is often found on
not-so-small mixers only) and assignable submasters.
Good mixer makers are soundcraft and makie.
12 May
12 May
10:47 a.m.
lanas schrieb:
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?).
AFAIK, there are no socket 939 boards with sma.
i'd get skt 939 as these have 4 memory slots, and
2 SS 512 MB dimms are cheaper than one DS 1024MB dimm
also, a card like an Readeon 7000VE is very cheap, bu will have an dvi
out
Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
Which audio/MIDI card would you recommend for such a setup ?
Which speakers system could deliver good sound quality. I presently
have some Creative I-Trigue speakers and I'd hate doing any quality
stuff with it implying listening closely over and over again to
sequences and sounds. Is it possible to connect regular sound system
quality speakers to PC sound cards ? What speaker setup would you
recommend for driving both the external synth(s) and audio sound card ?
Is a mixer needed ?
Thanks a lot for any advice/suggestion/hint !
Cheers,
Al
12:58 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 06:44 -0400, lanas wrote:
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
If you want it to Just Work I would say wait a year or get a 32 bit
system. Many people seem to buy x86_64 systems and expect it to be 100%
as reliable as a 32 bit system. But of course this will not be so, as
32 but x86 has been around for 20-25 years, and x86-64 came out what, 6
months ago?
I would recommend avoiding 64 bit systems until there is a mature
pure-64 distro to run on it. AFAICT it does not exist yet.
I would recommend to use the onboard video, as an Nvidia or ATI card
will require binary-only drivers for full support, and high-end video
cards often are not good PCI bus citizens. It's very common for vendors
to cheat in ways that adversely affect the entire system, just to
squeeze out a few points on some Windows benchmark.
Lee
4:07 p.m.
On 5/12/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 06:44 -0400, lanas wrote:
You can get a 64 and run in legacy mode. The 64 is not much more
expensive than the XP counterparts. I have been using 64 for quite a
while now...between 1 and 2 years somewhere. Some stuff is not as
stable and my DVD burner just now started working with the newer
kernels. I run into few problems really though. There are several
full fledged distributions for the 64. I use Gentoo myself and they
now have a GRP for the 64 (when I installed stage3 was most pre-built
you could get).
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
If you want it to Just Work I would say wait a year or get a 32 bit
system. Many people seem to buy x86_64 systems and expect it to be 100%
as reliable as a 32 bit system. But of course this will not be so, as
32 but x86 has been around for 20-25 years, and x86-64 came out what, 6
months ago?
I would recommend avoiding 64 bit systems until there is a mature
pure-64 distro to run on it. AFAICT it does not exist yet. 
7:09 p.m.
> > What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon
64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
> > 250 GB disk storage.
I am using Athlon 3000 with 1GB RAM on debian-pure64 since last year as
my desktop.
I have had to learn a lot to get all the sound stuff going, had to
compile alsa-tools (to control Delta Audiophile 2496 card), and still
having issues compiling and installing the patched 32bit PAM on 64.
I can run Ardour, Rosegarden, Hydrogen and ZynAddSubFX all together and
record from external sources.
There are people working on 64bit sound distros which may hit the
"market" real soon...
I have 32bit Demudi on another partition but I use the 64 side 99%.
I have no formal computer training since the mid-seventies (punching
holes in cards with a paper clip) and got back into 'puters with Debian
woody on a freebie 233MHz P2 in July 2003. Took me 3 weeks to do the
first install coz I didn't have a clue...
Hope this helps, Go 64!
Cheers,
Norv
8:14 p.m.
Noah Roberts schrieb:
On 5/12/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com>
wrote:
true, but you can get a really good Skt A (abit NF7-S) board for €45.
OTOH when you go for a really cheap skt754 board, you have to pay
€50 (ECS something with sis 755). for an ok skt939 board you pay 69€
(gigabyte something with NF3U)
prices for cpus:
Athlon XP 3000+ : 98
A64/skt754 3000+ : 111
A64/skt939 3000+ : 118
so tahts 143€ vs. 187€ or + 30% price for the A64 solution.
the A64 _is_ faster OTOH, and does use less power, even at
stock speeds => lower noise.
and with 2 GB ram in mind, i would save at least 38 € for ram
(ie. the skt a has three memory slots; so i need one 1 GB and 2 x 512 MB
thats 128€ + 2 * 45€ = 218.
skt939 has 4 memory slots, so i need 4 x 512MB = 4 * 45€ = 180€)
so the diff would decrease to only 6 €. this will clearly favour the A64.
and, if i had the choice right now, id get the A64 anyway, even it was 50€
more expensive as this is a way more future proof.
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 06:44 -0400, lanas wrote:
You can get a 64 and run in legacy mode. The 64 is not much more
expensive than the XP counterparts.
Hi all,
I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
software development) for creating and recording music.
What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
mobo would you recommend ?
If you want it to Just Work I would say wait a year or get a 32 bit
system. Many people seem to buy x86_64 systems and expect it to be 100%
as reliable as a 32 bit system. But of course this will not be so, as
32 but x86 has been around for 20-25 years, and x86-64 came out what, 6
months ago?
I would recommend avoiding 64 bit systems until there is a mature
pure-64 distro to run on it. AFAICT it does not exist yet.
I have been using 64 for quite a
while now...between 1 and 2 years somewhere. Some stuff is not as
stable and my DVD burner just now started working with the newer
kernels. I run into few problems really though. There are several
full fledged distributions for the 64. I use Gentoo myself and they
now have a GRP for the 64 (when I installed stage3 was most pre-built
you could get).
4:45 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 07:58, Lee Revell wrote:
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 06:44 -0400, lanas wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm plaaning to get a new home PC that could also be used (along with
> software development) for creating and recording music.
>
> What I'd like to do: sequence MIDI external sounds (synth module(s)),
> add accoustic guitar and flute, record everything to wav and/or Ogg
> Vorbis formats (using original external synths sounds). Optionally, to
> be also able to choose from a palette of SoundFonts (as I did with
> my current PC, using a SB Live! card and MusE).
>
> What I'd like to get as PC: an Athlon 64bit based mobo, 2 GB RAM, some
> 250 GB disk storage. graphics card not that important as it's not used
> to play games (why not on-board graphic ?). Operating system: in the
> end most likely handmade Linux based on LFS (Linux From Scratch) but for
> starters SuSE 9.3 64-bit, or any other that's good enough.
>
> Now, is there some strong allergic reaction between a Linux Audio
> setup and 64-bit CPUs ? Are 64-bits platforms recommended for audio
> purposes or is it better to wait a few more years ? If it's OK, which
> mobo would you recommend ?
[MUNCH]
I would recommend to use the onboard video, as an
Nvidia or ATI card
will require binary-only drivers for full support, and high-end video
cards often are not good PCI bus citizens. It's very common for vendors
to cheat in ways that adversely affect the entire system, just to
squeeze out a few points on some Windows benchmark.
If you don't need top graphics speed an ATI card based on the 9250
chipset or lower will work with hardware acceleration with the stock x
drivers. That gives you (if my memory serves me) around 1300 or so in
glxgears.
-- Fernando
5:19 p.m.
On Thursday 12 May 2005 15:58, Lee Revell wrote:
If you want it to Just Work I would say wait a year or
get a 32 bit
system.
Agreed... sort of. I don't think you can put together a good reliable
true 64-bit system just yet. On the other hand, the Athlon 64 is also
pretty damn good in 32-bit mode.
I'm typing this on an Athlon 64 system with a purely 32-bit distro on it
(Studio to Go! needless to say) and it works very well for audio use.
It's a laptop, with an Echo Indigo I/O soundcard.
I would recommend to use the onboard video
Or get a dual-head digital-out Matrox card and two LCD panels. (The
video cards are dirt cheap, but of course you need to be able to afford
and house two screens.) I don't use that setup on my own desktop, but
I wish I did...
Chris
2:10 p.m.
On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 06:44:44AM -0400, lanas wrote:
Which speakers system could deliver good sound
quality. I presently
have some Creative I-Trigue speakers and I'd hate doing any quality
stuff with it implying listening closely over and over again to
sequences and sounds. Is it possible to connect regular sound system
quality speakers to PC sound cards ?
Yes, but you'll need an amplifier (or self-amplified speakers).
I'm a big fan of the PSB Alpha B home stereo speakers, I think
it's the best bargain around in bookshelf speakers.
If you dig around you can find them for under US $200 / pair, and at that
price they sound better than most studio monitors in the under-$1000 range.
(Of course you have to add the price of an amp too; I just use my old
home stereo amp.)
I wouldn't mind a pair of Mackie HR624's, I like how they sound
and they're probably more accurate, but those are $900 / pair and I've heard
rumours of reliability issues (it didn't help that when I went to check
them out, one of the demo units was broken).
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
7271
days inactive
7272
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
11 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Chris Cannam -
Emiliano Grilli -
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -
lanas -
Lee Revell -
Noah Roberts -
Norval Watson -
Paul Coccoli -
Paul Winkler -
tommy