1 Dec
2011
1 Dec
'11
6:59 a.m.
PS: What is the situation if you make a song near the style to a known composer? And what
is the situation, if you make a song in the style of a known composer and years after you
did, this composer wrote a song that is similar, resp. equal to your song in her/his
style?
The answer is, that musicians don't care about it, just untalented assholes even sue
their own fans. Metallica!
IMO quoting isn't a matter for the law, it's only a matter for our own tastes. If
there's a reason to quote it's ok, it's wanted, if the cause is a lack of
ideas, you blame yourself.
IMO you only blame yourself regarding to abstruse meter :p. I don't think you've
got a lack of own ideas ;).
If you should quote it would be a gain and not a robbery.
1 Dec
1 Dec
8:15 a.m.
I second what Ralf says.
There is a nice Russian article on the subject. Shortly speaking, it is
about the fact that art has always been standing on other artists'
shoulders. But now such a stance is denied to artists and it is sometimes
even deemed shameful if you are using synth presets, instead of coming up
with your own. So the article speaks of how the cult of originality has
toned down creativity and that songwriters spend too much time trying to
make original presets and arrangements instead of writing songs and how
much time is spent in doing something original just for the sake of
originality.
I am very much with what the author says. I do not see a problem with
anyone using another composer's melody. In fact, isn't this is what
composers write songs for, so that people can play and sing them?
Indeed, economical thinking has distorted perception of art greatly with
this concept of originality.
Cheers!
Louigi.
9:17 a.m.
What a load of bollocks. Originality is key to art. Without it you are a
glorified jester. There is nothing wrong indeed using themes developed by
others if you avoid simply repeating tired cliches. So use other peoples
melodies as long as you make them somehow your own.
In fact, isn't this is what composers write songs
for, so that people can
play and sing them?
No.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
I second what Ralf says.
There is a nice Russian article on the subject. Shortly speaking, it is
about the fact that art has always been standing on other artists'
shoulders. But now such a stance is denied to artists and it is sometimes
even deemed shameful if you are using synth presets, instead of coming up
with your own. So the article speaks of how the cult of originality has
toned down creativity and that songwriters spend too much time trying to
make original presets and arrangements instead of writing songs and how
much time is spent in doing something original just for the sake of
originality.
I am very much with what the author says. I do not see a problem with
anyone using another composer's melody. In fact, isn't this is what
composers write songs for, so that people can play and sing them?
Indeed, economical thinking has distorted perception of art greatly with
this concept of originality.
Cheers!
Louigi.
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--
"Cheshire-Puss," she began, "would you tell me, please,
which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't care much where--" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.
11:39 a.m.
What a load of bollocks. Originality is key to art.
songwriters spend too much time trying to
make original presets
---
There are different kinds of compositions. Some need new sounds, because sound is what
they are composed for, others are based on e.g. melodies and e.g. the old faithful grand
piano sound is all you need, even if this sound was used countless times before.
I'm able see one issue. If you and I use Creative Commons. In Germany the GEMA sued
kindergartens for singing Rolf Zuckowski's children's songs.
Where do we go with all that laws?
In Germany children aren't allowed to sing children's songs?!
I'm making art for freedom and peace. If I wouldn't make art, I would have to vote
with a bullet. Art is to make fun, not to sue people.
NO LICENSES FOR ARTS!
2 Cents,
Ralf
11:47 a.m.
PS: "In Germany the GEMA sued kindergartens for singing Rolf Zuckowski's
children's songs."
Pardon, in Germany the children are allowed to sing his songs, but they have to pay for
singing his songs.
Fuck Rolf Zuckowski.
Well I payed much money to the GEMA when buying empty tapes, CDs etc. that were used for
my own compositions! Later I bought data tapes instead of "normal empty" DAT
tapes "for music", because they were even not half as expensive. The GEMA is a
mafia.
12:30 p.m.
Hello again Ralf!
I think I can agree with your opinion of the GEMA, if not so strongly
worded. :-)
Kind regards
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:44 a.m.
Am 01.12.2011 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
PS: "In Germany the GEMA sued kindergartens for
singing Rolf Zuckowski's children's songs."
Pardon, in Germany the children are allowed to sing his songs, but they have to pay for
singing his songs.
Fuck Rolf Zuckowski.
You will have to f...k quite a lot of people, if you apply that to
everyone, who deserves it.
No, not Zuckowski: GEMA is the problem. Some say, GEMA is the most
aggressive and reactionary PRO in the west. Its politics dictate every
musician: be with us or be nothing. And they do not ask Zuckowski or any
of their members before they sue a kindergarden, a hospital or a social
youth club.
Well I payed much money to the GEMA when buying empty tapes, CDs etc. that were used for
my own compositions! Later I bought data tapes instead of "normal empty" DAT
tapes "for music", because they were even not half as expensive. The GEMA is a
mafia.
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http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
12:11 p.m.
On 02/12/11 11:44, Hartmut Noack wrote:
--
** NOTE **: This gmail address is my new email.
I will still be reading my libero.it email, but please use this new one
for any further email.
Thanks you for understanding.
** NOTA **: Questo indirizzo gmail è la mia nuova email.
Continuerò a leggere la posta libero.it ancora per un po' ma vi prego di
usare questa nuova da ora in poi.
Grazie per la comprensione.
Am 01.12.2011 12:47, schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
I think SIAE is pretty much the same (apart from the fact, maybe, that
they have a legal monopoly here in Italy).
Its politics dictate every
PS: "In Germany the GEMA sued kindergartens
for singing Rolf
Zuckowski's children's songs."
Pardon, in Germany the children are allowed to sing his songs, but
they have to pay for singing his songs.
Fuck Rolf Zuckowski.
You will have to f...k quite a lot of people, if you apply that to
everyone, who deserves it.
No, not Zuckowski: GEMA is the problem. Some say, GEMA is the most
aggressive and reactionary PRO in the west. musician: be with us or be nothing. And they do not
ask Zuckowski or any
of their members before they sue a kindergarden, a hospital or a social
youth club.
That's the problem with collecting societies, say someone wanted to
'donate' their song for a cause, occasion (e.g. children in
kindergarten) etc. they can't if it's registered with a collecting
society and the work is.
Lorenzo.
Well I payed much money to the GEMA when buying empty tapes, CDs etc.
that were used for my own compositions! Later I bought data tapes
instead of "normal empty" DAT tapes "for music", because they were
even not half as expensive. The GEMA is a mafia.
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1 Dec
1 Dec
12:26 p.m.
Hi Vytautas!
Nothing against originality as such, but not just for its own sake. I think
Louigi wasn't advertising ripping othe people of or just making yourself a
copycat, but being allowed to take things, to learn from others, use a good
sound from someone else, if you feel, that it's absolutely the right thing for
you and your piece.
As for reusing themes: it has certainly been done in the baroque era and
probably before that and after that time. I find, that I sometimes enjoyd it
very much, exactly because the musicians made those tunes their own.
So there's a point for both, though probably not both from the same musician
at the same time, if you feel the need for it. Well if you were doing so, you
could as well form a cover band and be happy with that. Nothing dispicable
about that either, if it is done well. :-)
Best wishes
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
12:21 p.m.
Hello Louigi!
I'm glad, that this hasn't taken hold everywhere, the mentality of
originality for originality's sake. I think quite a few prog bands at least
openly admit being influenced by others and you can definitely hear it. In
arrangements, some phrasing or the way in which they play a certain
instrument.
I'm certainly not ashamed of being heavily influenced by the Flower Kings,
striving sometimes to immitate their arrangments or arrangement techniques,
for they sound superb to me and my taste of music. :-)
Warmly yours
Julien
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Such Is Life: Very Intensely Adorable;
Free And Jubilating Amazement Revels, Dancing On - FLOWERS!
====== Find my music at ======
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
.....................................
"If you live to be 100, I hope I live to be 100 minus 1 day,
so I never have to live without you." (Winnie the Pooh)
12:43 p.m.
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 11:15:50 +0300
Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I second what Ralf says.
There is a nice Russian article on the subject. Shortly speaking, it
is about the fact that art has always been standing on other artists'
shoulders. But now such a stance is denied to artists and it is
sometimes even deemed shameful if you are using synth presets,
instead of coming up with your own. So the article speaks of how the
cult of originality has toned down creativity and that songwriters
spend too much time trying to make original presets and arrangements
instead of writing songs and how much time is spent in doing
something original just for the sake of originality.
I am very much with what the author says. I do not see a problem with
anyone using another composer's melody. In fact, isn't this is what
composers write songs for, so that people can play and sing them?
Indeed, economical thinking has distorted perception of art greatly
with this concept of originality.
Hi Louigi, I too like very much what you've written and couldn't agree
more.
I believe that imitation is at the basis of every art, and it should
not only be allowed, but encouraged. Of course I'm not talking about
plagiarism - that one does it only to become popular, but it doesn't do
it to express himself (which is what art is about).
cheers
renato
2 Dec
2 Dec
11:56 a.m.
Am 01.12.2011 09:15, schrieb Louigi Verona:
I second what Ralf says.
There is a nice Russian article on the subject. Shortly speaking, it is
about the fact that art has always been standing on other artists'
shoulders. But now such a stance is denied to artists and it is sometimes
even deemed shameful if you are using synth presets, instead of coming up
with your own. So the article speaks of how the cult of originality has
toned down creativity and that songwriters spend too much time trying to
make original presets and arrangements instead of writing songs and how
much time is spent in doing something original just for the sake of
originality.
I am very much with what the author says. I do not see a problem with
anyone using another composer's melody. In fact, isn't this is what
composers write songs for, so that people can play and sing them?
To cite someone elses work is a most important technique in arts.
Beginning with a simple parody up to zeniths like Mahlers variations on
a theme from Bach and Charles Mingus playing american songbook standards.
Indeed, economical thinking has distorted perception of art greatly with
this concept of originality.
Its economics, indeed. And it is NOT originality or authorship as a
wrong concept. If I cite/adapt someone, I keep my listeners informed
that I do -- that is a matter of respect for me. Andi it does not
diminish my own part of the work at all.
The problem is: if there is someone, that wants to cash in for a
citation, many musicians dump respect for the original authors simply to
avoid weasel-bites.
Longer sampling can be and covers are another matter: as soon as you
make money with a piece building upon long samples or that you cover,
you should pay a share to the original authors/producers.
best regards
HZN
Cheers!
Louigi.
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12:06 p.m.
"as soon as you make money with a piece building upon long samples or that
you cover, you should pay a share to the original authors/producers"
would not agree with that, tbh. sounds like lawful jealousy!
in my view, you CAN pay a share, if you want to, but you should not be
obliged to do that.
I understand that some or even many people might not agree with me on that
one. But I also wonder how much of that disagreement
would come from actual analysis and how much from just the stereotype that
if you "use someone else's stuff to make money, you now owe them too".
The concept of royalties is something I could never justify. A "royalties"
concept is something I have never been comfortable with, as it has either a
tendency to overpay or else pressure not to use the work.
Just my 2 cents.
*(I will not be debating this here, so as not to turn yet another great LAU
topic into a copyright discussion. Anyone interested can proceed to my site
or write me a personal email.)*
Louigi.
http://www.louigiverona.ru/
1 Dec
1 Dec
8:42 a.m.
On 12/01/2011 07:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
The answer is, that musicians don't care about it,
just untalented
assholes even sue their own fans. Metallica!
Something tells me you don't really like Metallica :-)
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk
2 Dec
2 Dec
12:03 p.m.
Am 01.12.2011 09:41, schrieb Atte André Jensen:
On 12/01/2011 07:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
Its politics:
Metallica are well known for their lawsuits against fans for copying
beginning in the 90ies. Others do the same but are less known and/or do
not look that evil as Ulrich and Hetfield.
I think they are not untalented at all. They made great, innovative,
powerful rock-music. Building on riffs published by Black Sabbath in the
1970ies Metallica have formulated new styles of playing rock-music....
In the recent century they have turned into some boring, self-repeating,
plastic-replacements for a real metal-band but that is another matter.
best regards
HZN
The answer is, that musicians don't care
about it, just untalented
assholes even sue their own fans. Metallica!
Something tells me you don't really like Metallica :-)
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14 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Atte André Jensen -
Hartmut Noack -
Julien Claassen -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Louigi Verona -
Ralf Mardorf -
Renato -
Vytautas Jancauskas