23 Sep
2009
23 Sep
'09
4:27 p.m.
Hello all,
A number of system here, including the ones at the Casa
del Suono are to be upgraded in the coming weeks.
At the moment they all run Fedora 8, so the first choice
would be to go for Fedora 11. But:
* None of them will run Gnome or KDE.
* Most will be headless anyaway.
* I want access/privilege control to be based on
user and group ID and nothing else. Privileges
will never depend on the user having a local
login or desktop session.
* I'm prepared to have to spend some time configuring
udev, pam, /etc/fstab etc. etc. etc.
* What I certainly *do not want* is some parallel
access control system that would interfere with
the above, or that could modify/bypass/enhance
in any way what has been configured there.
* I'm *not* really prepared to have to waste any time
reconfiguring the Kit family. Consequently I don't
want to see any of them.
So what distro should I go for ? Having to spend weeks
compiling everything from source is not an option.
Anyone able to point in the right direction will receive
my eternal gratitude which could be expressed in quantities
of fine Italian food and drinks if the occasion arises.
Ciao,
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
4:50 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 07:30:27PM +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:
Do they have a ready-to-use RT kernel ?
Ciao,
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
So what distro
should I go for ?
Sounds like Arch is worth a look. 
5:21 p.m.
Am Wed, 23. Sep 2009 um 20:26:03 +0200 schrieb Fons Adriaensen:
Hello all,
Hi Fons,
So what distro should I go for ? Having to spend
weeks
compiling everything from source is not an option.
what about CentOS 5 with the CCRMA extensions:
<http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/installplanetcentosfive.html>
CentOS is not that type of rapidly moving target like Fedora but with
equal administration tools. This would also honor Fernandos efforts.
Anyone able to point in the right direction will
receive
my eternal gratitude which could be expressed in quantities
of fine Italian food and drinks if the occasion arises.
Sounds attractive, Parma is not too far away.
Guido
--
http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/
http://www.lug-burghausen.org/
5:57 p.m.
Fons Adriaensen wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 07:30:27PM +0100, Chris Cannam
wrote:
Do they have a ready-to-use RT kernel ?
Ciao,
I don't think so,
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernel_Patches_and_Patchsets#-rt,
but Arch and Sidux seems to be popular for people with similar needs as
yours.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
So what
distro should I go for ?
Sounds like Arch is worth a look.
7:05 p.m.
On September 23, 2009 02:26:03 pm Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Hello all,
A number of system here, including the ones at the Casa
del Suono are to be upgraded in the coming weeks.
At the moment they all run Fedora 8, so the first choice
would be to go for Fedora 11. But:
* None of them will run Gnome or KDE.
* Most will be headless anyaway.
* I want access/privilege control to be based on
user and group ID and nothing else. Privileges
will never depend on the user having a local
login or desktop session.
* I'm prepared to have to spend some time configuring
udev, pam, /etc/fstab etc. etc. etc.
* What I certainly *do not want* is some parallel
access control system that would interfere with
the above, or that could modify/bypass/enhance
in any way what has been configured there.
* I'm *not* really prepared to have to waste any time
reconfiguring the Kit family. Consequently I don't
want to see any of them.
So what distro should I go for ? Having to spend weeks
compiling everything from source is not an option.
If you look at the distro list at http://www.linux.org you can see
a number of potential candidates (Power User distros).
From a first glance a few seem possible to me: Slackware, CERN linux, CentOS
(RHEL-based), Scientific Linux (RHEL-based), 64 Studio, amongst others. Which
of them has a stock rt kernel is a good question (which general/regular
distros have an easily accessible rt kernel?).
Good luck.
Raymond
7:05 p.m.
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:49:33 +0200
Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 07:30:27PM +0100, Chris Cannam
wrote:
Do they have a ready-to-use RT kernel ?
Ciao,
There is a buildscript for one as well as a separate binary repository
including a binary rt kernel.
Currently it's already .31-rt that's being tested.
I do have consolekit here tough.
The beauty of Arch Linux is:
- Emphasis on simplicity, don't hide how stuff works, etc. see:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
- The base system is minimal
- Official binary repositories are available, including most popular
applications
- Applications in the repositories are very recent versions due to a
rolling release model
- Everything in the official repositories can be rebuilt easily,
using the same scripts that were used to build the official package
(ABS). Very useful if you want to have other compiletime options or do
optimisations (everything is compiled for i686/x86_64 by default).
- Almost anything that's not in the official repositories can be found
in a user maintained buildscript repository (AUR).
- There's a growing external buildscript/binary repository for audio
applications (archaudio.org)
Sure there are drawbacks
- Arch patches as little as possible, there are no security updates
unless upstream fixes it and provides a new version
- Rolling release model can break stuff
- very recent versions of software can break stuff
I hope I didn't forget anything important.
The arch wiki is an o.k. resource to get an overview and
general information, or just ask here or on an Arch Linux mailinglist.
Regards,
Philipp
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
So what
distro should I go for ?
Sounds like Arch is worth a look. 
8:15 p.m.
Indeed, sounds like Arch. And it's not a bad thing that you can't fall back
to older versions if you keep the cache. I mean in this age of cheap
storage, who wouldn't?
About the rt kernel, I don't think it'll ever be maintained in the official
repos. But at the same time, a lot of good packages will not either. That is
why we have the AUR, and third-party binary repositories. If you see faults
or would like something added with regards to rt/kernel/audio packages, do
chat with the archaudio guys.
But if you feel you have grown accustomed to Red Hat or Debian systems, then
go for one of the other suggestions here. Arch has got a BSD-style init; 1
file for runlevel config (inittab), 1 file for global config (rc.conf), 1
dir for init scripts (rc.d), 1 dir for optional init scripts config
(conf.d). As such, it's simpler to administer and maintain without having to
go through a maze of symlinking.
9:34 p.m.
On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:15:36 +0800
Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Indeed, sounds like Arch. And it's not a bad thing
that you can't
fall back to older versions if you keep the cache. I mean in this age
of cheap storage, who wouldn't?
About the rt kernel, I don't think it'll ever be maintained in the
official repos. But at the same time, a lot of good packages will not
either. That is why we have the AUR, and third-party binary
repositories. If you see faults or would like something added with
regards to rt/kernel/audio packages, do chat with the archaudio guys.
But if you feel you have grown accustomed to Red Hat or Debian
systems, then go for one of the other suggestions here. Arch has got
a BSD-style init; 1 file for runlevel config (inittab), 1 file for
global config (rc.conf), 1 dir for init scripts (rc.d), 1 dir for
optional init scripts config (conf.d). As such, it's simpler to
administer and maintain without having to go through a maze of
symlinking.
Oh, yeah, this brings me to a point that I forgot to mention previously:
The package management tool, pacman, is really just that. It doesn't do
any system administration for you, you have to do that yourself.
This is mainly merging of config files and somesuch, it hasn't been a
lot of trouble for me so far.
For really big changes that affect many there's some advisory on the
website and on some ML, but that's it, so it's a good idea to check
that before doing updates.
About the rt kernels:
We don't have as much experience as Fernando, so the rt kernels
are probably not as tuned yet, but since it's trivial to make config
changes and compile/install kernels that could change quickly. The
current rt kernels are based on the vanilla kernels and unpatched
(except for some ATI graphics compatibility), which is a little plus I
guess.
Well, that's all I can think of for now.
Hope that helps,
Philipp
10:05 p.m.
2009/9/24 <hollunder(a)gmx.at>
About the rt kernels:
We don't have as much experience as Fernando, so the rt kernels
are probably not as tuned yet, but since it's trivial to make config
changes and compile/install kernels that could change quickly. The
current rt kernels are based on the vanilla kernels and unpatched
(except for some ATI graphics compatibility), which is a little plus I
guess.
Uhmm no. That is a decision we made to keep in sync with KISS, while less is
definitely better in the case of kernels. We patch only as needed, and all
ammendments against the stock kernel are documented in the changelogs.
Practically, there are no further "tunables" aside from removing unneeded
options and modules. Some users probably already have their own tried and
tested config for that, since most prefer to optimise for their machines
anyway.
12 Oct
12 Oct
3:17 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 07:30:27PM +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:
Sounds like Arch is worth a look.
First of all (a late) thanks to all who responded.
Today I installed ArchLinux on a spare box, and it
went very well. It took me around 1/3 of the time
(compared to a previous F11 install) to get the
machine how I wanted it. I just had to adapt to
having to install things I wanted rather than
having to remove or modify those I didn't want.
From power-on to the XDM login takes just 24s,
and the hard disk footprint is a fraction of what
I'm used to.
There's only only problem I've not been able to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Ciao,
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
13 Oct
13 Oct
4:34 a.m.
On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:14:01 +0200
Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 07:30:27PM +0100, Chris Cannam
wrote:
Glad to hear that it's going well so far.
Sounds like Arch is worth a look.
First of all (a late) thanks to all who responded.
Today I installed ArchLinux on a spare box, and it
went very well. It took me around 1/3 of the time
(compared to a previous F11 install) to get the
machine how I wanted it. I just had to adapt to
having to install things I wanted rather than
having to remove or modify those I didn't want.
From power-on to the XDM login takes just 24s,
and the hard disk footprint is a fraction of what
I'm used to. There's only only problem I've not been able
to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Ciao,
I haven't heard of that problem, and I'm using the nvidia nv driver
myself.
I recommend asking on arch-general or some other general list.
They are usually nice and helpful (while IRC often is a bit
rude).
Regards,
Philipp
11:05 a.m.
On October 12, 2009 01:14:01 pm Fons Adriaensen wrote:
There's only only problem I've not been able to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Just another one of the usual X problems at install time.
More information needed to drill down to the root of the problem.
Both ATI (and NVidia) have some components in their own proprietary drivers
for X11 that are not supported 100% in the Xorg versions. Which version
are you using? Which ATI model? Older vs.newer hardware having better support
in one or the other driver version.
Have you used this hardware with X before and have an Xorg.conf for it
somewhere (or remember the setup)?
Since X is pretty modular now, you could have a mismatch in one of
a number of packages for X, not necessarily the ATI module itself.
How about running a Linux live CD/DVD on that system with a distro
that does not display this behavior. Once you find one that works
correctly, just check the info for what is loaded, running, its Xorg.conf,
etc. and replicate it to see if the problem goes away.
Regards,
-R
12:49 p.m.
2009/10/13 Fons Adriaensen <fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
There's only only problem I've not been able
to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Is this xf86-video-ati? What card is this? In case you missed it:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#There_are_2_different_open-source_A…
.
Sounds like a bug to me..especially since KMS is enabled by default.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#AMD.2FAti_cards_and_KernelModeSetti…
12:52 p.m.
2009/10/13 Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com>
2009/10/13 Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
Oh yeah and always troubleshoot with hotplugging enabled first, i.e no xorg
config and yes hal.
There's only only problem I've not been
able to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Is this xf86-video-ati? What card is this? In case you missed it:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#There_are_2_different_open-source_A…
.
Sounds like a bug to me..especially since KMS is enabled by default.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#AMD.2FAti_cards_and_KernelModeSetti…
1:59 p.m.
Hello Ray and Raymond,
Thanks for your responses.
2009/10/13 Fons Adriaensen
<fons(a)kokkinizita.net>
[Ray]
There's only only problem I've not been
able to fix:
when using apps that frequently update pixmaps or
send Ximages, the mouse pointer gets corrupted with
that data. It happens with Ardour, jkmeter, japa,
and others. No idea where to start... Driver is
the 'ati' module, probably it needs some parameters.
Is this xf86-video-ati? What card is this? In case you
missed it:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#There_are_2_different_open-source_A…
Sounds like a bug to me..especially since KMS is enabled by default.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI#AMD.2FAti_cards_and_KernelModeSetti…
The card is ATI Technologies Inc RV370 [Radeon X300SE],
the driver is the -ati one.
Somehow the problem seems to have solved itself. I've
been using the machine all day, rebooted a few times to
see if that would make a difference, but everyhting just
works... :-)
There's no xorg.conf, and input devices are from hal.
Errors in the log file are:
(EE) Failed to load module "vesa" (module does not exist, 0)
(EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0)
and more insteresting:
(EE) RADEON(0): [dri] RADEONDRIGetVersion failed because of a version mismatch.
[dri] radeon kernel module version is 2.0.0 but version 1.17.0 or newer is needed.
[dri] Disabling DRI.
[Raymond]
How about running a Linux live CD/DVD on that system
with a distro
that does not display this behavior. Once you find one that works
correctly, just check the info for what is loaded, running, its Xorg.conf,
etc. and replicate it to see if the problem goes away.
Seems like an excellent idea in case the problem returns.
Overall I'm *very happy* with ArchLinux so far. Almost
everything I need is installed now, and I'm only at
2.7G disk space used. Next weekend the laptop (IBM R51)
will get the same refreshing treatment.
Ciao,
--
FA
5320
days inactive
5340
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
15 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Cannam -
Fons Adriaensen -
Guido Scholz -
hollunder＠gmx.at -
Ralf Mardorf -
Ray Rashif -
Raymond Martin