29 Dec
2009
29 Dec
'09
4:55 a.m.
Basically every toolkit out there has widgets fader, button, knob.
So one you usually only has to reimplement the paint method in order to
change the appearance or write a different style.
If you prefer a toolkit independent gui library you could use my stripped
down version of the vstgui lib, which uses cairo as the drawing backend.
Together with skinman and knobman, the two widely used windows programs
for generating nice vst guis (running fine in wine) you have basically
the same
toolchain as the windows vst devs.
Drumfix
PS: Linux Vst developers, please write VST compliant code.
The interface of effEditOpen is effEditOpen(void *), not
effEditOpen(void *, void *)
i.o.w hosts should send a pointer to a struct {Display *d; Window w;} in
(ptr) instead
of Display * (val) and Window (ptr)
29 Dec
29 Dec
5:05 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
Aside from that, we have to forget about everything that has anything
to do with GTK+. None of what you look forward to is even remotely
possible with the examples and advice given so far (I mean just one
look at libphat is..urghhh just another gtk design).
Flashy and elegant is Qt's forte, because LMMS has done it. Your
resulting app can be simple, good-looking, skinnable. There's EFL, but
no-one knows whether it's even usable for multimedia.
5:20 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 05:05:01PM +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
Aside from that, we have to forget about everything
that has anything
to do with GTK+. None of what you look forward to is even remotely
possible with the examples and advice given so far (I mean just one
look at libphat is..urghhh just another gtk design).
Flashy and elegant is Qt's forte, because LMMS has done it. Your
resulting app can be simple, good-looking, skinnable. There's EFL, but
no-one knows whether it's even usable for multimedia.
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots.
--
torben Hohn
5:27 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
2009/12/29 torbenh <torbenh(a)gmx.de>de>:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 05:05:01PM +0800, Ray Rashif
wrote:
No Torben, that included a comparison because I noted what the poster
was looking for. Nothing more, nothing less. The poster is educated,
so we should have no problems with "flamewars". Sorry if it sounded as
such, will use better phrasing next time.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
Aside from that, we have to forget about
everything that has anything
to do with GTK+. None of what you look forward to is even remotely
possible with the examples and advice given so far (I mean just one
look at libphat is..urghhh just another gtk design).
Flashy and elegant is Qt's forte, because LMMS has done it. Your
resulting app can be simple, good-looking, skinnable. There's EFL, but
no-one knows whether it's even usable for multimedia.
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots. 
7:50 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
Actually, there is no need to label any discussion a flame war. I see no
aggression here,
in fact, how else one would know what other people think. It is interesting
and also helpful
to see different opinions.
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2009/12/29 torbenh <torbenh(a)gmx.de>de>:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 05:05:01PM +0800, Ray
Rashif wrote:
No Torben, that included a comparison because I noted what the poster
was looking for. Nothing more, nothing less. The poster is educated,
so we should have no problems with "flamewars". Sorry if it sounded as
such, will use better phrasing next time.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Aside from that, we have to forget about
everything that has anything
to do with GTK+. None of what you look forward to is even remotely
possible with the examples and advice given so far (I mean just one
look at libphat is..urghhh just another gtk design).
Flashy and elegant is Qt's forte, because LMMS has done it. Your
resulting app can be simple, good-looking, skinnable. There's EFL, but
no-one knows whether it's even usable for multimedia.
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots. 
9:56 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tuesday, December 29, 2009, torbenh wrote:
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots.
So, I must ask for permission to the high priests before naming my library,
but you can freely insult to everybody not sharing your faith ?
BTW, many applications made with GTK are ugly for my taste, and I have also
technical complains against it.
Regards,
Pedro
10:57 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
2009/12/29 Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas <pedro.lopez.cabanillas(a)gmail.com>om>:
On Tuesday, December 29, 2009, torbenh wrote:
Qt has some technical shortcomings as well, but the author doesn't
intend to discuss anything other than appearance from what I can
understand.
So hold your horses, something's up. Where? Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;hb=…
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots.
So, I must ask for permission to the high priests before naming my library,
but you can freely insult to everybody not sharing your faith ?
BTW, many applications made with GTK are ugly for my taste, and I have also
technical complains against it. 
11:01 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On 12/30/2009 01:57 AM, Ray Rashif wrote:
2009/12/29 Pedro
Lopez-Cabanillas<pedro.lopez.cabanillas(a)gmail.com>om>:
Stock standard gtk may have it's short comings but anything that can be
done with the gimp can also be done in gtk so it's just a matter of
putting in the effort and having an aesthetic for that kind of thing.
Working with alpha layers in cairo and drawing your own fonts in pango
can make a huge difference.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Tuesday, December 29, 2009, torbenh wrote:
Qt has some technical shortcomings as well, but the author doesn't
intend to discuss anything other than appearance from what I can
understand.
So hold your horses, something's up. Where? Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;hb=…
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots.
So, I must ask for permission to the high priests before naming my
library,
but you can freely insult to everybody not sharing your faith ?
BTW, many applications made with GTK are ugly for my taste, and I have also
technical complains against it.
12:35 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 22:57 +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
So hold your horses, something's up. Where? Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;hb=…
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
1:27 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 17:35:30 Peter Nelson wrote:
On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 22:57 +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
And pixel-based guis are _so_ last century.
When you want good guis, that is usable and scalable and good looking, its not
about doing in gui what you do in gimp, but doing in gui what you do in
inkscape...
Arnold
So hold your horses, something's up. Where?
Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;h
b=20a7d0fb06da3c6c48738e4521f24700c5adaf01
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
2:39 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
2009/12/30 Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de>de>:
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 17:35:30 Peter Nelson
wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 22:57 +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
> > So hold your horses, something's up. Where? Here:
> > http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;h
> >b=20a7d0fb06da3c6c48738e4521f24700c5adaf01
> >
> > And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
> >
> > 5/5 :O
>
> Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
> 100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
I guess this is where it becomes "personal preference". Although I'm
short on real estate myself on a 1280x800, design is where I make an
exception, especially when a GUI is trying to represent a particular
physical gear.
And pixel-based guis are _so_ last century.
When you want good guis, that is usable and scalable and good looking, its not
about doing in gui what you do in gimp, but doing in gui what you do in
inkscape...
Definitely, I would love to see that practised en masse.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
30 Dec
30 Dec
2:20 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
2009/12/29 Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de>de>:
I disagree.
1. rendering complex SVGs can be very time-consuming
2. scaled SVG can look worse than scaled px graphics (depends on
design, renderer)
3. some graphic-effects cannot (yet) be achieved with vector graphics
(think of all the gimp plugins..., photo realism)
SVG has benefits for some areas,
but it is not a replacement for pixel art.
Two can have different opinions about a certain design,
but should not be against design as a process of thinking about
beauty, attraction and usability.
Even the CML is a kind of design, if you want to see it as that...
neither the worst, nor the best.
In software, usability has priority over beauty (usually).
IMO, the screws are totally acceptable here, as design elements,
since they don't prevent usability nor introduce optical overload.
Possible interpretation:
The screws add imaginary value, by offering the user something known,
"real", by pretending materiality.
If we only did the necessary, our world would look poor -- ?
--
E.R.
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
And pixel-based guis are _so_ last century.
When you want good guis, that is usable and scalable and good looking, its not
about doing in gui what you do in gimp, but doing in gui what you do in
inkscape...
2:35 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:20 PM, Emanuel Rumpf <xbran(a)web.de> wrote:
2009/12/29 Arnold Krille
<arnold(a)arnoldarts.de>de>:
I disagree.
1. rendering complex SVGs can be very time-consuming
2. scaled SVG can look worse than scaled px graphics (depends on
design, renderer)
3. some graphic-effects cannot (yet) be achieved with vector graphics
(think of all the gimp plugins..., photo realism)
SVG has benefits for some areas,
but it is not a replacement for pixel art.
Two can have different opinions about a certain design,
but should not be against design as a process of thinking about
beauty, attraction and usability.
Even the CML is a kind of design, if you want to see it as that...
neither the worst, nor the best.
In software, usability has priority over beauty (usually).
IMO, the screws are totally acceptable here, as design elements,
since they don't prevent usability nor introduce optical overload.
Possible interpretation:
The screws add imaginary value, by offering the user something known,
"real", by pretending materiality.
If we only did the necessary, our world would look poor -- ?
--
E.R.
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Taking a step back here, i think this a good effort, and a long way
forward of where we've been.
I don't really care where the screws are, the controls are clear and
distinct, and understandable.
As always, those who can critique from an experienced skillset have
the opportunity to contribute their own ideas.
The de-esser looks good.
As a long time, full time, user of audio apps and plugins in the
commercial environment before i got to linux, i've seen plenty of
plugins that are far worse looking than the de-esser pic, and were
really crap to use as well, with functionality a distant second to
what seemd a quest for poor design, slathered in flourescent rubbish.
A bit of perspective.
Nice effort.
I'd only add my usual workflow mantra, that all controls be
keybindable, and where possible midi CC message assignable, to use
from a control surface, or midi keyboard controller with midi cc
assignable knobs and buttons.
Alex.
--
www.openoctave.org
midi-subscribe(a)openoctave.org
development-subscribe(a)openoctave.org
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
And pixel-based guis are _so_ last century.
When you want good guis, that is usable and scalable and good looking, its not
about doing in gui what you do in gimp, but doing in gui what you do in
inkscape...
2 Jan
2 Jan
12:55 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
Am 29.12.2009 19:27, schrieb Arnold Krille:
On Tuesday 29 December 2009 17:35:30 Peter Nelson
wrote:
fyi, the calf uis are still scaleable.
Stefan
On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 22:57 +0800, Ray Rashif
wrote:
And pixel-based guis are _so_ last century. So hold your horses, something's up. Where?
Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;h
b=20a7d0fb06da3c6c48738e4521f24700c5adaf01
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either.
When you want good guis, that is usable and scalable and good looking, its not
about doing in gui what you do in gimp, but doing in gui what you do in
inkscape...
Arnold
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
29 Dec
29 Dec
2:08 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tuesday 29 December 2009, Peter Nelson wrote:
On Tue, 2009-12-29 at 22:57 +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
On a crowded audio workstation screen, the attempt at a 4/3 ratio for the
curve display seems to be a bit of overfill too. So I agree with the screws
comment, real estate for the vitals only please. I would rather see that
curve section shrink 50 pixels in favor of making that row of teeny knobs
easier to grab. Or better yet make them horizontal sliders.
But I do have to admit its 'purty' , very nice imagery, so congratulations on
the composition. ;)
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
When a fly lands on the ceiling, does it do a half roll or a half loop?
So hold your horses, something's up. Where?
Here:
http://calf.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=calf/calf;a=tree;f=gui;h
b=20a7d0fb06da3c6c48738e4521f24700c5adaf01
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
5/5 :O
Very shiny. However, pretty useless as far as screen real-estate goes.
100 or so pixels either side for 'screws' is not necessary either. 
30 Dec
30 Dec
3:11 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com> wrote:
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
Boy would I like to generate something like that from a FAUST description.. :)
Steve
31 Dec
31 Dec
8:23 a.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
Am Mittwoch, den 30.12.2009, 14:11 -0500 schrieb Stephen Sinclair:
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Ray Rashif
<schivmeister(a)gmail.com> wrote:
not direct like that, but this one is a heavy reworked FAUST file, witch
I guess could easy implemented in the faust distribution to build "nice"
Gtk interfaces.
http://guitarix.sourceforge.net/guitarix_064.png
regards hermann
And someone leaked this: http://foltman.com/Deesser.png
Boy would I like to generate something like that from a FAUST description.. :)
Steve 
29 Dec
29 Dec
6:31 p.m.
New subject: GUI for audio application
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 02:56:25PM +0100, Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas wrote:
On Tuesday, December 29, 2009, torbenh wrote:
consider yourself insulted now.
--
torben Hohn
what is this ? gui flamewars ?
idiots.
So, I must ask for permission to the high priests before naming my library,
but you can freely insult to everybody not sharing your faith ?
BTW, many applications made with GTK are ugly for my taste, and I have also
technical complains against it.
5389
days inactive
5393
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
17 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
alex stone -
Arnold Krille -
Emanuel Rumpf -
Gene Heskett -
hermann -
Louigi Verona -
Patrick Shirkey -
Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas -
Peter Nelson -
Ralf Beck -
Ray Rashif -
Stefan Kost -
Stephen Sinclair -
torbenh