9 Dec
2012
9 Dec
'12
11:29 p.m.
Hello everyone!
I've got a question about MIDI controller handling in software. I heard,
that MIDI CCs 32-63 have special meaning, or are used as part of 14-bit
controllers or something. Now I have a synth, which submits those. I'm sure,
that other people might also have such devices and, that some software delas
with them as the maufactureres intended?
What to do about them/ Is there a way to distinguish between a normal 7-bit
CC 34 and such a CC in a 14-bit environment.
The following page explains the dilemma:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jgglatt/tech/midispec/ctllist.htm
My problem is, that the sequencer I'm using, ignores all those CCs and thus
my recorded performance is lacking in expressiveness.
Warm regards
Julien
----------------------------------------
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
10 Dec
10 Dec
12:07 a.m.
On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Julien Claassen <julien(a)mail.upb.de> wrote:
Hello everyone!
I've got a question about MIDI controller handling in software. I heard,
that MIDI CCs 32-63 have special meaning,
they are advisory only.
or are used as part of 14-bit controllers or
something. Now I have a
synth, which submits those. I'm sure, that other people might also have
such devices and, that some software delas with them as the maufactureres
intended?
What to do about them/ Is there a way to distinguish between a normal
7-bit CC 34 and such a CC in a 14-bit environment.
there is not, unless you ever receive the "other half" of the message.
The following page explains the dilemma:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~**jgglatt/tech/midispec/ctllist.**htm<http:/…
My problem is, that the sequencer I'm using, ignores all those CCs and
thus my recorded performance is lacking in expressiveness.
Warm regards
Julien
------------------------------**----------
http://juliencoder.de/nama/**music.html<http://juliencoder.de/nama/music…
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6:47 a.m.
Morning Paul!
So how do you deal with theses issues in Ardour3? I think you have more
advanced MIDI support these days?
Kind regards
Julien
----------------------------------------
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
11:53 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Julien Claassen <julien(a)mail.upb.de> wrote:
Morning Paul!
So how do you deal with theses issues in Ardour3? I think you have more
advanced MIDI support these days?
http://ardour.org/a3_features_midi_binding_maps
http://ardour.org/generic_midi_control
basically, we don't deal with it at present. 14 bit MIDI controllers were
misdesigned from the beginning and completely correct handling of them is
pretty hard to do efficiently on a general purpose OS.
but there really isn't much of an issue here. ardour has no builtin
handling of any MIDI CC message - what a given message does is defined
either by a user binding or a binding map.
12:44 p.m.
[Julien Claassen]
I've got a question about MIDI controller
handling in software. I heard, that
MIDI CCs 32-63 have special meaning, or are used as part of 14-bit controllers
or something. Now I have a synth, which submits those. I'm sure, that other
people might also have such devices and, that some software delas with them as
the maufactureres intended?
To know what the manufacturers intended, I guess you'd have to ask
them, or purchase the official MIDI spec from midi.org (print copies
only!), hope it answers the question and hope that the manufacturer of
your synth read and implemented the same spec.
Alternatively, a viable approach that seems perfectly in spirit with
MIDI's old-style nature is to assume local state for the LSB/MSB pair
is always valid and casually update it with data right as it is
received, no matter which half.
(A possible refinement might update the LSB along with a freshly
received MSB: if the new MSB is lower than the stored state, set the
LSB to 7f and to 0 otherwise. This way, your complete value will not
jump back and forth if you receive a mix of MSB and LSB. You lose an
LSB worth of adjustment range if no LSB is ever transmitted though, so
to refine it further you might turn on this LSB interpolation only
after you actually receive one.)
Cheers, Tim
12:58 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Tim Goetze <tim(a)quitte.de> wrote:
[Julien Claassen]
it doesn't.. i have a copy. what it does do is to specify a broken design
in which only a timeout can determine if both the LSB and MSB are going to
be received, or just one of them.
I've got a question about MIDI controller
handling in software. I
heard, that
MIDI CCs 32-63 have special meaning, or are used
as part of 14-bit
controllers
or something. Now I have a synth, which submits
those. I'm sure, that
other
people might also have such devices and, that
some software delas with
them as
the maufactureres intended?
To know what the manufacturers intended, I guess you'd have to ask
them, or purchase the official MIDI spec from midi.org (print copies
only!), hope it answers the question and hope that the manufacturer of
your synth read and implemented the same spec.
2:38 p.m.
[Paul Davis]
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Tim Goetze
<tim(a)quitte.de> wrote:
What a lovely solution, combining awkward implementation and
additional latency! Makes me (once more) suspect they make that spec
hard to get because they're ashamed of it.
To know what the manufacturers intended, I guess
you'd have to ask
them, or purchase the official MIDI spec from midi.org (print copies
only!), hope it answers the question and hope that the manufacturer of
your synth read and implemented the same spec.
it doesn't.. i have a copy. what it does do is to specify a broken design
in which only a timeout can determine if both the LSB and MSB are going to
be received, or just one of them.
4:03 p.m.
Hello Paul and Tim!
Thank you for your answers. It clarifies a lot. Even though I don't like the
resultant chaos. :-)
If I know, that my synth uses all those not recommended controls and has no
other obvious 14bit controls, could another solution be, to allow these
controls just as any other? Or would that again break something else?
I mapped all the controls from my NordLead3 - and unless there's something
in the very few menu features, which wouldn't be part of a performance - it's
all 7bit between 1-120. There are enough "holes" in that list, to assume, that
a few very special functions could also be included in that list. :-)
Warm regaqrds and thanks again
Julien
----------------------------------------
http://juliencoder.de/nama/music.html
5:14 p.m.
[Julien Claassen]
If I know, that my synth uses all those not
recommended controls and has no
other obvious 14bit controls, could another solution be, to allow these
controls just as any other? Or would that again break something else?
I mapped all the controls from my NordLead3 - and unless there's something in
the very few menu features, which wouldn't be part of a performance - it's all
7bit between 1-120. There are enough "holes" in that list, to assume, that a
few very special functions could also be included in that list. :-)
I'm not intimate with the Nord Lead3's MIDI implementation. But I'll
guess that a lot of MIDI software is handling all CCs indiscriminately
the same way, MSB or LSB. (In particular, if you do not filter events
and play them back exactly as recorded, there's no need to ever care
about their semantics.) If you do the same and it still sounds good,
you should be fine. :D
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8 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Julien Claassen -
Paul Davis -
Tim Goetze