New subject: Lionstracs. Was: [linux-audio-dev] Re: linuxaudio.org

14 Jan 2004

I thought I'd provide a little dramatisation of what this whole debacle
looks like to me:

<Daniel> LAD_Dude_1: Hey dude, I've got this idea for a group to help
linux audio developers and corporate interests get along better, what do
you think?
<LAD_Dude_1> Daniel: Sounds like a good idea.
<Daniel> LAD_Dude_2: What do you think?
<LAD_Dude_2> Daniel: Aye, sounds good.  Going to need a web site and
mailing list and whatnot tho.
<Daniel> Aye, I'll register linuxaudio.org
<Daniel> Mandrake (TM): You interested?
<Mandrake (TM)> Daniel: Definately
<Marek (overhearing)> Daniel: Hey!  I was going to do that!  You
bastard!
<Marek> LAD_People: HEY! DANIEL'S STARTED A WHOLE LINUX AUDIO
DEVELOPER'S CONSORTIUM WITHOUT CONSULTING ANY OF US!
<LAD_Dude_3> WTF?!
<LAD_Dude_4> What a bastard!
<LAD_Dude_5> How dare you!
<Daniel> Hold on a sec, dudes, it doesn't exist yet.  I haven't even
written a web page!
<LAD_Dude_4> What a bastard!
<LAD_Dude_5> How dare you!

To those shouting "bastard!", I say: chill, for the moment at least.

I also provide below a mail I sent to Joern Nettingsmeier before
christmas.  While Daniel's and my ideas differ somewhat in the necessary
approach; co-operation vs defense, our aim is the same: to help bring
linux audio software out of bedrooms and into studios while maintaining
the freedom of that software.  It's worth noting that whether or not a
party is a corporation or a tree hugging hippy (to epitomise the two
sides of that coin) is irrelevant; the issue is whether or not they
support free software, or the kind of proprietary software that stifles
the communities that have developed around places like the
linux-audio-dev list.  I know plenty of tree hugging hippies that are
more than willing to embrace propietary software, and plenty of
corporations prepared to stand firm on the principles of software
freedom.

The mailing list I wanted to create is one that I expect will come to
exist at linuxaudio.org.  The linuxaudio.org site is only the second
linux audio site I have noted that consistently uses the term "libre" or
"free" instead of "open source" or "linux" software (the
other site
being AGNULA's; and guess which new consortium they're members of) and
that goes some way toward allaying any fears I personally have about the
consortium sucking up to the proprietary software industry.

Anyway, another too-long email to add to the fire, but I hope it might
dampen rather enflame it.

Bob

-----Forwarded Message-----
...
  From: Bob Ham &lt;rah(a)bash.sh&gt;
 To: Joern Nettingsmeier &lt;nettings(a)folkwang-hochschule.de&gt;
 Subject: Re: hosting a free-audio-dev list
 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:08:22 +0000

 On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 08:34, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
  Bob Ham wrote:
  Hi there,

 I was wondering if it would be possible to start a mailing list to
 discuss issues of freedom specifically relating to audio software.  I
 know I feel restricted by something like a taboo about free vs
 proprietary discussions on linux-audio-dev.  I think a place where that
 kind of discussion was encouraged would be beneficial.   
 hmmm. i must confess i'm not sure this is a good idea...
 i don't know why you perceive a taboo on lad to discuss such issues - 
 you are right, this topic is rare, but then, IMNSHO it rarely leads to 
 productive results :)  
 This is the "taboo" that I speak of :)  Ie, the view that wooly issues
 of freedom do little to progress the technical state of the software
 while introducing extra noise.

  my fear with a list like you propose is that it
might become an 
 "advocacy" forum with all kinds of people with not much else to do 
 sounding off about <your favourite licence here> and getting into all 
 kinds of flamewars.  
 And this extends the taboo :)  No, "talking about freedom" does not mean
 discerning the finer points of freedom from the perspectives of GPL and
 BSD licenses (at least, not to me.)  There are plenty of other forums
 for that already, eg slashdot.org.  What I want to talk about is
 Steinberg.  And Apple.  And Microsoft.  And other threats to the free
 audio software community.  For that matter, I want a place where the
 free audio software community can flourish.  For *that* matter, I *want*
 a free audio software community; support for freedom is somewhat soft on
 LAD.  This is the time when it needs to be cemented.  Linux (and free
 software) is moving places and the companies that hang on to the
 proprietary idea will be throwing their own little microsoft-like
 wobblies when the time comes.  A forum that encourages support against
 this can be nothing but a good thing in my eyes. The fact that LAD is
 linux-specific is another issue; freedom is an issue enclosing
 proprietary OSes and free OSes alike.

 To take a crystal example, the GMPI group reflects the need for such a
 community.  As far as I know, there is nobody whose express purpose in
 being involved in GMPI is to represent the interests of software
 freedom.  A place where such advocacy could come from would be a good
 thing IMHO.

   possible
for you host a free-audio-dev list?  
 if more people on the lists share your view and would like to have such 
 a list, certainly.

 although i would prefer something like "linux-audio-freedom" or 
 whatever, to keep things consistent. otoh, if it's not linux and lad 
 community centered, then i think it should be hosted somewhere else  
 The reason for me asking was purely a technical one; you were the first
 person I thought of when I asked "who can host a free audio developers
 list?" :)  Of course, being in close proximity to linux-audio-dev would
 be a plus.  And free-audio-dev is consistent as well :)  Though, if not
 being linux-specific puts you off, I shall ask elsewhere.

 Bob -- 
Bob Ham &lt;rah(a)bash.sh&gt;