I have a bug to report:
We start here:
On 8/15/13, J. Liles <malnourite(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm still not sure I understand the point of bringing this up in the first
> place. At first you sounded like you were announcing that you were giving
> up on participating and maybe even using free software. Now you've
> corrected that, but that just makes the whole thing seem even more
> pointless. Is the purpose only to vent? You say you're not frustrated, but
> honestly I can't see how anything constructive can come out of what is
> essentially complaining combined with inaction. Complaining wihtout
> offering any solutions is about the most useless thing a human being can do
> with their time. If you want to be apathetic, fine, but why announce it in
> public? Life is a struggle. Things are hard. Shit breaks. Technology is
> complicated. Time is short. None of these facts are specific to linux audio
> or even free software. I'm sorry you've had to struggle with technology
> from time to time that was offered to you freely and without waranty.
> Perhaps your time would be better spent seeking out a synthesizer for the
> sound of the world's smallest violin playing just for you.
>
And almost 60 messages later we find the following problem code with
automatic intelligence plugin "J. Liles"
j_liles = AngryDevPlugin.new();
j_liles.feelings_hurt = 1;
j_liles.circular_logic = 1;
---> Oh no! Infinite loop!
Please don't take offense, it's all in good fun! I am not a dev, so
can't possibly have the intelligence or work ethic necessary to
substantiate my joke in any way -- it is obviously empty and useless!
Just like my existence! Long live the developer, the one true hero of
our abject and miserably hopeless world!
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 11:29 PM, Louigi Verona <louigi.verona(a)gmail.com>wrote:
> "You are crying that everything is broken"
> "What I am asking you to do is understand just how subjective your
> situation is."
>
> Dear Jonathan, nowhere in my podcast do I say that "everything is broken"
> or that my situation is objective. I also do not agree that the tone of my
> message is "crying". As a long-time user of Linux Audio who writes lots of
> music, I shared my personal subjective experience and, reflecting on it,
> decided to share it.
>
> What's the problem?
>
In case you haven't noticed statements of a similar sentiment come up a
lot--usually not from the mouths of the most intelligent users either. I
think yours is the first I've really seen in podcast form though. The
problem is that, in aggregate these statements create the impression that
linux audio sucks, even though it doesn't. *My* view on Linux Audio is
pretty positive. Aside from some long standing gripes with parts of the
JACK API, (and as we've been over, some problematic plugins (easy enough to
ignore) everything just works. It doesn't just work by magic, though. I
spent 7 years of my damn life MAKING it work.
You don't think about that when you make your podcast... How hard
*everybody* in this community has worked on your behalf. Even if it weren't
harmful (which it is), it would *still* be at least unproductive, and why
on earth would you want to spend your time being unproductive.
If your desire is to somehow motivate the developers of the software you
use into fixing some bugs, well I have to tell you, it's unlikely to have
that effect. It's just depressing. They might give up.
>
> "It's false and misleading, and it actively harms the community which has
> only benefited you."
>
> I don't think you can speak for the whole community. Some people found my
> message interesting and have supplied helpful comments.
>
I can say what many others are in no position to.
>
> "Does the free-software community benefit from you? Can you seriously
> argue that it does? There is a word for those who benefit without offering
> any positive contribution."
>
> What do you consider to be "positive contribution"? Saying only good
> things?
> Just in case you do not know, I have a range of material dedicated to
> Linux Audio: http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux
>
>
Articles are good--I haven't read the so I'll have to take your word for it
that they are constructive.
> I also believe that promoting the fact that I make my music with Linux is
> a positive contribution, like here:
> http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=music&t=another_reality
>
>
This is not a contribution. It may be good for the ego of either the
musician or the developer whose project is named (I know I get a kick out
of it every time I see my projects listed in such a way), but does nothing
for progress.
My life within Linux Audio is multifaceted. The fact that I said something
> on a podcast that you saw as "crying" does not mean I do not contribute.
> And yeah, Linux sucks:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh-cnaJoGCw
>
>
Look, Louigi, obviously you have a podcast that people are willing to
listen to. If you really want to do something good, then I'm sure you can
find a better way than posting the kind of podcasts you've done recently.
Ralf wrote:
> There's a difference between art and tools released for the public. Art,
excepted of the crap on the radio, should not suit to anything.
Interesting comment, off topic from the original thread so I'll spawn a new
one.
I don't entirely agree that art should not suit to anything. I come to feel
more and more that art doesn't exist without a subculture, and people make
art/music/fashion etc to appeal to one or more subcultures. There are
possible exceptions (Harry Partsch, perhaps) but I'd argue those are
extremely rare.
Many western classical composers in the early twentieth century argued for
"music for its own sake" -- music that captures a glimpse of the Eternal
and thus whose artistic merit transcends human relationships. But of
course, it's all tap-room banter without a community of musicians and
listeners who agree with that idea! So this was just another musical
culture (which sought to pretend that it was beyond culture).
This is, of course, not to say that artists must obey subcultural
expectations and have no autonomy. Most (western) musical subcultures value
surprise (except the aforementioned generic radio pop). I think artistic
autonomy is always in a balance, or tension, with the artist's chosen
scene. One of the decisions an artist has to make is where to position
herself on the continuum between participating in a musical community
(adhering to its standards) and critiquing its norms or expanding the
subculture's boundaries. Many are not aware that this is a choice -- hence
the bands or singers who sound just like everybody else in the genre. But
part of my point is that participating in a musical culture is not "less
than" breaking molds.
All this is from a western perspective, of course. Some non-European
musical cultures (I'm thinking of the amazing music of the Aka pygmies)
seem to place no value at all on individual autonomy in music... that is,
autonomy is not a universal value.
hjh
Thanks Julien & Neil,
I agree that the DnB song is somewhat weird: I couldn't find the exact
thing either.
Neil, your right the dry-up front drums were what I was going for.. still I
find something is strange / lacking.
That said, I've called it "finished" so that's that :)
-Harry
Tonight, falkTX will be the first ever guest to be interviewed on Mumble
Rumble, my show on Dark City Radio, Thursday 15th August @ 10pm GMT!
Dark City Radio is entirely powered by his OS - KXStudio - and we also make
regular use of Cadence and Claudia in running Dark City Radio so having F
as my debut guest makes perfect sense as DC may never have been possible
without him! I shall be quizzing falkTX on KXStudio, DISTRHO, Cadence,
Carla, other girls beginning with C and pretty much anything to do with
Linux (Audio) and himself.
Anyone interested in Linux audio is invited to log onto the Dark City
Mumble server during the show to take part in MUMBLE RUMBLE!
If you've never used Mumble before, see my guide to getting it set up here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_slsSlcUDcY
Thanks for listening (or taking part)!
Dan
www.darkcityradio.com
Just realized I didn't send this to the list.
On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Burkhard Ritter <burkhard(a)ualberta.ca> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:53 AM, J. Liles <malnourite(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> To be clear, I'm not advocating not helping others, I'm simply pointing out
>> the altruistic nature of developers responding to bug reports. The OP makes
>> it seem like he's doing the developer a big favor by engaging in the
>> reporting process--when the truth is that his 15 minute bug report generates
>> hours of work for the developer--that the developer could have most likely
>> lived his entire life without needing to do otherwise. There's an underlying
>> sense of entitlement there that is really toxic to any process of
>> collaboration.
>
> In my experience (as someone who files bug reports only very
> occasionally), doing a good bug report is more on the order of an hour
> or even more. Hence, if I find a bug in a program that I only use once
> in a while, say for three to four hours every two to three weeks (my
> use case for most programs on linux audio), filing this bug is a
> considerable time investment relative to the time I actually use the
> program.
>
> Add to this the mindset of the person you are asking to file the bug
> report: As an example, say you finally got back to making some music
> after three weeks of abstinence; you carve out the time, you spend
> four hours doing some great stuff and then at two in the morning, when
> you are just about to finish things off, you run into a show-stopper
> bug. Some basic issue that "should just work". You are extremely
> frustrated, you know you are not going to get back to doing some music
> in weeks and you are not going to file a bug report. I imagine that's
> one of the situations Louigi is taking about.
>
> Things are probably quite different when it's not a show-stopper bug,
> but a smaller glitch: You finished drafting a song sketch and are very
> happy with the software you used, but encountered a couple of smaller
> issues. Next day you might be inclined to take the time to file the
> bug report.
>
> I am not sure what can be done to improve the situation, but Harry's
> testing-buddies idea seems very reasonable. As a spin on that, a
> dedicated group of "invested" users of some program (even very small
> software projects) could actively test a new version before it is
> released. I am sure this happens to some extent and in different forms
> for most projects, but I am not sure whether there is a conscious
> testing phase and a dedicated group of testers for any but the biggest
> projects (e.g. Ardour). The goal would of course be to not have any
> basic functionality broken in released versions.
>
> Cheers,
> Burkhard
