5 Aug
2009
5 Aug
'09
6:41 a.m.
Hallo,
here's an excellent read about Kim Casone (of .microsound and this list, too)
switching from Mac to Linux:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/04/linux-music-workflow-switching-fro…
(URL in one line)
Great work, Kim!
Ciao
--
Frank
5 Aug
5 Aug
7:19 a.m.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
here's an excellent read about Kim Casone (of .microsound and this list, too)
switching from Mac to Linux:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/04/linux-music-workflow-switching-fro…
(URL in one line)
Great work, Kim!
Ciao
Yes. Very nice article. I was slightly surprised he didn't mention PD
given the Max/MSP angle - it implied the old workflow wasn't possible in
Linux with my quick reading of it. I think that was addressed in the
comments. The Mac fanboi backlash is by turns amusing and irritating but
always unsurprising.
James
11:49 p.m.
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:19 AM, James Stone <jamesmstone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The Mac fanboi backlash is by turns amusing and
irritating but
always unsurprising.
I wonder if I fall into this category nowadays?
I guess its a bit funny if I do;)
Linux audio is a total mess... a normal human being
can't work with pro
Preaching to the choir in most cases I suspect;)
then get off this list and leave us to our playthings. or better yet,
spend time critiquing the current state of the "out of the box"
experience with the people who **actually provide** the out of the
box experience.
Well technically this list did, not to long ago, scare away someone that was
impactful in those sorts of decisions;)
Control what? The source code of an application? Or the kernel? I have very
audio on Linux, unless he/she spent hours and
hours to learn the little
tricks or he has an expert available who helps him...
What is the purpose of telling this mailing list this? limited skills in programming languages - I'm just
an old school music
artist and multimedia designer. On OS X I have full control over my personal
creative workflow. But Linux was controlling me in a way that I have to take
care of lot admin tasks and bugs. Yes the bugs and workarounds on Linux
controlling me and I'm to stupid to fix them all plus write my dream apps.
I'm one of the guys, going into a music store and buy a guitar and not one
of the guy who'd like to build a own. My handcraft is music, not wood.
Control your workflow. I am on OS X now for most of my work, however I
can't set up the same workflow I could on Linux, and what I can do is not
nearly as easy or quick on OS X. I could control my desktop and
applications much smoother and faster with some simple customizations on
Linux than I ever could on OS X. I could tweak the visual aspects much more
easily to that I was happier looking at my screen(Yes I do have a soft spot
for eyecandy, and OS X doesn't come close to filling it).
Seablade
6 Aug
6 Aug
8:43 a.m.
New subject: Kim did the switch to Linux (Warning - going OT!)
Thomas Vecchione wrote:
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:19 AM, James Stone
<jamesmstone(a)gmail.com
<mailto:jamesmstone@gmail.com>> wrote:
The Mac fanboi backlash is by turns amusing and irritating but
always unsurprising.
I wonder if I fall into this category nowadays?
I guess its a bit funny if I do;)
Sorry to disappoint you, but you don't! (at least as far as I can tell
from the comments you made) :p
The people who really fall into this camp (in my opinion) are those who
resort to personal insult when faced with alternating views to their own
(i.e. daring to suggest that something about OS X or the Mac philosophy
in general is not 100% perfect). I bought my first Mac (a Powerbook G4 I
think) about 4-5 years ago now, to great excitement - the feeling I
would be able to break away from the Windows world for my work, the fact
it has a BSD kernel, and Bash installed by default etc. But overall, my
experience has been one of disappointment - performance issues,
compatibility issues, the feeling that I am being forced to do something
against my will because it's the "Mac way" - a small example being that
there is no way to show/hide hidden files in the finder by pressing a
button - you need some arcane command line to show them, then they are
always there until you reverse it from command line... On the British KB
there is not even a # key printed - you have to know that you get it
from pressing alt-3. Also, there is a culture of releasing most
home-grown software as shareware (to a much greater extent than in the
MS camp it seems to me). The only reason the laptop still has OSX
installed at all is that I need it for Endnote for my writing of
papers.. otherwise I would have switched to Debian ages ago. Pretty much
everything else I use on it now is open source. It is certainly going to
be the last Mac I buy. I would even prefer Windows given that the
horrible proprietary software I am forced to use by my work works better
on that system - I'm hoping for an open source refman/endnote solution
that really works tho before I am forced to upgrade and then it will be
Linux all the way!
I think Macs are possibly very good for no-nonsense no-fuss audio work,
and image manipulation... . Personally, I find the freedom, and
"interesting" workflow of Linux much more stimulating.
then get off this list and leave us to our
playthings. or better yet,
spend time critiquing the current state of the "out of the box"
experience with the people who **actually provide** the out of the
box experience.
Well technically this list did, not to long ago, scare away someone that
was impactful in those sorts of decisions;)
I missed this.. what happened?? Sounds bad.
Control what? The source code of an application? Or the kernel? I
have very limited skills in programming languages - I'm just an old
school music artist and multimedia designer. On OS X I have full
control over my personal creative workflow. But Linux was
controlling me in a way that I have to take care of lot admin tasks
and bugs. Yes the bugs and workarounds on Linux controlling me and
I'm to stupid to fix them all plus write my dream apps. I'm one of
the guys, going into a music store and buy a guitar and not one of
the guy who'd like to build a own. My handcraft is music, not wood.
Control your workflow. I am on OS X now for most of my work, however I
can't set up the same workflow I could on Linux, and what I can do is
not nearly as easy or quick on OS X. I could control my desktop and
applications much smoother and faster with some simple customizations on
Linux than I ever could on OS X. I could tweak the visual aspects much
more easily to that I was happier looking at my screen(Yes I do have a
soft spot for eyecandy, and OS X doesn't come close to filling it).
Totally agree!
James
12:39 p.m.
New subject: Kim did the switch to Linux (Warning - going OT!)
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:43 AM, James Stone <jamesmstone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry I was referring to the LAD list, dang crossposting;)
Seablade
then get off this list and leave us to our
playthings. or better yet,
spend time critiquing the current state of the "out of the box"
experience with the people who **actually provide** the out of the
box experience.
Well technically this list did, not to long ago, scare away someone that
was impactful in those sorts of decisions;)
I missed this.. what happened?? Sounds bad.
7 Aug
7 Aug
3:46 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
Just two observations, only generally related:
If you have an OSX system without the installation discs, and you want
to install a free C/C++ compiler, the *only* way I have found is with
a download of several hundred MB from the official OSX website with
*lots* of extra stuff, examples, docs, developer's tools, for many
different languages. Surely won't matter for the majority of people
who would even consider Mac, but *why*? Why on earth would anyone make
that decision?? Especially considering that it's actually GPL software
created by someone else!
On whether Windows or Mac is more important in pro audio, I haven't
gotten so close to the "professional" audio world, but I went to a
pretty modern university, University of the Arts in Philadelphia, and
right as I was graduating they announced the decision to require ALL
students to purchase MacBooks with their own money. Not just music
students, but theater, dance, sculpture, etc., everyone! I don't know
if such a decision reflects a wide market trend in the art world (in
my mind that's impossible, the trend is towards Linux), but it
indicates some kind of power over Windows.
-Chuckk
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Frank Barknecht<fbar(a)footils.org> wrote:
Hallo,
here's an excellent read about Kim Casone (of .microsound and this list, too)
switching from Mac to Linux:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/04/linux-music-workflow-switching-fro…
(URL in one line)
Great work, Kim!
Ciao
--
Frank
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
11:21 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 08:46:04PM +0300, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
If you have an OSX system without the installation
discs, and you want
to install a free C/C++ compiler, the *only* way I have found is with
a download of several hundred MB from the official OSX website with
*lots* of extra stuff, examples, docs, developer's tools, for many
different languages. Surely won't matter for the majority of people
who would even consider Mac, but *why*? Why on earth would anyone make
that decision?? Especially considering that it's actually GPL software
created by someone else!
The installation discs for Mac OS X already contain software licensed
under the GNU GPL (e.g. bash), so the additional obligations under the
GPL would not have been the reason to exclude a compiler.
It seems much more likely that it was the size. Several hundred
megabytes that aren't required by most users should always be omitted
from the installation discs, so that more room is made for what most
users require.
The same is done with Ubuntu and Debian installation images. Most of
the tools needed to build Ubuntu are not included in the installation
image, and require downloading "apt-get build-dep $packagename".
--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 7:21 PM, James Cameron <quozl(a)us.netrek.org> wrote:
The installation discs for Mac OS X already contain software licensed
under the GNU GPL (e.g. bash), so the additional obligations under the
GPL would not have been the reason to exclude a compiler.
It seems much more likely that it was the size. Several hundred
megabytes that aren't required by most users should always be omitted
from the installation discs, so that more room is made for what most
users require.
The same is done with Ubuntu and Debian installation images. Most of
the tools needed to build Ubuntu are not included in the installation
image, and require downloading "apt-get build-dep $packagename".
You misunderstood what he was saying. The GCC compiler IS included on the
installation disks as part of the XCode program. You can also download this
program off of the internet(The download is over a gig by the way last I
looked). The complaint is that Apple only bundles gcc with the XCode
program and a lot of useless stuff that aren't necessarily used by people
like us. But they are used by most Mac developers, and Apple I am sure
wants to encourage their use and 'their' way of doing things.
Seablade
8 Aug
8 Aug
12:23 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 07:44:46PM -0600, Thomas Vecchione wrote:
You misunderstood what he was saying. The GCC
compiler IS included on
the installation disks as part of the XCode program. You can also
download this program off of the internet(The download is over a gig
by the way last I looked). The complaint is that Apple only bundles
gcc with the XCode program and a lot of useless stuff that aren't
necessarily used by people like us. But they are used by most Mac
developers, and Apple I am sure wants to encourage their use and
'their' way of doing things.
Ah, I see, thanks. Yes, an encouragement. I get the point. An open
ecosystem doesn't need to offer the same encouragement.
--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
5:32 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:22 AM, James Cameron<quozl(a)us.netrek.org> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 07:44:46PM -0600, Thomas
Vecchione wrote:
Yeah, that was my point. I checked my Debian testing gcc first and
verified that the download is far less than 1 MB.
I believe the latest XCode is over a gig, but my experience wasn't
quite so bad; it was an older ibook, discs long gone, but using an
outdated version that was only 300 some MB, still too much, and
significant given the speed of the comp.
Maybe here's a task for some beneficent soul like me, to compile some
GCC tools on OSX and offer small downloads.
-Chuckk
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
You misunderstood what he was saying. The GCC
compiler IS included on
the installation disks as part of the XCode program. You can also
download this program off of the internet(The download is over a gig
by the way last I looked). The complaint is that Apple only bundles
gcc with the XCode program and a lot of useless stuff that aren't
necessarily used by people like us. But they are used by most Mac
developers, and Apple I am sure wants to encourage their use and
'their' way of doing things.
Ah, I see, thanks. Yes, an encouragement. I get the point. An open
ecosystem doesn't need to offer the same encouragement.
5:47 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] Kim did the switch to Linux
On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 10:31:59AM +0300, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Maybe here's a task for some beneficent soul like
me, to compile some
GCC tools on OSX and offer small downloads.
Possibly. Or simply redistribute the critical files.
See also ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macports ... not sure if gcc is included
though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fink ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo/Alt ... the Gentoo Prefix branch.
--
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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James Stone -
Thomas Vecchione