2 Mar
2006
2 Mar
'06
9:17 p.m.
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Loki
2 Mar
2 Mar
9:33 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
--- Loki Davison <loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to
smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds
do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas
for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool
to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Being completely ignorant about smack I don't know if
it sequences but if you do I'd encourage not doing it
by pattern interface. Use the percussion staff. It's
so much easier than pattern interfaces and if it did
realtime playback upon note input anyone could learn
to read the percussion staff in about 10 minutes. OK,
maybe five minutes.
And if smack doesn't do sequencing then how about
something rare like good documentation. I'd love to
study synthesis I just haven't had the time to do it.
Alwright, disreguard both of those ideas and get smack
and it's dependencies to compile on FC whatever. Never
mind, I'm being a dickhead. Seriously, smack looks
like good stuff. One of these days I'd like to try it.
ron
Loki
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9:40 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
Being completely ignorant about smack I don't know
if
it sequences but if you do I'd encourage not doing it
by pattern interface. Use the percussion staff. It's
so much easier than pattern interfaces and if it did
realtime playback upon note input anyone could learn
to read the percussion staff in about 10 minutes. OK,
maybe five minutes.
Doesn't do sequencing ;-)
And if smack doesn't do sequencing then how about
something rare like good documentation. I'd love to
study synthesis I just haven't had the time to do it.
good idea... documentation.... don't have any of that at the moment....
Alwright, disreguard both of those ideas and get
smack
and it's dependencies to compile on FC whatever. Never
mind, I'm being a dickhead. Seriously, smack looks
like good stuff. One of these days I'd like to try it.
Thanks ;-)
ron
Loki
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5 Mar
5 Mar
2:30 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 12:39:42PM +1100, Loki Davison wrote:
What about your thesis paper?
--
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki | Linux Audio Developer and Sysadmin
Technical Operations Division | Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW | Washington, DC 20036 | 202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any
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network(a)rfa.org.
Being
completely ignorant about smack I don't know if
it sequences but if you do I'd encourage not doing it
by pattern interface. Use the percussion staff. It's
so much easier than pattern interfaces and if it did
realtime playback upon note input anyone could learn
to read the percussion staff in about 10 minutes. OK,
maybe five minutes.
Doesn't do sequencing ;-)
And if smack doesn't do sequencing then how
about
something rare like good documentation. I'd love to
study synthesis I just haven't had the time to do it.
good idea... documentation.... don't have any of that at the moment....
3:36 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/5/06, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki <rzewnickie(a)rfa.org> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 12:39:42PM +1100, Loki Davison
wrote:
What about your thesis paper?
It's a touch verbose ;-) At 65 pages and it's not really that related,
apart from the physical modeling stuff, which i don't ship with smack
anyway because it's not really any good. I mean, if you want to use 95
% of cpu on a amd64 3000+ to have one (not great) conga it might be
okay... It has got a solid intro on drums and info about modes, etc
which would be helpful in understanding the synthesis stuff i guess.
Some more load this and play with this knob docs i think are needed.
Maybe i should do a video. ;-) Anyone got any other drums they want
synthed? Or algos?
Loki
Being
completely ignorant about smack I don't know if
it sequences but if you do I'd encourage not doing it
by pattern interface. Use the percussion staff. It's
so much easier than pattern interfaces and if it did
realtime playback upon note input anyone could learn
to read the percussion staff in about 10 minutes. OK,
maybe five minutes.
Doesn't do sequencing ;-)
And if smack doesn't do sequencing then how
about
something rare like good documentation. I'd love to
study synthesis I just haven't had the time to do it.
good idea... documentation.... don't have any of that at the moment....
4:34 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On Sun, Mar 05, 2006 at 06:36:13PM +1100, Loki Davison wrote:
On 3/5/06, Eric Dantan Rzewnicki
<rzewnickie(a)rfa.org> wrote:
Sure, 0k. but Ron did say he would like to learn about synthesis, so
maybe it's worth posting the URL so he can take a look. <wink> <nudge>
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 12:39:42PM +1100, Loki
Davison wrote:
What about your
thesis paper?
It's a touch verbose ;-) At 65 pages and it's not really that
related,
apart from the physical modeling stuff, which i don't ship with smack
anyway because it's not really any good. I mean, if you want to use 95
% of cpu on a amd64 3000+ to have one (not great) conga it might be
okay... It has got a solid intro on drums and info about modes, etc
which would be helpful in understanding the synthesis stuff i guess. Being
completely ignorant about smack I don't know if
it sequences but if you do I'd encourage not doing it
by pattern interface. Use the percussion staff. It's
so much easier than pattern interfaces and if it did
realtime playback upon note input anyone could learn
to read the percussion staff in about 10 minutes. OK,
maybe five minutes.
Doesn't do sequencing ;-)
And if smack doesn't do sequencing then how
about
something rare like good documentation. I'd love to
study synthesis I just haven't had the time to do it.
good idea...
documentation.... don't have any of that at the moment.... Some more load this and play with this knob docs i
think are needed.
Maybe i should do a video. ;-) Anyone got any other drums they want
synthed? Or algos?
How about some various taiko drums and such al a Ondekoza, Kodo, etc.?
Knives on chopping blocks? (/me saw Ondekoza do a great bit with these
at a performance once.)
I've always been partial to pots and pans and dishes and glasses and
other things found in kitchens since a very young age.
--
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki | Linux Audio Developer and Sysadmin
Technical Operations Division | Radio Free Asia
2025 M Street, NW | Washington, DC 20036 | 202-530-4900
CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATION
This e-mail message is intended only for the use of the addressee and
may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any
unauthorized dissemination, distribution, or copying is strictly
prohibited. If you receive this transmission in error, please contact
network(a)rfa.org.
2 Mar
2 Mar
10:14 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/2/06, Loki Davison <loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to smack
(
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Loki
Hi,
I've never used smack so take this with a grain of salt, but give
it info about time signature and then add some features to allow smack
to jam a bit. Let it add a few beats here and there, semi randomly,
but sensibly like a drummer would do. Let it add ghost notes like the
stick hitting a second time softly behind the first beat. It adds a
lot of realism. There was a program along time ago called (IIRC)
Jazz++ that had some sort of drum programming language that could do
this sort of stuff. While it sounds crazy I use Groove Agent which
does an excellent job of htis sort of thing.
Just some thoughts.
cheers,
Mark
10:33 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 18:14 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
On 3/2/06, Loki Davison <loki.davison(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Can't Hydrogen do that (with samples rather than synthesis)?
Lee
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to
smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Loki
Hi,
I've never used smack so take this with a grain of salt, but give
it info about time signature and then add some features to allow smack
to jam a bit. Let it add a few beats here and there, semi randomly,
but sensibly like a drummer would do. Let it add ghost notes like the
stick hitting a second time softly behind the first beat. It adds a
lot of realism. There was a program along time ago called (IIRC)
Jazz++ that had some sort of drum programming language that could do
this sort of stuff. While it sounds crazy I use Groove Agent which
does an excellent job of htis sort of thing.
Just some thoughts.
3 Mar
3 Mar
12:55 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/3/06, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 18:14 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Not to point this out again... but... smack doesn't have any
sequencing in it. I use a sequencer for that, like seq24. Smack is
just a synth. Any ideas regarding drum sounds (synthesis) not
sequencing? I.e any drum sounds you are dieing to have (synthed) that
smack doesn't do.
Loki
On 3/2/06, Loki Davison
<loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Can't Hydrogen do that (with samples rather than synthesis)?
Lee I am searching for ideas for what to add next to
smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Loki
Hi,
I've never used smack so take this with a grain of salt, but give
it info about time signature and then add some features to allow smack
to jam a bit. Let it add a few beats here and there, semi randomly,
but sensibly like a drummer would do. Let it add ghost notes like the
stick hitting a second time softly behind the first beat. It adds a
lot of realism. There was a program along time ago called (IIRC)
Jazz++ that had some sort of drum programming language that could do
this sort of stuff. While it sounds crazy I use Groove Agent which
does an excellent job of htis sort of thing.
Just some thoughts.
8:37 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/2/06, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 18:14 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
No frankly it cannot. Hydrogen cannot add anything on a random basis
to make it sound more real. Hydrogen doesn't know if the snare is
playing on the down beat or the back beat, etc. You could of course
attempt to go find samples of snare hits with ghost notes, and you
could attempt to use them in ways that sound random making lots
patterns and using them at different times. As for me that all takes
so long I continue using Groove Agent because I can get what sounds
like a drummer in about 5 minutes instead of 5 days. But that's just
me...
Anyway, he asked for inputs so he's free to dismiss them if they don't
fit what he wants to do with Smack.
- Mark
On 3/2/06, Loki Davison
<loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Can't Hydrogen do that (with samples rather than synthesis)?
Lee I am searching for ideas for what to add next to
smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
Loki
Hi,
I've never used smack so take this with a grain of salt, but give
it info about time signature and then add some features to allow smack
to jam a bit. Let it add a few beats here and there, semi randomly,
but sensibly like a drummer would do. Let it add ghost notes like the
stick hitting a second time softly behind the first beat. It adds a
lot of realism. There was a program along time ago called (IIRC)
Jazz++ that had some sort of drum programming language that could do
this sort of stuff. While it sounds crazy I use Groove Agent which
does an excellent job of htis sort of thing.
Just some thoughts. 
2 Mar
2 Mar
10:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
Jazz++ is still around, and they are looking for some
volunteer developers to get it up to date. I have
little luck with it running on Linux.
http://www.jazzware.com/
--- Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
lot of realism. There was a program along time ago
called (IIRC) Jazz++ that had some sort of drum
programming language that could do this sort of
stuff.
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3 Mar
3 Mar
3:53 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
Create a tool that creates Smack patches from samples, analogous to
bitmap vectorizing tools.
Carlo
6:03 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 12:17:02PM +1100, Loki Davison wrote:
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to smack
(
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do.
- Natural sounding drumkit (pop, rock, jazz ... there are samples,
there's Hydrogen, but tweakable envelopes and tuning without sampling
artifacts would make this interesting.
- Gated kicks and snares (think phil collins)
- Orchestra: timpani, triangle, cymbals
- Hip-hop / Lofi
- Industrial
- Amsterdamned kicks and matching snares for techno hardcore / gabber
- FX like gunshot, whiplash, breaking glass, earthquake
- a complete samba section
(will send some of my own patches in the coming days.)
Cheers,
Thorsten Wilms
8:30 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/3/06, Thorsten Wilms <t_w_(a)freenet.de> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 12:17:02PM +1100, Loki Davison
wrote:
I'm going to need descriptions on what the hell some of these are.
Amsterdamned kicks? How do they sound? name sounds mean! ;-)
Industrial i can do, as well as the phil collins style. If anyone has
other requests, do tell.
Loki
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to
smack (
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do.
- Natural sounding drumkit (pop, rock, jazz ... there are samples,
there's Hydrogen, but tweakable envelopes and tuning without sampling
artifacts would make this interesting.
- Gated kicks and snares (think phil collins)
- Orchestra: timpani, triangle, cymbals
- Hip-hop / Lofi
- Industrial
- Amsterdamned kicks and matching snares for techno hardcore / gabber
- FX like gunshot, whiplash, breaking glass, earthquake
- a complete samba section
(will send some of my own patches in the coming days.)
Cheers,
Thorsten Wilms
9:28 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 11:30:14PM +1100, Loki Davison wrote:
I'm going to need descriptions on what the hell some of these are.
Amsterdamned kicks? How do they sound? name sounds mean! ;-)
Industrial i can do, as well as the phil collins style. If anyone has
other requests, do tell.
After some research the term amsterdamned is not in active use at all
(there's a movie with taht title, though). Read an article where it was
called like that years ago, and it got stuck. Always wondered why it
wasn't rather called rotterdamned. *shrug*
Anyway, I mean techno hardcore and gabber style big, mean, hard
distorted kicks. Techniques used to get them are fuzz pedals,
overdriving a mixer channel, EQ, compressor, sampling (layering,
pitching, cutting off a bit from the start).
I tried to get there in a more direct way. Found a square wave
with fast pitch envelope (like one you can use on a sine for
a TR alike) works somewhat, but not convincing on its own.
---
Thorsten Wilms
1:40 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
"Loki Davison" <loki.davison(a)gmail.com>om>:
sounds mean! ;-) Industrial i can do, as well as the
phil
collins style. If anyone has other requests, do tell.
If I were to conceive a rythm synth I'd look at ideas from
voice synthesis. Not going for language or realism, mind you,
but for something between the real and the robot. Vowels and
gradations hardcore-grade.
Is Phil Collins high on the list? Not that I miss the sound. I
mean, there's only 3 zillion samples of his snare around. And
honestly: Industrial rythm from a synth is so pathetic. I saw
"Einstuerzende Neubauten" once and after that the idea of
someone trying to make a synth sound like them just never
recovered. Plus the time seems to be over somewhat. But who am
I to say, ignore me :)
--
Wolfgang
8:35 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
Well you've got lots of useless answers, and one good one:
- Natural sounding drumkit (pop, rock, jazz ... there
are samples,
there's Hydrogen, but tweakable envelopes and tuning without sampling
artifacts would make this interesting.
Yes. And it gets really cool when you can simulate a giant snare with
a loose head, and things like that.
I've been thinking of making a realistic snare-synth for ages but I
guess I should admit that I don't have time.
Metallic, ringing, noisy snares are my favourite... mmm, headachingly good!
James
4:47 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/3/06, James McDermott <jamesmichaelmcdermott(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Metallic, ringing, noisy snares are my favourite...
mmm, headachingly good!
Have you heard St. Anger by Metallica? I'm not sure it's so much a
metallic, ringing snare as it is a large oil drum. And yeah, it gave
me a headache! :)
Dana
12:06 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
"Loki Davison" <loki.davison(a)gmail.com> writes:
Any ideas?
The wave equation?;). Use of partial differential equations, definite
integrals and Bessel functions. There are some algos you can use
realtime, though they demand alot.
Use of the Rabenstein algorithm:
http://www.lnt.de/LNT_I/research/projects/soundsynthesis/index.php?lang=eng
Maybe you can chop parts of it up spread them out on the
network?;). Like realtime raytracing projects using 100 CPUs and more.
Have you done any work on non realtime synthesis?. I'm very interested
in this and I'm playing with octave and r now. I don't necessarily
want to recreate a real drum. I'm looking for that dirty sound; the
crushed cardboard box sound, the hit on trashcans and having control
of all it's parameters;).
We can probably do such extensive algorithms realtime in the near
future.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
[sip|iax]: e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
1:47 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
Esben Stien <b0ef(a)esben-stien.name>me>:
for that dirty sound; the crushed cardboard box sound,
the
Reminds me of the awesome film about Motown's Funk Brothers
where Uriel Jones talks about his first kickdrum: An old
Cardboard box. Says he never ever found another drum that
would have had the punch.
--
Wolfgang
8:06 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
On 3/4/06, Esben Stien <b0ef(a)esben-stien.name> wrote:
"Loki Davison"
<loki.davison(a)gmail.com> writes:
I already have ;-) As part of my thesis i evaluated this algo. TFM's.
They are more impressive than some of the other methods but don't
produce satisfying results. Oh, and the polyphase filter bank version
has horrible, horrible multirate dsp maths.
Any ideas?
The wave equation?;). Use of partial differential equations, definite
integrals and Bessel functions. There are some algos you can use
realtime, though they demand alot.
Use of the Rabenstein algorithm:
http://www.lnt.de/LNT_I/research/projects/soundsynthesis/index.php?lang=eng
Maybe you can chop parts of it up spread them out on
the
network?;). Like realtime raytracing projects using 100 CPUs and more.
Have you done any work on non realtime synthesis?.
Yeah. Though you should really try David Clark's stuff for
non-realtime things. It's GOOD. ;-)
http://home.earthlink.net/~davidrclark/engulf_audio/index.html
I'm very interested
in this and I'm playing with octave and r now. I
don't necessarily
want to recreate a real drum. I'm looking for that dirty sound; the
crushed cardboard box sound, the hit on trashcans and having control
of all it's parameters;).
okay... dirty...
12:42 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Smack ideas. What else do people want in a drum synth?
I am searching for ideas for what to add next to smack
(
smack.berlios.de ). Any ideas? I.e what drum sounds do you want
synthed that smack doesn't do. Has anyone got ideas for other drum
algos or patches etc? I've got to add something cool to the next
release apart from just neatening it up... ;-)
anyone know what happened to this app?:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/industrializer
it used to be my favorite for percussion generation... nick the algos and
make them realtime :)
cheers,
dave
6840
days inactive
6843
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
21 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Carlo Capocasa -
Dana Olson -
Dave Griffiths -
Eric Dantan Rzewnicki -
Esben Stien -
James McDermott -
Lee Revell -
Loki Davison -
Mark Knecht -
R Parker -
Sean Edwards -
Thorsten Wilms -
Wolfgang Woehl