29 Jun
2005
29 Jun
'05
8:09 p.m.
This is a bit different from the usual stuff dicussed here, but somebody
may know how to help and it does concern Linux and audio.
The best way to describe the problem:
With Firefox, go to http://radiobritfolk.co.uk/launchbillboard.aspx
You should get music played iin the background as per displayed playlist.
Apparently it works for Windows and Mac users, but it doesn't work for
me and some other usrs with Firefox and Linux. Firefox complains
about missing plugins, and can't find a suitable one.
The site seems to attempt to use both the <OBJECT> and <EMBED> tag to get
streaming audio for the playlist. It's important for legal
copyright-related reasons that the music should play without the user
being able to download or rewind it - i.e. purely in the background.
The author (and organisation behind it, of which I'm part) can't afford
to put it on a proper streaming server. I can see it's done by embedding
a playlist as a .m3u file. I can play that with realaudio if I link
directly to a .m3u file (I've tested it on my own website).
If this is a problem that simple to fix on the server, that can be done.
If it helps, the relevant code on the page is like this:
<span id="lPlay">
<object width='300' height='64'>
<param name='src' value='billboard/PL_213.m3u'>
<param name='autoplay' value='true'>
<param name='controller' value='false'>
<param name='hidden' value='true'>
<embed src='billboard/PL_213.m3u' autostart='true'
hidden='true' loop='false' width='300'
height='64'>
</embed>
</object>
</span>
The file name PL_213.m3u is randomly generated different each time the page is
visited, and each time it lists the same tracks in a different order.
Does anyone understand what's going on here?
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
29 Jun
29 Jun
10:56 p.m.
anahata wrote:
The site seems to attempt to use both the
<OBJECT> and <EMBED> tag to get
streaming audio for the playlist. It's important for legal
copyright-related reasons that the music should play without the user
being able to download or rewind it - i.e. purely in the background.
They are fighting an impossible to win battle. I have 3 machines here,
with a total of 6 soundcards, all different (though 2 are CMI8738's, one
in a PCI slot, one built-in to the motherboard). All 6 cards are
perfectly capable of capturing the PCM output, and hence recording
anything streamed from the net.
--
e. j. branagan
the MUSE ยง Nashville, TN
30 Jun
30 Jun
6:19 a.m.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 07:56:44PM -0500, e. j. branagan - the MUSE wrote:
anahata wrote:
Oh, I know there are ways round it, but the general idea is that the
software invoked while viewing the web page doesn't have user controls
to invite you to download or rewind the sound. It's all about the legal
difference between a download and a broadcast. The BBC's "Listen Again"
service is the same - of course there are ways of recording it and
keeping it, but the user has to do something very deliberate to achieve
that, like install extra software.
What about the website problem? (I'm beginning to think it's a Mozilla
issue)
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
the music should play without the user
being able to download or rewind it
They are fighting an impossible to win battle. 
8:02 a.m.
anahata <anahata(a)treewind.co.uk> writes:
On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 07:56:44PM -0500, e. j.
branagan - the MUSE wrote:
I highly dislike this retarded attitude. In the end, this means
that only users with the experience to bypass such hoops do
get the priviledge to do what they want. This is flawed
by design. Broadcasts were always easy to record,
just flip a tape into your radio and hit record. Its no difference
in the computer world, and it is just insane to try
and put some limitations on it. Recording things for
later review is such a normal thing to do, why would one
want to limit it?
--
CYa,
Mario
anahata wrote:
Oh, I know there are ways round it, but the general idea is that the
software invoked while viewing the web page doesn't have user controls
to invite you to download or rewind the sound. It's all about the legal
difference between a download and a broadcast. The BBC's "Listen Again"
service is the same - of course there are ways of recording it and
keeping it, but the user has to do something very deliberate to achieve
that, like install extra software. the music should play without the user
being able to download or rewind it
They are fighting an impossible to win battle.
8:57 a.m.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 12:02:57PM +0200, Mario Lang wrote:
I highly dislike this retarded attitude. In the end,
this means
that only users with the experience to bypass such hoops do
get the priviledge to do what they want. This is flawed
by design. Broadcasts were always easy to record,
just flip a tape into your radio and hit record. Its no difference
in the computer world
I entirely agree in principle. I'm no apologist for the UK music
licensing system, but as mentioned before I'm guessing that the key
difference is supposed to be that ultimately if some user bypassed the
download restrictions and did something like make copies for sale, it
is that user rather than the web site management that would be getting
the letters from somebody's lawyers.
For the Radio Britfolk organization, it is a choice between paying huge
PRS fees for downloadable music, being seen to break the law in a rather
public way, or making the music available for free in the only way
allowed.
Apparently as long as the token effort is made, they are legal.
It's a bit like putting a flimsy toy padlock on the font door of your
house. Anyone breaking it (two seconds with a bolt cutter) can be done
for breaking and entering a.k.a. burglary, whereas if you leave the
door unlocked so they can enter the house without damage, no such
prosecution can be made (theft is a separate issue).
Not that I'm recommending it as a security model :-)
There's plenty more wrong with the music licensing system in the UK at
the moment - don't get me started on the licensing of premises for live
music, a much bigger can of worms right now.
Usual disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
6:27 a.m.
Hi Anahata,
I don't know, but to me it seems this playlist should work, and there
is no protection whatsoever. The only thing I see it that the hostname
in the URL is not correct.
I went to the page you mentioned, looked at the embed tag, and downloaded the m3u.
$ wget http://radiobritfolk.co.uk/billboard/PL_217.m3u
(The number seems generated, and only valid for a while)
I look in the m3u and see URL's like:
http://www.limbocreatives.co.uk/britfolk/billboard/BB_178_Vikings.mp3
However:
$ host www.limbocreatives.co.uk
Host www.limbocreatives.co.uk not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
So I make a wild guess, and do:
$ wget http://radiobritfolk.co.uk/billboard/BB_178_Vikings.mp3
And I download the mp3 without a problem. (And I listened to it,
and deleted it right away, because this music gets on my nerves
instantly ;-) )
If the URL's in the m3u would have been correct, I am sure that clicking
on the m3u (if that would have been an option) would have opened xmms for me. And I am
pretty sure that even the embed tag would have worked if I would have had the
mplayerplug-in installed.
mplayerplug-in.sourceforge.net
But I, for one, _hate_ websites that unadvertitely start playing sounds.
Anyway, I think the best solution for streaming music from a website, is
icecast. It will stream (but it will not stop anyone from grabbing that
stream). But, of course, e. j. branagan comment is totally true. (It's
often refered to as the "analog hole"). If you can hear it, you can record it.
maarten
7:09 a.m.
On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 10:27:24AM +0200, Maarten de Boer wrote:
$ wget
http://radiobritfolk.co.uk/billboard/PL_217.m3u
(The number seems generated, and only valid for a while)
That's right - it's different every visit, part of the mechanism for
randomizing the play list order.
I look in the m3u and see URL's like:
http://www.limbocreatives.co.uk/britfolk/billboard/BB_178_Vikings.mp3
However:
$ host www.limbocreatives.co.uk
Host www.limbocreatives.co.uk not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
~$ host www.limbocreatives.co.uk
www.limbocreatives.co.uk has address 193.128.49.56
Hmm... looks like you've got a local DNS problem?
and deleted it right away, because this music gets on
my nerves
instantly ;-) )
Sorry, I can't vouch for the musical quality of my folky friends :-)
There'll be a track on mine on there some time soon :-\
But I, for one, _hate_ websites that unadvertitely
start playing sounds.
Playing sounds is the whole point of that page. I don't think background
music comes up on the main radiobritfolk.co.uk page.
Anyway, I think the best solution for streaming music
from a website, is
icecast. It will stream (but it will not stop anyone from grabbing that
stream).
I take it that means renting server space that has icecast, which I
think is a financial problem at the moment. This operation is expected
to get too big to run on the back of someones ADSL connection!
the "analog hole"). If you can hear it, you
can record it.
Yes, I suspect the difference between broadcasting and downloading is
which party is legally reponsible if the file ends up on the user's
computer.
--
Anahata
anahata(a)treewind.co.uk -+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827
7087
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
6 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
anahata -
e. j. branagan - the MUSE -
Maarten de Boer -
Mario Lang