18 Aug
2009
18 Aug
'09
3:55 p.m.
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation software. The goal is that I can very
quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay chord symbols on it, when learning new
songs or writing them, so that I don't forget them.
Something where I could scribble down "Fake Book"-style charts. Of course
there's pencil and paper, but then I have to deal with a music stand and shuffling
leaves of paper around. Since I have the laptop sitting in front of me anyway, if I had
all my charts in there, I could just page through them, use find to search for them, etc.
Rosegarden and the lilypond stuff is probably way too much overkill. It's not critical
that it have MIDI in/out either, since the output device is going to be eyes-brain-fingers
anyway. denemo confused me way too much; couldn't figure out how to do basic stuff in
it at all.
I've played around with nted, and it seems the easiest and closest to what I want, but
even it tries to be too "smart" and sticks in things like dotted rests and stuff
where I don't want them, and I can't figure out how to move notes in time once it
decides to put them there-- frustrating.
Any other options?
Again, the typical usage is that a bandleader will sing or show me the melody and I need
to note it down very quickly.
-ken
18 Aug
18 Aug
4:32 p.m.
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is that I
can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay chord symbols on
it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that I don't forget them.
I use MUP. No gui ... and for me that is just fine. Not quite free.
ABC is similar. And if you still want to pursue non-gui stuff there is PMW
(Phillip's music writer) ... free, but again might be too much.
I was looking at musescore this morning as well. If you want a gui, etc.
this might be worth looking at. Looks clean, etc.
--
**** Listen to my CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars ****
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: bob(a)mellowood.ca
WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca
4:35 p.m.
Hi Ken,
At the risk of giving a totally inappropriate answer - I use Noteworthy
Composer. It's a Windows package and it's not free *dodges tomatoes* but
it works reasonably well under Wine.
I use it because I first got into digital music production on Windows
several years before I got into Linux. I've now fully switched to Linux
but after searching extensively for an equivalent notation editor with
MIDI, but I haven't yet found anything I like, and habits are hard to
change.
Noteworthy is fast and simple, and doesn't do anything unless you tell
it to.
Just my opinion!
Cheers,
Jonathan
On 08/18/2009 06:55 PM, Ken Restivo wrote:
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is that I can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay
chord symbols on it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that I don't forget
them.
Something where I could scribble down "Fake Book"-style charts. Of course
there's pencil and paper, but then I have to deal with a music stand and shuffling
leaves of paper around. Since I have the laptop sitting in front of me anyway, if I had
all my charts in there, I could just page through them, use find to search for them, etc.
Rosegarden and the lilypond stuff is probably way too much overkill. It's not
critical that it have MIDI in/out either, since the output device is going to be
eyes-brain-fingers anyway. denemo confused me way too much; couldn't figure out how to
do basic stuff in it at all.
I've played around with nted, and it seems the easiest and closest to what I want,
but even it tries to be too "smart" and sticks in things like dotted rests and
stuff where I don't want them, and I can't figure out how to move notes in time
once it decides to put them there-- frustrating.
Any other options?
Again, the typical usage is that a bandleader will sing or show me the melody and I need
to note it down very quickly.
-ken
4:47 p.m.
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 20:55:03 Ken Restivo wrote:
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is that I
can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay chord symbols
on it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that I don't forget
them.
Something where I could scribble down "Fake Book"-style charts. Of course
there's pencil and paper, but then I have to deal with a music stand and
shuffling leaves of paper around. Since I have the laptop sitting in front
of me anyway, if I had all my charts in there, I could just page through
them, use find to search for them, etc.
Rosegarden and the lilypond stuff is probably way too much overkill. It's
not critical that it have MIDI in/out either, since the output device is
going to be eyes-brain-fingers anyway. denemo confused me way too much;
couldn't figure out how to do basic stuff in it at all.
I've played around with nted, and it seems the easiest and closest to what
I want, but even it tries to be too "smart" and sticks in things like
dotted rests and stuff where I don't want them, and I can't figure out how
to move notes in time once it decides to put them there-- frustrating.
Any other options?
Again, the typical usage is that a bandleader will sing or show me the
melody and I need to note it down very quickly.
Try rusty trusty noteedit. Problem with most newer programs is that they
impose too much theory (often misplaced for what you want to do). Notedit will
let you edit anything you want, worry about rebarring or rebeaming later.
Nted is the closest successor. Denomo is difficult to use and along with
mscore and others, too rich for us lead-sheeters.
You might also try a lead-sheet based program that also does notation such as
improvisor. It is slow on slower machines and its MIDI play can be
problematic. If you have patience, it can generate some interesting
improvisations.
4:55 p.m.
Are you a guitar player?
If yes, but in your case maybe even if not, here's my 2p:
TuxGuitar has an extremely easy way of inputing notes using the numeric
keyboard as tablature (string/fret), or just point and click notes.
Chords names and/or fretboards are a shortcut away
It outputs staff, tab or both in pdf or LilyPond
VM
5:10 p.m.
+1 to tuxguitar, but Ken plays keys.. still, it might work OK,
although the tab output option would be less useful!
James
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Viktor
Mastoridis<viktor(a)mastoridis.co.uk> wrote:
Are you a guitar player?
If yes, but in your case maybe even if not, here's my 2p:
TuxGuitar has an extremely easy way of inputing notes using the numeric
keyboard as tablature (string/fret), or just point and click notes.
Chords names and/or fretboards are a shortcut away
It outputs staff, tab or both in pdf or LilyPond
VM
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Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
5:21 p.m.
Hmm,
I was going to suggest Rosegarden, but you nixed that :(
However I'd like to re-introduce it but with a different slant.
How about actually playing your idea on a keyboard linked to
Rosegarden, then using the notation editor to clean up, create
repeats, etc.
This is exactly how I produce a lot of my work, but using the matrix
editor rather than notation.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
5:27 p.m.
Lilypond with Frescobaldi
On 8/18/09, Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
Hmm,
I was going to suggest Rosegarden, but you nixed that :(
However I'd like to re-introduce it but with a different slant.
How about actually playing your idea on a keyboard linked to
Rosegarden, then using the notation editor to clean up, create
repeats, etc.
This is exactly how I produce a lot of my work, but using the matrix
editor rather than notation.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
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Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
7:12 p.m.
On Tuesday August 18 2009 19.55.03 Ken Restivo wrote:
...
Any other options?
Again, the typical usage is that a bandleader will sing or show me the
melody and I need to note it down very quickly.
I know that life usually is to short for using Java apps ;-) , but I think
Impro-Visor is one of the options.
Jostein
19 Aug
19 Aug
12:11 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:31:26PM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
On Tuesday August 18 2009 19.55.03 Ken Restivo wrote:
...
I'll try impro-visor and see how it goes. If it'll run with the Debian GNU Java,
then great. If it requires the Sun JVM, might be more of a hassle than it's worth.
So far, Noteedit would be great if only it would let me enter rests! There doesn't
seem to be any way to enter rests, and that means, no go for me.
nted would be great if only it would let me move notes around and delete rests!
So I'm stuck between those two being almost usable...
-ken
Any other options?
Again, the typical usage is that a bandleader will sing or show me the
melody and I need to note it down very quickly.
I know that life usually is to short for using Java apps ;-) , but I think
Impro-Visor is one of the options.
12:17 a.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
So far, Noteedit would be great if only it would let
me enter rests! There doesn't seem to be any way to enter rests, and that means, no go
for me.
This:
http://vsr.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/staff/jan/nted/doc/ch01s04.html#insert…
doesn't help ?
Best,
dp
1:32 a.m.
On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:17:15PM -0400, Dave Phillips wrote:
Ken Restivo wrote:
Almost. How do I *move* a note. i.e., I click something and it places a B-flat 8th note at
beat 4. I realize I screwed up and I need to put it on the and of beat 2. How do I move
it?
(I may need to take this off-list to the nted list, sorry).
-ken
So far, Noteedit would be great if only it would
let me enter rests! There doesn't seem to be any way to enter rests, and that means,
no go for me.
This:
http://vsr.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/staff/jan/nted/doc/ch01s04.html#insert…
doesn't help ?
3:51 a.m.
On Wednesday August 19 2009 04.10.49 Ken Restivo wrote:
...
I'll try impro-visor and see how it goes. If
it'll run with the Debian GNU
Java, then great. If it requires the Sun JVM, might be more of a hassle
than it's worth.
The best thing with Impro-Visor is that it takes so short time to learn, and
for fast making of lead sheets, it's probably the best at the moment. You must
also run the virmidi module.
A wild guess is that you must use Sun's Java, not many "bigger" apps work in
a
non Sun Java environment in my experience. On the other hand: it should not be
any problem longer to install it, it's in Debian's non-free section of the
repo and a newer Java 1.6* Ubuntu deb will probably install as well.
I use Sun's 1.6* version of Java (downloaded from Sun) in my FC10/CCRMA system
and it did not take long time to make it work. In my Ubuntu system, I use a
deb.
As another side effect: The Fantasia front end for Linux sampler will work as
well.
Is it for your Eee? How much programs and gizmos is it really possible to
stuff inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Jostein
6:01 a.m.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:51:50AM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
On Wednesday August 19 2009 04.10.49 Ken Restivo
wrote:
...
Ah, cool. Sun JAVA is in Debian! Will wonders never cease.
I'll try impro-visor and see how it goes. If
it'll run with the Debian GNU
Java, then great. If it requires the Sun JVM, might be more of a hassle
than it's worth.
The best thing with Impro-Visor is that it takes so short time to learn, and
for fast making of lead sheets, it's probably the best at the moment. You must
also run the virmidi module.
A wild guess is that you must use Sun's Java, not many "bigger" apps work
in a
non Sun Java environment in my experience. On the other hand: it should not be
any problem longer to install it, it's in Debian's non-free section of the
repo and a newer Java 1.6* Ubuntu deb will probably install as well.
I use Sun's 1.6* version of Java (downloaded from Sun) in my FC10/CCRMA system
and it did not take long time to make it work. In my Ubuntu system, I use a
deb.
As another side effect: The Fantasia front end for
Linux sampler will work as
well.
That would be fun to try out.
Is it for your Eee? How much programs and gizmos is it really possible to
stuff inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Yeah, I'm using it on the EEE, which is why I'm a little worried about trying to
shove JAVA into this whole setup.
My backup plan is that I do have a little Mini-ITX board with a 64-bit 1.6Ghz processor in
it sitting around, and if the EEE finally can't take it anymore than I can use the ITX
as a synth.
-ken
6:16 a.m.
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.00.19 Ken Restivo wrote:
I have not tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs where
speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that might be the
problem?
Jostein
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:51:50AM +0200, Jostein Chr.
Andersen wrote:
...
Is it for your
Eee? How much programs and gizmos is it really possible to
stuff inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Yeah, I'm using it on the EEE, which is why I'm a little worried about
trying to shove JAVA into this whole setup.
My backup plan is that I do have a little Mini-ITX board with a 64-bit
1.6Ghz processor in it sitting around, and if the EEE finally can't take it
anymore than I can use the ITX as a synth.
6:22 a.m.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Jostein Chr. Andersen <jostein(a)vait.se>wrote;wrote:
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.00.19 Ken Restivo
wrote:
it
The nice thing about the latest Impro-Visor (4.07) it has musicxml export.
So converting to Lilypond should be more easy now.
\r
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:51:50AM +0200, Jostein
Chr. Andersen wrote:
...
> Is it for your Eee? How much programs and
gizmos is it really possible
to
stuff
inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Yeah, I'm using it on the EEE, which is why I'm a little worried about
trying to shove JAVA into this whole setup.
My backup plan is that I do have a little Mini-ITX board with a 64-bit
1.6Ghz processor in it sitting around, and if the EEE finally can't take anymore than I can use the ITX as a synth.
I have not tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs
where
speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that might be the
problem?
Jostein
6:30 a.m.
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:14:14AM +0200, Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.00.19 Ken Restivo
wrote:
I have not tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs where
speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that might be the
problem?
Well.... I...... tried...... it...... and..... it's..... unusably...... slow.....
But it does look very nice, and quite probably what I need. Just not usable on a netbook,
which is what I carry around with me these days.
I'll have to see if nted or notedit might be coerced into doing what I want then, or
just carry around paper and pencil, the old-fashioned way.
-ken
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:51:50AM +0200, Jostein
Chr. Andersen wrote:
...
Is it for
your Eee? How much programs and gizmos is it really possible to
stuff inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Yeah, I'm using it on the EEE, which is why I'm a little worried about
trying to shove JAVA into this whole setup.
My backup plan is that I do have a little Mini-ITX board with a 64-bit
1.6Ghz processor in it sitting around, and if the EEE finally can't take it
anymore than I can use the ITX as a synth. 
6:35 a.m.
Please can you tell me what you found confusing in Denenemo?
Did you see this?
http://denemo.org/index.php/First_Steps
Nils
On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:29:45 -0700
Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:14:14AM +0200, Jostein Chr.
Andersen wrote:
--
Nils <list(a)nilsgey.de>
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.00.19 Ken Restivo
wrote:
I have not tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs where
speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that might be the
problem?
Well.... I...... tried...... it...... and..... it's..... unusably...... slow.....
But it does look very nice, and quite probably what I need. Just not usable on a netbook,
which is what I carry around with me these days.
I'll have to see if nted or notedit might be coerced into doing what I want then, or
just carry around paper and pencil, the old-fashioned way.
-ken
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 07:51:50AM +0200, Jostein
Chr. Andersen wrote:
...
Is it for
your Eee? How much programs and gizmos is it really possible to
stuff inside it? I have the impression that it runs on steroids. :-)
Yeah, I'm using it on the EEE, which is why I'm a little worried about
trying to shove JAVA into this whole setup.
My backup plan is that I do have a little Mini-ITX board with a 64-bit
1.6Ghz processor in it sitting around, and if the EEE finally can't take it
anymore than I can use the ITX as a synth. 
11:56 a.m.
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.29.45 Ken Restivo wrote:
As I said: life is to short for using Java progs, too bad I was right :-(
Jostein
I have not
tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs
where speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that might
be the problem?
Well.... I...... tried...... it...... and..... it's..... unusably......
slow.....
12:52 p.m.
On Wednesday 19 August 2009 16:51:37 Jostein Chr. Andersen wrote:
On Wednesday August 19 2009 10.29.45 Ken Restivo
wrote:
As I said: life is to short for using Java progs, too bad I was right :-(
I had this discussion with the developer. He said he did not see this problem
on his 2ghz machines, that I with my 500mhz PIII might not find the program
usable.
I do not agree. He is drawing notes rather than using a font. There are faster
graphics libraries around for Java as well and better media libs and methods
as well. Nted uses the cairo library for speed rather than qt for such
reasons. Java can keep its UI thread live and responsive with proper
multithreaded design
For now, Impro-visor is much faster for shorter songs. Keep them short and the
program approaches usability. It needs not do heavy work in notation--the
problem is in the design. Midi play is no good. Again threading and design.
The only functionality I will tolerate the slowness is on composing
improvisations.
The easiest and least fussy alternative is still bad old noteedit.
Nted would be a second if one can tolerate moving notes around in it. Noteedit
has no cut and paste functionality at all. Nted does but ...
Mscore, if the new version has stability problems solved, is a bit heavy and
odd in the UI but is gorgeous. Closest to noteworthy or sibelius around.
Denemo is nice if one can figure out how to enter notes effectively. Feeds
lilypond.
Frescobaldi was mentioned. Use this if you want to polish up lilypond files
from other programs, i.e. noteedit or denemo.
I have
not tested it, but maybe it will be possible to install programs
where speed is not an issue on a USB-stick? ..or is it the RAM that
might be the problem?
Well.... I...... tried...... it...... and..... it's..... unusably......
slow..... 
20 Aug
20 Aug
5:27 p.m.
Ken Restivo wrote:
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is
that I can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay
chord symbols on it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that
I don't forget them.
May I suggest (as others already have) abc, in particular the very nice
abcm2ps (http://moinejf.free.fr/)? It's easy to learn, flexible and
scales well (I'm even doing big band arrangements in abc).
A simple piano-style composition (of mine) could look like this, which
is pretty enough for me:
http://web4490.web03.talkactive.net/compositions/piano/regnvejr.pdf
--
Atte
http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk http://virb.com/atte
10:14 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 09:26:59PM +0200, Atte Andre Jensen wrote:
Ken Restivo wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, advice, and help.
I think it will take me a good deal more research, RTFM'ing, testing, and
experimentation before I can pick one and go for it. In the meantime, I'm still
hobbling along typing stuff out in emacs. Chords are fine in plain text, but when it comes
to melodies with rhythms, ASCII falls flat.
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around notedit, nted, and denemo, and I'll add
ABC to the list too.
Thanks again.
-ken
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is
that I can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay
chord symbols on it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that
I don't forget them.
May I suggest (as others already have) abc, in particular the very nice
abcm2ps (http://moinejf.free.fr/)? It's easy to learn, flexible and
scales well (I'm even doing big band arrangements in abc).
A simple piano-style composition (of mine) could look like this, which
is pretty enough for me:
http://web4490.web03.talkactive.net/compositions/piano/regnvejr.pdf
21 Aug
21 Aug
4:53 a.m.
ASCII falls flat ...
???
More on ABC
Abc is the old university unix standard for coding music. It was all in 7-bit
ascii, email and junk-printer safe. It was suitable for single staff (lead
sheets like we were discussing), chords and English lyrics. This made it most
suitable for English and Celtic folk music and there are tens of thousands of
tunes in archives in various universities.
The ABC being discussed here is a front-end for abc coding. To bring this old
standard into the 21th century, it needed UTF8 for lyrics in the language of
one's choice and mutlitple staves. So there is an abc2 standard. Much of this
is implemented in this program and in noteedit as well.
I have not tried it--I should. Let you know my reactions...
7 a.m.
On 8/18/09, Ken Restivo <ken(a)restivo.org> wrote:
I'm looking for a simple, fast, easy notation
software. The goal is that I
can very quickly input a melody line or riff, maybe overlay chord symbols on
it, when learning new songs or writing them, so that I don't forget them.
This
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2009-February/058468…
might be almost, but not quite, entirely unlike what you want :-)
Andras
5567
days inactive
5570
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
24 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Andras Simon -
Atte Andre Jensen -
Bob van der Poel -
Dave Phillips -
David Baron -
drew Roberts -
Folderol -
James Stone -
Jonathan Gazeley -
Jostein Chr. Andersen -
Ken Restivo -
Nils -
rosea grammostola -
Viktor Mastoridis