On Wednesday 28 January 2004 10:44, Paul Winkler wrote: Well from the horse's mouth, http://www.lionstracs.com/index.php?module=Static_Docs&func=view&f=… the "basic" model is E$5300.... which I guess right now is probably about US$6000.... they haven't set a price on the "pro" version. Takes me back to when the first workstations came out ;) though actually, I guess stuff like the Synclavier and Fairlight cost a lot more at first. Rob

Michelle Konzack wrote: Not as high as that but quite high compared to desktop LCDs. to the cost of the hardware parts, add the cost of development, hw/sw engineers, marketing, overhead by distributors/shops and it's easy to get to high prices while the original manufacturer earns only a fraction of the price paid by the user. Anyway it could be that Lionstracs will sell parts too, eg the keyboard case, various boards etc, that way you could do a do-it-yourself keyboard much more cheaper. (eg you put in your own mainboard and stuff, no internal analog mixer you could use an external desktop LCD instead of the expensive internal one etc). Perhaps if the parts are sold in bigger numbers the price will come down. We will see, ill keep you posted what these crazy italians cook in their kitchen :-) cheers, Benno http://www.linuxsampler.org

On Thursday 29 January 2004 13:17, R Parker wrote: I'm glad to see you're able to handle your business disputes professionally and privately. Sure makes me want to pay you money. Rob

uhh... WTF? On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 10:17:24AM -0800, R Parker wrote: -- Paul Winkler http://www.slinkp.com Look! Up in the sky! It's TERRA SEEKER! (random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:17:24 -0800 (PST) R Parker <rtp405(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Someone seems to be not very familiar with how emails work here ;) Please keep your private hate orgies private, ok? Thanks, Flo -- signature :)

Dear Ron Parker: I'm not sure if this message was intended as a private reply or to the list but I guess it was the latter because if this message was private you would have sent it to Domenico and not to me. Even if I'm not implied of the dispute since it was an issue between you and Domenico (Lionstracs head) I'm very disappointed about these SILLY statements you made. Lionstracs is neither my company nor am I an employee, I'm just an external , selfemployed developer that is writing some code for this company. I have no decisional power in the company. I'm sorry that you got "fired" (fired is not the right term, see below), perhaps Domenico reacted a bit too quickly but he did it for a couple of reasons. Since Lionstracs believes in open source I think they have nothing to hide so I tell you guys how the story with Ron went: all began on irc: I was already writing some code for Lionstracs and asked Ron what he was thinking about the Mediastation. He said he would like to contribute to the project (volountarily, without expecting money in the beginning) since he owns a recoding studio and knows what studio people want. (The Mediastation, since it contains a PC can be used in a studio too, not only as a performance keyboard) The contributions would have been in form of docs, elaborating user concepts, defining what apps to put on the box etc. So far so good. I've put Ron in contact with Domenico and they talked for some time about what to do etc. Then Domenico needed to fly to the US for a meeting with a potential distributor that wanted to see what kind of machine the Mediastation is. So Ron and Domenico agreed to meet the distributor at Ron's studio so that Ron could get a MS to work with. So far so good. Meanwhile according to Domenico, Ron got paid $1500. Then after a few months came the NAMM, the distributor hosted Lionstracs at his own booth. Ron was invited there too taking his MS with it. (all expenses like hotel,taxi, food, badge etc all paid by Lionstracs). Then we stayed 2-3 days at the hotel in Anaheim before the NAMM began because we had to prepare some stuff. We tested them in the hotel, Domenico had to change some boards and panels on the MS of Ron and the first thing that upset Domenico was that the buttonpanel of Ron's MS was totally yellow and dirty because Ron smokes alot and must probably having used the MS as ashtray. I mean, you are given a prototype machine that costed hundreds of thousands of dollar to develop and you treat it that way ? I'd be a bit upset too if it was my creation. Wednesday we brought the 2 MS to the booth for setting up all cabling etc since the opening was Thursday. We got only a relatively small corner of the booth and the demo guy which played the MS live needed to face the visitors while the other MS (that Ron should have demoed) could not be put in that position (facing the visitors) or we would have closed the booth to visitor preventing them to enter it. So Domenico decided to position one MS facing the booth's wall. That way visitors could enter and see the button panel, the LCD the external monitor etc. But Ron complained and said "I don't want to look at the wall the whole day", got upset and did not talk to us for the whole day. I mean: you come to demo a machine for a company and get upset about the position of the machine, it just does not make sense to me. Everyone at the booth agreed that the right position of the 2nd MS was facing the wall so it was not just Domenico's silly idea. Then came Thursday: the NAMM opened and the keyboarder guy player the 1st MS while Ron was at the 2nd MS. Ron prepared an ardour demo but he refused to show off to people the basic features like soundpatch selection, midi players/ audio players. This stuff is so easy to learn that it does not take more than 5minutes to explain to a non computer savy person. When I told Ron, "Ron, take a couple of minutes so I show you how to use the midi players and the soundselection menu" he responded "I don't want to touch this stuff, I show people Ardour". I mean ... nothing against Ardour, it is a nice app but it is not a primary application for the MS. The MS is a keyboard made to play and this is why the midi/audio players, volume faders, mute buttons, soundselection menus are more important to show to people than ardour. All this stuff toghether has lead Domenico to take his decisions and telling Ron he is not the right person for him. So Ron stating he was fired without motives is not telling the whole story. There was no contract between Ron and Domenico, just sort of volountary trial period thus you cannot even call it firing. Ron regarding your gear (HD, mics, cables) you let at the NAMM: After the NAMM closed (sunday evening) and the flightcases arrived (where your stuff was stored), Domenico has put everything in a box and Don Peterson of Music Industries took care to ship it to your home address. Not sure if they shipped it from L.A. or if they took the stuff and shipped it from NYC where they reside. Anyway just call Ernie of Music Industries and ask. I think it just takes a few days to get delivered since they probably ship via regular mail service. So before accusing someone of stealing your stuff ask what's up instead of writing silly statemens like in your mail. I repeat, I'm disappointed about your childish behaviour, you wrote lots of nonsense to a public place which Domenico not even reads instead of writing him directly. Its a cowardly act. Plus this senseless blackmailing puts you even more on the wrong side. I mean ... with what you wrote one could just sue you for defamation, blackmailing and theft of private data of a company. Not sure what this translates to in the US in terms of jailtime and monetary fines. I'd interested what a lawyer thinks about your public statements you made, I'll let you know if you wish. Frankly speaking you produced almost nothing usable for the MS, you not even finished a short powerpoint-like presentation to run on the MS external monitor which Domenico asked you to prepare for the NAMM. But you got paid and got a free all-inclusive trip to the NAMM. So don't try to look like a victim pretending even more money (extorting money I would say) for your "lost time", that just does not make sense. BTW: there is nothing to encrypt on the Mediastation, just look at the hardisk contents, a few audio/midi players, soundmenu management, keyboard management, mixer management. It will become open source anyway so your threats would not make any difference to the company. Ron next time you have a problem with someone please avoid the Linux Audio community these public performances since it is only damaging yourself and nothing other. Leave me out too because I have no fault in this situation. I responded to a question of the other user on this mailing list and you respond with this silly crap. Perhaps you feel excluded from the Mediastation team and thus you hate everyone involved and feel the need for some revenge or reliation attacking everyone involved in this project ? It's a childish behaviour which will buy you nothing other making you look ridicule and putting you even more on the side of the wrong. If I would put me on your some low level then I'll probably telling people now about your personal problems you suffered from in the past so probably they would better understand why you reacted this way on the mailing list. But I'm not doing so, I respect you and your privacy unlike you did with others. Know what Ron ? The real nature of people comes out during conflict situations and unfortunately you demonstrated it pretty accurately. Next time you incur into a conflictual situation try to leave emotions aside and analyze it from a rational point of view. You will discover that usually decisions taken by people are caused by a serie of events and not because they get up with the wrong foot. Don't think that everyone in the world is bad and wants to fsck you as soon as you turn your back. If Domenico was a bad guy and treated people without respect (not only me) I would be the first person to leave. I'm not dependent of him. I usually work for multiple companies and one more or less does not makes the difference. A few LADers here known Domenico personally and I'm sure they have a total different opinion from those of Ron which tries to paint it as it was the evils of al evils. Please stop spreading this senseless bashing on the mailing list and give vent to your anger somewhere else. The linux audio lists are friendly places, where people talk about linux audio and not about attacking other people, and screaming out their personal problems and issues they have with some poeple. I think everyone here should contribute to keep this place in harmony. I'm sorry for my OT mail, but Ron sucked me in in this mess and I had to give a fair explanation, I don't like FUD neither in the computer world, neither in the real world. PS: Ron, if seeing messages mentioning the Mediastation here on the mailing list just place a filter to put them in the trash folder that way you eliminate the problem at the root. peace, Benno R Parker wrote:

Hallo, Rob hat gesagt: // Rob wrote: I must have missed this complains, but until now I also missed, that the Reply-to is indeed munged. As this is considered bad practice for a lot of reasons (search google for "reply-to munging harmful") and as it isn't done on most other lists I'm on, I'd like to ask the admin (hi, J.) to turn the munging off, if no one else complains. ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:51 am, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote: Or advise people with a problem with the Reply-To setting, either way, to use Kmail from KDE 3.2 as it now has an extra "Reply To Mailing-List" option that works "correctly" regardless if a Reply-To header is set or not. Kinda makes it a non-issue. --markc

On Sunday 01 February 2004 21:34, Mark Constable wrote: Actually, that would solve the reverse problem (a list whose Reply-To: isn't set at all so replies go to the poster.) What would benefit people with a problem with how lau works is something like a "Reply To Poster" option. Rob

On Monday 02 February 2004 4:37 am, Rob wrote: I'd like to add my vote for an abstention from voting :-) Can we all move along now, there's nothing to see. cheers tim hall

Hallo, Joern Nettingsmeier hat gesagt: // Joern Nettingsmeier wrote: bad ;) SF considers it bad: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=6693&group_id=1 This reply also got a good reply here: http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/listreplyto.txt Well, I wasn't aware that this was discussed here before. Actually I don't think, this has to be discussed at all, as it's one of those topics, where everyone has a solid, unchangable opinion. Thus these are my last words on this topic: personally I'm strictly against munging, the Lion's discussion may have showed one of the reasons, we all don't use Outlook, so we in general have List-reply-to functions in out mail clients, all SF lists don't munge, you cannot carry a thread across alsa-user, and so on. The arguments are probably known without me having to repeat them. So: *If* there is another vote in the future, count me in as anti-munger. If not, well, then not. ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

On Mon, Feb 02, 2004 at 06:37:28 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Yeah, same here. LA* are about the only lists I'm still on that munge. Lets have a vote. - Steve