10 Dec
2008
10 Dec
'08
3:16 a.m.
Hi,
I just want to report my experience. Since several weeks now, I and a friend
of mine were searching for a software, or an utility on Linux, capable of
synchronizing our two computers.
We could synchronize the transport, but there were always some things
missing for the tempo...
So yesterday, we decided to try netjack. Here our config :
Two laptops connected via a router/switch with ethernet.
One laptop with a sound card the other, just nothing.
the laptop with a sound card was acting as the Master
the other was acting as the Slave.
On the Slave, you open a terminal and just run jackd with the net backend :
$ jackd -R -d net
So on the master you run jackd with qjackctl like you do normally. Then you
open a terminal and run : $ jack_netsource -h 192.168.12.13 (the ip of the
slave machine)
That's all !! I couldn't imagine that it was so easy to use. And we played
severals hour without any deconnection.
Now I just have to sell my sound card :) !
By the way I would like to point up some things :
* I would like to test the --celt option. But I can't understand what the "N
bytes per period" option are.
* It seems that xruns on the master computer made some desynchronizations.
* On seq24, on the slave computer, I had to configure the option with "Jack
Transport" AND "Master JACK" ... a bit disapointing... We lost so much
time
finding this very logical configuration.
* So the problem was seq24 on the slave machine was running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real tempo synchronization.
Thank you very much for this great apps that change our lives :)
Cheers,
Mysth-R
--
*
***************************************************************************************
* {^_^} Mysth-R {^_^}
* <= Aide Auditive =>
*
* http://myspace.com/mysthr
* http://myspace.com/aideauditive
* http://mysthr.free.fr/Joomla => Site dédié à l'audio sous
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*
***************************************************************************************
10 Dec
10 Dec
6:18 a.m.
Mysth-R wrote:
Hi,
I just want to report my experience. Since several weeks now, I and a
friend of mine were searching for a software, or an utility on Linux,
capable of synchronizing our two computers.
We could synchronize the transport, but there were always some things
missing for the tempo...
So yesterday, we decided to try netjack. Here our config :
Two laptops connected via a router/switch with ethernet.
One laptop with a sound card the other, just nothing.
the laptop with a sound card was acting as the Master
the other was acting as the Slave.
On the Slave, you open a terminal and just run jackd with the net
backend : $ jackd -R -d net
So on the master you run jackd with qjackctl like you do normally. Then
you open a terminal and run : $ jack_netsource -h 192.168.12.13
<http://192.168.12.13> (the ip of the slave machine)
That's all !! I couldn't imagine that it was so easy to use. And we
played severals hour without any deconnection.
Now I just have to sell my sound card :) !
By the way I would like to point up some things :
* I would like to test the --celt option. But I can't understand what
the "N bytes per period" option are.
torben (hohn, the author of netjack) explained to me that it's the
number of bytes used for a period (i.e. the amount of compression).
say your period size is 128. uncompressed, that would be 128 * 32bit =
512 bytes.
when you say -c 40, celt will cram that signal into 40 bytes, which
corresponds to a 512/40= 12.8:1 compression ratio.
* It seems that xruns on the master computer made some
desynchronizations.
* On seq24, on the slave computer, I had to configure the option with
"Jack Transport" AND "Master JACK" ... a bit disapointing... We lost
so
much time finding this very logical configuration.
* So the problem was seq24 on the slave machine was running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with
other softwares. But I have some doubt about the real tempo synchronization.
i guess there is still an issue with jack transport over netjack.
in any case, please join #jack on irc.freenode.net, torben usually hangs
out there, and most of the testing sessions happen there.
best,
jörn
--
jörn nettingsmeier
home://germany/45128 essen/lortzingstr. 11/
http://spunk.dnsalias.org
phone://+49/201/491621
8:42 a.m.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 08:16:29AM +0100, Mysth-R wrote:
* I would like to test the --celt option. But I
can't understand what the "N
bytes per period" option are.
it tells celt to compress one period of data to N bytes.
i use -c32 for internet connections generally. sounds ok.
if you can cope with lower quality lower it and add more channels.
be careful to not max out the link, because this will give you netxruns.
using celt you will only hear a lot of them, but they degrade the
quality.
* It seems that xruns on the master computer made some
desynchronizations.
oh... right this can happen.
i need to think about how i can fix this.
* On seq24, on the slave computer, I had to configure
the option with "Jack
Transport" AND "Master JACK" ... a bit disapointing... We lost so much
time
finding this very logical configuration.
sorry, i was not really clear about this.
netjack only synchronizes the frame count. not the tempo information.
So you need a Transport Master on both ends.
The problem is that the slave transport is basically running in the
future to compensate for the latency of the network link.
I cant know of tempo changes ahead of time. So its mostly
impossible, to add N frames, to beats:bars information.
Tempo changes would at least become flakey.
* So the problem was seq24 on the slave machine was
running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real tempo synchronization.
as stated, it only synchronizes the framecount.
netjack2 seems to do complete tempo synchronisation, but i dont know
if its latency compensated. and i also had somebody reporting,
that it just fails with an assert triggered.
Thank you very much for this great apps that change our lives :)
no problem.
just spread the word. i still have the feeling, not many
people are using it :S
while there is obviously much use for it.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
10:11 a.m.
Hi,
are you running on 64bit?
Still no tempo sync, but the new release of seq24 fixes this:
[...]
Fixed Bugs
* Fixed BPM saving on 64 bit platforms."
[...]
Have a look at this post:
http://www.nabble.com/-ANN--seq24-0.9.0-%28Rejoicing-Rika%29-is-out-td20740…
)
best,
d
* So the
problem was seq24 on the slave machine was running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real tempo synchronization.
as stated, it only synchronizes the framecount.
netjack2 seems to do complete tempo synchronisation, but i dont know
if its latency compensated. and i also had somebody reporting,
that it just fails with an assert triggered.
11 Dec
11 Dec
5:09 a.m.
2008/12/10 David Adler <david.jo.adler(a)gmail.com>
Hi,
are you running on 64bit?
Still no tempo sync, but the new release of seq24 fixes this:
[...]
Fixed Bugs
* Fixed BPM saving on 64 bit platforms."
[...]
Have a look at this post:
http://www.nabble.com/-ANN--seq24-0.9.0-%28Rejoicing-Rika%29-is-out-td20740…
)
Well I was using this version of seq24. But what does "Fixed BPM saving"
means ?? I don't really understand.
You know, in seq24 there is 3 options :
Jack Tranposrt
Master Jack
Master Conditionnal
I was the slave. So in my mind, and logically, I checked "Jack Transport"
and that's all. Because I am slave I don't need the Master options.
But when my friend pressed the play button on his seq24, my "timeline
indicator" on the top rigth of the windows in seq24, was disabled. Jack
Transport was rolling, but seq24 didn't want to.
The only way to make it run is to choose Jack Transport and Master Jack.
I think this is a bug in seq24
Cheers,
Mysth-R
--
*
***************************************************************************************
* {^_^} Mysth-R {^_^}
* <= Aide Auditive =>
*
* http://myspace.com/mysthr
* http://myspace.com/aideauditive
* http://mysthr.free.fr/Joomla => Site dédié à l'audio sous
Fedora/PlanetCCRMA.
*
***************************************************************************************
> * So the problem was seq24 on the slave
machine was running at this own
> tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
> synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
> Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with
other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real tempo synchronization.
as stated, it only synchronizes the framecount.
netjack2 seems to do complete tempo synchronisation, but i dont know
if its latency compensated. and i also had somebody reporting,
that it just fails with an assert triggered.
8:15 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:09:19AM +0100, Mysth-R wrote:
2008/12/10 David Adler
<david.jo.adler(a)gmail.com>
Well I was using this version of seq24.
But what does "Fixed BPM saving"
means ?? I don't really understand.
You know, in seq24 there is 3 options :
Jack Tranposrt
Master Jack
Master Conditionnal
I was the slave. So in my mind, and logically, I checked "Jack Transport"
and that's all. Because I am slave I don't need the Master options.
But when my friend pressed the play button on his seq24, my "timeline
indicator" on the top rigth of the windows in seq24, was disabled. Jack
Transport was rolling, but seq24 didn't want to.
The only way to make it run is to choose Jack Transport and Master Jack.
I think this is a bug in seq24
only half a bug, because netjack only syncs the transport framecount.
the timebasmaster information is not transported, because i have
yet to find out, how to add a fixed number of miliseconds to that
information.
thats not really possible because of tempo changes which might happen in
the time added.
Cheers,
Mysth-R
--
*
***************************************************************************************
* {^_^} Mysth-R {^_^}
* <= Aide Auditive =>
*
* http://myspace.com/mysthr
* http://myspace.com/aideauditive
* http://mysthr.free.fr/Joomla => Site d?di? ? l'audio sous
Fedora/PlanetCCRMA.
*
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torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
11:04 a.m.
hi,
Well I was using this version of seq24. But what does
"Fixed BPM saving"
means ?? I don't really understand.
The incorrect behavior was:
when loading a previously saved session tempo was always the default 120 bpm.
You know, in seq24 there is 3 options :
Jack Tranposrt
Master Jack
Master Conditionnal
I was the slave. So in my mind, and logically, I checked "Jack Transport"
and that's all. Because I am slave I don't need the Master options.
But when my friend pressed the play button on his seq24, my "timeline
indicator" on the top rigth of the windows in seq24, was disabled. Jack
Transport was rolling, but seq24 didn't want to.
The only way to make it run is to choose Jack Transport and Master Jack.
I think this is a bug in seq24
I guess except for 'Jack Tranposrt' these settings are obsolete now.
According to the JACK API Reference Manual the former transport master
role has been divided into two layers: timebase master and transport
control.
Any client can make transport control requests.
The timebase master is not needed unless extended position information
like counting beats, timecode, etc. is required. Seq24 does not have
any of those extended features.
Regarding netjack there is a master machine and a slave machine.
Transport control requests may come from any client on the master
machine.
best,
d
3:29 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 04:04:57PM +0100, David Adler wrote:
its been like this for years now.
You know, in
seq24 there is 3 options :
Jack Tranposrt
Master Jack
Master Conditionnal
I was the slave. So in my mind, and logically, I checked "Jack Transport"
and that's all. Because I am slave I don't need the Master options.
But when my friend pressed the play button on his seq24, my "timeline
indicator" on the top rigth of the windows in seq24, was disabled. Jack
Transport was rolling, but seq24 didn't want to.
The only way to make it run is to choose Jack Transport and Master Jack.
I think this is a bug in seq24
I guess except for 'Jack Tranposrt' these settings are obsolete now.
According to the JACK API Reference Manual the former transport master
role has been divided into two layers: timebase master and transport
control. Any client can make transport control requests.
The timebase master is not needed unless extended position information
like counting beats, timecode, etc. is required. Seq24 does not have
any of those extended features.
i dont think that is correct.
seq24 does not work without a timebase master.
(either it must be the timebase master itself, or ardour for example
must be running. seq24 is not calculating the beat information based
on transport frames, which are the only transport information available,
without a master.)
Regarding netjack there is a master machine and a slave machine.
Transport control requests may come from any client on the master
machine.
yes. but without a timebase master on the slave machine seq24 hangs.
even when transport is running.
are you one of the new devs ?
if what i say is not clear to you i will provide a patch.
but dont have the time now.
So this has to wait until the weekend i guess.
--
torben Hohn
12 Dec
12 Dec
5:57 a.m.
The timebase
master is not needed unless extended position information
like counting beats, timecode, etc. is required. Seq24 does not have
any of those extended features.
i dont think that is correct.
seq24 does not work without a timebase master.
(either it must be the timebase master itself, or ardour for example
must be running. seq24 is not calculating the beat information based
on transport frames, which are the only transport information available,
without a master.)
Regarding netjack there is a master machine and a slave machine.
Transport control requests may come from any client on the master
machine.
yes. but without a timebase master on the slave machine seq24 hangs.
even when transport is running.
are you one of the new devs ?
8:03 a.m.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:57:02AM +0100, David Adler wrote:
By far not, just a user.
Probably i'll just read a bit more in order to really understand
jack transport design, thanks.
ok... i guess i need to get in touch with the devs then.
hopufully we can make things easier with 0.9.1
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
Regarding netjack there is a master machine and a slave machine.
Transport control requests may come from any client on the master
machine.
yes. but without a timebase master on the slave machine seq24 hangs.
even when transport is running.
are you one of the new devs ? 
10:48 a.m.
Am Fri, 12. Dec 2008 um 12:57:26 +0100 schrieb torbenh(a)gmx.de:
Hi Torben,
ok... i guess i need to get in touch with the devs
then.
hopufully we can make things easier with 0.9.1
you can send me the patch when you have finished this work. I will care
to add it to the repository.
Guido
--
http://www.bayernline.de/~gscholz/
http://www.lug-burghausen.org/
11:16 a.m.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:48:22PM +0100, Guido Scholz wrote:
Am Fri, 12. Dec 2008 um 12:57:26 +0100 schrieb
torbenh(a)gmx.de:
Hi Torben,
ok... will do. although i was hoping that you would do it.
you know your way through seq24 better.
I would need to find the right place first.
well... "grep jack" will sure help me ;)
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
ok... i guess i need to get in touch with the
devs then.
hopufully we can make things easier with 0.9.1
you can send me the patch when you have finished this work. I will care
to add it to the repository.
11 Dec
11 Dec
5:03 a.m.
2008/12/10 <torbenh(a)gmx.de>
Yes of course ! In fact, I think not so many people are knowing the
existence of this software. And perhaps those who know about it are a bit
scared, ... like me at the begining... Because in my mind I though about too
much difficulties ... how does it works ? is it easy to implement to use it
? In fact it was a bit obscur for me. But now I can affirm that it is very
very easy to use it. I think I will post a bit of documentation on LinuxMao,
the french Linux website.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 08:16:29AM +0100, Mysth-R
wrote:
Ok but If tempo on the master is 120 and tempo on the Slave is also 120,
should it be ok ? Would it be always synchronized after hours and hours of
rolling ?
Because for our needs, we don't want to change tempo while Jack is rolling.
Just fixe it at the begining and be sur that it will not be desynchronized
after 1 or 2 hours.Can you confirm this ?
* I would like to test the --celt option. But I
can't understand what the
"N
bytes per period" option are.
it tells celt to compress one period of data to N bytes.
i use -c32 for internet connections generally. sounds ok.
if you can cope with lower quality lower it and add more channels.
be careful to not max out the link, because this will give you netxruns.
using celt you will only hear a lot of them, but they degrade the
quality.
* It seems that xruns on the master computer made
some
desynchronizations.
oh... right this can happen.
i need to think about how i can fix this.
* On seq24, on the slave computer, I had to
configure the option with
"Jack
Transport" AND "Master JACK" ... a
bit disapointing... We lost so much
time
finding this very logical configuration.
sorry, i was not really clear about this.
netjack only synchronizes the frame count. not the tempo information.
So you need a Transport Master on both ends.
The problem is that the slave transport is basically running in the
future to compensate for the latency of the network link.
I cant know of tempo changes ahead of time. So its mostly
impossible, to add N frames, to beats:bars information.
Tempo changes would at least become flakey.
* So the problem was seq24 on the slave machine
was running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with
other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real
tempo synchronization.
as stated, it only synchronizes the framecount.
netjack2 seems to do complete tempo synchronisation, but i dont know
if its latency compensated. and i also had somebody reporting,
that it just fails with an assert triggered.
Thank you very much for this great apps that change our lives :)
no problem.
just spread the word. i still have the feeling, not many
people are using it :S
while there is obviously much use for it.
Is it possible to have more than one slave ? One master and several slave
trough local network or internet ?
By the way thank you for your precision about celt. It is not so clear in
your website.
Cheers,
Mysth-R
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
*
***************************************************************************************
* {^_^} Mysth-R {^_^}
* <= Aide Auditive =>
*
* http://myspace.com/mysthr
* http://myspace.com/aideauditive
* http://mysthr.free.fr/Joomla => Site dédié à l'audio sous
Fedora/PlanetCCRMA.
*
***************************************************************************************
7:54 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:03:22AM +0100, Mysth-R wrote:
Yes of course ! In fact, I think not so many people are knowing the
existence of this software. And perhaps those who know about it are a bit
scared, ... like me at the begining... Because in my mind I though about too
much difficulties ... how does it works ? is it easy to implement to use it
? In fact it was a bit obscur for me. But now I can affirm that it is very
very easy to use it. I think I will post a bit of documentation on LinuxMao,
the french Linux website.
cool.
yes. just start another jack_netsource.
you might want to use the -j "name" option to give it a more speaking
name.
You can even run the jack_netsource on the slave, and slave another
slave.
But if possible use a star topology.
2008/12/10 <torbenh(a)gmx.de>
If it looses the sync its a bug.
i will try to reproduce it with xruns on master.
there might be desynchronisation happening, when the master
xruns.
there is one case, where desync would happen, which is not
printed to the terminal.
and another which is quite deceiving:
"resync after freerun"
this does not resync the transport. it resyncs the internal
framecnt value, resulting in desynchronisation of transport.
however i only expect these things to happen on a high latency,
packet losing link. Not on a LAN.
In any case start stop of transport would fix it, so if you have the
feeling its loosing sync, just make a musical break.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 08:16:29AM +0100, Mysth-R
wrote:
Ok but If tempo on the master is 120 and tempo on the Slave is also 120,
should it be ok ? Would it be always synchronized after hours and hours of
rolling ?
Because for our needs, we don't want to change tempo while Jack is rolling.
Just fixe it at the begining and be sur that it will not be desynchronized
after 1 or 2 hours.Can you confirm this ? * I would like to test the --celt option. But I
can't understand what the
"N
bytes per period" option are.
it tells celt to compress one period of data to N bytes.
i use -c32 for internet connections generally. sounds ok.
if you can cope with lower quality lower it and add more channels.
be careful to not max out the link, because this will give you netxruns.
using celt you will only hear a lot of them, but they degrade the
quality.
* It seems that xruns on the master computer made
some
desynchronizations.
oh... right this can happen.
i need to think about how i can fix this.
* On seq24, on the slave computer, I had to
configure the option with
"Jack
Transport" AND "Master JACK" ... a
bit disapointing... We lost so much
time
finding this very logical configuration.
sorry, i was not really clear about this.
netjack only synchronizes the frame count. not the tempo information.
So you need a Transport Master on both ends.
The problem is that the slave transport is basically running in the
future to compensate for the latency of the network link.
I cant know of tempo changes ahead of time. So its mostly
impossible, to add N frames, to beats:bars information.
Tempo changes would at least become flakey.
* So the problem was seq24 on the slave machine was
running at this own
tempo. If the master use 120BPM and the Slave 110, they are not
synchronized. But if you put 120 on both, it seems to be synchronized...
Well I think there is a bug in seq24 or something. I didn't try with
other
softwares. But I have some doubt about the real
tempo synchronization.
as stated, it only synchronizes the framecount.
netjack2 seems to do complete tempo synchronisation, but i dont know
if its latency compensated. and i also had somebody reporting,
that it just fails with an assert triggered.
Thank you very much for this great apps that change our lives :)
no problem.
just spread the word. i still have the feeling, not many
people are using it :S
while there is obviously much use for it.
Is it possible to have more than one slave ? One master and several slave
trough local network or internet ? By the way thank you for your precision about celt. It
is not so clear in
your website.
The website is still just building up.
And the internet stuff, still needs more testing. I was not able to
connect with someone who had hydrogen running and do tranport tests.
Note: not because it did not work, simply because i did not find anyone
on irc, who was interested in testing transport.
Cheers,
Mysth-R
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
--
*
***************************************************************************************
* {^_^} Mysth-R {^_^}
* <= Aide Auditive =>
*
* http://myspace.com/mysthr
* http://myspace.com/aideauditive
* http://mysthr.free.fr/Joomla => Site d?di? ? l'audio sous
Fedora/PlanetCCRMA.
*
***************************************************************************************
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days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
David Adler -
Guido Scholz -
Joern Nettingsmeier -
Mysth-R -
torbenh＠gmx.de