3 Dec
2005
3 Dec
'05
4:02 p.m.
The possibility of using and contributing to studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool.
Since then i've had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. BUT... The
lan componets of the distro simply don't work, the USB
plug and play is more like
plug-and-if-i-feel-like-it-play, and the printer
suport is also compleatly unreliable. So, just use
mandrake for when i'm feeling musical and reboot to
Micro$oft whenever i need to do anything else, right?
well, that's getting old.
So i took a friends advice and started playing with
gentoo. After all, it's well documented. and it was
fun writing all those config files and oh so neat to
DIY, but then i tried to install Gnome, and after like
a 7 hour compile that i can't yet figure out how to
use i'm thinking, what have i gotten myself into...
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
3 Dec
3 Dec
5:09 p.m.
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 12:02 -0800, Brian Dunn wrote:
The possibility of using and contributing to studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool.
Since then i've had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. BUT... The
lan componets of the distro simply don't work, the USB
plug and play is more like
plug-and-if-i-feel-like-it-play, and the printer
suport is also compleatly unreliable. So, just use
mandrake for when i'm feeling musical and reboot to
Micro$oft whenever i need to do anything else, right?
well, that's getting old.
So i took a friends advice and started playing with
gentoo. After all, it's well documented. and it was
fun writing all those config files and oh so neat to
DIY, but then i tried to install Gnome, and after like
a 7 hour compile that i can't yet figure out how to
use i'm thinking, what have i gotten myself into...
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
Planet CCRMA. http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
5:20 p.m.
Brian Dunn wrote:
The possibility of using and contributing to studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool.
Since then i've had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. BUT... The
lan componets of the distro simply don't work, the USB
plug and play is more like
plug-and-if-i-feel-like-it-play, and the printer
suport is also compleatly unreliable. So, just use
mandrake for when i'm feeling musical and reboot to
Micro$oft whenever i need to do anything else, right?
well, that's getting old.
So i took a friends advice and started playing with
gentoo. After all, it's well documented. and it was
fun writing all those config files and oh so neat to
DIY, but then i tried to install Gnome, and after like
a 7 hour compile that i can't yet figure out how to
use i'm thinking, what have i gotten myself into...
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
Just try Slackware. Things will not work out of the box, but you'll
learn the basics of gnu/Linux and you'll have a stable and clean system,
without the need to compile everything from scratch (as with Gentoo).
I run Slackware 10.2 with kernel 2.6.13 (compiled by myself with just
the stuff I need) and the realtime-lsm module. My pc works the way I
want most of the time, more than how it used to be with a closed source
commercial operation system.
I guess there are a lot of better distributions out there. My only
advice is to avoid a distro that does everything for you. These are the
most difficult to configure and tweak if something doesn't work
plug-and-play, and less adherent to standards. And you'll learn nothing.
c.
5:33 p.m.
Cesare Marilungo wrote:
Brian Dunn wrote:
sorry, operating
The possibility of using and contributing to
studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool. Since then i've
had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. BUT... The
lan componets of the distro simply don't work, the USB
plug and play is more like
plug-and-if-i-feel-like-it-play, and the printer
suport is also compleatly unreliable. So, just use
mandrake for when i'm feeling musical and reboot to
Micro$oft whenever i need to do anything else, right?
well, that's getting old.
So i took a friends advice and started playing with
gentoo. After all, it's well documented. and it was
fun writing all those config files and oh so neat to
DIY, but then i tried to install Gnome, and after like
a 7 hour compile that i can't yet figure out how to
use i'm thinking, what have i gotten myself into...
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
Just try Slackware. Things will not work out of the box, but you'll
learn the basics of gnu/Linux and you'll have a stable and clean
system, without the need to compile everything from scratch (as with
Gentoo).
I run Slackware 10.2 with kernel 2.6.13 (compiled by myself with just
the stuff I need) and the realtime-lsm module. My pc works the way I
want most of the time, more than how it used to be with a closed
source commercial operation system.
I guess there are a lot of better distributions out there. My only
advice is to avoid a distro that does everything for you. These are
the most difficult to configure and tweak if something doesn't work
plug-and-play, and less adherent to standards. And you'll learn nothing.
c.
5:34 p.m.
Just try Slackware. Things will not work out of the
box, but you'll
learn the basics of gnu/Linux and you'll have a stable and clean
system, without the need to compile everything from scratch (as with
Gentoo).
;-)))
Needless to say that I'm very happy with my Gentoo audio box :) .
Best regards
ce
5:55 p.m.
Christoph Eckert wrote:
I luv this topic! :) Suffice to say, If we threw a bag of M&M's on the
floor, everyone would grab a different (their favorite) color!
PclinuxOS with Thac's Audio RPM's!
Soon to be another bootable LiveCD jamn packed with all the favorite
Audio apps!
Cheers,
R~
Just try
Slackware. Things will not work out of the box, but you'll
learn the basics of gnu/Linux and you'll have a stable and clean
system, without the need to compile everything from scratch (as with
Gentoo).
;-)))
Needless to say that I'm very happy with my Gentoo audio box :) .
Best regards
ce
8:03 p.m.
I luv this topic! :) Suffice to say, If we threw a bag
of M&M's on
the floor, everyone would grab a different (their favorite) color!
Hehe. Usually I tend to be quiet in these "Mine is longer than yours" or
even "What is the best Distro for xyz purpose" discussions.
Setting USE flags and the compile times are surely disadvantages of
Gentoo, but what I really like is the easy update mechanism and
(mainly) the fact that the repository really is huge and offers all
packages in recent versions. This is a major advantage over the
commercial and binary only distributions like SuSE or Mandriva.
Debian could be an alternative to avoid the compile times, but Debian
tends to be very slow in adopting new technologies.
Anyway, the optimal distribution doesn't exist. But Gentoo survived
longer than any other distro before on my machine :) .
Best regards
ce
8:58 p.m.
Hallo,
Christoph Eckert hat gesagt: // Christoph Eckert wrote:
Debian could be an alternative to avoid the compile
times, but Debian
tends to be very slow in adopting new technologies.
Make that: "... slow in adopting new technologies *into Debian
stable*". You can get very current packages if you run Debian
testing, Debian unstable or Demudi rsp. Ubuntu. And the package
count in Debian traditionally is *HUGE*.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
12:31 a.m.
On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 10:34:51PM +0100, Christoph Eckert wrote:
I would
definitely second that. I recently bought this used computer
(with relatively modest specs) and installed Gentoo Linux on it (my
first time, since I'm usually a Debian-man) and have so far enjoyed
surprisingly good performance, as far as low-latency audio goes.
Besides, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty, it can be really
fun and instructive.
Cheers,
S.M.
Just try Slackware. Things will not work out of
the box, but you'll
learn the basics of gnu/Linux and you'll have a stable and clean
system, without the need to compile everything from scratch (as with
Gentoo).
;-)))
Needless to say that I'm very happy with my Gentoo audio box :) .
Best regards
ce
--
smassy(a)sdf.lonestar.org
1:22 a.m.
Debian has been my desktop for almost seven years.
After trying Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware and some of
their derivatives, I always reverted back to Debian.
I agree that Debian Stable is a slow mover, but think
of Debian Stable and Debian Testing remotely akin to
RedHat *S and Fedora. Debian Stable moves slowly and
it seems things take forever to get there from
Testing. The same could be said for Fedora Core and
RedHat's *S commercial offerings. If you want
pre-built package rotation to move fast, don't use
RedHat *S and use Fedora. If you want your package
rotation to move faster, use Debian Testing instead of
Debian Stable. Debian is also my choice because I
have Linux installs on both Mac and PC; it is easier
to maintain both systems when using the same distro.
I was a lurker on Fernando's list, and got a great
deal of very helpful information there. However, I
took that info and applied it to my Debian Testing
system. No matter what your distro, It will deviate
from the pristine snapshot provided by pre-built
binary packages. You will probalby need to compile
something, edit a file somewhere, upgrade a library .
. .
I would suggest just pick something and stick with it
through the tough times because you will have to do
something out of your package management at some point
down the road. That statement is more true than you
think, especially with sound and music apps on Linux.
-=Sean Edwards=-
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
4:11 a.m.
Fedora rocks...
Slak for me though......
it seems pure.....
Debian has been my desktop for almost seven years.
After trying Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware and some of
their derivatives, I always reverted back to Debian.
I agree that Debian Stable is a slow mover, but think
of Debian Stable and Debian Testing remotely akin to
RedHat *S and Fedora. Debian Stable moves slowly and
it seems things take forever to get there from
Testing. The same could be said for Fedora Core and
RedHat's *S commercial offerings. If you want
pre-built package rotation to move fast, don't use
RedHat *S and use Fedora. If you want your package
rotation to move faster, use Debian Testing instead of
Debian Stable. Debian is also my choice because I
have Linux installs on both Mac and PC; it is easier
to maintain both systems when using the same distro.
I was a lurker on Fernando's list, and got a great
deal of very helpful information there. However, I
took that info and applied it to my Debian Testing
system. No matter what your distro, It will deviate
from the pristine snapshot provided by pre-built
binary packages. You will probalby need to compile
something, edit a file somewhere, upgrade a library .
. .
I would suggest just pick something and stick with it
through the tough times because you will have to do
something out of your package management at some point
down the road. That statement is more true than you
think, especially with sound and music apps on Linux.
-=Sean Edwards=-
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the
Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be
replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory which states that this has already happened.
-- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
7:11 a.m.
Besides, if you don't mind getting your hands
dirty, it can be really
fun and instructive.
It's surely not for the Linux n00b, but I think that it is *much* easier
to edit a config file instead of struggling with certain GUI setup
tools. I remember that I once tried to configure a DSL connection in
Mandrake 10, and I did fail. Finally, learn edit the config files and
you're done.
That's why I like Gentoo for not trying to invent yet another setup
tool :) .
Best regards
ce
3 Dec
3 Dec
5:57 p.m.
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 22:20 +0100, Cesare Marilungo wrote:
I guess there are a lot of better distributions out
there. My only
advice is to avoid a distro that does everything for you. These are the
most difficult to configure and tweak if something doesn't work
plug-and-play, and less adherent to standards. And you'll learn nothing.
I really doubt that. The distributions that have automatic hardware
detection and setup etc still use the same config files as more
barebones distributions, and editing a config file on Mandrake is no
harder than doing it on Slackware.
--
Lars Luthman
PGP key: http://www.d.kth.se/~d00-llu/pgp_key.php
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
6:21 p.m.
Lars Luthman wrote:
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 22:20 +0100, Cesare Marilungo
wrote:
That's right. But you're forced to learn how to do something if the
distro doesn't do it for you. :-)
c.
I guess there are a lot of better distributions
out there. My only
advice is to avoid a distro that does everything for you. These are the
most difficult to configure and tweak if something doesn't work
plug-and-play, and less adherent to standards. And you'll learn nothing.
I really doubt that. The distributions that have automatic hardware
detection and setup etc still use the same config files as more
barebones distributions, and editing a config file on Mandrake is no
harder than doing it on Slackware.
8:05 p.m.
That's right. But you're forced to learn how
to do something if the
distro doesn't do it for you. :-)
Seconded. I remember the times as I used Mandrake 10. Setting up DSL via
DrakConf was a pain. So I edited the config file manually and I was
done.
The evil thing with all these GUI config frontends is that you are not
told which config files these edit. It's as worse as on other operating
systems.
Best regards
ce
6:32 p.m.
advice is to
avoid a distro that does everything for you. These are the
most difficult to configure and tweak if something doesn't work
plug-and-play, and less adherent to standards. And you'll learn nothing.
I really doubt that. The distributions that have automatic hardware
detection and setup etc still use the same config files as more
barebones distributions, and editing a config file on Mandrake is no
harder than doing it on Slackware.
if only it were that simple.. take things like the builtin GUI
utilities being incredibly dumb and overwriting settings you changed
behind the scenes. compared with the etc-update util in gentoo (or the
similar thing in debian) these 'autoconfiguring' distrii often have no
inkling that a user might want to override only certain things
so my vote should be apparent..
6:23 p.m.
Hallo,
Brian Dunn hat gesagt: // Brian Dunn wrote:
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
AGNULA/Demudi.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
8:37 p.m.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Brian Dunn hat gesagt: // Brian Dunn wrote:
AGNULA/Demudi.
Yep and 64studio for us who think we need speed!!
Cheers
Bob
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
Ciao
--
Bearmusic
hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
5 Dec
5 Dec
7:11 a.m.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Brian Dunn hat gesagt: // Brian Dunn wrote:
I second this suggestion wholeheartedly. I've heard very good things
about Planet CCRMA, but have no experience with it.
AGNULA/Demudi gives the best of all world (IMHO). Debian packages, easy
installation, works out of the box for music and it's free as in beer
and freedom.
Regards,
Bill
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
AGNULA/Demudi.
Ciao
3 Dec
3 Dec
9:28 p.m.
On 12/3/05, Brian Dunn <job17and9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
I have two opinions:
1) If I want *exactly* what Fernando provides on the Planet site, no
more and no less, then PlanetCCRMA is the best I know of. It's well
supported in the audio area by a great guy. It has a good mailing list
with helpful people. (Of which I hope I'm one once in awhile anyway.)
Overall very positive, but it has two downsides:
a) If you need ANYTHING that's not part of the Planet apt system then
be prepared for RPM hell. At least that's my experience. Email, DVD
stuff, etc.
b) Pick your Fedora version and be prepared to upgrade, upgrade,
upgrade. Every release of FC# is an opportunity to rebuild your system
from scratch. I know some folks report that they just do an upgrade
and it works for them but I'm sure that not a single one ever worked
for me.
2) The best overall distro, in my experience, for package availablity
and stability is Gentoo. I have pretty much every app I can think of
using. When I want to use something that's not in portage I have never
had to find a library that wasn't already supported. Best of all I
have a 3 year old Gentoo system that is completely equal to my newest
Gentoo system. The portage/emerge system means never having to say
'upgrade'.
There are other good options - DeMudi being themost notible. I've
never run it but we hear good things. There are other minor distros
like 64studio and PCOS (I think that's what it's called) that are
worth looking at. With all the press about Ubuntu I'd imaginge it's
worth a look, but I don't know who uses it for audio.
Probably this is a rehash of the other responses. Hope it added something.
cheers,
Mark
9:58 p.m.
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 17:28 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
On 12/3/05, Brian Dunn <job17and9(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hmmmm, I'd dare say this is a bit extreme :-)
I'm not saying this is easy, of course.
I'm not saying that it is better or greater than other distros, either.
I'm not saying that I can be objective :-) ;-) :-p
The ammount of work depends on what "anything" is. Anything that is in
Fedora Core should be easy (includes email I guess). Anything in other
apt/yum repositories is usually fine. If you want to build your own
packages from source you will need to install the required development
packages and maybe that is what you mean by "RPM hell[*]", but I imagine
that should be the case in other distros as well - unless they don't
make a separation between base and developer packages, perhaps that's
the case with gentoo. You may run into stumbling blocks if whatever you
are trying to build depends on newer versions of core packages than the
ones provided by the base distro, that can of course be a problem.
YMMV...
-- Fernando
[*] usually "RPM Hell" was meant to describe the situation in which you
want to install an isolated package (an RPM in the case of rpm based
distros), and it requires another package you don't have, and after
finding it it requires another, and so on and so forth. This particular
situation is old history, these days you can use dependency resolvers
such as apt, yum or smart to resolve dependencies automatically for
you.
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
I have two opinions:
1) If I want *exactly* what Fernando provides on the Planet site, no
more and no less, then PlanetCCRMA is the best I know of. It's well
supported in the audio area by a great guy. It has a good mailing list
with helpful people. (Of which I hope I'm one once in awhile anyway.)
Overall very positive, but it has two downsides:
a) If you need ANYTHING that's not part of the Planet apt system then
be prepared for RPM hell. At least that's my experience. Email, DVD
stuff, etc.
4 Dec
4 Dec
3:06 p.m.
On 12/3/05, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <nando(a)ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 17:28 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
Yeah, most probably you are correct, but it's my unfortunatel view of
the world of prepackaged distros. They work really well when I use
exactly what they provide. As soon as I go outside of that boundry
they get dodgy in my experience.
On 12/3/05, Brian Dunn
<job17and9(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hmmmm, I'd dare say this is a bit extreme :-) So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
I have two opinions:
1) If I want *exactly* what Fernando provides on the Planet site, no
more and no less, then PlanetCCRMA is the best I know of. It's well
supported in the audio area by a great guy. It has a good mailing list
with helpful people. (Of which I hope I'm one once in awhile anyway.)
Overall very positive, but it has two downsides:
a) If you need ANYTHING that's not part of the Planet apt system then
be prepared for RPM hell. At least that's my experience. Email, DVD
stuff, etc.
I'm not saying this is easy, of course.
I'm not saying that it is better or greater than other distros, either.
I'm not saying that I can be objective :-) ;-) :-p
As objective as anyone about distro religion and you have 100x more
rights to speak you mind based on the work you've done.
The ammount of work depends on what "anything" is. Anything that is in
Fedora Core should be easy (includes email I guess).
Yes, there are many good solutions for email clients. I should not
have included this.
Anything in other
apt/yum repositories is usually fine.
This is where I ran into many problems and eventually got put off.
If you want to build your own
packages from source you will need to install the required development
packages and maybe that is what you mean by "RPM hell[*]", but I imagine
that should be the case in other distros as well - unless they don't
make a separation between base and developer packages, perhaps that's
the case with gentoo. You may run into stumbling blocks if whatever you
are trying to build depends on newer versions of core packages than the
ones provided by the base distro, that can of course be a problem.
That is the problem I ran into many times. I got started with some app
on Gentoo and built, for instance, Aqualung. The Aqualung guys used
whatever library they wanted to use, and I had no problem finding it
on Gentoo. Aqualung worked. Then I wanted to build it on FC and found
that the library didn't exist. You would look into installing some
RPM, but maybe it didn't come from the same depository I was getting
everything else. I start changing apt setup files to get stuff, then
forget I've made changes, then download stuff the next day that maybe
I shouldn't have downloaded and after a few weeks somethign gets
flakey.
Clearly this sort of experience is driven by my lack of structure and
background in properly administering a Linux machine. I'm sure that FC
works well for folks who know what they are doing. (I'm not part of
that group.) That said, I still have one FC2/Planet machine here. It's
working quite well and probably will for years to come if I don't
change things.
YMMV...
-- Fernando
[*] usually "RPM Hell" was meant to describe the situation in which you
want to install an isolated package (an RPM in the case of rpm based
distros), and it requires another package you don't have, and after
finding it it requires another, and so on and so forth. This particular
situation is old history, these days you can use dependency resolvers
such as apt, yum or smart to resolve dependencies automatically for
you.
yep.
12 Dec
12 Dec
5:40 p.m.
On Sunday 04 December 2005 19:06, Mark Knecht was like:
Yeah, most probably you are correct, but it's my
unfortunatel view of
the world of prepackaged distros. They work really well when I use
exactly what they provide. As soon as I go outside of that boundry
they get dodgy in my experience.
This is also true of Debian and DeMuDi to a certain extent, it's just that the
boundary is way bigger. I think it's useful to try to quantify the
differences between distros, rather than simply state our (DeMuDi rocks!-)
value judgements. PlanetCCRMA, seems more up to date and focussed.
<disclaimer and doxology>
I'm only offering my observations because (I can't resist and) I hope it will
be useful to someone like Brian attempting to decide which distro next. I
have nothing but the utmost respect and gratitude for the work that people
like Fernando and Free and many others on this list have done to make this
software available for ordinary musicians. Snuh.
</disclaimer>
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
3 Dec
3 Dec
11:49 p.m.
On Sat, 2005-12-03 at 17:28 -0800, Mark Knecht wrote:
On 12/3/05, Brian Dunn <job17and9(a)yahoo.com>
wrote:
Yep, you're one of them ;-)
So does anybody out there have the best of all
worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
I have two opinions:
1) If I want *exactly* what Fernando provides on the Planet site, no
more and no less, then PlanetCCRMA is the best I know of. It's well
supported in the audio area by a great guy. It has a good mailing list
with helpful people. (Of which I hope I'm one once in awhile anyway.)
Overall very positive, but it has two downsides:
a) If you need ANYTHING that's not part of the
Planet apt system then
be prepared for RPM hell. At least that's my experience. Email, DVD
stuff, etc.
I don't have any trouble with things that aren't covered in CCRMA.
I just download the source and build it. No RPMs = no RPM hell. I
normally build JACK, Ardour, and JAMin from source anyway.
b) Pick your Fedora version and be prepared to
upgrade, upgrade,
upgrade. Every release of FC# is an opportunity to rebuild your system
from scratch. I know some folks report that they just do an upgrade
and it works for them but I'm sure that not a single one ever worked
for me.
This is true in part. I NEVER upgrade. I also have never had one
work correctly and every time I tried it left a lot of loose ends laying
around. On the other hand, I stayed on FC1 for a couple of years before
I switched up to FC4 (three days ago) because it was stable. I wouldn't
recommend FC4 from the Planet just yet though as it is still a work in
progress.
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
4 Dec
4 Dec
6:58 a.m.
With all the press about Ubuntu I'd imaginge
it's
worth a look, but I don't know who uses it for audio.
I heard rumors that it's a bit hard to convert it into an audio machine,
but I also heard about people who have been very successful using it
for audio.
Best regards
ce
8:49 p.m.
On 12/4/05, Christoph Eckert <ce(a)christeck.de> wrote:
I'm actually in the middle of attempting to do this with Ubuntu 5.10,
"breezy badger." So far I've had no problems with finding
applications, but getting a kernel that is suitable for low-latency
operation was a bit of a hassle (I should note here that I have
compiled my own kernel only once, so I have to have baby-steps
instructions). I found this:
http://doc.gwos.org/index.php/2.6.14_Vanilla
I've followed these instructions, and turned on the preemptable kernel
function in the kernel config, and so far so good. My hardware is
crap, though - I haven't actually tried this on a decent computer yet,
but I'm sure it would work better.
As far as Ubuntu in general is concerned, I love it. I've used
Slackware for a year or two in an attempt to learn as much as I could
about linux, but end the end, I got tired of trying to make everything
work. There is something wonderfully easy about the apt repositories.
I fully recommend it.
Josh
With all the press about Ubuntu I'd imaginge
it's
worth a look, but I don't know who uses it for audio.
I heard rumors that it's a bit hard to convert it into an audio machine,
but I also heard about people who have been very successful using it
for audio. 
9:38 p.m.
On 12/4/05, Christoph Eckert <ce(a)christeck.de> wrote:
Can you elaborate on what makes it hard? Is it just that the kernel is
not optimised for this sort of stuff or are there other things that
make ubuntu not suitable for linux audio?
I'm just starting to look at getting into linux audio and am a bit of
an ubuntu tragic so am interested in what makes it unsuitable.
Cheers.....Steve
With all the press about Ubuntu I'd imaginge
it's
worth a look, but I don't know who uses it for audio.
I heard rumors that it's a bit hard to convert it into an audio machine,
but I also heard about people who have been very successful using it
for audio.
10:16 p.m.
I think that it is very suitable, *if* you know how to create your own
kernel that allows for jack, et al to run with preemptable
capabilities. I am not very knowledgeable with compiling kernels, so
I had to wait until someone else provided a how-to for getting my own
kernel.
Quite the contrary, I see big things on the horizon for Ubuntu. This
might be heresy, but I would like for Agnula to merge its efforts in
with Ubuntu, thus making both distributions more complete.
Josh
On 12/4/05, Steve Lindsay <stephen.a.lindsay(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/4/05, Christoph Eckert <ce(a)christeck.de>
wrote:
Can you elaborate on what makes it hard? Is it just that the kernel is
not optimised for this sort of stuff or are there other things that
make ubuntu not suitable for linux audio?
I'm just starting to look at getting into linux audio and am a bit of
an ubuntu tragic so am interested in what makes it unsuitable.
Cheers.....Steve
--
Josh
With all the press about Ubuntu I'd imaginge
it's
worth a look, but I don't know who uses it for audio.
I heard rumors that it's a bit hard to convert it into an audio machine,
but I also heard about people who have been very successful using it
for audio.
12 Dec
12 Dec
5:17 p.m.
On Monday 05 December 2005 02:16, Josh Lawrence was like:
I think that it is very suitable, *if* you know how to
create your own
kernel that allows for jack, et al to run with preemptable
capabilities. I am not very knowledgeable with compiling kernels, so
I had to wait until someone else provided a how-to for getting my own
kernel.
Quite the contrary, I see big things on the horizon for Ubuntu. This
might be heresy, but I would like for Agnula to merge its efforts in
with Ubuntu, thus making both distributions more complete.
A/DeMuDi already uses a fair amount of Ubuntu packages and there has been
considerable testing of DeMuDi + Ubuntu systems. I confess I don't know how
it compares. Both are Debian based distros, DeMuDi is specifically a Custom
Debian Distribution. I find Ubuntu a bit too Mandrake-like for my tastes, but
I can see how other people might like that. I would start getting annoyed if
I suddenly found I couldn't log in as root after upgrading and was tied to a
GNOME desktop with all my essential services turned off!-]
DeMuDi exists because the focus on multimedia integration wasn't there in the
parent distro. It will continue to exist until such time as Debian or Ubuntu
or whatever ships with ("pro") audio applications that simply work out of the
box. Merging AGNULA with Canonical seems an unlikely business proposition to
me, but who knows? I've not seen an awful lot of interest from the Ubuntu
camp, but then I wasn't really paying attention. Ooh! I just got deja-vu. ;)
I would welcome any efforts from Ubuntu to become more compatible with DeMuDi.
Do the DeMuDi multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
7:26 p.m.
On Monday 12 December 2005 22:55, reubenf(a)sonic.net was like:
Gotcha!
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
Do the DeMuDi
multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
Not, IME, if you're using the Ubuntu nvidia drivers. I know I could
compile my own nvidia driver (have done in the past on other distros) but
I'm experimenting with other RT stuff 1st.
13 Dec
13 Dec
12:08 p.m.
On 12/12/05, tim hall <tech(a)glastonburymusic.org.uk> wrote:
I would start getting annoyed if
I suddenly found I couldn't log in as root after upgrading and was tied to a
GNOME desktop with all my essential services turned off!-]
Yes, that is certainly a consideration. You can install fluxbox and
openbox, but I can attest that if you install flux, you will be left
to build all of your menus by yourself. As much as I enjoy tinkering
around with my computer, building the perfect menu is something I
would rather leave to someone else :)
Do the DeMuDi multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu
then?
--
I haven't tried, but I can tell you that I just *finally* got my
Radeon 9200 working with a standard Ubuntu kernel, so it is unlikely
that I'm going to mess with that anytime soon. I think the best
option for me is to start bugging the Ubuntu developers to start
making "official" RT kernels available.
--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
12:42 p.m.
On Tuesday 13 December 2005 16:08, Josh Lawrence was like:
It's probably worth them taking a look at the work Free and others have done
in making reliable multimedia kernels for debian based systems. I'm sure
there's lots of room for mutually beneficial exchanges of ideas and
information here.
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
On 12/12/05, tim hall
<tech(a)glastonburymusic.org.uk> wrote:
I had problems installing other favourite parts of my desktop either rox or
fbpanel, I don't remember which. As my meagre contribution to the distro has
basically involved helping to rationalise the menu system around music apps
I'd be sad to see that work wasted. I've got lots of respect for what Ubuntu
do, but I find that DeMuDi gives me more flexibility with audio given the
main priority from the outset.
I would start getting annoyed if
I suddenly found I couldn't log in as root after upgrading and was tied
to a GNOME desktop with all my essential services turned off!-]
Yes, that is certainly a consideration. You can install fluxbox and
openbox, but I can attest that if you install flux, you will be left
to build all of your menus by yourself. As much as I enjoy tinkering
around with my computer, building the perfect menu is something I
would rather leave to someone else :) Do the DeMuDi
multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
--
I haven't tried, but I can tell you that I just *finally* got my
Radeon 9200 working with a standard Ubuntu kernel, so it is unlikely
that I'm going to mess with that anytime soon. I think the best
option for me is to start bugging the Ubuntu developers to start
making "official" RT kernels available. 
3:01 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 10:08 -0600, Josh Lawrence wrote:
If by "got my Radeon 9200 working" you mean "you got the proprietary ATI
driver to work" then nope, this will never "work" with the RT kernel.
If you're willing to drop your insistence on using prioprietary drivers
and/or buying hardware that requires them, then you're in good shape!
That's one of the many reasons why proprietary drivers are evil and
rude, they tie you to a limited number of kernel version and thus
prevent any progress from happening.
Lee
Do the DeMuDi
multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
--
I haven't tried, but I can tell you that I just *finally* got my
Radeon 9200 working with a standard Ubuntu kernel, so it is unlikely
that I'm going to mess with that anytime soon. I think the best
option for me is to start bugging the Ubuntu developers to start
making "official" RT kernels available. 
8:11 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/14/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 10:08 -0600, Josh Lawrence
wrote:
If by "got my Radeon 9200 working" you mean "you got the proprietary ATI
driver to work" then nope, this will never "work" with the RT kernel.
If you're willing to drop your insistence on using prioprietary drivers
and/or buying hardware that requires them, then you're in good shape!
That's one of the many reasons why proprietary drivers are evil and
rude, they tie you to a limited number of kernel version and thus
prevent any progress from happening.
Lee
are you a one reply beast or what? I admit many of your hints are
useful but what do you suggest people who want hardware opengl use? if
you can create, i.e design and build, a card with comparable (3D)
performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le sli, write open source drivers,
for around 30 euro, i.e the price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very
happy to buy one from you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll
stick with my nvidia.
Loki
p.s yes, i make music and play red orchestra on the same machine, i'm
sorry i'm a bad person. My only other computer a 650 p3 isn't really
up to either task.
Do the
DeMuDi multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
--
I haven't tried, but I can tell you that I just *finally* got my
Radeon 9200 working with a standard Ubuntu kernel, so it is unlikely
that I'm going to mess with that anytime soon. I think the best
option for me is to start bugging the Ubuntu developers to start
making "official" RT kernels available. 
10:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison wrote:
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and build, a
card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up.
I remember having to turn down my graphics acceleration settings
to reduce xruns in my distant Windows past, so it's not like the
situation is unique to free software.
Rob
11:04 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 21:28 -0500, Rob wrote:
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison wrote:
i don't know anything about the ATI drivers, but the nvidia ones work
fine on an RT kernel. they provide a stub/wrapper that is recompiled as
part of driver installation. hence, the actual driver interface is
always built against your actual kernel, but it just proxies into the
real code. obviously, they have to have a driver for a kernel close to
the one that you applied the RT patch to, but this so far has not been a
problem.
--p
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and
build, a card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up.
14 Dec
14 Dec
12:37 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/14/05, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 21:28 -0500, Rob wrote:
yeah, i use ingos RT, 64 bit and the nvidia 64 bit drivers. Though
actually the one i'm using now isn't 100% stable.
Loki
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison
wrote:
i don't know anything about the ATI drivers, but the nvidia ones work
fine on an RT kernel. they provide a stub/wrapper that is recompiled as
part of driver installation. hence, the actual driver interface is
always built against your actual kernel, but it just proxies into the
real code. obviously, they have to have a driver for a kernel close to
the one that you applied the RT patch to, but this so far has not been a
problem.
--p
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and
build, a card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up. 
6:14 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:06:39 -0500
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
i don't know anything about the ATI drivers, but
the nvidia ones work
fine on an RT kernel. they provide a stub/wrapper that is recompiled as
part of driver installation. hence, the actual driver interface is
always built against your actual kernel, but it just proxies into the
real code. obviously, they have to have a driver for a kernel close to
the one that you applied the RT patch to, but this so far has not been a
problem.
One might get this impression when not installing kernel debugging
messages with RT kernels. If one does, one sees dmesg output plastered
with BUG's. Especially by modprobe when loading the nvidia module. And
there's of course these "nvidia: uh oh, sleeping while holding a lock!!"
(paraphrased) messages, too.
If you don't make backups regularly, don't use the nvidia drivers
together with -rt kernels.
This situation might be different for different kernel versions, but it
is a _real_ problem.
I always build two kernels. One with -rt and one w/o. The latter is for
gaming (naturally i have to xorg.conf's too)..
Flo
--
Palimm Palimm!
http://tapas.affenbande.org
6:19 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 22:06 -0500, Paul Davis wrote:
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 21:28 -0500, Rob wrote:
I'm running the latest NVIDIA driver on an Athlon 64 with the FC4
planet-core-edge kernel with no problems at all.
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison
wrote:
i don't know anything about the ATI drivers, but the nvidia ones work
fine on an RT kernel. they provide a stub/wrapper that is recompiled as
part of driver installation. hence, the actual driver interface is
always built against your actual kernel, but it just proxies into the
real code. obviously, they have to have a driver for a kernel close to
the one that you applied the RT patch to, but this so far has not been a
problem.
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and
build, a card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up.
7:07 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/14/05, Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> wrote:
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 22:06 -0500, Paul Davis wrote:
stability isn't great here with mandriva multimedia kernel,or self
compiled RT kernel, though actually the only problem i've had is
playing movies, where after around 20 mins to half an hour of playing
it locks up hard. I think it's something to do with power saving, but
it doesn't do it if i use sdl instead of xv.... no idea why. So i've
found a work around but not a solution. I use same kernel for music
and games.
Loki
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 21:28 -0500, Rob wrote:
I'm running the latest NVIDIA driver on an Athlon 64 with the FC4
planet-core-edge kernel with no problems at all.
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison
wrote:
i don't know anything about the ATI drivers, but the nvidia ones work
fine on an RT kernel. they provide a stub/wrapper that is recompiled as
part of driver installation. hence, the actual driver interface is
always built against your actual kernel, but it just proxies into the
real code. obviously, they have to have a driver for a kernel close to
the one that you applied the RT patch to, but this so far has not been a
problem.
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and
build, a card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up.
11:01 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/13/05, Rob <lau(a)kudla.org> wrote:
On Tue December 13 2005 19:11, Loki Davison wrote:
This discussion is very helpful to me, I was unaware that proprietary
drivers such as ATI's would cause such problems with a RT kernel. It
was a video card that I had leftover from my Windows days, and since I
don't have any $ to buy a new one, I'll just have to keep it for
awhile.
By the way, what is the proper name for a kernel that has been
prepared for multimedia work? Realtime kernel? Low-latency kernel?
--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
opengl use? if you can create, i.e design and
build, a card
with comparable (3D) performance to my nvidia pci-e 6600le
sli, write open source drivers, for around 30 euro, i.e the
price i payed for my nvidia, i'd be very happy to buy one from
you, as would the rest of us. Otherwise i'll stick with my
nvidia.
Lee wasn't suggesting you drop your use of nvidia.... he was
suggesting that if you want proprietary video drivers, and
you're dissatisfied with your machine's realtime performance,
you're either going to have to lobby nvidia (or ati) to make
their stuff work with realtime kernels, since they have access
to their code and the kernel guys don't, or you're going to have
to suck it up.
I remember having to turn down my graphics acceleration settings
to reduce xruns in my distant Windows past, so it's not like the
situation is unique to free software.
Rob
2:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 09:01 -0600, Josh Lawrence wrote:
This discussion is very helpful to me, I was unaware
that proprietary
drivers such as ATI's would cause such problems with a RT kernel. It
was a video card that I had leftover from my Windows days, and since I
don't have any $ to buy a new one, I'll just have to keep it for
awhile.
Well my point was that proprietary drivers are wrong, period, from both
a technical and ethical standpoint - it was not specific to the RT
kernel. It's not about whether they are buggy or not. When Linux users
buy hardware that requires propriertary drivers you are impeding the
progress of Linux and all free software. It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as far as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my
time.
Lee
2:29 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wednesday 14 December 2005 18:01, Lee Revell was like:
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as far
as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my
time.
Fortunately there are many of us running 100%/99% Free systems and we're
extremely grateful for the work that you do. No, it isn't wasted. ;)
I think people understandably get very excited about the possibilities
provided by crossover projects and it can be nice to have something to
counter "I bet your Linux box can't do That" with. Personally I might think
about getting excited when manufacturers start bringing out native linux
games. I'm sure the highest purpose of Linux is something to do with the fact
that we don't have to tied down to such a limited perspective.
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
3:49 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
tim hall wrote:
On Wednesday 14 December 2005 18:01, Lee Revell was
like:
Hi
Well for me I'm 100% linux on my Audio as you dont miss what you havn't
had!!
As I'm using 64studio all the time I expect things like printers and
OOffice to
not work as it's not core to sound production.
A pain yes, but well better than trying to open closed windoze!!
Pople here in Wales are very impressed by what we are doing on Linux re
DAW and aree itching to have a go.
When we got the 3 tunes into the charts on some website ( No 1 - 3 and
7!) they were amazed to learn its all done on Linux
Cheers
Bob
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as
far as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my
time.
Fortunately there are many of us running 100%/99% Free systems and we're
extremely grateful for the work that you do. No, it isn't wasted. ;)
I think people understandably get very excited about the possibilities
provided by crossover projects and it can be nice to have something to
counter "I bet your Linux box can't do That" with. Personally I might think
about getting excited when manufacturers start bringing out native linux
games. I'm sure the highest purpose of Linux is something to do with the fact
that we don't have to tied down to such a limited perspective.
5:40 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wednesday 14 December 2005 19:49, frank smith was like:
Well for me I'm 100% linux on my Audio as you dont
miss what you havn't
had!!
*Hi fives*
Heh.
As I'm using 64studio all the time I expect things
like printers and
OOffice to
not work as it's not core to sound production.
A pain yes, but well better than trying to open closed windoze!!
Pople here in Wales are very impressed by what we are doing on Linux re
DAW and aree itching to have a go.
When we got the 3 tunes into the charts on some website ( No 1 - 3 and
7!) they were amazed to learn its all done on Linux
Yee Haaaar!!!
You're doing a grand job there Bob. :)
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
2:34 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
--- Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 09:01 -0600, Josh Lawrence
wrote:
The reason you piss people off is because every
helpful reply you make has a snide condescending
remark in it somewhere. Very seldomly do you reply
without registering your intolerance and your
superiority over whomever it is that you are
supposedly helping.
Why should anyone even bother posting on this mailing
list when they will be expecting you to insult them?
ron
This discussion is very helpful to me, I was
unaware that proprietary
drivers such as ATI's would cause such
problems
with a RT kernel. It
was a video card that I had leftover from my
Windows days, and since I
don't have any $ to buy a new one, I'll
just have
to keep it for
> awhile.
> Well my point was that proprietary drivers are
wrong, period, from both
a technical and ethical standpoint - it was not
specific to the RT
kernel. It's not about whether they are buggy or
not. When Linux users
buy hardware that requires propriertary drivers you
are impeding the
progress of Linux and all free software. It would
be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers
but that's not the
case.
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as far
as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to
run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some
game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux
really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so
then I'm wasting my
time.
Lee
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
2:53 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 10:34 -0800, R Parker wrote:
The reason you piss people off is because every
helpful reply you make has a snide condescending
remark in it somewhere. Very seldomly do you reply
without registering your intolerance and your
superiority over whomever it is that you are
supposedly helping.
Why should anyone even bother posting on this mailing
list when they will be expecting you to insult them?
You are probably right. Really, I'm a nice guy, I guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee
3:49 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
You are probably right.
Thanks for exposing me as a jackass with your
understanding response. :)
ron
Really, I'm a nice guy, guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing
lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged
at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
4:18 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
R Parker wrote:
ROTF....this, if nothing else is a true testament to the "adult" nature
of the Linux community!!
FWIW, I don't know Lee personally, but he is first with the responses
always regarding our cornerstone topics....RT kernel operation and
related. Personally, although I have had NIL time to play with my linux
audio stuff lately, I for one am glad he's here!!! :) Even if a TAD
thorny at times! LOL
Cheers,
R~
You are
probably right.
Thanks for exposing me as a jackass with your
understanding response. :)
ron
Really, I'm a nice guy, guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing
lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged
at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee
3:51 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/14/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
You are probably right. Really, I'm a nice guy, I
guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee
Lee, since I'm the person the original comment was directed to, let me
tell you that I quite enjoyed it. But I'm kinda masochistic :)
Anyway, no offense taken.
Back to the discussion at hand...I installed the realtime-lsm module
on my Ubuntu box last night, and jackd runs with the realtime option
enabled. I am, however, still getting xruns, and I'm not really sure
why (as Lee or someone pointed out, it may be because I'm running
Ubuntu's ATI drivers). So I'll continue to report my progress with
using Ubuntu as a multimedia machine as I get time.
--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
6:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/14/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 10:34 -0800, R Parker wrote:
Lee,
You've offended me at least a once or twice... ;-)
That said you've helped me at least a million times more. I, for
one, am happoy that you're here.
- Mark
The reason you piss people off is because every
helpful reply you make has a snide condescending
remark in it somewhere. Very seldomly do you reply
without registering your intolerance and your
superiority over whomever it is that you are
supposedly helping.
Why should anyone even bother posting on this mailing
list when they will be expecting you to insult them?
You are probably right. Really, I'm a nice guy, I guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee
15 Dec
15 Dec
1:54 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On 12/15/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/14/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com>
wrote:
I have to admit, i was getting a touch annoyed there, as not all of us
have limitless money to get what we want as far as opensource and fast
goes. I'm still happy this list ends up friendly and happy. I was
looking for a card with opensource drivers when i got my nvidia, but i
really have to admit i'm very happy with my nvidia card with it's evil
commercial drivers. It was 30 euro, and for that price you can't get a
lot of pci-e stuff, with 256 mb of DDR3 mem that can play Red
Orchestra (native linux) etc at max quality and good frame rates.
to quote the opengraphics faq
"
*Will I be able to play Doom 3 with this hardware?*
Nope, but at the time of this writing, there is no graphics card on
the market on which you can play Doom 3 well while using open source
drivers. Less demanding games are likely to work however.
"
my 6600le sli, plays doom 3 at 75 frames a sec 1024 X 768, at good
quality settings. It's still a dull game though ;-) The opengraphics
site says it's only pci, then agp. I've got pci-e. Given that the
opengraphics card doesn't actually exist yet, but comparing the
specs...
6600le opengraphics
1.2 Billion pixels/s :: 400 million pixels/s
4 Pixel Pipelines at 425 :: Dual pixel pipeline at 200 Mhz
1000 MHz memory :: 400 hz memory
3 Vertex Pipelines :: doesn't mention anything about them
easy to overclock :: pretty much maxed out.
so the open graphics card seem in the same league as an old $10 matrox
that has open source drivers. Not anything like my 6600le, or even my
onboard pci-e card, which has much higher specs than the opengraphics
one.
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 10:34 -0800, R Parker
wrote:
Lee,
You've offended me at least a once or twice... ;-)
That said you've helped me at least a million times more. I, for
one, am happoy that you're here.
- Mark The reason you piss people off is because every
helpful reply you make has a snide condescending
remark in it somewhere. Very seldomly do you reply
without registering your intolerance and your
superiority over whomever it is that you are
supposedly helping.
Why should anyone even bother posting on this mailing
list when they will be expecting you to insult them?
You are probably right. Really, I'm a nice guy, I guess my only excuse
is that I spend a lot of time on development mailing lists where this
type of behavior is tolerated at best and encouraged at worst.
Sorry if I offended anyone...
Lee From the faq " It will accelerate games to varying
degrees, but that
is not its primary purpose."
So yeah, it all depends on what you want, good, fast, cheap and open,
choose 2 ;-)
Anyway... back to me trying to learn guitar. guitar is REALLY fun ;-)
Trying to learn i'm on fire, bruce springsteen.
Loki
14 Dec
14 Dec
2:46 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Lee Revell wrote:
... It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as far as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my
time.
You're not wasting your time, Lee. I don't own a copy of MS Windows
(nor could I countenance a 'backup' from a friend). I run Linux, and
that's all.
cheers
Rob
3:08 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 18:54 +0000, Rob Fell wrote:
Lee Revell wrote:
Intel and VIA have 3D chipsets with open drivers. You're not going to
get insanely high frame rates but that's the price of freedom ;-)
There's also this project:
http://www.opengraphics.org
Lee
... It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
3:22 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Lee Revell wrote:
Intel and VIA have 3D chipsets with open drivers.
You're not going to
get insanely high frame rates but that's the price of freedom ;-)
Don't these chipsets use 'host' memory rather than dedicated video
memory? If so, I'm not sure I want all that bandwidth stolen from the
CPU :(
There's also this project:
http://www.opengraphics.org
I've read about this. Interesting idea, but I still have doubts that
it'll produce ASIC/cards that will be affordable - though I'd love to be
proved wrong.
cheers
Rob
5:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Don't these chipsets use 'host' memory
rather than dedicated video> memory? If so, I'm not sure I want all that bandwidth
stolen from the> CPU :(I think PCI Express has enough bandwidth.Though,
high-performance GPU with dedicated memory & open drivers is adream solution.
--Dmitry
5:47 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Wednesday, 14 December 2005 at 18:54, Rob Fell wrote:
Lee Revell wrote:
As far as I know the fastest 3D card with open drivers is the Radeon
8500/9100 (developed from specs ATI released at the time) - and I've
heard even those are noticeably faster with the closed source drivers.
--
If you want to get rich from writing, write the sort of thing that's
read by persons who move their lips when the're reading to themselves.
-- Don Marquis
... It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
9:23 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 22:47 +0100, Christian Ohm wrote:
On Wednesday, 14 December 2005 at 18:54, Rob Fell
wrote:
Actually AFAIK the Radeon 9250 is the latest that has 3d accel with open
source drivers.
-- Fernando
Lee Revell wrote:
As far as I know the fastest 3D card with open drivers is the Radeon
8500/9100 (developed from specs ATI released at the time) - and I've
heard even those are noticeably faster with the closed source drivers. ... It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code... 
15 Dec
15 Dec
2:52 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Wed, 2005-14-12 at 17:23 -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 22:47 +0100, Christian Ohm
wrote:
Not to mention that people still work on the Radeon driver, whereas the
Matrox stuff has been all but dead for years.
Also, Matrox's new (PCI-E) releases of the Millenium series has gone
proprietary as well. What a world...
-DR-
On Wednesday, 14 December 2005 at 18:54, Rob Fell
wrote:
Actually AFAIK the Radeon 9250 is the latest that has 3d accel with open
source drivers. Lee Revell wrote:
As far as I know the fastest 3D card with open drivers is the Radeon
8500/9100 (developed from specs ATI released at the time) - and I've
heard even those are noticeably faster with the closed source drivers. ... It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
3:12 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 13:51 -0500, Dave Robillard wrote:
On Wed, 2005-14-12 at 17:23 -0800, Fernando
Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
According to people on LKML apparently ATI is planning to clamp down on
the docs since getting the Xbox 360 contract. In the past they have
released docs on the 2D engine but kept the 3D engine driver closed.
The next generation of chips will not have a separate 2D engine at all
but implement 2D accel with the 3D engine which they allegedly plan to
keep completely closed.
Lee
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 22:47 +0100, Christian Ohm
wrote:
Not to mention that people still work on the Radeon driver, whereas the
Matrox stuff has been all but dead for years.
Also, Matrox's new (PCI-E) releases of the Millenium series has gone
proprietary as well. What a world... On Wednesday, 14 December 2005 at 18:54, Rob Fell
wrote:
Actually AFAIK the Radeon 9250 is the latest that has 3d accel with open
source drivers. Lee Revell wrote:
>... It would be understandable if
>there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
>case.
Given that I'm considering building a new machine, can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
As far as I know the fastest 3D card with open drivers is the Radeon
8500/9100 (developed from specs ATI released at the time) - and I've
heard even those are noticeably faster with the closed source drivers. 
14 Dec
14 Dec
9:20 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 06:54:49PM +0000, Rob Fell wrote:
Given that I'm considering building a new machine,
can you point to
references please? I wasn't aware any 3D GFX manufacturer had released
any significant specs/code...
Matrox G400 - the most well-supported, most stable X11 drivers that
are available.
Yea, it won't give you insane framerates with OpenGL. But if you are
looking for a 3D capable card, with awesome drivers, there is no
substitute.
--
Ross Vandegrift
ross(a)lug.udel.edu
"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37
15 Dec
15 Dec
12:30 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Yea, it won't give you insane framerates with
OpenGL. But if you are> looking for a 3D capable card, with awesome drivers, there is
no> substitute.
The really bad thing is, that no cards except for modern
NVIDIA's andATI's support GLSL and programmable shading in general. AFAIK,
ATIdrivers works much worse than NVIDIA ones. So if you want to processvideo/3d using
modern technologies you have no choice - NVIDIA only.
And yes, it has direct implications on media art. Take a look at newversion of Jitter
(Max/MSP addon) or Quartz Composer on MacOS X. Theyall use GPU to process video.
Moreover, I am very sceptical on possibility to create such a GPU in aopen source way.If
only nvidia/ati opened their driver sources...
--Dmitry
14 Dec
14 Dec
2:54 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed December 14 2005 13:01, Lee Revell wrote:
and all free software. It would be understandable if
there
was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not
the case. [...] They would rather have a 5% better
framerate in some game than support free software.
If 3D chipsets with proprietary drivers only gave the user 5%
better performance, that would mean 3D chipsets with free
software support are at about 95.2% of the proprietary chipsets'
performance. I would gladly buy a 3D card (or notebook with 3D
chipset) that has 95% of the speed of a current NVidia or ATI
card while having open drivers instead of proprietary. (As it
happens, I'm typing this on a notebook with an Intel chipset
whose drivers are free, but it's also maybe 10% as fast as a
"gaming video card." I am in the market for a new notebook and
would like to choose correctly.)
Could you provide some examples of 3D kit whose drivers aren't
proprietary but which benchmark at 95% or better of NVidia or
ATI? I'd even take one that only measures up to a $40 card and
costs $99, because I hate proprietary drivers too.
Unfortunately, as with 802.11g cards and softmodems, I've done
the research and have never come up with an acceptable solution.
I'm curious as to whether or not you have actually done your
homework on this issue. I hope you have, because I'd like to
have an answer when someone buys an nvidia card, has trouble
with the driver conflicting with something else, and then goes,
"Well, what else was I gonna buy?"
Someone recently posted to this very list asking for beta testers
of a music creation program that required a pretty decent 3D
card, so it isn't just gaming we're talking about here.
Is the
highest purpose of Linux really just to run proprietary games
and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my time.
I gotta tell you, I do most of my gaming on consoles like the
Gamecube and Nintendo DS, and music production and coding are
way more important to me than playing games. Nonetheless, I was
overjoyed when I fired up a recent release of Wine last week and
discovered it could finally run Hamsterball (on my lousy Intel
chipset laptop to boot.)
I think most people put gaming higher on their priority list than
I do, but you can't assume someone will switch to Linux if what
they do 10% of the time will still require them to boot into
Windows. I started out with Linux 11 years ago for ethical
reasons, but my enthusiasm is due to pragmatism, not religion.
It was only about 2002 before I started trying to move other
people to Linux en masse, not because Microsoft got more evil
but because Linux got to be capable enough for non-technical
users, and there are still hiccups today.
Gaming is by far the largest of these hiccups (AOL used to be,
but people are more willing to drop AOL nowadays since it's so
ridiculously priced.) In those cases, I make them buy a copy of
Windows and load it up with Openoffice, Firefox, Gaim, etc. and
hope by the time they're ready for an upgrade, Linux will be
ready for them.
There are enough Linux users now that I think most of them are
here for pragmatic reasons and not ethical ones anymore. Most
if not all people who believe in free software for its own sake
aren't using Windows anymore. Any strategy for encouraging
Linux adoption that requires users to either (1) care about
copyright ethics or (2) become more technical than they are is
doomed to failure.
Rob
3:20 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 13:50 -0500, Rob wrote:
I'm typing this on a notebook with an Intel
chipset
whose drivers are free, but it's also maybe 10% as fast as a
"gaming video card."
Ugh, maybe it's worse than I thought. All I know is Tuxracer is
playable on my Via Unichrome chipset which has an open source 3D
driver ;-)
If the situation is that bad then the Open Graphics project might be our
only hope. They claim they will be able to hit 90-95% of the
performance of Nvidia and ATI gaming cards.
Lee
5:52 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed December 14 2005 14:23, Lee Revell wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 13:50 -0500, Rob wrote:
Yeah, Tux Racer works great on my laptop too. That's because Tux
Racer was fairly simplistic as a 3D game when it was released
over 5 years ago. ;)
I'm glad to hear about the OpenGraphics project; that sounds like
exactly what I'm after. I hope they eventually are able to get
something going that can be mass produced in China or Taiwan and
sold for prices in the same ballpark as Nvidia cards are sold
today. In the meantime, I guess I'll have to make do with the
fairly lame Intel and Via chipsets.
Rob
I'm typing this on a notebook with an Intel
chipset
whose drivers are free, but it's also maybe 10% as fast as a
"gaming video card."
Ugh, maybe it's worse than I thought. All I
know is Tuxracer
is playable on my Via Unichrome chipset which has an open
source 3D driver ;-) 
15 Dec
15 Dec
7:42 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
Darn, it's late at night and I still haven't caught up on all of the discussion
about the nvidia(etc) drivers, but.
We only use linux on our machines and do play WoW with them because windows is such a pain
to keep around just to play an on line game. I don't like to dual boot a computer and
shut down a good linux session just because we like to play World of Warcraft. So we use
wine and the closed source nvidia drivers to get the opengl speed that we need to play the
game while listening to music(even a softsynth) with jack at low latencies*.
Recently we needed to install Fedora 4 on a athlon 64 dual core and now we're starting
to see the problems as the linux preemption clashes with the nvidia drivers. Not a pretty
sight.
We managed to get some stability with the 2.6.11 kernels but it all goes to hell with the
2.6.14. After a lot of reconfiguring, trying different kernels, and a lot of wasted time;
we found what will work at least.
We started to dig around for what others were doing with this situation and came accross
this site:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=14
where there seems to be a healthy amount of finger pointing from the linux side and the
nvidia side about things working or not.
It really looks like no one is right or wrong on this, and at least both sides are trying
to get things to work. I feel that just like the low latency audio issues where we needed
to be more vocal to get decent audio into the linux kernel; we prolly need to make more
noise to the kernel folks to be sure things are clean, and to the nvidia people that they
need to accept that it's a new world where preemption is the norm.
Tracey.
*We use our machines for high end audio and development first, but it's funny how a
well tuned linux box can outpreform a windows box in that game.
8:30 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
*We use our machines for high end audio and development
first, but
it's funny how a well tuned linux box can outpreform a windows box
in that game.
hey, i think the hottest use of linux for video gaming right now is
in devices like the gp2x .. you wanna see how well linux can do
gaming, just get one of these hot little boxes .. http://gbax.com/
i think the old argument 'you cant play games on linux' is well and
truly dead, and the argument 'you cant do audio/video on linux' is
also, extremely crufty. so for me the answer to the 'best distro for
linux to do _blah_' is, and always has been, the one you roll
yourself and share with your friends.
and to do that you need hardware. right now, machines like the gp2x,
cheap, battery powered and powerful, represent some pretty nice linux
hardware ..
and, get this, headsup you jackd types, usb-audio gadget drivers on
this box means you've suddenly got, for a hundred bucks, two 200mhz
processors you can apply to synthesis/audio/sound .. oh, and the
requisite streaming mass storage, and a bit of 'ram, of course .. ;)
for me, the desktop is dead. good riddance!
--
;
Jay Vaughan
16 Dec
16 Dec
2:03 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
Tracey Hytry <shakti(a)bayarea.net> writes:
we prolly need to make more noise to the kernel folks
to be sure
things are clean, and to the nvidia people that they need to accept
that it's a new world where preemption is the norm.
Consider that a lost battle. It's more a cry to all you folks who buy
hardware that requires proprietary software to stop doing it, but of
course, most don't see what's really happening. When you buy, you vote
and you're sending the wrong signal that this is accepted. We don't
want to keep people busy reverse engineering hardware.
The highest performance GPU available today with free software is
r280, as far as I know, but some success is close with the r300
project.
Tomorrows desktops are GPU accellerated and we definitely need a
solution. I know we will find a solution somehow, or I'll be running
the r280 until the end of time, even such a die hard free software
gamer that I am.
We need a free hardware revolution and I'm quite confident it will
happen, cause these current companies are so blind they don't even see
the demand.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
[sip|iax]: e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
14 Dec
14 Dec
6:16 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
My experience is at best anecdotal, but my VooDoo 3D
AGP card has been supported for a few years; too bad
they are out of business now. Tux Racer and Chromium
scream across my screen on just have a K7 500Mhz with
768 MB RAM.
I don't know if anybody remembers getting nvidia cards
to work under RedHat 7.1 or 7.2, but the instructions
included "patching" (more like creating a memory hole)
in the kernel for the card to work. Comparing old
apples to old apples, I prefer my VooDoo 3D.
Rather than going out to get the latest and greatest
hardware, I tend to look first at what is currently
supported under Linux. It may not be the newest, but
at least it will work, and usually work well. Code
maturity is important when considering hardware
drivers.
Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
project also says both cards are supported.
That's my $.02US anyway.
-=cybersean3000=-
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
6:33 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Sean Edwards wrote:
Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
project also says both cards are supported.
A layla3G may be a better choice. it's cheaper tha RME and better than
M-audio.
guitoo
15 Dec
15 Dec
1:08 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Thanks, I will look into that.
--- Guillaume Meurisse <g.meurisse(a)laposte.net> wrote:
Sean Edwards wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card.
Just
as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
project also says both cards are supported.
A layla3G may be a better choice. it's cheaper tha
RME and better than
M-audio.
guitoo
5:24 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Sean Edwards wrote:
My experience is at best anecdotal, but my VooDoo 3D
AGP card has been supported for a few years; too bad
they are out of business now. Tux Racer and Chromium
scream across my screen on just have a K7 500Mhz with
768 MB RAM.
I don't know if anybody remembers getting nvidia cards
to work under RedHat 7.1 or 7.2, but the instructions
included "patching" (more like creating a memory hole)
in the kernel for the card to work. Comparing old
apples to old apples, I prefer my VooDoo 3D.
Rather than going out to get the latest and greatest
hardware, I tend to look first at what is currently
supported under Linux. It may not be the newest, but
at least it will work, and usually work well. Code
maturity is important when considering hardware
drivers.
Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
project also says both cards are supported.
HI I would have to say the RME on this, its
supported on Linux (no control panel as such yet)
but jack shows all what you need.
As you say it just runs very well for Multitrack.
Cheers
Bob
That's my $.02US anyway.
-=cybersean3000=-
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
Bearmusic
hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
6:59 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
studio-64 <fsmith(a)walescomputers.co.uk>uk>:
HI I would have to say the RME on this, its
supported on Linux (no control panel as such yet)
What do you mean? There are "hdspmixer" and "hdspconf".
7:43 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Wolfgang Woehl wrote:
studio-64 <fsmith(a)walescomputers.co.uk>uk>:
Unfortunatly the hammerfall isin't found by these apps, no idea why, as
the reason I bought the RME was for Linux support.
Here is the putput of hdspconf:
********************
Looking for HDSP cards :
Card 0 : RME Digi9636 (Rev 1.5) at 0xfd000000, irq 169
Card 1 : EDIROL UM-1 at usb-0000:00:0f.0-1, full speed
Card 2 : MPU-401 UART at 0x330, irq 5
No Hammerfall DSP card found.
64studio:~#
*********************
card is there and is used by jack no problems (I dont think I can set
the sample rate through jack though)
Cheers
Bob
Bearmusic
hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
HI I would have to say the RME on this, its
supported on Linux (no control panel as such yet)
What do you mean? There are "hdspmixer" and "hdspconf".
8:39 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
********************
Looking for HDSP cards :
Card 0 : RME Digi9636 (Rev 1.5) at 0xfd000000, irq 169
Card 1 : EDIROL UM-1 at usb-0000:00:0f.0-1, full speed
Card 2 : MPU-401 UART at 0x330, irq 5
Your sound card is not a Hammerfall dsp card. Drivers for this card are
far behind those written for hdsp rme.
guitoo
10:24 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 13:39 +0100, Guillaume Meurisse wrote:
far behind is a bit of an mis-statement. the cards are older and haven't
changed much, and so the drivers are older and haven't changed much.
its unfortunate that thomas charbonnel's hsdpconf does not work for the
digiXXXX series, because everything (or almost everything) that they
control also exists on the digiXXXX series devices.
if somebody had the time, this would probably be rather easy to fix.
--p
********************
Looking for HDSP cards :
Card 0 : RME Digi9636 (Rev 1.5) at 0xfd000000, irq 169
Card 1 : EDIROL UM-1 at usb-0000:00:0f.0-1, full speed
Card 2 : MPU-401 UART at 0x330, irq 5
Your sound card is not a Hammerfall dsp card. Drivers for this card are
far behind those written for hdsp rme. 
18 Jan
18 Jan
9:59 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
hi
When starting rosegarden (cvs), I get the message "System timer
resolution to low".
However, AFAICT the high resolution timer is enabled (?)
How would I test it manually?
What to do?
kernel-config:
CONFIG_HPET_TIMER=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_RESOLUTION=1000
Muse output:
cannot set ticks 1024 on /dev/rtc: No right
precise timer not available
set timer ticks failed
$ cat /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
1024
$ ls -lh /dev/rtc
crw-rw---- 1 root audio 10, 135 2005-12-15 12:27 /dev/rtc
$ cat /proc/asound/seq/timer
Timer for queue 0 : system timer
Period time : 0.004000000
Skew : 65536 / 65536
$ cat /proc/asound/timers
G0: system timer : 4000.000us (10000000 ticks)
Client sequencer queue 0 : running : lost interrupts 0
P0-0-0: PCM playback 0-0-0 : SLAVE
P0-0-1: PCM capture 0-0-1 : SLAVE
P1-0-0: PCM playback 1-0-0 : SLAVE
P1-0-1: PCM capture 1-0-1 : SLAVE
$ cat /proc/driver/rtc
rtc_time : 13:58:36
rtc_date : 2005-12-15
rtc_epoch : 1900
alarm : 17:50:32
DST_enable : no
BCD : yes
24hr : yes
square_wave : no
alarm_IRQ : no
update_IRQ : no
periodic_IRQ : no
periodic_freq : 1024
batt_status : okay
11:48 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
On Wednesday 18 January 2006 14:51, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
hi
When starting rosegarden (cvs), I get the message "System timer
resolution to low".
However, AFAICT the high resolution timer is enabled (?)
How would I test it manually?
What to do?
kernel-config:
CONFIG_HPET_TIMER=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_TIMERS=y
CONFIG_HIGH_RES_RESOLUTION=1000
Muse output:
cannot set ticks 1024 on /dev/rtc: No right
precise timer not available
set timer ticks failed
$ cat /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
1024
$ ls -lh /dev/rtc
crw-rw---- 1 root audio 10, 135 2005-12-15 12:27 /dev/rtc
----------^^
if you are not in group audio, you dont have any permissions for /dev/rtc.
Please check with "id" command.
/Werner
12:49 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
Werner Schweer wrote:
I'm in the audio-group (debian system, 2.6.13)
$ id
Groups=......25(floppy),29(audio),40(src),......
$ ls -lh
/dev/rtc
crw-rw---- 1 root audio 10, 135 2005-12-15 12:27 /dev/rtc
----------^^
if you are not in group audio, you dont have any permissions for /dev/rtc.
Please check with "id" command.
1:31 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
On Wednesday 18 January 2006 17:41, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
Werner Schweer wrote:
I'm in the audio-group (debian system, 2.6.13)
$ id
Groups=......25(floppy),29(audio),40(src),......
ok, another thing i noticed:
your "cat /proc/driver/rtc" gives
...
update_IRQ : no
periodic_IRQ : no
my configuration says:
periodic_IRQ : yes
Maybe you should disable HPET in your kernel. As far as i know nobody
is using it. Especially the kernel option "HPET Control RTC IRQ"
may disable your /dev/rtc.
/Werner
$ ls -lh
/dev/rtc
crw-rw---- 1 root audio 10, 135 2005-12-15 12:27 /dev/rtc
----------^^
if you are not in group audio, you dont have any permissions for /dev/rtc.
Please check with "id" command. 
19 Jan
19 Jan
8:03 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 06:32:47PM +0100, Werner Schweer wrote:
your "cat /proc/driver/rtc" gives
...
update_IRQ : no
periodic_IRQ : no
my configuration says:
periodic_IRQ : yes
Only the real RTC driver supports this, the generic RTC driver does
not. Check in you kernel config that CONFIG_RTC is set and CONFIG_GEN_RTC
is not.
I have an old patch somewhere that adds these features to the generic rtc
driver. Let me know if you need that.
--
Martin
5:02 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
Werner Schweer wrote:
ok, another thing i noticed:
your "cat /proc/driver/rtc" gives
...
update_IRQ : no
periodic_IRQ : no
my configuration says:
periodic_IRQ : yes
Maybe you should disable HPET in your kernel. As far as i know nobody
is using it. Especially the kernel option "HPET Control RTC IRQ"
may disable your /dev/rtc.
/Werner
Now I disabled all options I found that contained the word HPET:
CONFIG_HPET_TIMER=n
CONFIG_HPET=n
CONFIG_HPET_MMAP=n
I also followed Martin Habets suggestion and set
CONFIG_RTC=y
CONFIG_GEN_RTC=n
and also
CONFIG_SND_RTCTIMER=m
to
CONFIG_SND_RTCTIMER=y
Without success.
-----------------------------------
Then I built a new kernel (2.6.15.1) (previos was 2.6.13)
Now the timer is working, but my usb card isn't anymore, while the pci
card is working.
jackd started with PCI-card (hw:0): (OK)
$ jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p512
jackd 0.100.0
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
loading driver ..
creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|512|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
control device hw:0
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 512 frames, buffer = 2 periods
nperiods = 2 for capture
nperiods = 2 for playback
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jackd started with USB-card (hw:1): (FAILES)
$ jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:1 -p512
jackd 0.100.0
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.
jackd comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details
JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
loading driver ..
creating alsa driver ... hw:1|hw:1|512|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit
control device hw:1
configuring for 48000Hz, period = 512 frames, buffer = 2 periods
Note: audio device hw:1 doesn't support a 32bit sample format so JACK
will try a 24bit format instead
nperiods = 2 for capture
Note: audio device hw:1 doesn't support a 32bit sample format so JACK
will try a 24bit format instead
nperiods = 2 for playback
ALSA: could not start playback (Broken pipe)
DRIVER NT: could not start driver
cannot start driver
jackd watchdog: timeout - killing jackd
Aborted
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the snd-usb-audio module loaded successfully.
but jackd sais: cannot start driver.
any suggestions ?
Thanks for your help and inputs,
Emanuel
On Wednesday 18
January 2006 17:41, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
>Werner
Schweer wrote:
>
>
>>>>$ ls -lh /dev/rtc
>>>>crw-rw---- 1 root audio 10, 135 2005-12-15 12:27 /dev/rtc
>>>>
>>>>
>>----------^^
>>if you are not in group audio, you dont have any permissions for /dev/rtc.
>>Please check with "id" command.
>>
>>
>I'm in the audio-group (debian system, 2.6.13)
>
>$ id
>Groups=......25(floppy),29(audio),40(src),......
>
> 
20 Jan
20 Jan
4:37 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
[...]
Then I built a new kernel (2.6.15.1) (previos was 2.6.13)
2.6.15 has a bug in the USB driver (should be fixed in 2.6.15.2), but it
seems your device isn't affected.
Now the timer is working, but my usb card isn't
anymore, while the pci
card is working.
ALSA: could not start playback (Broken pipe)
What is the error message in the system log?
If the error code is "-28", disable USB bandwidth checking in the kernel
configuration.
HTH
Clemens
4:51 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] timer resolution
Clemens Ladisch wrote:
Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
Thanks, Clemens, that helped.
CONFIG_USB_BANDWIDTH=n
emanuel
[...]
Then I built a new kernel (2.6.15.1) (previos was 2.6.13)
2.6.15 has a bug in the USB driver (should be fixed in 2.6.15.2), but it
seems your device isn't affected.
Now the timer is working, but my usb card
isn't anymore, while the pci
card is working.
ALSA: could not start playback (Broken pipe)
What is the error message in the system log?
If the error code is "-28", disable USB bandwidth checking in the kernel
configuration.
12:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] rosegarden dssi problem
If I load/open a rosegarden project with dssi plugins applied, there is
no sound output.
The sound comes back, when I deselect each of the plugins and then
reselect it.
Obviously the dssi-plugin outputs are not auto-connected with the
master-output on project-loading(?)
Looks like a bug to me.
Note: With the default-studio this does not happen, I can here the
plugins there after rosegarden started.
I'm using rosegarden 1.2_cvs, but had this error with previous versions too.
dssi version = 0.9.1 (i think - how to know it?)
I know, it's cvs, sid, but wanted to let you know...
... since it prevents dssi from beeing actually usable...
Emanuel
3:13 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] rosegarden dssi problem
On Friday 20 Jan 2006 16:02, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
If I load/open a rosegarden project with dssi plugins
applied, there
is no sound output.
The sound comes back, when I deselect each of the plugins and then
reselect it.
[...]
I'm using rosegarden 1.2_cvs
Last updated when? There have been some recent changes to the plugin
state save/restore logic.
Does this affect all DSSI plugins, or only certain ones?
There have been problems in the past with state being incompletely
restored for some particular plugins -- Xsynth was the most obvious
example -- so that they when reloaded would either play silently or
with some barely-audible clicks or other pathological configuration.
This should be fixed in current CVS, as of about a week ago.
I know, it's cvs, sid, but wanted to let you
know...
We're just building up to another release, so reports on problems in CVS
are welcome just now.
Note: With the default-studio this does not happen, I
can here the
plugins there after rosegarden started.
The default studio doesn't have any synth plugins in it... I'm puzzled
as to what you mean there.
Chris
21 Jan
21 Jan
6 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] rosegarden dssi problem
This mail accidently went as personal mail, so here it is again sent to the list.
Chris Cannam wrote:
The version I'm talking about is 1.2_cvs 3.4.3
The binary date:
2006-01-15 22:52 /usr/bin/rosegarden
All plugins are affected.
Right it doesn't have any synth plugins by default, but I saved another
project with dssi-synth-plugins as
default-studio. (Menu: Composition/Studio/Save current project as default)
If rosegarden is started, there's the default-studio loaded first. This
plays the plugins.
But if I open other projects with synth-plugins, they are all quit then.
Also there was a situation, when the select dialog-window for the
synth-plugin got confused:
There was a synth-plugin selected, but the synth-instrument-list showed
the patches for the previously selected fluid-dssi.
Other errors I get, if I try to save synth-instruments (patches):
"
WhySynth: load error: no patches recognized in patch file
'/home/admin/.whysynth/WhySynth_patches-_plugin_dssi_10007_synth_WhySynth'
"
"
Xsynth: patch configuration failed: corrupt data
"
I will try a more recent cvs-snapshot soon.
Some other things I would enjoy to see:
(just my thoughts and suggestion)
- In the track-editor it is possible to duplicate segments by holding
<strg>+drag. This should be possible in the matrix editor as well for
note-events (for consequency), but doesn't.
- The matrix editor is nice for note input and editing, but I sometimes
accidently put notes. This requires me to select the eraser-tool and
back to the draw-tool. What about introducing some trick?:
Double-clicking the note on the (very) left side, to erase it. This
behaviour would also be very usefull in the drum-editor.
At the moment the event-property-dialog appears on double-click: move it
to the right-mbutton-menu instead. Reason: It will be much less used,
than the eraser tool (I assume).
- matrix-editor: The draw and resize-tools should allow events to be
resized by click-dragging them on the right side because moving and
resizing is often done mutual.
- I've seen a "brush" tool in some sequencers, allowing many notes to be
drawn by clicking and draging, with the note-position specified by the
grid and note-lenght by quantisation. This is also usfull for drum
(hihat) editing.
- taste but: The mouse jumps to the note-event-start on mouse-click with
move/select-tool. I would prefere it to keep the position relative to
the event.
- in the german version, "velocity" is bad translated. In this case
velocity is not "Geschwindigkeit".
"velocity" is "Anschlagstärke" here and
"adjust (event-)velocities" is "Anschlagstärke (der Töne) setzen"
- The accordname-ruler in the matrix editor doesn't view anyting.
- symbols for the main-toolbar for metronome on/off , solo on/off
- make the transport (re-)disappear by repressing the T-key.
- there's already the nice command 'Join overlapping notes with equal
pitches'. This could be extended by the command: 'Shorten preceeding
overlapping note, so that it ends 1/64 before the following (equal
pitched) note.' (legato)
- Velocity Property Ruler: allow 'free-draw properties' . Bring
velocities of selected notes to front.
'Draw property line' now affects all events. Maybe affecting selected
events only would be more powerfull.
- The project (and propably tracks) could have a small notepad for
notices. (I would use it for some
hints, how to continue editing, reminding me to make coffee etc.)
Thanks for all efforts and this versatile program
Emanuel
On Friday 20
Jan 2006 16:02, Emanuel Rumpf wrote:
>If I
load/open a rosegarden project with dssi plugins applied, there
>is no sound output.
>The sound comes back, when I deselect each of the plugins and then
>reselect it.
>[...]
>I'm using rosegarden 1.2_cvs
>
>
Last updated when?
Does this
affect all DSSI plugins, or only certain ones?
There have been
problems in the past with state being incompletely
restored for some particular plugins -- Xsynth was the most obvious
example -- so that they when reloaded would either play silently or
with some barely-audible clicks or other pathological configuration.
This should be fixed in current CVS, as of about a week ago.
>I
know, it's cvs, sid, but wanted to let you know...
>
>
We're just building up to another release, so reports on problems in CVS
are welcome just now.
>Note:
With the default-studio this does not happen, I can here the
>plugins there after rosegarden started.
>
>
The default studio doesn't have any synth plugins in it... I'm puzzled
as to what you mean there.
15 Dec
15 Dec
10:15 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
> Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
> Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
> as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
> Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
> audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
> project also says both cards are supported.
this is an unfortunate reading of BS marketing text.
the hammerfall series (digiXXXX and HDSP) do nothing of the sort, they
never did, they don't on any other OS, etc etc etc.
all that RME is referring to here are 2 things:
a) direct monitoring without CPU involvement
- well yeah, except that even consumer analog
cards do that
b) the card is a DMA busmaster, and so the CPU doesn't
need to be involved in transferring data to the
card, it just stuffs it into host-side RAM
- well yeah, except that almost every other
PCI card on the planet *except* RME's
earlier designs do this too. this is
really just an apology for the incredibly
stupid design of the digi96 series, which
require active participation by the host
CPU to move data to the card.
--p
11:49 a.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
Paul Davis wrote:
That explains why this was cheaper at the time (over a year ago)
I thought I would get this as:
1 It was supported
2 I could add more cards as the system grew
3 The website seemed to infer Linux Support
I didnt really worry about monitoring and latency as I was using the DDX
and this controlled the monitors as in most analogue studios.
Apart from Word clock the HDSP card didnt seem that diffrerent.
It's a shame RME have allowed the marketing depatment to run the company!
Cheers
Bob
Bearmusic
hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
>Currently,
I am trying to decide between an RME
>Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
>as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
>Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
>audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
>project also says both cards are supported.
this is an unfortunate reading of BS marketing text.
the hammerfall series (digiXXXX and HDSP) do nothing of the sort, they
never did, they don't on any other OS, etc etc etc.
all that RME is referring to here are 2 things:
a) direct monitoring without CPU involvement
- well yeah, except that even consumer analog
cards do that
b) the card is a DMA busmaster, and so the CPU doesn't
need to be involved in transferring data to the
card, it just stuffs it into host-side RAM
- well yeah, except that almost every other
PCI card on the planet *except* RME's
earlier designs do this too. this is
really just an apology for the incredibly
stupid design of the digi96 series, which
require active participation by the host
CPU to move data to the card.
--p
12:59 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
all that RME
is referring to here are 2 things:
a) direct monitoring without CPU involvement
- well yeah, except that even consumer analog
cards do that
b) the card is a DMA busmaster, and so the CPU doesn't
need to be involved in transferring data to the
card, it just stuffs it into host-side RAM
- well yeah, except that almost every other
PCI card on the planet *except* RME's
earlier designs do this too. this is
really just an apology for the incredibly
stupid design of the digi96 series, which
require active participation by the host
CPU to move data to the card.
--p
That explains why this was cheaper at the time (over a year ago)
I thought I would get this as: 1 It was supported
2 I could add more cards as the system grew
3 The website seemed to infer Linux Support
all 3 are true for the digi96 series, the digi96XX series and the HDSP
series. the digi96 is not recommended, however.
--p
2:26 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 15:48 +0000, studio-64 wrote:
It's a shame RME have allowed the marketing
depatment to run the
company!
Welcome to capitalism in the 21st century. Products inexorably get
worse due to investor demand for ever-increasing profit margins and the
consumer is left holding the bag.
Lee
3:05 p.m.
New subject: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
On 12/15/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2005-12-15 at 15:48 +0000, studio-64 wrote:
Is RME publicly traded? I thought not. This may be a case where they
just let the marketing guys run amuck...
- Mark
It's a shame RME have allowed the marketing
depatment to run the
company!
Welcome to capitalism in the 21st century. Products inexorably get
worse due to investor demand for ever-increasing profit margins and the
consumer is left holding the bag.
Lee 
6:53 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Re: OT: Accelerated 3D GFX cards with Free drivers (was Re: [linux-audi= o-user] Re: The best distro for music creation)
get M-Audio 1010LT ;)
it works, works, works :)
I do NOT see any CPU usage with the PCI :):):)
Użytkownik studio-64 <fsmith(a)walescomputers.co.uk> napisał:
Paul Davis wrote:
That explains why this was cheaper at the time (over a year ago)
I thought I would get this as:
1 It was supported
2 I could add more cards as the system grew
3 The website seemed to infer Linux Support
I didnt really worry about monitoring and latency as I was using the DDX
and this controlled the monitors as in most analogue studios.
Apart from Word clock the HDSP card didnt seem that diffrerent.
It\'s a shame RME have allowed the marketing depatment to run the company!
Cheers
Bob
Bearmusic
hearmymusic.co.uk <http:www.hearmymusic.co.uk>
>Currently, I am trying to decide between an RME
>Hammerfall and an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio card. Just
>as the 3D provides video performance, the RME
>Hammerfall does the same for audio, off loading the
>audio processing away from the main cpu. The alsa
>project also says both cards are supported.
this is an unfortunate reading of BS marketing text.
the hammerfall series (digiXXXX and HDSP) do nothing of the sort, they
never did, they don\'t on any other OS, etc etc etc.
all that RME is referring to here are 2 things:
a) direct monitoring without CPU involvement
- well yeah, except that even consumer analog
cards do that
b) the card is a DMA busmaster, and so the CPU doesn\'t
need to be involved in transferring data to the
card, it just stuffs it into host-side RAM
- well yeah, except that almost every other
PCI card on the planet *except* RME\'s
earlier designs do this too. this is
really just an apology for the incredibly
stupid design of the digi96 series, which
require active participation by the host
CPU to move data to the card.
--p
14 Dec
14 Dec
3:30 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 13:01 -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 09:01 -0600, Josh Lawrence
wrote:
Sorry for the OT rant, this is not the right list for it. A more
positive way to state it would be, "Please support the Open Graphics
project, www.opengraphics.org"quot;.
Lee
This discussion is very helpful to me, I was
unaware that proprietary
drivers such as ATI's would cause such problems with a RT kernel. It
was a video card that I had leftover from my Windows days, and since I
don't have any $ to buy a new one, I'll just have to keep it for
awhile.
Well my point was that proprietary drivers are wrong, period
15 Dec
15 Dec
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: The best distro for music creation
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 13:01 -0500, Lee Revell wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 09:01 -0600, Josh Lawrence
wrote:
Lee, if you'll tell me what video card has an open, accelerated 3D
driver that will handle 3D fly-throughs and editing of sonar and lidar
data surfaces containing billions of points (that's billion with a b)
I'll gladly get my office to switch. Until then it doesn't really
matter to me whether it's ethical or not because I have a job to do.
Look on the bright side though, I at least have most of my office using
Linux for processing our data ;-) If it were just a personal issue I
might use something with an open driver but so far I haven't seen one
that's really capable of competing with the NVIDIA driver.
This discussion is very helpful to me, I was
unaware that proprietary
drivers such as ATI's would cause such problems with a RT kernel. It
was a video card that I had leftover from my Windows days, and since I
don't have any $ to buy a new one, I'll just have to keep it for
awhile.
Well my point was that proprietary drivers are wrong, period, from both
a technical and ethical standpoint - it was not specific to the RT
kernel. It's not about whether they are buggy or not. When Linux users
buy hardware that requires propriertary drivers you are impeding the
progress of Linux and all free software. It would be understandable if
there was no 3D hardware available with open drivers but that's not the
case.
Really this is all a depressing reminder that as far
as Linux has come
over the years people are STILL buying hardware to run Windows on it.
They would rather have a 5% better framerate in some game than support
free software. Is the highest purpose of Linux really just to run
proprietary games and VST plugins using Wine? If so then I'm wasting my
time.
You're definitely not wasting your time! I appreciate your input on
most issues that show up on these lists. I will skip quite a few posts
if the subject doesn't interest me but I usually read yours (and a
number of others) 'cause you usually have the straight poop ;-)
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and
this we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
16 Dec
16 Dec
1:36 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Behringer BCA2000
Has anybody got Behringers BCA2000 working with
linux/alsa?
http://www.behringer.com/BCA2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
-=cybersean3000=-
__________________________________________________
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6:40 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer BCA2000
On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 11:12 +0100, jazzride wrote:
Clemens Ladisch a écrit :
The Behringer webpage says that it has "Generic USB MIDI support with
Windows XP® and MAC OS X®", which I assume means class compliant USB
MIDI. In that case it should work fine with the snd-usb-audio module (or
at least partially, since the webpage also mentions "Additional drivers
and editor/librarian software available for free download on our
website"). I hope it works, I've been thinking of getting that or the
BCR2000 when I have some money to spare.
--
Lars Luthman
PGP key: http://www.d.kth.se/~d00-llu/pgp_key.php
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
Sean Edwards wrote:
ok
what about BCF 2000 ? Has anybody got Behringers BCA2000 working with
linux/alsa?
No. It uses an unknown proprietary protocol. 
6:53 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer BCA2000
On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 11:42 +0100, Lars Luthman wrote:
On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 11:12 +0100, jazzride wrote:
> Clemens Ladisch a écrit :
> >Sean Edwards wrote:
> >>Has anybody got Behringers BCA2000 working with
> >>linux/alsa?
> >
> >No. It uses an unknown proprietary protocol.
>
> ok
> what about BCF 2000 ?
I just bought one. It works really well. It's kinda spooky to see the
sliders moving by themselves.
There's a bug in the 2.6.11 kernel that causes a USB keyboard to stop
responding if the BCF changes its USB address, but that's been fixed in
2.6.14.
The Behringer webpage says that it has "Generic
USB MIDI support with
Windows XP® and MAC OS X®", which I assume means class compliant USB
MIDI. In that case it should work fine with the snd-usb-audio module (or
at least partially, since the webpage also mentions "Additional drivers
and editor/librarian software available for free download on our
website"). I hope it works, I've been thinking of getting that or the
BCR2000 when I have some money to spare.
From what I've read, the BCR works pretty much the
same as the BCF.
bye
John
7:24 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer BCA2000
jazzride schrieb:
Clemens Ladisch a écrit :
I don´t know about the BCF 2000, but I have a BCR 2000, and it works
fine under Linux. The librarian/editor from Behringer´s website for both
the BCR and the BCF is written in Java and works at least for the BCR,
so i assume it will work for the BCF as well. There´s one drawback,
though: Behringer will not release any programming information, not even
about the sysex format, for these devices. Reverse engineering is
required and seems possible.
regards
--
Klaus Kosten
Sean Edwards wrote:
ok
what about BCF 2000 ?
regards
Has anybody got Behringers BCA2000 working with
linux/alsa?
No. It uses an unknown proprietary protocol.
Regards,
Clemens
7:46 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer BCA2000
jazzride <jazzride(a)laposte.net> writes:
what about BCF 2000 ?
This is a MIDI controller and it works great; I got one. The motorized
faders also works great.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
[sip|iax]: e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
7:54 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer BCA2000
On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:12:43 +0100
jazzride <jazzride(a)laposte.net> wrote:
Clemens Ladisch a écrit :
The BCF2000 works great with Ardour. See http://ardour.org/manual/using_a_bcf2000
for info on setting it up with Jack and Ardour.
--
======================================================================
Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com
Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa
Sean Edwards wrote:
ok
what about BCF 2000 ? Has anybody got Behringers BCA2000 working with
linux/alsa?
No. It uses an unknown proprietary protocol.
Regards,
Clemens
14 Dec
14 Dec
4:22 p.m.
Lee Revell wrote:
On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 10:08 -0600, Josh Lawrence
wrote:
If by "got my Radeon 9200 working" you mean "you got the proprietary ATI
driver to work" then nope, this will never "work" with the RT kernel.
If you're willing to drop your insistence on using prioprietary drivers
and/or buying hardware that requires them, then you're in good shape!
hmmm... are there really any options if you want openGL to work?
Don't both (new) ati and nvidia cards need proprietary drivers for 3D?
Do the
DeMuDi multimedia kernels not work with Ubuntu then?
--
I haven't tried, but I can tell you that I just *finally* got my
Radeon 9200 working with a standard Ubuntu kernel, so it is unlikely
that I'm going to mess with that anytime soon. I think the best
option for me is to start bugging the Ubuntu developers to start
making "official" RT kernels available. That's one of the many reasons why proprietary
drivers are evil and
rude, they tie you to a limited number of kernel version and thus
prevent any progress from happening.
yes and video cards seem to be pretty much the only common category
of hw that needs proprietary drivers (afaik most of the other commonly
used categories of hw have at least some products with open source drivers)
considering that often the info is not even available it's not even
the case when somebody could just go and write driver, it's basically
not possible. Ati drivers seem to be stuck (3D for cards from last few
years), not sure what nvidia status is but last time I chcecked it was
pretty much the same.
erik
22 Dec
22 Dec
9:29 p.m.
Off-topic, and a response to an old post, I know:
Josh Lawrence wrote:
Yes, that is certainly a consideration. You can
install fluxbox and
openbox, but I can attest that if you install flux, you will be left
to build all of your menus by yourself. As much as I enjoy tinkering
around with my computer, building the perfect menu is something I
would rather leave to someone else :)
This is actually a general problem with Ubuntu - in that most KDE apps
don't show in the GNOME menu & vice versa, which is a pain & unfortunate
that a user-centric Linux distro doesn't provide these. GNOME 2.12
apparently finally provides a menu editor, which I haven't been bothered
to find... Running flux... yay...
Oh; I broke my old FC2 boxlet @ home installing PlanetCCRMA (and to
think I deleted a whole load of porn to get it on there :p)... I'm
unfortunate enough to still be running FC2 @Home, cz I'm lazy to find
somewhere to back everything up to, re-install (will get there
eventually)...
Admittedly I didn't read the PlanetCCRMA instructions, manually
installed a bunch of RPMs, ok... Sound in Rosegarden still didn't work
(tried fiddling sequencer timer thingy) & my system became unstable,
would lock up frequently... Downgraded to the PlanetCCRMA kernel closest
to the one I was running, still no luck... Eventually reverted to my old
kernel, disabled rt_irq, and the system is stable now, but... my
consoles lock up periodically (gnome-terminal/konsole/actual system
console when not running X), which is very bizarre... Yay, pain ....
--
Andrew Lewis
11:03 p.m.
On 12/22/05, Andrew Lewis <alewis(a)systemsfusion.com> wrote:
This is actually a general problem with Ubuntu - in
that most KDE apps
don't show in the GNOME menu & vice versa, which is a pain & unfortunate
that a user-centric Linux distro doesn't provide these. GNOME 2.12
apparently finally provides a menu editor, which I haven't been bothered
to find... Running flux... yay...
I'm referencing a couple of threads here, specifically the discussion
about -rt kernels I had recently, but FYI - I emailed one of the big
guys (have no idea who he is) with the Ubuntu project and told him
that they REALLY need an official kernel for realtime work. This,
along with the other problems with fluxbox menus and such, keeps
Ubuntu from being *the* thing for audio work.
Oh; I broke my old FC2 boxlet @ home installing PlanetCCRMA (and to
think I deleted a whole load of porn to get it on there :p)... I'm
unfortunate enough to still be running FC2 @Home, cz I'm lazy to find
somewhere to back everything up to, re-install (will get there
eventually)...
This is the funniest thing I've read in while...don't know why, but it
struck me as really funny. I, of course, have never had this happen
to me :)
--
Josh Lawrence
http://www.hardbop200.com
29 Dec
29 Dec
11:09 a.m.
Andrew Lewis wrote:
Eventually reverted to my old
kernel, disabled rt_irq, and the system is stable now, but... my
consoles lock up periodically (gnome-terminal/konsole/actual system
console when not running X), which is very bizarre... Yay, pain ....
To be fair: this was in fact a problem I started having with OpenVPN
round about this time, which I now seem to have gotten around by
lowering my MTU. I was working such ridiculous hours in the weeks
leading up to this that I really didn't (and still don't) know my ass my
from my elbow, so to speak. I remember suspecting the VPN being a
problem but then my IQ dropped again and I simply had no idea anymore.
I may give PlanetCCRMA another go or just hop straight over to Gentoo.
Hello linux-audio-users!
--
Andrew Lewis
5 Dec
5 Dec
1:57 p.m.
Can you elaborate on what makes it hard? Is it just
that the kernel
is not optimised for this sort of stuff or are there other things
that make ubuntu not suitable for linux audio?
no, I haven't tried it for myself.
But what I've heard on another mailin list, you should at least build a
new kernel.
Best regards
ce
12 Dec
12 Dec
4:47 p.m.
On Sunday 04 December 2005 01:28, Mark Knecht was like:
1) If I want *exactly* what Fernando provides on the
Planet site, no
more and no less, then PlanetCCRMA is the best I know of. It's well
supported in the audio area by a great guy. It has a good mailing list
with helpful people. (Of which I hope I'm one once in awhile anyway.)
Overall very positive, but it has two downsides:
a) If you need ANYTHING that's not part of the Planet apt system then
be prepared for RPM hell. At least that's my experience. Email, DVD
stuff, etc.
b) Pick your Fedora version and be prepared to upgrade, upgrade,
upgrade. Every release of FC# is an opportunity to rebuild your system
from scratch. I know some folks report that they just do an upgrade
and it works for them but I'm sure that not a single one ever worked
for me.
That's an interesting appraisal. Rather than wave my DebPomPoms, I'd like to
offer this by way of comparison:
1) If your hardware is useable with the drivers available under Debian's
strict definition of 'free' then AGNULA/DeMuDi is a good all round solution.
If you're happy to use the softwares and versions that Free selects to be
included in the distro, which gives you a fairly wide choice of useful
applications, then you'll enjoy not having to worry about fiddling around in
order to make things work. Other positives similar to CCRMA.
a) If you need anything that's not included in DeMuDi itself, you can get it
straight from the Debian repositories.
b) It usually upgrades reasonably smoothly.
The catch? Well, I've been using it 3 years and never looked back. If I had
time, I'd build a Gentoo system, based largely on reports from this list. I
run on recycled tower systems, so I can afford to be a bit gung-ho about it.
c) Some hardware either isn't supported or can be a complete PITA to get
working. If you fall into that category, you may suffer as much pain and
hardship as someone using any other system. Fortunately it shouldn't take
weeks to figure out whether it's likely to work or not.
d) Debian is notorious for always being slightly out of date, this has
improved a bit since the release of 'sarge'. However, if you want to run the
latest or CVS versions of, for example, Ardour, Rosegarden or some of the
wonderful new applications discussed on this list you're going to have to get
your hands dirty doing some real compiling. It's at this point you have to
decide whether you actively like the way Debian does things (very
command-line oriented, GUIs are often optional extras and are expected to
behave themselves, for example). I can imagine there is a point where you
might as well be running Gentoo. I just haven't reached that yet. ;)
--
cheers,
tim hall
http://glastonburymusic.org.uk/tim
4 Dec
4 Dec
8:15 a.m.
On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 12:02:18PM -0800, Brian Dunn wrote:
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
My only advice, if you intend to make music *seriously* with Linux : take one or two month
to choose your system and compare with those two criterias.
- The first criteria imho is the compatibility between your hardware and your operating
system. All of the prebuilt kernel of all the distros where not enough tuned for my USB
soundcard (unstability, xruns...etc). So I was obliged to compil my own kernel. From this
point of view, choose the distro that provides the easiest way to manage the kernel
building. For me the N°1 is of course Gentoo.
- Matters of availability, in the package repository of the distro, latest versions or
whatever concerning an audio software package will become very useless when, one day or
another, you will have to compil the main softwares set of your audio system. From this
point of view, choose the distro that provides the most reliable compilation environment.
For me the N°1 is of course Gentoo.
This was the result of an heavy testing of DeMuDI, AudioSlack, PlanetCCRMA. To attest my
objectivity, My operating system of choice, at my work, is Debian for other reasons than
audio consideration... :)
Best regards
Philippe
9:19 a.m.
Brian Dunn wrote:
The possibility of using and contributing to studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool.
Since then i've had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. ( ....snip)
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
Hi
I think the choice boils down to two things. You
either need to have a distro where all the music software you want is packaged for you
(like demudi or PCLinuxOS, or a distro where source packages compile well from source. I
choose Slackware because of the latter: because of its 'vanilla' approach most
things compile well from source, which for a non-programmer like me who cannot
'fix' things is essential, including re-compiling the kernel. I am very happy with
the result.
Regards
Guy
--
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___________________________________________________________
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9:57 a.m.
Brian Dunn wrote:
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
Hi Brian:
I have two machines I use for music (and everything else too). My
laptop is a PII 366 HP Omnibook 4150, not a very powerful machine at
all. It isn't suitable for serious audio work, so I mainly use it for
writing and for some MIDI work. That machine is running Planet CCRMA Red
Hat 9. Yes, it's an old system, but it performs flawlessly with apps
such as seq24, QSynth, and Sequencer Plus (under DOSemu).
My desktop box has two systems on its drives. Again, Planet CCRMA's
RH9 runs on one, AGNULA/Demudi runs on the other. The RH9 systems use a
2.4 kernel and are tuned according to Fernando's excellent instructions.
However, I don't use many of the Planet C packages, I prefer to build
the apps locally. And here's where the major problem with the system
kicks in: If I want to build a newer package like, for example, Om, the
default system components won't do the job. Alas, upgrading the major
components like GTK, gtkmm, the KDE libs and the associated Qt build,
all this turns rapidly into a nightmare. Thus, while Planet C's RH9 can
claim excellent performance it's just not very easy to update to
accommodate the newer stuff. On my laptop that's not much of an issue,
but it's a problem for the desktop machine if I want to test and report
on the newer apps.
Performance on the laptop under Planet C's FC3 was not so good, and
I've been reluctant to try again with a more recent version of FC.
My AGNULA/Demudi system is based around a 2.6 kernel. It also works
quite nicely, and it has the advantage of being more up-to-date in its
components. However, even that system is not as current as I'd like, and
I still run into problems compiling programs that need the absolute
latest versions of their dependencies.
I'm fairly experienced with Linux, and I often consider building a
system "from scratch", i.e., start with a distro that offers the very
latest GTK2, Qt4, most recent KDE and GNOME libs, and so forth, then
start building the apps I want to run. I used Slackware when I first
started with Linux, maybe I'll return to it someday.
Btw, you might like to know that my desktop machine is only an 800 MHz
box, but Ardour, JAMin, ecasound, Rosegarden, Hydrogen, etc. all work
beautifully on it, regardless of the underlying system. Linux rules,
Linux audio developers rock. :)
So there's my two ducats.
Best,
dp
3:48 p.m.
Have you tried ecasound? I guarantee your machine is
powerful enough to use ecasound for audio work
--- Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
Brian Dunn wrote:
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
If your system works the way you want it too most
of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
Hi Brian:
I have two machines I use for music (and
everything else too). My
laptop is a PII 366 HP Omnibook 4150, not a very
powerful machine at
all. It isn't suitable for serious audio work,
4:33 p.m.
Sean Edwards wrote:
Have you tried ecasound? I guarantee your machine is
powerful enough to use ecasound for audio work
--- Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I have two machines I use for music (and
>everything else too). My
>laptop is a PII 366 HP Omnibook 4150, not a very
>powerful machine at
>all. It isn't suitable for serious audio work,
>
>
Hi Sean:
Yes, I've used ecasound on this machine. The problem isn't really the
software. The audio chipset is a consumer-grade CS4232 that really isn't
up to the task. I also have PDAudioCF card that works great, but it's
digital-in only.
Btw, the CS4232 works fine with JACK in simplex mode, but I get xruns
aplenty when the device is in full duplex mode. Not so usable for
multitracking.
Really, it's underpowered hardware if I want to do what I mean by
serious audio work. It's okay with non-realtime stuff though.
I agree that ecasound is excellent Linux audio software.
Best,
dp
7:59 p.m.
On Saturday 03 December 2005 21:02, Brian Dunn wrote:
The possibility of using and contributing to studio
quality audio software is really what first sparked my
interest in linux. So I installed Mandrake 10.1,
because someone gave it to me and it sounded cool.
Since then i've had a lot of fun with it, using their
mm kernel and running jack with seq24 and trying to
come up with something cool enough to use ardour for,
and everything ran relatively reliably. BUT... The
lan componets of the distro simply don't work, the USB
plug and play is more like
plug-and-if-i-feel-like-it-play, and the printer
suport is also compleatly unreliable. So, just use
mandrake for when i'm feeling musical and reboot to
Micro$oft whenever i need to do anything else, right?
well, that's getting old.
So i took a friends advice and started playing with
gentoo. After all, it's well documented. and it was
fun writing all those config files and oh so neat to
DIY, but then i tried to install Gnome, and after like
a 7 hour compile that i can't yet figure out how to
use i'm thinking, what have i gotten myself into...
So does anybody out there have the best of all worlds?
good free documentation, reliable hardware support,
binary packaging, a fast audio kernel, and config
files that don't get re-written by some user friendly
script somewhere that would be oh so convinient except
for the whole doesn't work thing?
If your system works the way you want it too most of
the time, i want to hear your opinion.
gratefull,
Brian
Hi Brian. Having seen everyone join in on this post, I thought I may as well
join in the fun.
I started off working with computers in July 2003. Soon after I tried my first
Linux install, MDK 9.2 which proceeded to fry my LG cdrom drive. Fixed that
with a new drive, but no sounds. Then went with FC1 (MDK 9.2 was still there,
as I don't like trashing anything) which installed just fine. A short time
later I found by accident planetccrma. Apart from a few problems getting ALSA
to work, this went ok, and the music apps available from planetccrma are just
fine. I now have, FC1, FC2, FC3 (which has a problem with KDE's kicker
crashing each time I logout, but ALSA works out of the box with this). I also
have Slackware 10.0. Couldn't get ALSA going on this until I got mm kernel
from Audioslack. After that it was no problem. Debian too, I'd had problems
with, but with help from folks on the lists the ALSA problems were resolved,
and there are plenty of music apps available. I would not suggest a Debian
Etch install at the moment. I have 2 Debian Sarge installs with music apps
and no problems with upgrades, but the Debian Sarge/Etch install (all a bit
experimental) is trying to remove a lot of my music apps when doing an
aptitude dist-upgrade. I've already lost Cheesetracker, Wavemixer, and Seq24,
from a previous aptitude dist-upgrade, and didn't want to lose any more music
apps. I'm just waiting at the moment for the apps on the remove list to be
upograded, and turn up on the upgrade list. Gotta be patient with the cutting
edge stuff. Now we really go into the Twilight zone. GENTOO. Man. Perhaps
it's just me, but it took me months to get Gentoo up and running, with help
from a couple of folks posting to this thread. I admit it wasn;t months
continually. I got a bit frustrated, and left it partially installed on the
drive, going back to it from time to time, as it wasn't going to beat me. Now
it's working just fine, music apps and all.
To conclude Brian. I'd probably suggest a Fedora install. Perhaps FC2 or FC3.
Even though FC2 is now only getting security updates from Fedora Legacy, it
still works well. If you have the harddrive space, I'd also have a go at
either Debian Sarge or Gentoo. Debian Sarge is probably the easier. This
means you can work on making some music, while messing about with the more
difficult distro when you feel like it.
Personally, I've painted myself into the corner. I now have so many different
distro's that need upgrading that I've hardly any time to try and make any
music. I'd suggest one distro, easy to install, that you can work with for
your music, another, perhaps more difficult distro to experiment with, which
might work out better for you in the long run.
Just an on the side to Mark, or Christoph if your following this thread. I'm
redlining for the second time on Gentoo's / partition. Got rid of some of the
bytes by removing some kernel sources from /usr/src from the first 100%+
redline. The latest one caused by some heavy updates had me remove the
remaining 2 uninstalled kernel sources to my home partition to give me a bit
of space. / is 7.3GB and 98% full. Please. Any suggestions apart from
reinstalling. Off list, as this ain't audio stuff. Nigel.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch to Brian's problems.
Start with an easy to install distro. FC2, or FC3, with planetccrma support.
if you have enough harddrive space, install another distro, Debian Sarge or
Gentoo. You can play around with these without being stopped from working
with making music on your reliable working distro. Looking forward to seeing
some of your music on the list. Nigel
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