On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote: I've had pretty good luck with Fedora 18. I've tried all the desktops and the lightest thing I've found that actually has most of the comforts of home is OpenBox with the fbpanel Menu/Panel/Taskbar/Clock add-on. -- Twitter: http://twitter.com/znmeb; Computational Journalism on a Stick http://j.mp/CompJournoStick/ The National Coal Institute reminds you, "There's no fuel like an old fuel."

On 02/16/2013 10:50 AM, Folderol wrote: I always get happy when I read things like this. 5 steps and you have a great base to roll out your own Linux audio setup on. Thanks for sharing Will! Jeremy

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 09:50:53AM +0000, Folderol wrote: [...] Of course, if you were running a truly minimum desktop, you don't even need synaptic because apt-get is installed anyway. If you are going to be compiling stuff, then you at least have an xterm, right? -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 05:04:24 +0100, david <gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote: A clear GUI that does provide the history, dependencies, descriptions, lock, install any version, e.g. downgrade, search etc. ... everything available by one click. It's useful to install it to a minimal system. IIRC xterm was mentioned. I guess xterm is installed, as soon X is installed, but it isn't needed for compiling, Ctrl+Alt+F*

On 02/16/2013 08:23 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: OK. How can I use apt-get to tell me exactly what "pkgname" is when I don't know what the package is named? Or grab a package's changelog? I don't claim to have a "truly minimum desktop" installed. I used to work with a whitehat hacker Linux admin who never installed X on a system. He didn't need it. That's a truly minimal desktop! -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On 02/16/2013 10:01 PM, Simon Wise wrote: Thanks. FWIW, anything involving regex is cryptic. ;-) -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On 02/18/2013 09:35 PM, Simon Wise wrote: Or alt-menu shortcut key. ;-) -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On 02/17/2013 02:17 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: Thanks. Useful things to know. No problems! I like synaptic, anyway! -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 08:01:04 +0100, Simon Wise <simonzwise(a)gmail.com> wrote: Using apt and other CLI tools for DEBs IMO is less comfortable. A really nice to use CLI tool is Arch's pacman. On DEB and RPM based distros I prefer a GUI and for Arch I don't use a GUI. However, we have the choice to use, what fits best to our tastes.

On 18/02/13 10:51, david wrote: yes ... that kind of search if there is an error is nice ... what shell/terminal is that? anything using readline under the covers gives tab-completion ... not quite that but it can still save a lot of typing, and avoid some typos to. Certainly big, very flexible programs have big, complicated manpages with lots of options. Here an interface or a script offering only the few common use-cases is much easier to use if you don't need the whole program, hence the many mplayer front ends to choose from. I personally find trying to work out how to use a big, very flexible menu and tab interface (like VLC's for example) much more annoying than finding the options in a manpage. Then if the task is something I'll do again I'll add another line to a text file on the subject, or perhaps save a one-line script, or even put in my desktop panel or keyboard shortcuts if it is a task I repeat a lot. For me its easier to keep a line of text on file than remember a whole swag of settings nested in tabs and menus, but everyone works differently. Simon

On 20/02/13 16:10, david wrote: generally used for occasional tasks that I want to repaet something similar, like setting up a system. I find I need to make notes to repeat it with variations later, and commands are very easy to copy as you go. So I'll already have said file open a year later when doing it again. if its there as a shortcut, not a long term reminder then its put in my path Simon

On Wednesday 20 February 2013 03:10:01 david wrote: At work, I tend to put a lot of stuff into a wiki that has a decent search function. all the best, drew

On Thursday 21 February 2013 00:07:47 david wrote: The wiki approach works great. We keep general info like important phone numbers. IP address usage, one or two liners for bash. All nicely categorized and searchable. all the best, drew

On Thursday 21 February 2013 15:13:18 david wrote: This is at work. There are quite a few people where I work. all the best, drew

On Sat, February 16, 2013 10:23 pm, Chris Bannister wrote: ?? Synaptic is an app, like Ardour is an app. It is nor really a part of the desktop. The desktop is that pile of apps that are started at login and stop at logoff... They are running all the time. The update manager is a different story. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net

On Sun, February 17, 2013 4:00 am, Chris Bannister wrote: Unfortunately, this list does not add a replyto: field so the only way of getting things to the list is with reply all.... or spend time messing with all the header fields. I guess from my POV, disk space is somewhat less precious than memory/cpu time (ei. running resources). This does not make my POV right though. I am running right now on a 40G USB drive which is sort of mid-range these days for an SD drive (this one is mechanical not an SD) and space is not really an issue. Fvwm is one of my favourites. I am using xfce right now (I am testing for Ubuntu Studio)and thinking about what auto started apps I can get rid of. I don't need a file manager for a back ground for example, as I have icons turned off on my desktop (can't see them most of the time anyway). I don't need auto mounters running as I don't ever want something to auto mount while I am doing audio work. I do like the panel for a main menu (there is not always some visible desktop to right click on) and the window buttons space. I only have one monitor and so multi work spaces and a switcher and systray round out my needs/wants. I guess in theory, once X is running all that is needed is an xterm. In fact that used to be the standard when I started (and 4M of ram was $400... and it took 8m to run X). One of the microvax systems I used at work was this way, an xterm and the app menu was what showed up. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 00:36:46 +0800 Simon Wise <simonzwise(a)gmail.com> wrote: It's not so much the mail client as the list settings and the headers it adds to the email (though some clients are broken with regards to this). For me, using the Sylpheed client, a simple reply comes back to the list, while a reply-all goes to the sender with a cc: to the list, which would cause the original sender to get the message twice. When replying to a list, you hardly ever want to reply-all. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh(a)brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa

On Sunday 17 February 2013 11:49:06 Joe Hartley wrote: Nor mally, a simple reply works for me but for some posts, a reply just goes back to the sender. For those, if I catch them, I start again with a reply-all and delete all but the list normally. When I don't catch it, I end up sending driect and not to the list. In those cases, I hopefully catch it later and send again to the list the second time. I have not investigated if this occurs when people cc the list instead of having the mail sent to the list. all the best, drew

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 09:58:35PM +0100, Robin Gareus wrote: Except for this option in the settings page: <begin> Avoid duplicate copies of messages? When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select No to receive copies. If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you elect to receive copies, every copy will have a X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it. (*) No ( ) Yes <begin/> The default is yes! :( The wording is a bit confusing, as it seems to be favouring MUA's that don't have a List reply, 'L' as far as mutt is concerned. For example I normally delete personal replies when it is a list mail, (i.e. the list is either in the To or the CC header.) so that I can do a proper List reply from the appropriate folder/mailbox and I've been bitten by that stupid default option when I've changed to that list's mailbox and the message isn't there! Grrrr! P.S. This list is not the only guilty one. Apparently it is set that way for newbies so they don't get confused :( -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 17:36:46 +0100, Simon Wise &lt;simonzwise(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi Simon, yes, but those "reply to list" options don't work for all lists. I don't have access to my email archive now, but there might be something in the header, that can cause confusion for this option or perhaps it's an issue if the original mail was sent Cc. Different lists have different policies, resp. some are more tolerant, if people don't care about those policies. Len, is an Ubuntu Studio community member and the Ubuntu lists are more tolerant, user friendly. OTOH while there are issues for LAU, with the "reply to list" option, I experienced that the mails anyway are only received one time, whereas on other lists, e.g. the FreeBSD list, you'll receive the mails two times. So even mailman lists seem to have different settings. How far are we willing to go? On another list I know, breaking threads is a no-go, but many people aren't aware that the thread is hidden, that this information is part of the headers. "User" lists should tolerate this. Regards, Ralf

On Sun, 17 Feb 2013 07:23:23 +0100, Chris Bannister &lt;cbannister(a)slingshot.co.nz&gt; wrote: If you don't know the name off a program or you even don't know, if such a program you're looking for does exist, Synaptic can be very helpful. For such a task it's easier to use, or at least more comfortable to use.

On 16/02/13 14:40, Ralf Mardorf wrote: in Debian unstable means changing (4 times a day I think), stable means frozen ... i.e. you have the choice of a version with very current packages (obviously also somewhat less tested) or one which is very much more tested but based on a freeze that was 6 months ago when it is first released, up to 30 months ago by the time it is replaced by next stable version. The freeze really means frozen, but there is the backports system with newer packages if you want. One way to use sid is install it on a second partition, work with it for a bit updating only those few bits that need the fresh fixes ... then once you get the system working as you want ... leave it alone! Forget about the system and do your audio. Some time later you may be tempted by some new features in versions that are now months ahead of the rest of your system, here you need to be careful. Apt-get will show you what it is about to do, say no if it is too drastic! Best copy your system to that other partition so you have a known fully working backup ... then upgrade etc. Something that the (now quite inactive) aptosid did so they could offer a rolling sid using dist-upgrade was they set up a special runlevel in init without X for doing the upgrades in text mode. It isn't that hard, just tweak the /etc/rc.d directories and do init 3 (or whatever) before upgrading. And yes, init and run levels are the default in the soon to be released new stable so it will be default there for another two years. They tend to be very conservative with core system stuff. I used aptosid for many years without a hitch, but they kept a close eye on problems and held back updates with issues so you could dist-upgrade from time to time quite safely. Eventually you will want to upgrade properly ... install a fresh, current sid in your other partition or whatever and get it set up as you like it before swapping to that as your main system. The other very workable Debian option is to use the current stable with a few newer packages from backports. You get much less of the latest, but you do not live on the edge either. I haven't done that but there are at least a few audio packages that get their newish versions ported on backports. Simon

On 17/02/13 05:24, david wrote: I've used aptosid's ancestors that way since that same team made kannotix back when etch was sid ... but it seems that they may have gotten tired of it or something ... only one new release last year and very little other visible activity ... one of the core team (there are about a dozen that have been doing it together since 2006) has set up different version, but unfortunately it does not seem nearly so rigorous, even if it seems a lot more open, friendly and perhaps more active. So not sure about the future of that option. It has been a great not-really-a-distribution for a long time. The deb-multimedia stuff is much less needed than it was a few years ago, and it can certainly bite you with incompatibilities ... esp on sid, their libraries are not always binary compatible but they will be the ones installed on your system (if you don't pin stuff or actively manage what gets brought in from the repository). They version them as more recent than the debian ones for this reason, but unfortunately the other debian audio apps that they don't package sometimes get broken by this, since they are built against the debian libraries. Of course without something from outside you will be missing some things that debian still finds un-redistributable (even after relaxing their approach on software patents and allowing a lot more codecs in). Probably best to just fetch a couple of apps from the repository and install them directly rather than enable the whole repository. Simon

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 08:50:39PM -1000, david wrote: easytag and mplayer(2) are available from the Debian repositories. I don't have the win32 codecs installed and have yet to find a file which doesn't play, although, of course, your needs may be more demanding than mine. Were you using wodim from the command line? You should file a bug, if it is not working for you. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X

On Sun, February 17, 2013 6:22 pm, david wrote: I have had problems with k3b as well (two bad dvds before I gave up), if I use brasero it's ok. I think brasero cd burning (from a toc file) uses cdrdao. gcdmaster is the tool I like best though. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net

On 02/19/2013 10:05 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: I've used K3B for a long time. When it works with your hardware, it's quite good. For a long time on my various desktops, it had some verification bug, in which it would RECORD track 0, then attempt to VERIFY track 1. Sounded like a classic "off-by-one" programming bug. It would then fail to verify. K3B team blamed it on my hardware, but other CD burning software worked with the same hardware. K3B team, of course, continued to blame the hardware. Not just my hardware, but different hardware used by other people who reported the same problem. (Lowered my opinion of the K3B team, FWIW.) -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On Wed, 20 Feb 2013 08:38:19 +0100, david &lt;gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com&gt; wrote: Ok, a hidden feature. I never noticed it. K3b then at least is clearer.

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 07:11:44PM -1000, david wrote: Imagine the state vi/vim would be in if it was decided being user friendly was more important than features! -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X

On Saturday 23 February 2013 12:33:28 Len Ovens did opine: Hey, I resemble that remark. :) The editor I use on the color computer has had several names over the years, vi being the first one. Then somebody made a window device called vi, and I had to rename it vim. Vim it isn't, but it still works fine. And I still use vim on these linux boxes about half the time, but gedit is gradually taking over for writing gcode to run a milling machine or lathe. Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: <http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene> is up! My views <http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml> * Simunye is on a oc3->oc12 <daem0n> simmy: bite me. :) <Simunye> daemon: okay :) I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any...

On Sat, February 23, 2013 9:38 am, Gene Heskett wrote: The colour coding is nice. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Stefan Stefanov &lt;selectany(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: you don't JACK or RT kernel support for this. and indeed, your life wil be simpler *not* using these technologies for use cases they do not target.

Am 25.03.2013 17:30, schrieb Egor Sanin: maybe you like to try GeexBox http://www.geexbox.org/about/what-is-geexbox/

On 02/19/2013 03:48 AM, Len Ovens wrote: Didn't try Brasero until after I'd switched to cdrecord. Haven't tried GCDMaster, I'm not a fan of the GNOME desktop environment. -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On 02/16/2013 08:14 PM, Andreas Kuckartz wrote: I get a Debian Sid rolling release by starting with Aptosid and updated the individual apps I need. I also backup my system partition before doing upgrades. (Yah, I know, I'm weird. Who does backups these days!) -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 16:53:36 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Must admit I was surprised to see adverts in the Software Centre of US 13.04, but apart from that I'm delighted with it so far. Everything is so much snappier than with the Kubuntu 12.04 I used before. Even things like fetching mail is noticeably faster! Software Centre opens if I click a .deb Maybe I'll just uninstall it if I'm allowed. :) OT: How do you like FreeBSD's tcsh shell and configuration? One of the first things I do on any new Linux install is install tcsh and get it working with 'history search' on up/down arrow keys like fbsd, and then get my prompt looking right. Soon feels like home... --

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 23:46:12 -0800, Len Ovens wrote: Thanks for that Len. I'll leave the mode, but watch for updates. I should use bash on Linux, but I got so used to up-arrow history search and ls without colour, that I just always put off the pain of configuring bash to be similar. The set/export differences catch me out sometimes though. I should do it soon (and I just found colour ls is just an alias anyway). --

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 21:55:18 +0100, James Stone &lt;jamesmstone(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Not now James, I'll reboot and install Arch after doing some office homework ;). On the quick. Many apps don't work if you don't delete ~/.cache, something many people experienced on Xubuntu user mailing list too. I for example have got serious issues with Evolution. Opening a mail easily can take a minute. It can't handle junk and has all kinds of bugs. Much of the GTK desktop stuff (not GTK audio apps) seems to be borked, perhaps a dbus issue.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 21:58:50 +0100, Ralf Mardorf &lt;ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net&gt; wrote: PPS: Regarding to terminal usage I'm missing "Scroll Lock" for Linux.