17 Nov
2015
17 Nov
'15
2:59 a.m.
Hello,
I was told by bitwig support to deactivate 'MIDI in Jack's
preferences'. Currently, qjakctl shows 'none' for MIDI driver
(option located at bottom right). They 'recommend using jack over ALSA
alone'. I would like to give this a try. Is there something else to
do to disable jackd MIDI support and have ALSA instead ?
Thanks.
17 Nov
17 Nov
3:08 a.m.
This question is a bit confused.
It is up to an application which API it wants to use for dealing with MIDI
(or audio) data. Disabling the presence of MIDI ports within JACK doesn't
do anything to change what an application does (or at least, it shouldn't)
--p
On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 8:59 PM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com>
wrote:
Hello,
I was told by bitwig support to deactivate 'MIDI in Jack's
preferences'. Currently, qjakctl shows 'none' for MIDI driver
(option located at bottom right). They 'recommend using jack over ALSA
alone'. I would like to give this a try. Is there something else to
do to disable jackd MIDI support and have ALSA instead ?
Thanks.
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
4:01 a.m.
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:02 -0500
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
This question is a bit confused.
It is up to an application which API it wants to use
for dealing with
MIDI (or audio) data. Disabling the presence of MIDI ports within
JACK doesn't do anything to change what an application does (or at
least, it shouldn't)
The problem is that bitwig does not work with jack MIDI. As such I
see it entirely in their ball park to fix it. And then if bitwig is
switched to ALSA (to be able to work with MIDI), it will not be able to
open the audio device as long as jackd runs. There is a problem and it
is certainly not on jack's part, considering the number of applications
that runs with it. But I'm willing to try what they suggest although
indeed it is not clear. The goal would be to have bitwig and Ardour
running together, with MIDI and sound enabled in bitwig (which supports
jack transport BTW). A problem prevents bitwig from using/receiving
MIDI data when it runs configured for jackd. It has sound but no
MIDI. When it runs configured for ALSA, it has MIDI but no sound....
until jackd is terminated.
9:47 a.m.
On 17.11.2015 04:01, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com wrote:
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:02 -0500
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
Did you have a look into JackAss yet?
https://github.com/falkTX/JackAss#readme
I made exactly for those type of hosts that support Jack Audio but not
Jack MIDI.
This question is a bit confused.
It is up to an application which API it wants to use for dealing with
MIDI (or audio) data. Disabling the presence of MIDI ports within
JACK doesn't do anything to change what an application does (or at
least, it shouldn't)
The problem is that bitwig does not work with jack MIDI.
4:19 a.m.
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:02 -0500
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
This question is a bit confused.
The actual text is:
"You're probably asking Jack to handle midi devices, too, which
doesn't work. Please deactivate MIDI in Jack's preferences and
try again. We recommend using jack over alsa alone, as the
performance and stability is way better when using jack."
4:28 a.m.
Their language is not clear to me.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:19 PM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:02 -0500
> Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com
wrote:
>
> > This question is a bit confused.
>
> The actual text is:
>
> "You're probably asking Jack to handle midi devices, too, which
> doesn't work. Please deactivate MIDI in Jack's preferences and
> try again. We recommend using jack over alsa alone, as the
> performance and stability is way better when using jack."
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user
>
1:33 p.m.
On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:19 PM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com
wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:02 -0500 Paul Davis wrote:
>
> "You're probably asking Jack to handle midi devices, too, which
> doesn't work. Please deactivate MIDI in Jack's preferences and
> try again. We recommend using jack over alsa alone, as the
> performance and stability is way better when using jack."
>
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 22:28:50 -0500, Paul Davis wrote:
Their language is not clear to me.
Perhaps Bitwig has got a section "Jack's preferences", were the OP
could chose between jackd audio + jackd MIDI and jackd audio + ALSA
MIDI.
4:03 p.m.
On Mon, November 16, 2015 9:19 pm, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com wrote:
"You're probably asking Jack to handle midi
devices, too, which
doesn't work. Please deactivate MIDI in Jack's preferences and
try again. We recommend using jack over alsa alone, as the
performance and stability is way better when using jack."
Does the ALSA API allow one software to use the audio interface
exclusively, while also allowing a different application to use MIDI on
the same physical device?
That is the only way I can see those instructions making sense, as saying
use JACK for audio, and access the ALSA MIDI directly from Bitwig.
Is that even possible, or once a device interface is claimed for exclusive
access by JACK does that mean both audio and MIDI access for that device
are locked to jackd?
--
Chris Caudle
4:13 p.m.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Chris Caudle <chris(a)chriscaudle.org>
wrote:
On Mon, November 16, 2015 9:19 pm,
jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com wrote:
ALSA considers PCM and MIDI devices on the same "card" to be entirely
independent. So .... yes.
"You're probably asking Jack to handle
midi devices, too, which
doesn't work. Please deactivate MIDI in Jack's preferences and
try again. We recommend using jack over alsa alone, as the
performance and stability is way better when using jack."
Does the ALSA API allow one software to use the audio interface
exclusively, while also allowing a different application to use MIDI on
the same physical device?
That is the only way I can see those instructions
making sense, as saying
use JACK for audio, and access the ALSA MIDI directly from Bitwig.
Is that even possible, or once a device interface is claimed for exclusive
access by JACK does that mean both audio and MIDI access for that device
are locked to jackd?
If JACK (or any other app) uses ALSA RAW MIDI, then the device access is
exclusive. ALSA Sequencer MIDI implies shared access.
4:20 p.m.
On Tue, November 17, 2015 9:13 am, Paul Davis wrote:
ALSA considers PCM and MIDI devices on the same
"card" to be entirely
independent...
If JACK (or any other app) uses ALSA RAW MIDI, then the device access is
exclusive. ALSA Sequencer MIDI implies shared access.
So problem solved? Jonetsu needs to either have jackd not touch ALSA, or
use the seq interface, then configure Bitwig to use jack audio and ALSA
MIDI.
Unfortunately the manual is only available after you install the demo or
full application, so someone else who has Bitwig installed will have to
look through the manual to see if that is actually possible, and if so
what is Jonetsu missing to set that up properly.
--
Chris Caudle
5:12 p.m.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Chris Caudle <chris(a)chriscaudle.org>
wrote:
On Tue, November 17, 2015 9:13 am, Paul Davis wrote:
depends on whether or not bitwig uses the ALSA raw MIDI API. if it does,
then JACK (and everything else) should not touch ALSA MIDI at all. If
Bitwig uses the ALSA sequencer API, then things should be fine either way.
ALSA considers PCM and MIDI devices on the same
"card" to be entirely
independent...
If JACK (or any other app) uses ALSA RAW MIDI, then the device access is
exclusive. ALSA Sequencer MIDI implies shared access.
So problem solved? Jonetsu needs to either have jackd not touch ALSA, or
use the seq interface, then configure Bitwig to use jack audio and ALSA
MIDI.
6:12 p.m.
From: "Chris Caudle"
<chris(a)chriscaudle.org>
Date: 11/17/15 10:21
So problem solved? Jonetsu needs to either have jackd
not touch ALSA, or
use the seq interface, then configure Bitwig to use jack audio and ALSA
MIDI.
Unfortunately the manual is only available after you
install the demo or
full application, so someone else who has Bitwig installed will have to
look through the manual to see if that is actually possible, and if so
what is Jonetsu missing to set that up properly.
I have no problem in sharing screen shots of the configure options and one or two pages of
the manual that has to do with this configuration, if needed. The options are not many
and start with a main choice: jack or ALSA. Based on that choice, other options are
shown. This means that it is not possible to configure partway this and partway that.
After choosing jack, the options are very few and none have to do with for instance,
'do not use jack MIDI'.
I did have a reply from Bitwig today with a series of steps to do and I will give it a
try.
18 Nov
18 Nov
3:56 a.m.
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:13:30 -0500
jonetsu <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com> wrote:
I did have a reply from Bitwig today with a series of
steps to do and
I will give it a try.
Basically it boils down to this. After booting the workstation, bitwig
is started, audio set to jack (not ALSA). There is sound and the MIDI
keyboard works. This is as it should be. Why didn't I see it
before ? Because I was loading what I'm used to work with first, that
is, Ardour. So now bitwig is OK. I start Ardour and load a session.
In this session there is a VST synth plugin. Since the MIDI keyboard
is not seen in the MIDI tab (only in the ALSA tab) in qjackctl (where
Ardour MIDI connections are seen) I have to do:
% a2j_control ehw start
Now the MIDI keyboard and Ardour are found in the same MIDI tab in
qjackctl and a connection can be made between them. Note that apart
from the audio tab, there's no bitwig elsewhere in qjackctl. The
problem is, no MIDI is reaching the VST plugin in Ardour.
What I see is the first app to run gets the MIDI. The other app that
is launched thereafter will not get. It works in both ways: bitwig
first then no MIDI for Ardour. Ardour first then no MIDI for bitwig.
This is extremely reproducible.
The question is now, how to share MIDI between the applications (let
alone which MIDI channel controls what) ?
4:40 a.m.
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 9:56 PM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 12:13:30 -0500
jonetsu <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com> wrote:
As I've explained previously:
* the ALSA "raw" MIDI API implies exclusive device access. Devices
accessed with this API cannot be shared. No data can be exchanged
between applications either (not with this API, at least)
* the ALSA "sequencer" MIDI API implies shared device access, and
allows applications to exchange data as well.
* JACK MIDI backend(s) exist for both of these APIs.
* the JACK MIDI API implies shared device access and allows
applications to exchange data as well.
try running this while JACK + Bitwig are running:
lsof | grep /dev/snd
I did have a reply from Bitwig today with a
series of steps to do and
I will give it a try.
Basically it boils down to this. After booting the workstation, bitwig
is started, audio set to jack (not ALSA). There is sound and the MIDI
keyboard works. This is as it should be. Why didn't I see it
before ? Because I was loading what I'm used to work with first, that
is, Ardour. So now bitwig is OK. I start Ardour and load a session.
In this session there is a VST synth plugin. Since the MIDI keyboard
is not seen in the MIDI tab (only in the ALSA tab) in qjackctl (where
Ardour MIDI connections are seen) I have to do:
% a2j_control ehw start
Now the MIDI keyboard and Ardour are found in the same MIDI tab in
qjackctl and a connection can be made between them. Note that apart
from the audio tab, there's no bitwig elsewhere in qjackctl. The
problem is, no MIDI is reaching the VST plugin in Ardour.
What I see is the first app to run gets the MIDI. The other app that
is launched thereafter will not get. It works in both ways: bitwig
first then no MIDI for Ardour. Ardour first then no MIDI for bitwig.
This is extremely reproducible.
The question is now, how to share MIDI between the applications (let
alone which MIDI channel controls what) ?
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
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7:02 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 11:56 AM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com
wrote:
The question is now, how to share MIDI between the
applications (let
alone which MIDI channel controls what) ?
The issues seems like it could be related to this:
http://answers.bitwig.com/questions/371/solved-midi-io-on-linux
Have you tried any of the solutions on that thread?
12:42 p.m.
There is some misinformation in that thread from Bitwig, also. It is NOT
true that JACK requires exclusive access to MIDI devices.
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 1:02 AM, michael noble <looplog(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 11:56 AM, jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com <
jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com> wrote:
The question is now, how to share MIDI between
the applications (let
alone which MIDI channel controls what) ?
The issues seems like it could be related to this:
http://answers.bitwig.com/questions/371/solved-midi-io-on-linux
Have you tried any of the solutions on that thread?
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24 Nov
24 Nov
3:38 p.m.
New subject: [SOLVED] Re: jackd without MIDI
On Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:59:39 -0500
"jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com" <jonetsu(a)teksavvy.com> wrote:
Currently, qjakctl shows 'none' for MIDI
driver
(option located at bottom right). They 'recommend using jack over ALSA
alone'. I would like to give this a try. Is there something else to
do to disable jackd MIDI support and have ALSA instead ?
This was solved by using virtual MIDI interfaces and a2j with hardware
support. The virtual MIDI interfaces are started at boot time. Then
s2j is started:
% a2j_control ehw start
Then Ardour (Renoise, etc...) can be started and work with as usual.
For Bitwig, the external MIDI controller, shown in the MIDI tab of
qjackctl, is connected to the first virtual MIDI input, and Bitwig is
told to use that virmidi. That way the MIDI controller can be used in
all applications.
The next step could be to have MIDI channels for each of the plugins.
A synth in Bitwig would be on channel 1, a sample in Renoise triggered
from channel 2, another synth in Ardour from channel 3, etc.. With the
controller changing MIDI channel as needed.
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16 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Caudle -
Filipe Coelho -
jonetsu -
jonetsu＠teksavvy.com
-
michael noble -
Paul Davis -
Ralf Mardorf