2 Aug
2007
2 Aug
'07
10:53 a.m.
On Thu Aug 2 21:42 , Erik de Castro Lopo sent:
Ben Firshman wrote:
Actually, no. Most people want a reverb that doesn't require a PhD. to set
up. They want simple controls and a number of alternative spaces (one of the
reasons I like the TAP Reverberator). There are a couple of VST reverbs that
sound great and are simple to use. In the long run, what I'm looking for is
something that sounds good. I don't really care where it comes from or whether
it's free or "free" or libre or "open source" or shareware or
freeware. If I
could afford a Lexicon reverb unit per track I'd buy a bunch of those and use
them outboard and not worry about the plugins. So, the bottom line for me is
that it needs to sound good - period. All other considerations (other than my
limited amount of funds ;-) are irrelevant.
V/R
Jan
---- Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.net
http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.html
Free (not open source) convolution reverb that sounds stunning if you
get some decent impulses. It's stable enough to use on WINE, but does
have a tendency to crash.
With the existance of working FLOSS convolution reverbs (Jace and
Jconv [0]), there is little need to play around with closed source
windows stuff that "does have a tendancy to crash".
Don't you agree? :-) 
2 Aug
2 Aug
11:57 a.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb eviltwin69(a)cableone.net:
If I could afford a Lexicon reverb unit per track
I'd buy a bunch of those and use them outboard and not worry about the
plugins.
Do you really want to use a different reverb on each track? At least if you
are recording music from real instruments I find it very disturbing when each
instrument has its own virtual room. Putting them all in one or two rooms
with different fractions sounds (to my ears) much nicer.
Currently I tend to mix without any additional reverb and use only different
delays (clocked of course). Well, maybe I will add a plate-reverb to the
snare on some tracks...
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
12:40 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 03:56:57PM +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
Do you really want to use a different reverb on each
track? At least if you
are recording music from real instruments I find it very disturbing when each
instrument has its own virtual room. Putting them all in one or two rooms
with different fractions sounds (to my ears) much nicer.
Absolutely agree. I still remember the horrible opera recordings from
DG in the early days of the CD, which had different reverbs on the
voices and the orchestra.
I've never used more than two reverbs on any on the multitrack productions
I've worked on. The only exception would be music for TV drama or film,
where you can use a collection of reverbs for dramatic effect even on
single instruments, never mind if it sounds natural or not.
Production techniques for fully 'synthetic' music may be different,
but for anything trying to produce a natural sound, you normally drive
a reverb from post-fader auxiliary sends. This way you can share a
single reverb for many tracks, and adjust each of them separately to
create depth in the sound picture. Ideally you should combine this
with adjustable delays (in function of source distance) on each
send. It's for this reason that Aella (in it's advanced mode) will
offer multiple inputs, each having their own early reflections but
sharing one reverb tail.
It's one of my gripes with Ardour that it makes this way of working
(standard on traditional consoles) rather difficult as each send
comes in a separate window. The simple solution would be what can
be done on almost all digital consoles: switch the faders to control
auxiliare sends, or use a second set of smaller faders for this.
--
FA
Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Fons Adriaensen:
It's one of my gripes with Ardour that it makes
this way of working
(standard on traditional consoles) rather difficult as each send
comes in a separate window. The simple solution would be what can
be done on almost all digital consoles: switch the faders to control
auxiliare sends, or use a second set of smaller faders for this.
Imagine the widgets for the send as small (horizontal) faders. :)
Could be the same for effects with only one parameter...
Arnold *dreaming*
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
2:10 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 05:56:49PM +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
Imagine the widgets for the send as small (horizontal)
faders. :)
Or one or two vertical ones that replace the meters as long as the
their function is selected. Per-track meters are relatively useless
anyway during mixing.
They could indeed control all sorts of things - a send, an EQ, an
effect parameter,... whatever. This sort of thing is almost standard
on digital consoles (because it's cheaper than zillions of knobs).
--
FA
Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
2:14 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 17:56 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Fons
Adriaensen:
ardour's use of busses+sends will be changing (in trunk) in the next few
months. the new model will much more closely parallel the way hardware
consoles tend to work. and yes, sends will have their gain level
controllable from the main fader by just clicking on its name in that
particular mixer strip.
--p
It's one of my gripes with Ardour that it
makes this way of working
(standard on traditional consoles) rather difficult as each send
comes in a separate window. The simple solution would be what can
be done on almost all digital consoles: switch the faders to control
auxiliare sends, or use a second set of smaller faders for this.
Imagine the widgets for the send as small (horizontal) faders. :)
Could be the same for effects with only one parameter... 
2:30 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
Well that was something I wasn't expecting, and good to hear I think.
Thanks.
Seablade
On 8/2/07, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 17:56 +0200, Arnold Krille wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Fons
Adriaensen:
ardour's use of busses+sends will be changing (in trunk) in the next few
months. the new model will much more closely parallel the way hardware
consoles tend to work. and yes, sends will have their gain level
controllable from the main fader by just clicking on its name in that
particular mixer strip.
--p
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http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
It's one of my gripes with Ardour that it
makes this way of working
(standard on traditional consoles) rather difficult as each send
comes in a separate window. The simple solution would be what can
be done on almost all digital consoles: switch the faders to control
auxiliare sends, or use a second set of smaller faders for this.
Imagine the widgets for the send as small (horizontal) faders. :)
Could be the same for effects with only one parameter... 
2:57 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Hi folks...
Sorry but I need to rant...
On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site (www.drudgereport.com) to
see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with music...
You know of whom he speaks... those of us that set up home studios and do our
recordings at home or where ever... this is a problem? Interacting is
important I agree with Mr. Outhouse but... it's not like the music isn't
being shared... right? And input is received...
You read it if you like... you may read it different but...
Sounds like Mr. Pennyhouse is doing sour grapes because his last album sales
were... errr dismal... I thought his first album was a loser but that's
just me... He inspires like a hot Vicks enema...
Or maybe he gave a listen to some of the web music people and realized how
much better they were doing than he... It could happen... I am sure even he
could, with a little help from his friend "Rocketman", learn to use a
computer too... also... too also... :^O
End of 'official' rant... <heh>
have a good day and a better tomorrow!!!
vince (a.k.a. the old crank) in Maine
3:17 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By-cF0W2JLw
I think this stuff needs to come back.
I've noticed that some of the technology opens the way for lots of
mediocrity. But I equate that with democracy. There's still great stuff
made, and the institution of art/music doesn't belong to anyone. There was
lots of putrid rock put out in the 60's and 70's that was quickly
forgotten. I guess the technology of guitar amps and Moog synths really
killed creativity.
But really, Elton mouths off about random stuff on a regular basis. In my
professional estimation, he doesn't really care either way. People say crap
like that sitting in all-night diners in the middle of nowhere and who
cares; this is just the same deal but from someone who used to be
"important."
-Chuckk
On 8/2/07, Vince Werber <ka1iic(a)prexar.com> wrote:
Hi folks...
Sorry but I need to rant...
On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site (www.drudgereport.com)
to
see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with
music...
You know of whom he speaks... those of us that set up home studios and do
our
recordings at home or where ever... this is a problem? Interacting is
important I agree with Mr. Outhouse but... it's not like the music isn't
being shared... right? And input is received...
You read it if you like... you may read it different but...
Sounds like Mr. Pennyhouse is doing sour grapes because his last album
sales
were... errr dismal... I thought his first album was a loser but that's
just me... He inspires like a hot Vicks enema...
Or maybe he gave a listen to some of the web music people and realized how
much better they were doing than he... It could happen... I am sure even
he
could, with a little help from his friend "Rocketman", learn to use a
computer too... also... too also... :^O
End of 'official' rant... <heh>
have a good day and a better tomorrow!!!
vince (a.k.a. the old crank) in Maine
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
4:21 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Point well taken Chuckk!
I just had to say something tho :-)
Perspective has a bit to do with it all too... Years back I thought Eric
Clapton was really smooth with his recording of 'I'm So Glad' on the
'Fresh
Cream' album... That is until I got a copy of the original recording by Skip
James... Clapton is still 'smooth' but Skip was/is edgy, gutsy and had
heart... All the difference between a stack of amps and a single 'flat top',
an artist and a mic... Less can be better... at least for me...
It just angers me to hear this stuff from the likes of Elton John... Sorry
but I have known, personally, so many guys that have long since passed on
that had more gut for music than than he ever could buy... My first band...
every single member except myself have long since died... Nothing great
about any of us but he had our moments... We did it because we loved it...
never made any money... made a few folks happy I guess...
Personally I have my little studio set up for me... don't plan to release
anything because I am sure everyone would quicky realize I am 'past it'...
Reality does hit a person in the face like a brick... There's a song there
somewhere I am sure <heh> blues too...
Reality is like a brick to the face... hmmm... goodbye yellow brick road???
Have a good one...!!!
vince (melting from the heat in Maine)
On Thursday 02 August 2007 17:17, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By-cF0W2JLw
I think this stuff needs to come back.
I've noticed that some of the technology opens the way for lots of
mediocrity. But I equate that with democracy. There's still great stuff
made, and the institution of art/music doesn't belong to anyone. There was
lots of putrid rock put out in the 60's and 70's that was quickly
forgotten. I guess the technology of guitar amps and Moog synths really
killed creativity.
But really, Elton mouths off about random stuff on a regular basis. In my
professional estimation, he doesn't really care either way. People say
crap like that sitting in all-night diners in the middle of nowhere and who
cares; this is just the same deal but from someone who used to be
"important."
-Chuckk
On 8/2/07, Vince Werber <ka1iic(a)prexar.com> wrote:
> Hi folks...
>
> Sorry but I need to rant...
>
> On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site (www.drudgereport.com)
> to
> see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
> There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
> thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with
> music...
>
> You know of whom he speaks... those of us that set up home studios and do
> our
> recordings at home or where ever... this is a problem? Interacting is
> important I agree with Mr. Outhouse but... it's not like the music isn't
> being shared... right? And input is received...
>
> You read it if you like... you may read it different but...
>
> Sounds like Mr. Pennyhouse is doing sour grapes because his last album
> sales
> were... errr dismal... I thought his first album was a loser but that's
> just me... He inspires like a hot Vicks enema...
>
> Or maybe he gave a listen to some of the web music people and realized
> how much better they were doing than he... It could happen... I am sure
> even he
> could, with a little help from his friend "Rocketman", learn to use a
> computer too... also... too also... :^O
>
> End of 'official' rant... <heh>
>
> have a good day and a better tomorrow!!!
>
> vince (a.k.a. the old crank) in Maine
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
4:38 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:20:53 +0000
Vince Werber <ka1iic(a)prexar.com> wrote:
<snip>
Personally I have my little studio set up for me...
don't plan to release
anything because I am sure everyone would quicky realize I am 'past it'...
Reality does hit a person in the face like a brick... There's a song there
somewhere I am sure <heh> blues too...
Reality is like a brick to the face... hmmm... goodbye yellow brick road???
Have a good one...!!!
vince (melting from the heat in Maine)
I just wish some of the wannabees of today (and probably yesterday)
would take that attitude!
Seriously, I find people who are self-critical tend to produce better
music/art/photos etc. than those that think they are good.
--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
5:09 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On 8/2/07, Folderol <folderol(a)ukfsn.org> wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 14:20:53 +0000
Vince Werber <ka1iic(a)prexar.com> wrote:
<snip>
LIke Franz "burn all of my writings" Kafka.
On the other hand, my favorite artists put out a lot of crap; the thing they
have in common is that they wrote/recorded/drew whatever was on their mind,
and released it without shame. Maybe they come up with 1 in 50 things worth
seeing, but they keep the creativity flowing.
The other thing they have in common is that, while they had varying levels
of success, they did their work out of neurotic compulsion... but I pretend
not to acknowledge that.
-Chuckk
Personally I have my little studio set up for
me... don't plan to
release
anything because I am sure everyone would quicky
realize I am 'past
it'...
Reality does hit a person in the face like a
brick... There's a song
there
somewhere I am sure <heh> blues too...
Reality is like a brick to the face... hmmm... goodbye yellow brick
road???
Have a good one...!!!
vince (melting from the heat in Maine)
I just wish some of the wannabees of today (and probably yesterday)
would take that attitude!
Seriously, I find people who are self-critical tend to produce better
music/art/photos etc. than those that think they are good. 
7:11 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 07:38:20PM +0100, Folderol wrote:
Seriously, I find people who are self-critical tend to
produce better
music/art/photos etc. than those that think they are good.
Yeah, but there has to be a balance between self-criticism and
self-acceptance. Some people I know have such high expectations that
they throw away everything they start and nobody ever hears a note
from them. This also hurts people who try to learn instruments as
adults. A lot of them give up long before they get to the point of
doing anything they'd feel confident enough to share with others.
We could debate whether the world at large is missing out on anything
from those who give up, but often I think they'd be happier in their
own lives if they persevered. Music is not just a product, it's a
process that has inherent value to the musician.
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
11:15 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 17:11 -0400, Paul Winkler wrote:
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 07:38:20PM +0100, Folderol
wrote:
Well said! Too many people give up too soon. I used to play with a
guitarist who was not really very good but about once a night he'd play
something that would just be amazing. For those 5 or 6 seconds he was
probably the best guitarist on the face of the earth. The next 5 or 6
seconds belonged to someone else ;-)
--
Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner
http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chardonnay in one hand, chocolate in the other, body
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming 'WOO HOO, what a ride'"
Seriously, I find people who are self-critical
tend to produce better
music/art/photos etc. than those that think they are good.
Yeah, but there has to be a balance between self-criticism and
self-acceptance. Some people I know have such high expectations that
they throw away everything they start and nobody ever hears a note
from them. This also hurts people who try to learn instruments as
adults. A lot of them give up long before they get to the point of
doing anything they'd feel confident enough to share with others.
We could debate whether the world at large is missing out on anything
from those who give up, but often I think they'd be happier in their
own lives if they persevered. Music is not just a product, it's a
process that has inherent value to the musician.
3 Aug
3 Aug
7:12 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On 8/2/07, Vince Werber <ka1iic(a)prexar.com> wrote:
It just angers me to hear this stuff from the likes of Elton
John... Sorry
but I have known, personally, so many guys that have long since passed on
that had more gut for music than than he ever could buy... My first
band...
every single member except myself have long since died... Nothing great
about any of us but he had our moments... We did it because we loved
it...
never made any money... made a few folks happy I guess...
By the way, I have my own version of "Your Song" that I sing in my head when
it comes on the radio at work. You might like it. My version is called
"Your Mom."
-Chuckk
4 Aug
4 Aug
5:17 a.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
By the way, I have my own version of "Your
Song" that I sing in my
head when it comes on the radio at work. You might like it. My
version is called "Your Mom."
I'll bite :)
What are your lyrics?
R
1:04 p.m.
New subject: Recover ardour session
Hi!
For reasons I still have to investigate Ardour 0.99.3 (I've not yet been able
to compile ardour 2.0) crashed and freezed the system. At reboot, the ardour
session xml file and it's backup became a binary nonsense, while the audio
files are safe. Is there a way to recover the session or not?
thanks in advance!
Carotinho
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
10:32 p.m.
New subject: Recover ardour session
On 8/4/07, Carotinho <carotinobg(a)yahoo.it> wrote:
Hi!
For reasons I still have to investigate Ardour 0.99.3 (I've not yet been able
to compile ardour 2.0) crashed and freezed the system. At reboot, the ardour
session xml file and it's backup became a binary nonsense, while the audio
files are safe. Is there a way to recover the session or not?
Do you still have the .bak file ? the backup might be valid, although
I'm surprised that you managed to corrupt an .ardour file with just a
crash...
__________________
Marc-Olivier Barre.
7 Aug
7 Aug
8:03 a.m.
New subject: Recover ardour session
hi!
Alle 02:32, domenica 5 agosto 2007, Marc-Olivier Barre ha scritto:
Do you still have the .bak file ? the backup might be
valid, although
I'm surprised that you managed to corrupt an .ardour file with just a
crash...
No, the .bak is the same as the other file! I'm very surprised too! I decided
to re-record the tracks, by the way. The crash involved the whole system,
included X. I had to hard-reset to regain control of the computer... It
looked like what happened with some Nvidia proprietary drivers, that locked
down just the X server, while the rest was still running and accessible by
mean of an ssh connection. Next time it happens (I hope it won't happen
again, though) I'll try if it's like this or not.
Bye!
Carotinho
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
4 Aug
4 Aug
2:38 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On 8/4/07, rob <rob(a)curates-egg.org> wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Don't think I should post them here.
-Chuckk
_______________________________________________
By the way, I have my own version of "Your
Song" that I sing in my
head when it comes on the radio at work. You might like it. My
version is called "Your Mom."
I'll bite :)
What are your lyrics?
R Linux-audio-user mailing list
Linux-audio-user(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/linux-audio-user
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
4:49 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 8/4/07, *rob* <rob(a)curates-egg.org
<mailto:rob@curates-egg.org>> wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
So send'em privately. ;-)
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
By the way, I have my own version of "Your
Song" that I sing in my
head when it comes on the radio at work. You might like it. My
version is called "Your Mom."
I'll bite :)
What are your lyrics?
Don't think I should post them here.
-Chuckk
2 Aug
2 Aug
5:24 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Vince Werber wrote:
On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site
(www.drudgereport.com) to
see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with music...
Sir Elton is just mouthing the fundamental RIAA issue with the web. An
artist who produces his or her own music (indies) no longer NEEDS the
RIAA distribution middlemen to sell music. When artists and the public
realize this, it will be the end of the RIAA as a distribution
middleman. Especially as the kinks are worked out of the burn-on-demand
process and stores can sell CDs without having to invest cash in
physical stock.
If the RIAA is smart (like the print publishing industry should become),
they'll realize that their valuable skill is their professional
expertise with making quality content, not making CDs and distributing
them. At which point an artist wouldn't sign with a distributor, they'd
sign with a producer.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
5:44 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
david wrote:
If the RIAA is smart (like the print publishing industry should become),
they'll realize that their valuable skill is their professional
expertise with making quality content, not making CDs and distributing
them. At which point an artist wouldn't sign with a distributor, they'd
sign with a producer.
Simlaf to what Eminem is trying to do now with itunes...
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://lau.linuxaudio.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================
"Anything your mind can see you can manifest physically, then it will
become reality" - Macka B
6:39 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 09:24 -1000, david wrote:
Vince Werber wrote:
good grief, did you even read/listen to what he had to say? it has
absolutely nothing to do with the net as a distribution/retail/exchange
medium.
his comments were primarily about the impact that music technology and
the internet have on the social aspects of art production and
consumption. he really didn't say much at all about money, power or
control.
and i think that he is right, at least in part. however, scapegoating
technology for magnifying an existing feature of human life doesn't make
much sense to me. it was always the case that social, gregarious people
got together with other such people in person, and less social people
did not and hungered for other ways to interact with people. the
internet makes various kinds of social interaction and collaboration
that were unthinkable 30 years ago, and for the most part, this seems
like its probably a good thing, even though more people are making music
alone.
--p
On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web
site (www.drudgereport.com) to
see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with music...
Sir Elton is just mouthing the fundamental RIAA issue with the web.
3 Aug
3 Aug
7:09 a.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
Paul Davis wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 09:24 -1000, david wrote:
No, sorry, didn't. Just was passing on my take on why RIAA is fighting
so fiercely.
Vince Werber wrote:
good grief, did you even read/listen to what he had to say? it has
absolutely nothing to do with the net as a distribution/retail/exchange
medium. On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web
site (www.drudgereport.com) to
see if there was anything new on the ASCAP lawsuits and lo and behold...
There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to shut down the web because he
thinks the web music people are in some way causing a problem with music...
Sir
Elton is just mouthing the fundamental RIAA issue with the web. his comments were primarily about the impact that
music technology and
the internet have on the social aspects of art production and
consumption. he really didn't say much at all about money, power or
control.
OK.
and i think that he is right, at least in part.
however, scapegoating
technology
It's also a generational thing.
for magnifying an existing feature of human life
doesn't make
much sense to me. it was always the case that social, gregarious people
I've never heard Elton John described as a shy, retiring introvert!
Extroverts simply do not and cannot understand introverts, and simply
think that The Extrovert Way is the natural and desirable way for
everyone to be!
got together with other such people in person, and
less social people
did not and hungered for other ways to interact with people. the
internet makes various kinds of social interaction and collaboration
that were unthinkable 30 years ago, and for the most part, this seems
like its probably a good thing, even though more people are making music
alone.
I also agree, although technology doesn't yet have a real substitute for
the most creative times when I was making a living from music - everyone
in the band there, just playing and jamming and trying out things,
pinging off each other. I really think it takes special artists to make
a great album without ever seeing each other - IIRC, The Beatles did
such a thing, recording tracks in their individual studios, routing them
around as master tapes, etc.
I also think that long term, spreading the technology to make music will
lead to overall better music. It enables people to make music for a
whole group of musicians, and have a good idea of what it sounds like,
without having to gather a group of musicians to play it. As the
technology enables sharing, more people will be exposed to more
varieties of music.
Older generation film camera photographers seem to say Elton
John-sort-of-things about the spread of digital photography, while
forgetting that one of the reasons they became so good at photography
was plain and simple - a lot of practice. I've shot photos since before
I was in high school, but the cost of film and developing really kept
the practicing down. Since getting my current digital SLR 21 months ago,
I've shot over 25000 frames.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
7:12 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On 8/2/07, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 09:24 -1000, david wrote:
Well, what he said has nothing to do with that, but why he said it... Well
if it was someone who wasn't senile I would suspect they had ulterior
motives, but with him who knows.
his comments were primarily about the impact that music technology and
Vince Werber wrote:
> On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site (
www.drudgereport.com)
to
> see if there was anything new on the ASCAP
lawsuits and lo and
behold...
> There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to
shut down the web because
he
> thinks the web music people are in some way
causing a problem with
music...
Sir Elton is just mouthing the fundamental RIAA issue with the web.
good grief, did you even read/listen to what he had to say? it has
absolutely nothing to do with the net as a distribution/retail/exchange
medium. the internet have on the social aspects of art
production and
consumption. he really didn't say much at all about money, power or
control.
and i think that he is right, at least in part. however, scapegoating
technology for magnifying an existing feature of human life doesn't make
much sense to me. it was always the case that social, gregarious people
got together with other such people in person, and less social people
did not and hungered for other ways to interact with people. the
internet makes various kinds of social interaction and collaboration
that were unthinkable 30 years ago, and for the most part, this seems
like its probably a good thing, even though more people are making music
alone.
I think there is music that gets produced and sold now that could never have
made profit in the 80's. One other result of increased communication,
including the internet, is that people with similar non-mainstream interests
can find each other. Now certain musicians can have an audience that never
could have found their audience without the help of large corporations
before, and large corporations had no reason to help them. I think of Beck
as being this way. I'm not sure how much role the internet had per se in
his obtaining contracts, but the general increase in communication
technology definitely helped. Primus comes to mind as well: they could only
turn a profit by appealing to 1 out of 10 people in a million groups.
Also, in some ways, creativity works better with individuals. Once you
start collaborating on your vision, it can get diluted. It always amazes me
when people can pull off some huge project involving dozens of people that
retains some really quirky creativity. "Being John Malkovich" comes to
mind, and Southpark. How do some visionaries keep the producers from
reigning them in? I don't think that art produced by isolated individuals
is generally worse than that made by people who are "out there". The
isolated individuals are just more likely to snap and gun down everyone in
their workplace or school. But maybe in some ways we all benefit from that
too.
Apparently Elton's comments didn't just disappear as I predicted. Jimmy
Kimmel made a joke about it last night. I hate, though, how someone can say
something like "I'd like it if they shut down the internet just for 5
years," and others then say "Elton John wants to eliminate the internet."
lol people
-Chuckk
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
7:29 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 17:06 -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 8/2/07, Paul Davis
<paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 09:24 -1000, david wrote:
thats ridiculously insulting and unnecessary.
Vince Werber wrote:
> On a lark I surfed over to Matt Drudge's web site
(www.drudgereport.com) to
> see if there was anything new on the ASCAP
lawsuits and lo
and behold...
> There is a story about Sir Elton wanting to
shut down the
web because he
> thinks the web music people are in some way
causing a
problem with music...
Sir Elton is just mouthing the fundamental RIAA issue with
the web.
good grief, did you even read/listen to what he had to say? it
has
absolutely nothing to do with the net as a
distribution/retail/exchange
medium.
Well, what he said has nothing to do with that, but why he said it...
Well if it was someone who wasn't senile I would suspect they had
ulterior motives, but with him who knows. I think there is music that gets produced and sold now
that could
never have made profit in the 80's.
could be. but most of its not making a profit in the naughties either,
just like most music in the 90's, 80's and before.
One other result of increased communication,
including the internet,
is that people with similar non-mainstream interests can find each
other.
if they can be bothered, between playing WoW/guitar hero/katamari,
texting friends on their phones, and popping yet another DVD in one of
the many players at home.
Now certain musicians can have an audience that never
could have
found their audience without the help of large corporations before,
and large corporations had no reason to help them. I think of Beck as
being this way.
Beck? Beck predates the rise of the internet. Wikipedia says "He first
came to wider public attention with his breakthrough single "Loser", a
hit in 1994,". 1994 ... i was just getting the insides of Amazon started
in 1994, i think that can be said to predate the internet as that term
is commonly understood today, or at least be contemporaneous with it at
a time when audio-via-dialup was not practical.
I'm not sure how much role the internet had per
se in his obtaining
contracts, but the general increase in communication technology
definitely helped. Primus comes to mind as well: they could only turn
a profit by appealing to 1 out of 10 people in a million groups.
never heard of primus, which i guess proves your point.
Also, in some ways, creativity works better with
individuals. Once
you start collaborating on your vision, it can get diluted.
true, to a point. but the real masterpieces often involve people who are
already very very good collaborating with others. and there are many
skills in music making that are better/deeper/quicker learnt by playing
with others.
It always amazes me when people can pull off some
huge project
involving dozens of people that retains some really quirky creativity.
"Being John Malkovich" comes to mind, and Southpark. How do some
visionaries keep the producers from reigning them in?
generally, by either self-producing or finding very like-minded
producers.
I don't think that art produced by isolated
individuals is generally
worse than that made by people who are "out there".
its nothing to do with the quality of the art. its to do with the social
role of art in bringing together artists and audiences in varuous
combinations.
--p
8:40 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On 8/3/07, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
Now that's ridiculously insulting and unnecessary. I don't see any
difference between wasting time with technology and wasting time without
it. If the millions of people playing WoW et al don't stop the people who
create great music as a result of the internet (e.g. having access to free
software as a result of the internet, learning how to use granular synthesis
as a result of the internet, studying psychoacoustics as a result of the
internet), then who cares?
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 17:06 -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 8/2/07, Paul Davis
<paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
good grief, did you even read/listen to what
he had to say? it
If you're insulted that I called him senile, then nevermind; my point is
still that just because he didn't say he was attacking the internet for
intellectual property reasons doesn't mean he wasn't attacking the internet
for intellectual property reasons.
has
absolutely nothing to do with the net as a
distribution/retail/exchange
medium.
Well, what he said has nothing to do with that, but why he said it...
Well if it was someone who wasn't senile I would suspect they had
ulterior motives, but with him who knows.
thats ridiculously insulting and unnecessary. One other
result of increased communication, including the internet,
is that people with similar non-mainstream interests can find each
other.
if they can be bothered, between playing WoW/guitar hero/katamari,
texting friends on their phones, and popping yet another DVD in one of
the many players at home. Now certain musicians can have an audience that never
could have
Then read what I wrote. "Increased communication, including the
internet..."
came to wider public attention with his breakthrough single "Loser", a
found their audience without the help of large
corporations before,
and large corporations had no reason to help them. I think of Beck as
being this way.
Beck? Beck predates the rise of the internet. Wikipedia says "He first hit in 1994,". 1994 ... i was just getting the
insides of Amazon started
in 1994, i think that can be said to predate the internet as that term
is commonly understood today, or at least be contemporaneous with it at
a time when audio-via-dialup was not practical.
Nerds were communicating across continents without the interference of
content programmers. I recall a friend of mine downloading a slew of Dave
Mathews tablatures from newsgroups around that time. That couldn't have
been an isolated incident, and it has to affect sales. They say the best
advertising is word-of-mouth; how can the ability to talk to people in other
time zones not affect that?
I'm not sure how much role the internet had per
se in his obtaining
Well if you've ever seen the intro to an episode of Southpark, you've heard
their music. Their contract does predate the "rise" of the internet, but
again, I don't think they would have been signed 10 years earlier, and I
think technology played a role.
contracts, but the general increase in
communication technology
definitely helped. Primus comes to mind as well: they could only turn
a profit by appealing to 1 out of 10 people in a million groups.
never heard of primus, which i guess proves your point. I don't think that art produced by isolated
individuals is generally
No, Elton was talking about the quality of the art. Did you read what he
said?
"Instead they sit at home and make their own records, which is sometimes OK
but it doesn't bode well for long-term artistic vision."
If the internet was shut down, he says, "I'm sure, as far as music goes, it
would be much more interesting than it is today."
And he's wrong.
-Chuckk
worse than that made by people who are "out
there".
its nothing to do with the quality of the art. its to do with the social
role of art in bringing together artists and audiences in varuous
combinations.
9:32 p.m.
New subject: <OT> 'Sir' Elton John (a.k.a. Pennyhouse with rolls) wants to shut down the web <off topic>
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 18:40 -0400, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 8/3/07, Paul Davis
<paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
internet,
my point is that people have many more immediate distractions available
to them today without ever leaving their own homes. the motivation to
meet people with *any* other interests gets reduced somewhat when you
can happily keep the old synapses firing away by yourself.
is that people with similar non-mainstream
interests can
find each
other.
if they can be bothered, between playing WoW/guitar
hero/katamari,
texting friends on their phones, and popping yet another DVD
in one of
the many players at home.
Now that's ridiculously insulting and unnecessary. I don't see any
difference between wasting time with technology and wasting time
without it. If the millions of people playing WoW et al don't stop
the people who create great music as a result of the internet ( e.g.
having access to free software as a result of the internet, learning
how to use granular synthesis as a result of the internet, studying
psychoacoustics as a result of the internet), then who cares?
its nothing to do with the quality of the art. its to do with
the social
role of art in bringing together artists and audiences in
varuous
combinations.
No, Elton was talking about the quality of the art. Did you read what
he said?
"Instead they sit at home and make their own records, which is
sometimes OK but it doesn't bode well for long-term artistic vision."
If the internet was shut down, he says, "I'm sure, as far as music
goes, it would be much more interesting than it is today."
And he's wrong.
i believe that his point is that without the social interaction the
quality of the music/art suffers. and i think he's right about that, but
probably wrong about the magnitude of the effect.
--p
2 Aug
2 Aug
2:53 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Paul Davis:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 17:56 +0200, Arnold Krille
wrote:
Whoop, whoop! Yippie! "Jo, is denn heut scho Weihnachten?" (*)
Arnold
PS: Famous (from a tv-comercial with Franz Beckenbauer) bavarian slang
for: "Is today christmas eve?"
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Fons
Adriaensen:
ardour's use of
busses+sends will be changing (in trunk) in the next few
months. the new model will much more closely parallel the way hardware
consoles tend to work. and yes, sends will have their gain level
controllable from the main fader by just clicking on its name in that
particular mixer strip. It's one of my gripes with Ardour that it
makes this way of working
(standard on traditional consoles) rather difficult as each send
comes in a separate window. The simple solution would be what can
be done on almost all digital consoles: switch the faders to control
auxiliare sends, or use a second set of smaller faders for this.
Imagine the
widgets for the send as small (horizontal) faders. :)
Could be the same for effects with only one parameter...
7:01 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 12:13:40PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
ardour's use of busses+sends will be changing (in
trunk) in the next few
months. the new model will much more closely parallel the way hardware
consoles tend to work. and yes, sends will have their gain level
controllable from the main fader by just clicking on its name in that
particular mixer strip.
That's good news !
But I hope you will keep the flexible busses we have now. It should
be not a great problem to combine the best of both worlds.
As you describe it, it will be possible to switch individual track
faders to control a send. This is very useful, but you also want
to do this globally, e.g. to set up a monitor mix. Having to switch
all faders one by one is no practical solution.
There's a problem with Ardour's flexibility here: since it has no
predefined sends, there's no place to put a button that would switch
all faders to control any particular send. One solution would be to
require that a send must go to a bus. This both provides a master
control for the send, and a place to put a button that would switch
all faders.
--
FA
Follie! Follie! Delirio vano è questo !
7:13 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 23:08 +0200, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
There's a problem with Ardour's flexibility
here: since it has no
predefined sends, there's no place to put a button that would switch
all faders to control any particular send. One solution would be to
require that a send must go to a bus. This both provides a master
control for the send, and a place to put a button that would switch
all faders.
every track will atuomatically get a send to every bus.
--p
11:18 p.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 05:12:53PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 23:08 +0200, Fons Adriaensen
wrote:
Yay!!
- -ken
There's a problem with Ardour's
flexibility here: since it has no
predefined sends, there's no place to put a button that would switch
all faders to control any particular send. One solution would be to
require that a send must go to a bus. This both provides a master
control for the send, and a place to put a button that would switch
all faders.
every track will atuomatically get a send to every bus.
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3 Aug
3 Aug
5:19 a.m.
New subject: Reverb status?
Am Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 schrieb Paul Davis:
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 23:08 +0200, Fons Adriaensen
wrote:
Uh, is that wise? I am currently recording the drums to one 8-channel track
and than splitting it up via buses for effects and mixing. I wouldn't want a
send in every vocal track to route the singer to the Snare-Bus.
Maybe each bus should have a checkbox to select wether it should be a global
send or not. And wether its a pre- or post-fader send...
Arnold
--
visit http://www.arnoldarts.de/
---
Hi, I am a .signature virus. Please copy me into your ~/.signature and send me
to all your contacts.
After a month or so log in as root and do a rm / -rf. Or ask your
administrator to do so...
There's a problem with Ardour's
flexibility here: since it has no
predefined sends, there's no place to put a button that would switch
all faders to control any particular send. One solution would be to
require that a send must go to a bus. This both provides a master
control for the send, and a place to put a button that would switch
all faders.
every track will atuomatically get a send to every bus.
6360
days inactive
6365
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
33 comments
16 participants
participants (16)
-
Arnold Krille -
Carotinho -
Chuckk Hubbard -
david -
eviltwin69＠cableone.net -
Folderol -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jan Depner
-
Ken Restivo -
Marc-Olivier Barre -
Patrick Shirkey -
Paul Davis -
Paul Winkler -
rob -
Thomas Vecchione -
Vince Werber