Hey Diego! NON is generally a nice approach. The problem I had with it, as far as I remember, is that it does not support MIDI. Which really kills the whole deal for me, since the rest of Linux Audio apps are MIDI apps. Somewhere on the NON site there was a lengthy instruction on how to setup a bridge between MIDI and OSC, but that was not my cup of tea, that kind of tech voodoo. The power of Linux Audio - the diversity of solutions - is at the same time its weakness, as typically your setup at any given time will reliably have apps that fall out of your routine. Currently for me it is seq24 that does not work with JACK Transport. If this is going to be fixed someday, by that time some other app might have another problem. At the same time seq24 has no reliable automation (I was told it is there, I found nothing, tbh). And also seq24 has weird volume editing. As mentioned with NON, it does not support MIDI. Ardour 3 works great, but does not support DSSI, so no WhySynth or Nekobee, for instance. The list goes on. There is always a "but". And it is absolutely normal, as each app is a project in of itself. Even if it is supposed to be a tool that makes sense only with other applications, rarely apps are designed with the whole environment and/or too much time and effort is required to accommodate said environment. And so you end up with this shattered puzzle. You put one piece in - another falls out. This is why I believe a different approach would be great - basically, a modular all-in-one system, meaning modules that are designed to speak to each other. How realistic is that to make? Don't know. -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/

On 07/02/2013 02:55 PM, Louigi Verona wrote: Well, PyDAW seems to fit the bill. Of course, everyone hates the developer so there's no enlightened discussion possible here. (It would not be amiss to suggest that he made himself less than likeable). AFAIK I'm the only one on this list who looked beyond the personality to actually use the man's software. And it is exactly what you describe, a closed-modular system of audio/MIDI recording and editing tools, with effects and instruments prepackaged and immediately available for use. (His synths are really nice, btw). Jeff has continued to develop the program and I look forward to testing his latest additions. Yes, he despises JACK and I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel all that kindly towards ALSA. So what ? Are these things sacred cows, never to be disturbed from their current positions ? And if he's offensive, maybe he takes it far more seriously than we think, and maybe just maybe he has thought through to a very different Tao of Linux audio. In another example, the OSS/Linux guys think differently about it, and they have a viable product. When I asked "What sucks about Linux audio ?" I got a lot of replies that support the contention that all is NOT well in the Linux audio world. At the same time it occurred to me that that's just how it is here, and if you (the impersonal "you", not you specifically, Louigi) want to influence the way things go - in the same way that a specific group of people determined the current path beginning in the late 1990s - then you'd best get up and start moving, because there's talking and walking. Talk's cheap. And the required walking skills are not inconsiderable. Developers of Win/Mac music software listen to users because they pay them for a product. Can't escape the economics of the thing, it matters whether you like it or not. If I want to keep my customer base then I attend to their needs, else I don't get paid, and I might as well pass the hat at Louigi Verona gigs. So we can keep talking or we can start paying. Paul Davis has developed Ardour thanks to contributions. I highly doubt it would have reached its current level without the money coming in. Rui has a good day gig, and he's taken his own sweet time to develop QTractor. (Is it out of alpha yet, Rui ? :) Not to speak for them, but I suggest that both of these gentlemen react positively to cash injections. OTOH I think things are likely to be just swell for people like myself. My use cases are not so machine-centric, and I don't need the standard tools for EDM. Selfishly speaking, things are looking great from my POV. But if I have a concern for the continued development of Linux audio software then I must consider the needs of my colleagues who do require those other tools. Their immediate concerns may not matter to me, but their longer-term involvement is critically determined by the availability of their needed tools. Too much stasis, and sooner or later even Louigi is going back to Windows. And I'd rather not lose colleagues with his capabilities. Rant over. Peace out. dp

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Dave Phillips <dlphillips(a)woh.rr.com> wrote: far too busy to get involved in one of these threads, but i thought i should repeat something i've said many times before, in various ways. you will NOT find the developers of audio apps on OS X or Windows wasting much time cursing out CoreAudio or WDM or WaveRT, certainly not in public. These features of their landscape are fixed and not subject to change through any efforts they can make (other than bug reports and so forth). and yes, those systems are far from perfect, but they are THE systems you get to use on their respective platforms, whether you like it or not. linux has always had the problem that nobody really wields a big enough stick - it is always possible to image and more importantly to actually implement an entirely different approach to a particular aspect of the kernel and userspace subsystems. as a result of this, we get benefits (some really innovative stuff happens first on linux) and we get disadvantages (because expertise and hours are spent "fixing" systems that you'd just have to deal with on other platforms). one final small note for louigi regarding things like "why ardour doesn't support DSSI". logic on OS X doesn't support VST. the proprietary world is not so diffferent :) of course, there is one important difference: nobody but apple could ever add VST support to logic. anyone could add DSSI support to ardour, if they had the knowledge and desire. i'm just not that person.

On 07/02/2013 09:12 PM, Louigi Verona wrote: Well, ages ago, I was one of the first users of CorelDRAW. Fed them many bug reports and UI feedback. Won't claim to make a big difference, but I did isolate a serious bug sufficiently that they could finally fix it. They rewarded me with a free upgrade to v2. So it's pretty cool when a developer rewards (me) by putting out a better version! I know a lot of Windows users just put up with problems, maybe grumble a little bit, but figure it's just the way computers are. I work with a number of them. My biggest complaint about Microsoft is that they have convinced users to accept computer and application crashes as "normal". Reminds me, sometime I must start learning Ardour. -- David gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Harry van Haaren <harryhaaren(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: I've been made aware (thanks FalkTX) that this type of OSC protocol is available, although I believe some details are still gritty. I'm not one of the devs, so can't reliably comment. Links: https://github.com/original-male/non/issues/61 https://github.com/falkTX/Carla/issues/44