1 Sep
2009
1 Sep
'09
8:04 a.m.
The first milestone is reached and result is a tarball that brave souls
may want to download and try. It contains implementation of JACK
multiconfig functionality. JACK server settings can be saved as part of a
studio. Then, loading studio will cause JACK settings stored as part of
the studio to be restored.
Build will produce three operational components:
* ladishd - The daemon, a D-Bus service
* gladish - GTK GUI interface
* ladish_control - Command-line interface
In the tarball you will also find bundled suitable (latest and gratest)
flowcanvas and LADI Tools.
Download:
http://ladish.org/download/ladish-0.1.tar.bz2
http://ladish.org/download/ladish-0.1.tar.bz2.sig
Homepage: http://ladish.org/
Roadmap: http://ladish.org/roadmap
---------------------------------------------------------------------
LADI Session Handler or simply ladish is a session management system
for JACK applications on GNU/Linux. Its aim is to allow you to have
many different audio programs running at once, to save their setup,
close them down and then easily reload the setup at some other
time. ladish doesn't deal with any kind of audio or MIDI data itself;
it just runs programs, deals with saving/loading (arbitrary) data and
connects JACK ports together. It can also be used to move entire
sessions between computers, or post sessions on the Internet for
download.
ladish has GUI frontend, gladish, based on lpatchage (LADI Patchage)
and the ladish_control command line app for headless operation. LADI
Tools is set of apps that interface with ladish, JACK server and
a2jmidid
ladish requires D-Bus and JACK compiled with D-Bus support.
LADI Session Handler is rewrite of LASH.
Project goals:
* Save and restore sets of JACK (audio and MIDI) enabled
applications.
* Provide JACK clients with virtual hardware ports, so projects can
be transfered (or backups restored) between computers running
different hardware and backups.
* Don't require session handling library to be used. There is no need
of such library for restoring connections between JACK clients.
* Flow canvas based GUI. Positions of elements on the canvas are
saved/restored.
* Allow clients to use external storage to save its state. This
includes storing internal state to non-filesystem place like memory
of a hardware synth. This also includes storing client internal
state (client project data) in a way that is not directly bound to
ladish project.
* Import/export operations, as opposed to save/load. Save/load
operate in current system and may cause saving data outside of
project itself (external storage). Import/export uses/produces
"tarball" suitable for transferring session data over network to
other computer or storing it in a backup archive.
* Hierarchical or tag-based organization of projects.
* List of JACK applications. Applications are always started through
ladish to have restored runtime environment closer to one existed
before project save.
* Distributed studio - network connected computers. Netjack
configuration is part of the studio and thus is saved/restored.
* Collaborate with the X11 window manager so window properties like
window position, virtual desktop and screen (multimonitor) are
saved/restored.
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
1 Sep
1 Sep
8:18 a.m.
In the future I will test ladish. While I don't like jack_snapshot and
lash very much, I do like qtractor a lot.
I guess a good idea would be not to use a mess of Linux audio apps, but
one application that stores audio and MIDI connections and is able to
include virtual synth and fx and is a sequencer and hd recorder,
qtractor does, qtractor is.
Anyway, if I e.g. like to use Rosegarden because of some features and
QSampler because I need a GIG, something better than jack_snapshot and
lash is welcome :).
I'm interested in ladish and glad that somebody did think about the
features ladish will cover. Hopefully I'll be able to use it, while
jack_snapshot is easy to use, lash is a PITA.
I'll be very impressed if this should be fine:
"* Collaborate with the X11 window manager so window properties like
window position, virtual desktop and screen (multimonitor) are
saved/restored."
Thank you, a good idea to save this too. I'll give ladish a chance.
Cheers,
Ralf
Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
The first milestone is reached and result is a tarball
that brave souls
may want to download and try. It contains implementation of JACK
multiconfig functionality. JACK server settings can be saved as part of a
studio. Then, loading studio will cause JACK settings stored as part of
the studio to be restored.
Build will produce three operational components:
* ladishd - The daemon, a D-Bus service
* gladish - GTK GUI interface
* ladish_control - Command-line interface
In the tarball you will also find bundled suitable (latest and gratest)
flowcanvas and LADI Tools.
Download:
http://ladish.org/download/ladish-0.1.tar.bz2
http://ladish.org/download/ladish-0.1.tar.bz2.sig
Homepage: http://ladish.org/
Roadmap: http://ladish.org/roadmap
---------------------------------------------------------------------
LADI Session Handler or simply ladish is a session management system
for JACK applications on GNU/Linux. Its aim is to allow you to have
many different audio programs running at once, to save their setup,
close them down and then easily reload the setup at some other
time. ladish doesn't deal with any kind of audio or MIDI data itself;
it just runs programs, deals with saving/loading (arbitrary) data and
connects JACK ports together. It can also be used to move entire
sessions between computers, or post sessions on the Internet for
download.
ladish has GUI frontend, gladish, based on lpatchage (LADI Patchage)
and the ladish_control command line app for headless operation. LADI
Tools is set of apps that interface with ladish, JACK server and
a2jmidid
ladish requires D-Bus and JACK compiled with D-Bus support.
LADI Session Handler is rewrite of LASH.
Project goals:
* Save and restore sets of JACK (audio and MIDI) enabled
applications.
* Provide JACK clients with virtual hardware ports, so projects can
be transfered (or backups restored) between computers running
different hardware and backups.
* Don't require session handling library to be used. There is no need
of such library for restoring connections between JACK clients.
* Flow canvas based GUI. Positions of elements on the canvas are
saved/restored.
* Allow clients to use external storage to save its state. This
includes storing internal state to non-filesystem place like memory
of a hardware synth. This also includes storing client internal
state (client project data) in a way that is not directly bound to
ladish project.
* Import/export operations, as opposed to save/load. Save/load
operate in current system and may cause saving data outside of
project itself (external storage). Import/export uses/produces
"tarball" suitable for transferring session data over network to
other computer or storing it in a backup archive.
* Hierarchical or tag-based organization of projects.
* List of JACK applications. Applications are always started through
ladish to have restored runtime environment closer to one existed
before project save.
* Distributed studio - network connected computers. Netjack
configuration is part of the studio and thus is saved/restored.
* Collaborate with the X11 window manager so window properties like
window position, virtual desktop and screen (multimonitor) are
saved/restored.
9:37 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hello Nedko!
I've just got ladish and I'm installing it. I've looked into the
requirements. I see there's a lot of GUI and GUI-related, which seems to be
required. My question: Could you consider making as much as possible of the
GUI-stuff optional. I don't have and I don't need any GUI, so I need to
install quite a bit. In any case, the daemon itself doesn't require it, so
does the minimum user tool (ladi_control).
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
9:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> writes:
Hello Nedko!
I've just got ladish and I'm installing it. I've looked into the
requirements. I see there's a lot of GUI and GUI-related, which seems
to be required. My question: Could you consider making as much as
possible of the GUI-stuff optional. I don't have and I don't need any
GUI, so I need to install quite a bit. In any case, the daemon itself
doesn't require it, so does the minimum user tool (ladi_control).
Making GUI stuff optional is perfectly possible and I like the idea. Do
you want to make a patch (or git commit somewhere) for this?
the command-line tool is called ladish_control not ladi_control
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
9:55 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Oops, sorry about the ladi_control.
Well I think I can't do the patch. I can have a look, but this will take
time and energy, I'm not much into configurations and I've never seen the waf
system. I gather it's python based.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
9:52 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Julien Claassen wrote:
Hello Nedko!
I've just got ladish and I'm installing it. I've looked into the
requirements. I see there's a lot of GUI and GUI-related, which seems to be
required. My question: Could you consider making as much as possible of the
GUI-stuff optional. I don't have and I don't need any GUI, so I need to
install quite a bit. In any case, the daemon itself doesn't require it, so
does the minimum user tool (ladi_control).
Kindest regards
Julien
I don't had time to download, compile and install it, but for me ladish
is interesting because of storing and restoring virtual desktops. I do
understand that someone wish to have an option not to include storage
and restore of GUIs and I don't know if the GUI stuff has something to
do with the desktop stuff, but I think so. To make it optional is a fair
desire, but please as keep as default to enable any features. ;).
9:58 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hello Ralf!
I think part of the GUI-stuff is necessary to restore the GUI bits of your
studio, but part isn't. Part of the GUI stuff is for displaying ladish's own
graphical tools. And they certainly are not needed to adminstrate the ladish
system.
but certainly, I don't have any problems with as much as possible being
default.
If waf is any good, it should be able to detect what's there and then base a
decision on what to include and what not, informing you on the way. Like i.e.
the oggvorbis tools. If you don't have libcurl/curl it says: Not enabling
ogg123 and gives a reason.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
10 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> writes:
Julien Claassen wrote:
The feature you are mentioning (window positions and virtual desktops)
is goal that is not achieved yet.
It has nothing to do with build requirements of ladish. The ones Julien
talks about are for gladish, the GUI control app. It is perfectly fine
to load project with GUI JACK apps in it from commandline through
ladish_control. And it is perfectly fine to load project GUI-less JACK
apps from gladish or LADI Tools.
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
Hello Nedko!
I've just got ladish and I'm installing it. I've looked into the
requirements. I see there's a lot of GUI and GUI-related, which
seems to be required. My question: Could you consider making as much
as possible of the GUI-stuff optional. I don't have and I don't need
any GUI, so I need to install quite a bit. In any case, the daemon
itself doesn't require it, so does the minimum user tool
(ladi_control).
Kindest regards
Julien
I don't had time to download, compile and install it, but for me
ladish is interesting because of storing and restoring virtual
desktops. I do understand that someone wish to have an option not to
include storage and restore of GUIs and I don't know if the GUI stuff
has something to do with the desktop stuff, but I think so. To make it
optional is a fair desire, but please as keep as default to enable any
features. ;).
10:11 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
writes:
The feature you are mentioning (window positions and virtual desktops)
is goal that is not achieved yet.
Hi Nedko :)
I guess I'm well known for my unwanted criticism about Linux audio ;).
Shame on me ;).
I'm glad to see that you plan to include it :). Okay, so for me that
means, that I don't need to download and compile ladish today, but I
should have a peep ;).
The ones Julien talks about
I'm not fine with this, but I suspect that e.g. Orca needs some "GUI"
stuff, I might be completely wrong ;).
Cheers,
Ralf
10:21 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
OK, I decided to do a quickie on-list, because I think it might be of
interest. This is about blind people and screenreaders. If your not
interested, just stop here. No ladish relevance in here. :-)
You can use Linux perfectly without any screenreader like Orca or Adriana
(Adriane?). Linux offers so many text-based applications, that a blind person
can easily stick to the commandline only.
For the commandline you only need a braille-display driver. There are two of
them: brltty (currently maintained and Debian standard, also needed for Orca)
and SBl (SuSE Blinux). Not sure if the latter is still maintained.
And yes, if you need to rely on Javascript and other interactive goodies of
the web, you would most certainly want a screenreader. The same goes for
having to read AND write WORD or OFFICE documents. Reading is no problem,
writing is the barrier. :-)
Still I'm not sure how much a screenreader would help with the big audio
apps. My knowledge is, that some of them bring their own widgets, which Orca
finds dificult, and they sometimes use other purely grapical means of control.
The latter is true for at least some aspects.
Sorry, iff I didn't tell you anything new or interesting. I just thought, it
might be the right time to brag a little. :-)
Warm regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
10:36 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Julien Claassen wrote:
OK, I decided to do a quickie on-list, because I think
it might be of
interest. This is about blind people and screenreaders. If your not
interested, just stop here. No ladish relevance in here. :-)
You can use Linux perfectly without any screenreader like Orca or
Adriana (Adriane?). Linux offers so many text-based applications, that
a blind person can easily stick to the commandline only.
For the commandline you only need a braille-display driver. There
are two of them: brltty (currently maintained and Debian standard,
also needed for Orca) and SBl (SuSE Blinux). Not sure if the latter is
still maintained.
And yes, if you need to rely on Javascript and other interactive
goodies of the web, you would most certainly want a screenreader. The
same goes for having to read AND write WORD or OFFICE documents.
Reading is no problem, writing is the barrier. :-)
Still I'm not sure how much a screenreader would help with the big
audio apps. My knowledge is, that some of them bring their own
widgets, which Orca finds dificult, and they sometimes use other
purely grapical means of control. The latter is true for at least some
aspects.
Sorry, iff I didn't tell you anything new or interesting. I just
thought, it might be the right time to brag a little. :-)
Warm regards
Julien
It's important :)
we're talking about audio and everybody able to see today, can become
blind tomorrow ;). Anyway applications should have comfortable features
for people who are able to see (I'm able to see and I like some
comfortable graphical issues ;)), but it shouldn't be forgotten that
seeing shouldn't be needed to make music ;) ... we're listening with our
ears and not our eyes.
Thanks for your advice :).
Ralf
8:04 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
You're welcome. :-) Where does all the smiling come from? :-) Or better: Where
do all the smilies come from? ;) Would you have another cann for me as well?
:-)
Friendly regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
9:53 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hello Nedko!
Now I've come up against a wall, which I don't want to climb.
It's all to do with GUI-toolkits and their relatives. Especially flowcanvas.
I dearly hope and plea for the feature, to optionalise the GUI-parts.
Flowcanvas seems to require something ese, which is tedious. Because now I
could go on installing ad nauseam, without getting anywhere in a short while.
Well you might say, that I'm a special case, being blind, having no graphic.
But I think this might hit other people as well. People with other
main-GUI-toolkits or other commandline friends, and there are some.
I'd be glad to know, if you're so far along on your way, that you seperated
the GUI parts from the real thing.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
10:03 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Julien Claassen wrote:
Hello Nedko!
Now I've come up against a wall, which I don't want to climb.
It's all to do with GUI-toolkits and their relatives. Especially flowcanvas.
I dearly hope and plea for the feature, to optionalise the GUI-parts.
Flowcanvas seems to require something ese, which is tedious. Because now I
could go on installing ad nauseam, without getting anywhere in a short while.
Well you might say, that I'm a special case, being blind, having no graphic.
But I think this might hit other people as well. People with other
main-GUI-toolkits or other commandline friends, and there are some.
I'd be glad to know, if you're so far along on your way, that you seperated
the GUI parts from the real thing.
Kindest regards
Julien
Hi Julian :)
I guess some GUI stuff is important for you too, because I guess Orca
needs some GNOME GUI stuff ;). Correct me if I'm mistaken ;). I guess
you're using Orca for braille all the time and sometimes for speech
output to?
Btw. if there are alternatives to Orca please inform me (maybe
off-list), because I sometimes meet some visual impaired people, not
very often, but some times.
Cheers,
Ralf
10:06 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> writes:
Hello Nedko!
Now I've come up against a wall, which I don't want to climb.
It's all to do with GUI-toolkits and their relatives. Especially
flowcanvas. I dearly hope and plea for the feature, to optionalise the
GUI-parts. Flowcanvas seems to require something ese, which is
tedious. Because now I could go on installing ad nauseam, without
getting anywhere in a short while.
Well you might say, that I'm a special case, being blind, having no
graphic. But I think this might hit other people as well. People with
other main-GUI-toolkits or other commandline friends, and there are
some.
I'd be glad to know, if you're so far along on your way, that you
seperated the GUI parts from the real thing.
Kindest regards
Julien
GUI (gladish) and the real thing (ladishd) are really separated. Later
today I'll try to modify the waf build script to support GUI-less
build. Here is a ticket for you: http://ladish.org/ticket/10
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
10:08 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Thans Nedko! This is really kind of you! I appreciate it higly, be sure of it!
Friendly regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
12:33 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> writes:
cool. nedko, not intending to rehash the dbus carnage of yore, but:
for a headless system without a user logged in via some graphical
desktop, what is needed to be able to run LADI?
i for one would be interested in having a rudimentary start script that
gets all the $FOOkits and dbus-$GIZMOs in place so that LADIsh can work.
even if few people will use it on headless systems, it would be very
instructive and show how different system services work together.
best,
jörn
Hello Nedko!
Now I've come up against a wall, which I don't want to climb.
It's all to do with GUI-toolkits and their relatives. Especially
flowcanvas. I dearly hope and plea for the feature, to optionalise the
GUI-parts. Flowcanvas seems to require something ese, which is
tedious. Because now I could go on installing ad nauseam, without
getting anywhere in a short while.
Well you might say, that I'm a special case, being blind, having no
graphic. But I think this might hit other people as well. People with
other main-GUI-toolkits or other commandline friends, and there are
some.
I'd be glad to know, if you're so far along on your way, that you
seperated the GUI parts from the real thing.
Kindest regards
Julien
GUI (gladish) and the real thing (ladishd) are really separated. Later
today I'll try to modify the waf build script to support GUI-less
build. Here is a ticket for you: http://ladish.org/ticket/10
12:49 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Jörn Nettingsmeier <nettings(a)folkwang-hochschule.de> writes:
cool. nedko, not intending to rehash the dbus carnage
of yore, but:
for a headless system without a user logged in via some graphical
desktop, what is needed to be able to run LADI?
The DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS must contain the address of the session bus
daemon. Check the man page of "dbus-launch". I launch the session bus
daemon from by ~/.xinitrc script (I don't use xdm/kdm/gdm) like this:
eval `dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session`
The man page has more documentation. Countrary to popular beleif, D-Bus
is not bound to desktop, in the GUI sense. It does not even make sense
for the system bus where HAL and other system stuff lurks.
i for one would be interested in having a rudimentary
start script that
gets all the $FOOkits and dbus-$GIZMOs in place so that LADIsh can work.
even if few people will use it on headless systems, it would be very
instructive and show how different system services work together.
You need to obtain the value for the session bus address on each tty
(local or ssh ones for headless operation). If you came with steps for
setting such envirnment, please share them - I want them on ladish.org
wiki.
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
5:56 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Nedko Arnaudov <nedko(a)arnaudov.name> writes:
Julien Claassen <julien(a)c-lab.de> writes:
The fix is in the git repository. To get the sources with git:
git clone -o nedko http://nedko.arnaudov.name/git/ladish.git
This will create ladish/ subdirectory where sources will be.
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
Hello Nedko!
Now I've come up against a wall, which I don't want to climb.
It's all to do with GUI-toolkits and their relatives. Especially
flowcanvas. I dearly hope and plea for the feature, to optionalise the
GUI-parts. Flowcanvas seems to require something ese, which is
tedious. Because now I could go on installing ad nauseam, without
getting anywhere in a short while.
Well you might say, that I'm a special case, being blind, having no
graphic. But I think this might hit other people as well. People with
other main-GUI-toolkits or other commandline friends, and there are
some.
I'd be glad to know, if you're so far along on your way, that you
seperated the GUI parts from the real thing.
Kindest regards
Julien
GUI (gladish) and the real thing (ladishd) are really separated. Later
today I'll try to modify the waf build script to support GUI-less
build. Here is a ticket for you: http://ladish.org/ticket/10 
6:49 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hi everyone,
i'm happy to learn about this new direction for lash. It looks really
promising.
The goal: "collaborate with x11 wm ..." reminded of an idea i had this
summer during the RMLL ("rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre") while
talking with musicians of the windows world.
They told me that they liked the gnu approach ("one application for one
task"), that it was great to be able to change a part of the workflow
independently. They also obvioulsy liked the idea of lash, being able to
save and recall a session.
But what they worried about (especially ableton live users) was the fact
that a great number of windows could become complicated to handle
compared to single window applications as live.
So the idea of remembering the windows positions is a good point but i
think another interesting point would be to have an application that
grabs all the music applications' windows and tiles them automatically
(of course with the possibilities of resizing and moving each tile)
So when you restore a session all the windows are accessible at once.
This would be a sort of musical window manager and would allow to
combine the advantage of a single window application with the advantages
of multiple interconnected applications.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me know ;)
Regards
Florent
7:21 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Florent Berthaut wrote:
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me
know ;)
As far as I know it doesn't exist. One advantage of Linux is, that most
desktop environments allow to use virtual desktops, but when making
music by using Linux, I very often don't turn off the computer, even if
I have a long rest, because I don't like to set up everything after the
rest.
I don't know your knowledge about Linux, so I might give a needless
hint. Take care to run some applications by disabling the usage of the
PID for JACK clients. Restoring a session by using helping applications
like jack_snapshot sometimes fail just because of this stupid issue.
8:36 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
Florent Berthaut wrote:
and you don't use two times the same setup ?
the point of lashid (previously lash) is actually that you don't have to
re-setup everything each time.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let
me know ;)
As far as I know it doesn't exist. One advantage of Linux is, that most
desktop environments allow to use virtual desktops, but when making
music by using Linux, I very often don't turn off the computer, even if
I have a long rest, because I don't like to set up everything after the
rest.
I don't know your knowledge about Linux, so I might give a needless
hint. Take care to run some applications by disabling the usage of the
PID for JACK clients. Restoring a session by using helping applications
like jack_snapshot sometimes fail just because of this stupid issue.
i have a workflow that i use all the time (i only make music on
gnu/linux) and i made a simple script to start the applications and i
record the connection in qjacktl (so everything is easily restarted) but
that's only because two of the applications i use (namely freewheeling
and pure data) don't support lash for now
in other situations i use lash, and i add support for it in all the
applications that i develop.
I think lashid is "the" way to go.
But i just think it could be interesting to have something to allow
better management of the musical applications windows.
For example, all the applications i use would startup and tile
automatically so i can simultaneously see and interact with to the
sampler, effects rack, live-looper, without having to select the windows
one by one, one passing over another and so on.
I guess i could used a tiling window manager, but i think it could be
interesting to have a more "music-oriented" system which could handle
the audio "and" windows sessions.
Florent
2 Sep
2 Sep
5:37 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Florent Berthaut wrote:
I guess i could used a tiling window manager, but i
think it could be
interesting to have a more "music-oriented" system which could handle
the audio "and" windows sessions.
I like the Ion WM, but I prefer a DE like e.g. KDE. KDE "really" is able
to remember which Window should have what size and in what position it
should open. Until today I only miss an application that is able to
suspend audio sessions to disk and to automatically start them after I
turn on the computer ;). Btw. I never could use Lash :(.
When making music most times I'm using Linux similar to other platforms.
I run jack by a command line and only use one application, Qtractor, as
sequencer and hard disk recorder and I include DSSIs and LADSPAs as
plugins, instead of using separate applications. So most times I'm
running the same set up ;).
I welcome ladish, but most of the times I would like to have a
Linuxsampler DSSI, a Hydrogen DSSI etc. ;).
Ralf
6:56 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> writes:
I welcome ladish, but most of the times I would like
to have a
Linuxsampler DSSI, a Hydrogen DSSI etc. ;).
You prefer DSSI over LV2? In recent years I've spent lot of time on both
JACK session handling problem and LV2. The two technologies have
something in common and have their pros and cons. I think that both are
needed. JACK plugins (apps in session handling environment) provide better
separatation and allow the developer to do more tricks, it is the more
flexible. LV2 plugins provide less overhead, better match the plugin
image in users`s heads, but are more restricte. The LV2 GUI problem is
especially bad, it slows LV2 adoption because hosts and plugins need to
use same GUI toolkit. LV2 External UI extension maybe will fix this,
time will tell. Maybe JACK plugins are more viable than LV2
plugins. After all we have more JACK mini-apps than complex
LV2+DSSI+LADSPA plugins.
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
3 Sep
3 Sep
8:31 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Nedko Arnaudov wrote:
Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
writes:
VST, VSTi and LV2 support would be fine, but more common seems to be a
good working DSSI and LADSPA support for Linux, than a good working VST,
VSTi support or any support for LV2, even if LV2 is native Linux.
I'm using Qtractor and I guess it comes without LV2 support:
"Qtractor 0.4.2.1376
Build target . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: release
JACK Audio Connection Kit support . . . . . . . .: yes
ALSA MIDI Sequencer support . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
General audio file support (libsndfile) . . . . .: yes
Ogg Vorbis audio file support (libvorbis) . . . .: yes
MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3 file support (libmad) . . . .: yes
Sample-rate conversion support (libsamplerate) . .: yes
Pitch-shifting support (librubberband) . . . . . .: yes
OSC service support (liblo) . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
IEEE 32bit float optimizations . . . . . . . . . .: yes
SSE optimization support (x86) . . . . . . . . . .: yes
LADSPA Plug-in support . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
DSSI Plug-in support . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
VST Plug-in support . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
XInitThreads() support (DANGEROUS) . . . . . . . .: no
Gradient eye-candy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: yes
Debugger stack-trace (gdb) . . . . . . . . . . . .: no
Install prefix . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: /usr/local"
I welcome ladish, but most of the times I would
like to have a
Linuxsampler DSSI, a Hydrogen DSSI etc. ;).
You prefer DSSI over LV2? In recent years I've spent lot of time on both
JACK session handling problem and LV2. The two technologies have
something in common and have their pros and cons. I think that both are
needed. JACK plugins (apps in session handling environment) provide better
separatation and allow the developer to do more tricks, it is the more
flexible. LV2 plugins provide less overhead, better match the plugin
image in users`s heads, but are more restricte. The LV2 GUI problem is
especially bad, it slows LV2 adoption because hosts and plugins need to
use same GUI toolkit. LV2 External UI extension maybe will fix this,
time will tell. Maybe JACK plugins are more viable than LV2
plugins. After all we have more JACK mini-apps than complex
LV2+DSSI+LADSPA plugins. 
1 Sep
1 Sep
8:51 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On 09/02/2009 06:48 AM, Florent Berthaut wrote:
Hi everyone,
i'm happy to learn about this new direction for lash. It looks really
promising.
The goal: "collaborate with x11 wm ..." reminded of an idea i had this
summer during the RMLL ("rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre") while
talking with musicians of the windows world.
They told me that they liked the gnu approach ("one application for one
task"), that it was great to be able to change a part of the workflow
independently. They also obvioulsy liked the idea of lash, being able to
save and recall a session.
But what they worried about (especially ableton live users) was the fact
that a great number of windows could become complicated to handle
compared to single window applications as live.
So the idea of remembering the windows positions is a good point but i
think another interesting point would be to have an application that
grabs all the music applications' windows and tiles them automatically
(of course with the possibilities of resizing and moving each tile)
So when you restore a session all the windows are accessible at once.
This would be a sort of musical window manager and would allow to
combine the advantage of a single window application with the advantages
of multiple interconnected applications.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me know ;)
I have had this idea for a while and your diea would compliment it very
well.
Basically the window manager should provide a hook for the app to have a
jack port on the title bar. This would then allow the window manager to
control teh layout and location of all apps with a jack port.
Alternatively it could also use ladish to provide the wrapper to all the
ladish/jack apps.
I know it is early days since Nedko just released his updates to the
system but I think we have an opportunity to provide this integration
from a window management perspective. In my mind it is a logical and
inevitable feature that will give desktop users a game like graphical
management option they can play with and get excited about.
Cheers.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Regards
Florent
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:54 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Patrick Shirkey a écrit :
On 09/02/2009 06:48 AM, Florent Berthaut wrote:
Yes that sounds great.
Hi everyone,
i'm happy to learn about this new direction for lash. It looks really
promising.
The goal: "collaborate with x11 wm ..." reminded of an idea i had this
summer during the RMLL ("rencontres mondiales du logiciel libre") while
talking with musicians of the windows world.
They told me that they liked the gnu approach ("one application for one
task"), that it was great to be able to change a part of the workflow
independently. They also obvioulsy liked the idea of lash, being able to
save and recall a session.
But what they worried about (especially ableton live users) was the fact
that a great number of windows could become complicated to handle
compared to single window applications as live.
So the idea of remembering the windows positions is a good point but i
think another interesting point would be to have an application that
grabs all the music applications' windows and tiles them automatically
(of course with the possibilities of resizing and moving each tile)
So when you restore a session all the windows are accessible at once.
This would be a sort of musical window manager and would allow to
combine the advantage of a single window application with the advantages
of multiple interconnected applications.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me know ;)
I have had this idea for a while and your diea would compliment it very
well.
Basically the window manager should provide a hook for the app to have a
jack port on the title bar. This would then allow the window manager to
control teh layout and location of all apps with a jack port.
Alternatively it could also use ladish to provide the wrapper to all the
ladish/jack apps.
I know it is early days since Nedko just released his updates to the
system but I think we have an opportunity to provide this integration
from a window management perspective. In my mind it is a logical and
inevitable feature that will give desktop users a game like graphical
management option they can play with and get excited about.
Exactly.
Regards
Florent
1 Sep
1 Sep
9:18 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hi,
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 22:48 +0200, Florent Berthaut wrote:
So the idea of remembering the windows positions is a
good point but i
think another interesting point would be to have an application that
grabs all the music applications' windows and tiles them automatically
(of course with the possibilities of resizing and moving each tile)
So when you restore a session all the windows are accessible at once.
This would be a sort of musical window manager and would allow to
combine the advantage of a single window application with the advantages
of multiple interconnected applications.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me know ;)
That kind of application already exists. It's called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
Yours sincerely,
Dennis Schulmeister
--
Dennis Schulmeister - Schifferstr. 1 - 76189 Karlsruhe - Germany
Tel: +49 721/5978883 - Mob: +49 152/01994400 - eMail: dennis(a)windows3.de
Now moved to the corridor: Hermes! (http://ncc-1701a.homelinux.net)
Besides that: http://www.denchris.de - http://www.motagator.net/bands/65
<GnuPG KeyIDs: B8382C97, 01AD62DE>
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:42 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Dennis Schulmeister a écrit :
Hi,
On Tue, 2009-09-01 at 22:48 +0200, Florent Berthaut wrote:
Of course one could use a tiling window manager ;) but maybe it is not
suitable to have to close your usual window manager and open another one
when you want to make music.
Having an application that manage at the same time the windows tiling
and the session, would be really more user-friendly .
Regards,
Florent
So the idea of remembering the windows positions
is a good point but i
think another interesting point would be to have an application that
grabs all the music applications' windows and tiles them automatically
(of course with the possibilities of resizing and moving each tile)
So when you restore a session all the windows are accessible at once.
This would be a sort of musical window manager and would allow to
combine the advantage of a single window application with the advantages
of multiple interconnected applications.
Perhaps it already exists, if it does please let me know ;)
That kind of application already exists. It's called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
Yours sincerely,
Dennis Schulmeister
9:29 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager with a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying partial
attention to this thread.)
Yours sincerely,
Dennis Schulmeister
all the best,
drew
12:37 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On Tuesday 01 September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis
Schulmeister wrote:
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in one
audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow.
Regards
Florent
That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager with
a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling
bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been
a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying
partial
attention to this thread.)
1:13 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On 09/03/2009 12:37 AM, florentberthaut(a)no-log.org wrote:
Can I confirm that an app that was able to tell the wm how to position
the session would also suffice which is what Nedkos goals are iiuc?
Cheers.
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On Tuesday 01
September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in one
audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow.
That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager
with
a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling
bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been
a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying
partial
attention to this thread.)
Regards
Florent
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
1:35 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 10:37:18 you wrote:
Right, and each app in this meta window could have its window positioned and
sized according to the user's wishes and remembered. Right?
On Tuesday 01
September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in one
audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow. That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager
with a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling
bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been
a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying
partial
attention to this thread.)
Regards
Florent
all the best,
drew
3 Sep
3 Sep
8:38 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
drew Roberts wrote:
--
Secret of Tux:
http://images.wallaceandgromit.com/user_uploads/forum_thumbnails/5/75/355.j…
"Gromit bit me" says HMV dog:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_03/GomitHMVPA_468x319.jpg
On Wednesday 02 September 2009 10:37:18 you wrote:
Right, and each app in this meta window could have its window positioned and
sized according to the user's wishes and remembered. Right?
This can be done by KDE!
Anyway you can't restore an audio session ;), but you can tell each
individual window what it has to do after you open it, IIRC excepted of
the desktop, everything can be remembered, if you set it to remember
what you want a window to remember.
On
Tuesday 01 September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in one
audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow.
That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager
with a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling
bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been
a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying
partial
attention to this thread.)
Regards
Florent
all the best,
drew
_______________________________________________
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Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
2 Sep
2 Sep
3:10 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
If I were using KDE and I had hardware that supports compositing I would
limit my audio software to a single virtual desktop and use the "present
windows" desktop effect for the current desktop to be able to see all my
windows at once.
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:37 AM, <florentberthaut(a)no-log.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 01
September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
with
That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling window
manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never tried it for
audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window manager a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio apps. Or
perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside of the tiling
bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It has been
a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from paying
partial
attention to this thread.)
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in one
audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow.
Regards
Florent
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
3 Sep
3 Sep
8:41 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Danni Coy wrote:
If I were using KDE and I had hardware that supports
compositing I
would limit my audio software to a single virtual desktop and use the
"present windows" desktop effect for the current desktop to be able to
see all my windows at once.
You would break stability of your real-time kernel by using a
proprietary 3D driver? I guess such a driver is needed and I guess
real-time kernels sometimes aren't fine with those drivers.
2 Sep
2 Sep
4:51 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:37:18 +0200 (CEST)
florentberthaut(a)no-log.org wrote:
I'm using a WM (called awesome) that can do tiling for everyday tasks as
well as audio. Since I have a rather small screen I use it mostly to get
every app fullscreen. When trying to use it for audio I ran in some
trouble. Applications like ardour require a lot of screen estate, on my
screen it hardly fits on the screen. Many other apps have a similar
minimum size that is simply not handled gracefully, at least by this WM.
Another problem is with applications that don't resize at all or that
apparently can't be handled in tiling mode. One such example is jkmeter.
So from my experience with awesome I'd say that it's theoretically a
nice idea but doesn't quite work that way. When you look at the
screenshots at tiling WM homepages you see mostly terminals, probably
for a reason. Maybe other WMs work better, but from my experience I'd
say that a WM that remembers window positions or where you could
specify them would probably work better, but I still have to explore
if that's possible with my WM.
Regards,
Philipp
On Tuesday 01
September 2009 19:18:45 Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
No it's exactly what i meant ;)
This "tiling window manager" application would handle only the audio
applications (or the one you want it to handle) and could be started
within any DE . The goal is to combine the advantages of the "all-in
one audio app" and of a multiple applications workflow.
Regards
Florent That kind of application already exists. It's
called a tiling
window manager. ;) DWM is one I sometimes use although I never
tried it for audio work.
I think what is being asked for is more like a regular window
manager with a
tiling type window manager inside of it that handles the audio
apps. Or perhaps all apps you assign to it. The rest exist outside
of the tiling bit.
They may want more flexibility inside the tiling part though. It
has been a
while since I fired up a tiling manager and so don't recall details
atm.
(I could be completely off on this read, but is is my take from
paying partial
attention to this thread.) 
5:07 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
2009/9/3 <hollunder(a)gmx.at>
I'm using a WM (called awesome) that can do tiling
for everyday tasks as
well as audio. Since I have a rather small screen I use it mostly to get
every app fullscreen. When trying to use it for audio I ran in some
trouble. Applications like ardour require a lot of screen estate, on my
screen it hardly fits on the screen. Many other apps have a similar
minimum size that is simply not handled gracefully, at least by this WM.
Another problem is with applications that don't resize at all or that
apparently can't be handled in tiling mode. One such example is jkmeter.
So from my experience with awesome I'd say that it's theoretically a
nice idea but doesn't quite work that way. When you look at the
screenshots at tiling WM homepages you see mostly terminals, probably
for a reason. Maybe other WMs work better, but from my experience I'd
say that a WM that remembers window positions or where you could
specify them would probably work better, but I still have to explore
if that's possible with my WM.
Yes, exactly my thoughts. Tiling WM is simply not a solution as some apps,
Ardour primarily, actually _need_ all the space it can get. Not all of us
have > 19" or dual monitors even when it's the age of HD and Blue Ray. In
fact, as things go mobile and portable more, the less screen space is
favoured.
KDE has the potential to provide this 100%, but it needs to smoothen up its
cosmetics against usability since wihout compositing (which is a major
penalty for Intel graphics) it looks worse than my LXDE environment.
11:27 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
If I'm understanding the latter half of this thread correctly it is exactly
what I've been wanting in a window manager for a gnu/linux based daw for a
long time - a visual patching based desktop and window manager.
Zoom out and you get a patchage like overview of all windows between which
you can make connections. You can then zoom into each app object to
whichever degree you wish using some combination of modifier key and mouse
wheel over the object, make application adjustments and then zoom back out
to the overall canvas. I think we inherited the desktop approach from
graphical design, where the notion of bounded workspaces makes more sense.
I'd rather my desktop were an unbounded extended "canvas" of
inter-patchable
windows with something like LADIsh and JACK underpinning session
interconnection and management.
But who has the resources to pull something like that off?
11:33 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On 09/03/2009 11:27 AM, michael noble wrote:
If I'm understanding the latter half of this
thread correctly it is
exactly what I've been wanting in a window manager for a gnu/linux
based daw for a long time - a visual patching based desktop and window
manager.
Zoom out and you get a patchage like overview of all windows between
which you can make connections. You can then zoom into each app object
to whichever degree you wish using some combination of modifier key
and mouse wheel over the object, make application adjustments and then
zoom back out to the overall canvas. I think we inherited the desktop
approach from graphical design, where the notion of bounded workspaces
makes more sense. I'd rather my desktop were an unbounded extended
"canvas" of inter-patchable windows with something like LADIsh and
JACK underpinning session interconnection and management.
But who has the resources to pull something like that off?
This zoom in/out functionality already exists in KDE and is also a part
of the apple desktop.
We don't currently have a wm or desktop environemtn that communicates
with jack.
I'm am very interested in seeing this happen and I think it can be tied
into the lash/ladish system too.
Cheers
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
3 Sep
3 Sep
1:02 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
On Thu, 2009-09-03 at 03:07 +0800, Ray Rashif wrote:
Yes, exactly my thoughts. Tiling WM is simply not a
solution as some
apps, Ardour primarily, actually _need_ all the space it can get. Not
all of us have > 19" or dual monitors even when it's the age of HD and
Blue Ray. In fact, as things go mobile and portable more, the less
screen space is favoured.
Applications that need a lot of space should provide scrollbars. And
that goes for windows as well as for dialogs. It's a real PITA that many
applications don't have good scrolling.
Yours sincerely,
Dennis Schulmeister
--
Dennis Schulmeister - Schifferstr. 1 - 76189 Karlsruhe - Germany
Tel: +49 721/5978883 - Mob: +49 152/01994400 - eMail: dennis(a)windows3.de
Now moved to the corridor: Hermes! (http://ncc-1701a.homelinux.net)
Besides that: http://www.denchris.de - http://www.motagator.net/bands/65
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5:57 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Dennis Schulmeister wrote:
Applications that need a lot of space should provide
scrollbars. And
that goes for windows as well as for dialogs. It's a real PITA that many
applications don't have good scrolling.
Full ACK :). And sometimes they do have scrollbars, but they suppress
resizing of the window, while the windows by default is very small for
"normal" large fonts and much to small for people who need "very"
large
fonts.
8:45 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
hollunder(a)gmx.at wrote:
I'm using a WM (called awesome) that can do tiling
for everyday tasks as
well as audio. Since I have a rather small screen I use it mostly to get
every app fullscreen. When trying to use it for audio I ran in some
trouble. Applications like ardour require a lot of screen estate, on my
screen it hardly fits on the screen. Many other apps have a similar
minimum size that is simply not handled gracefully, at least by this WM.
Another problem is with applications that don't resize at all or that
apparently can't be handled in tiling mode. One such example is jkmeter.
So from my experience with awesome I'd say that it's theoretically a
nice idea but doesn't quite work that way. When you look at the
screenshots at tiling WM homepages you see mostly terminals, probably
for a reason. Maybe other WMs work better, but from my experience I'd
say that a WM that remembers window positions or where you could
specify them would probably work better, but I still have to explore
if that's possible with my WM.
Regards,
Philipp
When running Ion2 some years ago, there only was one application that
was hiding a window, IIRC it wasn't an audio application, all other
applications were fine at maximal 1024x768 or maybe it was just 800x600.
11:33 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Hello all,
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:45 AM, Ralf Mardorf<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
hollunder(a)gmx.at wrote:
> I'm using a WM (called awesome) that can do tiling for everyday tasks as
> well as audio. Since I have a rather small screen I use it mostly to get
> every app fullscreen. When trying to use it for audio I ran in some
> trouble. Applications like ardour require a lot of screen estate, on my
> screen it hardly fits on the screen. Many other apps have a similar
> minimum size that is simply not handled gracefully, at least by this WM.
> Another problem is with applications that don't resize at all or that
> apparently can't be handled in tiling mode. One such example is jkmeter.
>
> So from my experience with awesome I'd say that it's theoretically a
> nice idea but doesn't quite work that way. When you look at the
> screenshots at tiling WM homepages you see mostly terminals, probably
> for a reason. Maybe other WMs work better, but from my experience I'd
> say that a WM that remembers window positions or where you could
> specify them would probably work better, but I still have to explore
> if that's possible with my WM.
Interesting discussion... I had often thought that a tiling window
manager would be a good match for an audio environment, but you have
brought up some good points. I plan on trying Awesome with the
machine I'm building (actually Awesome and Arch Linux are already
installed, but the mobo is currently back at Newegg :/ ) to see how it
handles a "portable studio" type of setup. I think the trick will be
carefully customizing the WM's configuration so that it understands
how each of my apps interact with the desktop... for example, Ardour
and Ardour's mixer should probably each have their own dedicated
full-screen desktop tag, while "little" apps like QJackCtl and various
synth/FX windows should be grouped together on one desktop and have a
fixed size or even float (which many tiling WMs can do on a per-window
basis I think). Once a sensible configuration is found, I'm hoping
that the WM will stay out of the way and boost productivity. The
downside is that each time I add a new application to the inventory,
I'll have to tweak Awesome's configuration a bit... but perhaps over
time (and with a little community sharing) the configuration will grow
to accommodate the majority of audio apps out there. In the end it
might not work out, but I'm willing to give it a try based on what I
think (or hope) is possible.
How this applies to LADISH: I'm not sure. ;)
------------------
sean corbett
blacktownsound.com
4 Sep
4 Sep
5:08 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Sorry, had to reply somewhere, and I don't know if devilspie has already
been mentioned.
Devilspie is a window-matching program. Writing the scripts/config to get
it to match a particular window is not too difficult (it uses
s-expressions), so you can get a specific window to always appear on a
particular workspace with the exact geom/pos you wish for.
Apologies also for suggesting something else without having tried out
ladish yet, but if it were to be a little like qjackctl, in having
startup/shutdown scripts the user could write, then it would not be too
difficult to have it remember/restore window positions. It might be
possible that the user would not have to even write these
scripts/configs?
I've been trying a few different window managers lately, and using dwm
(a tiling wm) just doesn't seem the best option for audio apps (a lack
of recent libs disallowed me to build awesome). The other extreme, e17,
is just ummm, no.
James.
5 Sep
5 Sep
8:47 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
How could I forget - e17 actually has _a lot_ of potential. More than KDE as
a whole.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/E17_bw_screenshot.png
But that's all it has - potential.
9:08 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ray Rashif wrote:
How could I forget - e17 actually has _a lot_ of
potential. More than
KDE as a whole.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/E17_bw_screenshot.png
But that's all it has - potential.
I'm an e17 and KDE user and IMHO you are wrong, just because KDE is
stable and e17 very, very often is a PITA. I might be wrong, but I guess
KDE is able to do nearly everything e17 could do + a little bit more.
The only reason not to use KDE3 or KDE4 is the usage of resources by
this DE. In addition I would suggest to use KDE with KWin and not a WM
that needs proprietary graphics drivers. I'm only referring to the so
called "pro-audio" usage.
Ralf
9:20 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
2009/9/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
Ray Rashif wrote:
I don't know what you're getting at, but I hope you understand the meaning
of "potential". It's evident that e17 has got it right especially when its
fancy graphical effects works smoothly on an AMD K6. That's a start, because
in that way we know nothing is choking (especially in KWin where there are
random artifacts if compositing is disabled). What I'm saying is that it
_can_ be comparable to KDE's usability, sometime in the future when it's
stable.
For now I have to keep LXDE as a secondary environment.
Anyway what WM needs proprietary graphics drivers?
How could I forget - e17 actually has _a lot_ of
potential. More than KDE
as a whole.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/E17_bw_screenshot.png
But that's all it has - potential.
I'm an e17 and KDE user and IMHO you are wrong, just because KDE is stable
and e17 very, very often is a PITA. I might be wrong, but I guess KDE is
able to do nearly everything e17 could do + a little bit more. The only
reason not to use KDE3 or KDE4 is the usage of resources by this DE. In
addition I would suggest to use KDE with KWin and not a WM that needs
proprietary graphics drivers. I'm only referring to the so called
"pro-audio" usage.
Ralf
9:29 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ray Rashif wrote:
2009/9/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net
<mailto:ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>>
Ray Rashif wrote:
How could I forget - e17 actually has _a lot_ of potential.
More than KDE as a whole.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/E17_bw_screenshot.png
But that's all it has - potential.
I'm an e17 and KDE user and IMHO you are wrong, just because KDE
is stable and e17 very, very often is a PITA. I might be wrong,
but I guess KDE is able to do nearly everything e17 could do + a
little bit more. The only reason not to use KDE3 or KDE4 is the
usage of resources by this DE. In addition I would suggest to use
KDE with KWin and not a WM that needs proprietary graphics
drivers. I'm only referring to the so called "pro-audio" usage.
Ralf
I don't know what you're getting at, but I hope you understand the
meaning of "potential". It's evident that e17 has got it right
especially when its fancy graphical effects works smoothly on an AMD
K6. That's a start, because in that way we know nothing is choking
(especially in KWin where there are random artifacts if compositing is
disabled). What I'm saying is that it _can_ be comparable to KDE's
usability, sometime in the future when it's stable.
For now I have to keep LXDE as a secondary environment.
Anyway what WM needs proprietary graphics drivers?
E17 didn't change a lot since it was the default for the JAD installing
media some years ago, KDE did change a lot. Yes e17 has got potential,
that's why I'm using it again, but it's very experimental. I don't like
crashs when I try to chose fonts, I like to chose fonts etc., something
that isn't fine for e17.
All those "show my desktops as a cube and add rain to my windows" and
make all windows transparent needs proprietary drivers, okay, KWin is
able to do transparency too, but it still isn't a "show my desktops as a
cube and add rain to my windows" DE.
Just my 2 cents.
Ralf
12:45 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
2009/9/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
E17 didn't change a lot since it was the default for the JAD installing
media some years ago, KDE did change a lot. Yes e17 has got potential,
that's why I'm using it again, but it's very experimental. I don't like
crashs when I try to chose fonts, I like to chose fonts etc., something that
isn't fine for e17.
All those "show my desktops as a cube and add rain to my windows" and make
all windows transparent needs proprietary drivers, okay, KWin is able to do
transparency too, but it still isn't a "show my desktops as a cube and add
rain to my windows" DE.
Just my 2 cents.
Ralf
That's right - the word is experimental. If and when it gets out of that
phase, which judging from over 8 years (was the e in JAD e16 or 17?) of
development so far doesn't look near, it will be a worthy option.
But saying all that, the irony is that I just installed and updated myself
again to the latest intel driver (was previously on a downgraded version due
to slow 3D performance), set up KMS, and my KDE 4.3 is looking as good as it
never did before. Simply amazing, and surprising because I thought it'd take
at least until 2010 to sort that one out.
The first thing to try would be getting messages across the windows, and use
double-clicks to select one. Since KWin already has the drawing thing, it's
possible to interactively render a cable a la QJackCtl. So this is
inter-application communication, which I'm not sure is trivial.
Then again, why go through so much work for the same function? (signal
routing; already accomodated for by QJackCtl) It'd just be another step
towards fanciness, not sure how effective it'd really be. Once there are too
many channels/ports, it'll get to a point where it'll be cumbersome.
20 Sep
20 Sep
2:47 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Ray Rashif wrote:
2009/9/5 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net
<mailto:ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>>
E17 didn't change a lot since it was the default for the JAD
installing media some years ago, KDE did change a lot. Yes e17 has
got potential, that's why I'm using it again, but it's very
experimental. I don't like crashs when I try to chose fonts, I
like to chose fonts etc., something that isn't fine for e17.
All those "show my desktops as a cube and add rain to my windows"
and make all windows transparent needs proprietary drivers, okay,
KWin is able to do transparency too, but it still isn't a "show my
desktops as a cube and add rain to my windows" DE.
Just my 2 cents.
Ralf
That's right - the word is experimental. If and when it gets out of
that phase, which judging from over 8 years (was the e in JAD e16 or
17?) of development so far doesn't look near, it will be a worthy option.
Sorry for my late reply, I'm still short in time :S. It was called e17.
But saying all that, the irony is that I just
installed and updated
myself again to the latest intel driver (was previously on a
downgraded version due to slow 3D performance), set up KMS, and my KDE
4.3 is looking as good as it never did before. Simply amazing, and
surprising because I thought it'd take at least until 2010 to sort
that one out.
The first thing to try would be getting messages across the windows,
and use double-clicks to select one. Since KWin already has the
drawing thing, it's possible to interactively render a cable a la
QJackCtl. So this is inter-application communication, which I'm not
sure is trivial.
Then again, why go through so much work for the same function? (signal
routing; already accomodated for by QJackCtl) It'd just be another
step towards fanciness, not sure how effective it'd really be. Once
there are too many channels/ports, it'll get to a point where it'll be
cumbersome.
--
Secret of Tux:
http://images.wallaceandgromit.com/user_uploads/forum_thumbnails/5/75/355.j…
"Gromit bit me" says HMV dog:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_03/GomitHMVPA_468x319.jpg
5 Sep
5 Sep
8:57 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
james morris wrote:
[snip] The other extreme, e17, is just ummm, no.
Full ACK.
I like e17, but it was much too buggy some years ago and even today it's
not a DE I would recommend for a stable DAW. E17 is nice, but not a DE
for carefree audio productions and it seems that the coders won't like
to understand what is needed for real-time audio usage. Just my
experiences. Use e17, but don't use e17 for audio production.
9:43 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
"james morris" <james(a)jwm-art.net> writes:
Apologies also for suggesting something else without
having tried out
ladish yet, but if it were to be a little like qjackctl, in having
startup/shutdown scripts the user could write, then it would not be too
difficult to have it remember/restore window positions. It might be
possible that the user would not have to even write these
scripts/configs?
Adding hook scripts sounds like good idea. The problem is when they are
executed. ladish model is more complex and there is no simple
startup/shutdown. There is startup of studio and load of a project in a
room. Both are sequences of operations. So there have to be pre and post
hooks. Same applies for shutdown hooks. And maybe per-app hooks will be
useful too..
--
Nedko Arnaudov <GnuPG KeyID: DE1716B0>
1 Sep
1 Sep
7:58 p.m.
New subject: [LAU] [ANN] LADI Session Handler - Preview 1
Thanks Nedko. That's aweful. I'll get it and see, where I get.
Kindest regards
Julien
--------
Music was my first love and it will be my last (John Miles)
======== FIND MY WEB-PROJECT AT: ========
http://ltsb.sourceforge.net
the Linux TextBased Studio guide
======= AND MY PERSONAL PAGES AT: =======
http://www.juliencoder.de
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linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
54 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Danni Coy -
Dennis Schulmeister -
drew Roberts -
Florent Berthaut -
florentberthaut＠no-log.org
-
hollunder＠gmx.at -
james morris -
Julien Claassen -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
michael noble -
Nedko Arnaudov -
Patrick Shirkey -
Ralf Mardorf -
Ray Rashif -
Sean Corbett